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P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 14:56
Please see hasta's final comment and rules on the "Unhappiness within the Club"thread.

If anybody wants to continue the debate, or contribute factual information/observations they have heard on this topic -please do so here- within reasonable limits of online discourse.

PG



P G Tips



Paul Grant: my adopted Player, 2017-18.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 16:20
I guess I'm most interested in the question : how much input does TB have as DoR? I think most agree that he should be mainly in charge of retention, succession and recruitment. That's the DoR's job after all.

I struggle to believe he has no say, and I think malco said on the other thread that it was just the case that he had little influence on a few of the recent (to me quite speculative) signings.

I think that worries me. Fair enough if the money men say "no that's too much or we think you're ignoring inside centre you have to rethink". But for them to be bringing in players outside of TBs plan just isn't going to work. I also get the feeling that this isn't something new and it's affected both Gary and Mike as well.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 16:34
But is Todd DoR or Head coach at the moment? Until what used to be the HC's role is filled its a bit difficult to work out what is going on and what Todd's role is. What is clear though is that he needs control of signings. You would also have thought that he would have been consulted on the defence coach appointment? (If Malco's post is accurate of course).

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 16:48
For me, and I've seen nothing on this either way, TB is still DoR. He has been asked to fill in as HC as well for now and its possible that all this is just "taking the load off", but I'm not convinced that is required in the short term.

I personally feel that the DoR should appoint everyone rugby from himself down, otherwise, you're not going to get a happy coaching team. Something like Ford usurping Gold seems less likely to happen in that case (did Gold ask for Ford? It seems unlikely given what happened). But that's just my opinion.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 16:55
Probably right Dan and agree strongly on appointments, but why no head coach then? Any appointment now means the new HC can't have his own choice of defence coach for starters. Odd in my view.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 17:02
Agree, though I'm happy to put the lack of HC down to "We want the right HC, not a HC right now".

That said, I can't shake the feeling that TB is only here for a little while longer, a season and a half, in which case we could be using this period to bed in a new DoR, perhaps helping out in a HC type role. Maybe we will when we find him.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 17:17
Do take exception to criticism of Tarquin & “the money men” when there is no real evidence to support that view. The club has to be run prudently & difficult decisions have to be made. I don’t believe Todd is not involved in choosing players & nothing that has been said confirms that.

 
southgate
southgate (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 17:25
My morale in the club is rock bottom I'm fed up with the club lurching from one crisis to another.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 17:32
"Do take exception to criticism of Tarquin & “the money men” when there is no real evidence to support that view."

I don't think anything has been said he against Tarquin. My reference to the money men was to say that TB should have a idea of the sort of squad he wants, but "the money men" would be quite right to tell him that it is too ambitious. What they shouldn't be doing is saying "therefore you should bring in..." and it seems we have with the 3 signings malco mentions.

I appreciate that it is all speculation and hearsay, I don't think Malco's post was much more than that, but that's all we're likely to have to go off. If you don't feel you can talk about it based on what's been said, that's fine, but I don't really see any problem with others discussing it, particularly if they accept it is little more than gossip.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 17:39
Look Tarquin is not the cause of all Baths problems, however it is clear there are issues between the playing management and the club management.

TB is our DoR, clearly he and his fellow coaches should have at least an equal say in the future staff coming into the club, after all they take the flack when it all goes wrong.

The problem this season is that TB made it clear there were deficiencies in the squad in pre-season and the expected signings did not materialize, you cannot plan for the injuries we have suffered, however if your squad is small and quite frankly some of the squad players are not good enough at this level.

The real problem has been that throughout the season TB has referred to wanting to keep players Banners/BT etc and they have all gone. Bearing in mind that the squad was deemed short in key positions by many prior to the season kicking off we have done nothing to rectify the issue and if anything we are weaker. TB unfortunately does look tired and certainly appears to have lost that bounce and enthusiasm.

It is well documented how much the players hold TB in hi esteem, so the problem is not there.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 17:51
I have never worked in sport but I imagine it must be a different culture to a normal business where reporting lines and authority are clearer.

There must be times where the 'talent' whether players or coaches seems more important to a club than a person in a staff position whatever their job title.

Not saying this is an issue at Bath, just that what is best for a club or fairer or who really makes the place tick is harder to identify than in an office.

Also how many employees are there? It is still relatively small in terms of full time staff and any personality clashes get blown up in comparison to a large company.

It is not long ago that Gloucester fans were asking the same questions as to why they were performing as we are now, sum of the parts, inconsistent etc.

If there is a misplaced sense of authority then that seems a relatively easy fix to me, just needs to be recognised, discussed, agreed. The fundamental issues of Bruce's support, the long term future and the ability to fund up to the cap mean we should always be in the hunt for success.

Also, don't forget what a high pressure business pro sport is. There is a lot of expectation which can manifest itself in negative ways.

We don't even know if this is an issue or not. As stated elsewhere would we be discussing this if we had won 6 on the trot?

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 18:20
It has been a topsy turvy season to date. There is huge frustration from supporters, players and the coaches from all the comments put out from time to time.

I hope that TB does not hold the purse strings because he has much more important matters to address such as finding a winning and consistency formula. Yes he must be involved in who is being recruited but the negotiations quite rightly should be conducted by others to get the players or coaches he needs.

As I stated on the other thread losing some long term servants has probably fanned the flames of this rumour.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 18:41
This thread and the other one caused me to reflect on what kind of culture/team result one wants.

On one side we have the Exeter Model which has undoubtedly been hugely successful for them.......but not so for say Worcester/Sale, Newcastle might be progressing down the same slow, but steady path to improvement.

On the other side you have the Toulon team of say five years ago with bought in World talent gelling together to produce a very successful result for a period. However this did not work for Saracens first time round and has only worked periodically for Saints, Wasps and indeed Bath.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
25 January, 2018 19:45
I would prefer the Exeter model. For me, rugby has always been about club ethos and identity first with success as a product of that. I think we lost our identity at the dawning of professionalism and, IMHO, we've never really got it back. We weren't nice, we weren't welcoming and we cheated like hell. I remember Paul Ackford saying that Bath was a genuinely unpleasant place to come and play rugby. There are worse starting points.

I like Todd. I think he could be our Rob Baxter. But if he is going to be, he has to be given time and the license to fail. I'd rather lose with a clear vision of the future than win with illusions.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 01:06
JoeF
Gosh.
A light in the darkness.

PECK

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 07:59
JoeF nail hit on head! Excellent post all of which I agree with having endured everything from a supporter point of view in all that time.

Personally I hope Todd becomes our Mr Baxter and is left alone long enough to achieve it. Somehow with our track record, I regret to say I doubt that will happen! Hope I am wrong!!!!

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 09:17
Crisis, what crisis ? I suspect this we're discussing this tittle tattle from the strangely angry Malco because (i) we have bog all chance of winning anything and (ii) we have bog all chance of getting relegated. Basically bored mid table muttering of mildly malcontent men (and women).

Priority is to get a new Head Coach in place, share some exciting news about new recruits, and send Malco some Camomile tea.

Also, I think we might play a game of rugby tomorrow if anyone's interested.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 09:28
What I do not understand on this forum is why there is so much hatred towards fellow posters. Prior to posting on here I used to read the comments and found Malco's comments both interesting and usually accurate, I do not understand why posters have to attack fellow posters, this forum is subjective and personal opinion so how can you be criticized for your own personal opinion??

For instance Malco made a comment on social media stating what many on here slready know, I am good friends with a parent of a current player and I have heard much of what Malco is saying unfortunately our club has not handled the professional era at all well, we currently have a wealthy benefactor who is not just going to permanently pour money into a bottomless pit. The problem is we have had previous management who tried to buy a title - that failed.

We now have a proper rugby union man who has reached the pinicle of our game by being the captain of the greatest side on earth - more so a man who has been brought up in the bedrock of rugby - A man that I have been told is loved by the players and the other coaches and yet we are trying our hardest to self destruct once again - like Malco I heard that TM may have stayed but was fed up with the interference from the non playing management. Something that NZ are not used to.

What I cannot understand is the players we have. TF and perhaps FL are the only world class players we have - so the question is with our small squad and lack of world stars coupled with our small academy where is the salary cap - surely this points to hugely over inflated wages being paid to players who are clearly not in that bracket. Even with the loss of Banners/BT & NA we are still being told we are close to the salary cap. Just do not get it!! The notion that one man is responsible is ridiculous however as I have said I am aware that Tarquin maybe does not spark enthusiasm within the playing side of the club and he is in charge of the financial side of recruiting and contracts so the "buck" stops with him, it is really unfortunate and perhaps it may prove a bridge too far that TB was not consulted in the latest signings and contracts. Time will tell.

We are without doubt a club which is still struggling with our identity - historically we have always been a team which were intimidating and strong up front who certainly had the grunt, this allowed our back line to play. The Rec has not been the intimidating arena it used to be for probably 17-18 years. Jack Rowell built his team up over a number of years without interference we need to afford TB the same to have a hope.

We as supporters just need to accept we all have differing opinions that's life, we must learn not to be so critical of each other because at the heart of it all we all share the same passion in our great club.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/01/2018 09:36 by Ali1969.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 09:38
OK all. Last time - no more discussion of malco (or other posters). This is not the place for it. Please keep this on topic.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 10:00
Quote:
Hasta
OK all. Last time - no more discussion of malco (or other posters). This is not the place for it. Please keep this on topic.

Imagine you're dealing with a group of unruly children Hasta. You've just told them (us) 'I'm going out for a while children and while I'm out you absolutely must not play with my expensive Hifi'.

Anyway, about Mal......

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 10:05
It’s incredible. The last thread was closed down because of personalising matters & others are dragging it all up again. Hopefully we can now continue the discussion, if there is any more to be said, without referring to individuals or the conduct of posters.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 10:17
In the past we complained that Brownsword wasn't a rugby man and took no interest in the club, now we have a rugby man in charge he is interfering too much. One day we may achieve the middle ground, but until we win something there will always be the unrest rumour.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 10:37
Wonder how many private messages are flying back and forth? Many of us don't want to write on a public forum because there are those who will always want to pour oil on troubled waters or stick their heads in the sand or play devils advocate.

All I know is that I have no interest whatsoever in attending the match tomorrow, which surprised me. My disillusion started last season with the re-allocation of my seat which, despite repeated assurances that it would make no difference, resulted in separation from not only very longstanding neighbours, but the pitch, the clubhouse and the changed close proximity of corporates (nothing wrong with them as such except that they do arrive a bit tiddly, sway back and forth and become more so. Friday nights do not appeal and neither to endless electronic exhortations to buy tickets, etc. and idiotic club postings (mostly) on fb. The latest being one to guess who might be in the team tomorrow! Perleese! Never mind, the club mgt will claim its a sellout so who cares.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 10:53
As squad size has come up again... What small squad? It's not 2014/2015 we've hired 11 more full-time players since then.


The entire point of a DoR as opposed to a Head Coach os to take managerial responsibility for playing matters - providing oversight of all aspects, from academy, through medical, Strength and Conditioning, and recruitment (with an input on contract negotiations, but probably not overseeight).
If Todd isn't doing this, then he's not a DoR, but "just" a head coach; and if he were brought in to be a head coach alongside Matson being another head coach, then whoever made that decision needs to be fired.
I strongly suspect that this simply isn't the case (not that I doubt Malco has heard this, but I doubt that the information is accurate). It may be that he's removed himself entirely from contract negotiations currently given my point below, and the risk of toxicity with individual players.



As for players being dissatisfied... We play in a salary capped league.
2 years ago we were employing 34 players within a £6.5M cap => average wage of £203k + 2 Marquees
At the beginning of thos season, we were employing 45* players within a £7M cap => average wage of £162k + 2 Marquees

So in an environment where salaries are reducing 20% across the board - how happy do we expect everyone to be? Do we really expect everyone to stay? To be happy with their offer? To be happy about how hard the club negotiate?
The figures above are, under the assumption that we spent up to (but not over) the cap both this year, and in 2015/16. Of course, there are also persistent rumours/accusations from elsewhere that we spent more in 2015-16 and/or that we have had our cap reduced in 2016-20 as punishment for the previous overspend. I happen not to believe those rumours, hence I've assumed that we've spent up to the cap.



* Not including the likes of GMercer, Andrews, Noguero-Paz, Vuna here for <1/2 the season; also discounting the 2 Max.s signed from Leeds on the assumption that they've got academy contracts currently.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 11:01
Quote:
As for players being dissatisfied... We play in a salary capped league.
2 years ago we were employing 34 players within a £6.5M cap => average wage of £203k + 2 Marquees
At the beginning of thos season, we were employing 45* players within a £7M cap => average wage of £162k + 2 Marquees

The maths is pretty clear on this - nicely done. Would be interested in the curves on this too - I suspect the mean substantially outstrips the median. Basically we're suffering a major hangover from the failings of Mike Ford's approach. And it'll probably take until 2019/2020 until the squad is appropriately rebuilt.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 12:13
Those two posts above are precisely what I meant.

Every Prem club has the challenge of managing their players' budget.

Club morale, whichever grouping it is, e.g. supporters, paid staff, players, coaches, player support staff etc. = isn't about how much money is or isn't being spent, or how many tickets are being sold fgs.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 12:21
I know I have gone on about this in the past, but I don't like the scapegoating of Mike Ford. Accepting his failings, I don't think you can call the small squad "the Mike Ford approach (TM)" we've had a small squad from pretty much as long as I can remember. I can recall comments about it going back, at least, as far as Lippy, Danny and Borthwick. I know its natural to blame the last guy, particularly when he has his faults, but we're brushing things under the carpet to attribute things to him unfairly. At the end of the day, we still have a unhappy squad that is less than the sum of its parts.

I also don't think the approach is THAT bad. Which's maths shows the problem very clearly. Bigger squad implies a lot less money per player leading to less quality and unhappy players (in the transition at least). Doing that to bring in players like Allinson that either are hardly on the pitch or you wish they weren't when they are just doesn't seem worthwhile. I think the same effect could be achieved by investing in our academy.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 12:24


Quote:
hasta
Quote:
As for players being dissatisfied... We play in a salary capped league.
2 years ago we were employing 34 players within a £6.5M cap => average wage of £203k + 2 Marquees
At the beginning of thos season, we were employing 45* players within a £7M cap => average wage of £162k + 2 Marquees

The maths is pretty clear on this - nicely done. Would be interested in the curves on this too - I suspect the mean substantially outstrips the median. Basically we're suffering a major hangover from the failings of Mike Ford's approach. And it'll probably take until 2019/2020 until the squad is appropriately rebuilt.

Not wanting to be controversial but simply asking a question. Whose fault is that? Mike Ford for his signings or financial admin for letting him!

If it's the latter then you can see why they might not want to repeat the mistake.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 12:32
Oh for sure the buck stops at the top. If management allow this to happen without sufficient oversight then they're definitely responsible.

I don't really blame Mike Ford for that approach - but if we want a different one (i.e. a bigger squad) then it takes a three year cycle to change it and some tough decisions (e.g. Banners) need to be made.

I do blame Mike Ford for awful man-management of players, lack of a plan B once the diamond was neutralised, offering some dodgy contracts (Matawalu, Eastmond) and letting some talent leave that should have been retained (Bendy, Devoto, Spencer spring to mind).

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 12:42
Easy to criticise Mike Ford, but don't forget he got us to the premiership final. Since he left we're nowhere near getting back there again and now we hear that squad morale is possibly no better either.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/01/2018 16:05 by OutsideBath.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 13:02
There's the rub OB!

If either or both of those were fixed I doubt we would be debating this topic so much.

PG



P G Tips



Paul Grant: my adopted Player, 2017-18.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 13:57
For the benefit of the doubt; I don't "blame" the Mike Ford approach, I hold him responsob;e for the decisions he made as DoR - I also think we had the smallest squad (relative to other teams) under his watch. On this very thread, Todd gets accused of having a too-small squad, despite being one of the largest.
It was a definite approach to have a smaller squad capable of winning one-off matches; versus a larger squad which is better able to deal with multiple injuries / absentees. It's just a different approach, and one I understood at the time, and still do now - just like I understand that Todd has come in, overseen 2 seasons of record-breaking amounts of broken bodies, and chosen a different path - one that's more likely to get us the knock-out stages, but less likely to achieve much once there.

Personally I think that 38-40 players is the ideal (as I've said many times over the last few years); our current 45 is too compromised in quality, and we're struggling to retain it; whilst Mike's 35 left us too shallow for cover especially when combined with his favouritism meaning that our first XV were overplayed, and everyone else was rusty, with too much reliance on the academy when we suffered injuries.


As with Hasta, I do blame Mike Ford for the fractured squad, favouritism and excessive contacts for his favourites. I don't particularly blame him for the lack of plan B - these things take time to develope, and he's hardly the first coach who's plan B is to double down on plan A. Hell, even everyone's hero, Rob Baxter's does that, not just the Gatland's of this world. Actually, in the Prem, the only coach who comes to mind as having both plans A and B effectively is the oft maligned (on here) Mark McCall.

Club morale I simply do'nt see as being as bad as it was 2 years ago; but I can believe that it is poor currently - not yet fully recovered from 2 years ago, alongside shrinking salary offers. Not playing well never helps either.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/01/2018 13:59 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
Griff (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 15:47
Based on the Chronicles Bath Rugby web chat this afternoon, seems there is no smoke without fire in the moral stories. Hints there is a story to be told!

Chronical Webchat link



"You're going to need a bigger boat"

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 16:22
Quote:
Griff
Based on the Chronicles Bath Rugby web chat this afternoon, seems there is no smoke without fire in the moral stories. Hints there is a story to be told!
Chronical Webchat link

Dan Evans suggested that BC may have some influence over team selection (he previously thought not). If there's any truth in this comment it would explain all the problems Bath are having on and off the field.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 16:24
OK.
Next (probably to be ignored challenge) = define Club Morale as in thread title?

If its 'squad morale' or 'coaching morale' - then say so.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 16:27
Quote:
annie blackthorn
OK.
Next (probably to be ignored challenge) = define Club Morale as in thread title?

If its 'squad morale' or 'coaching morale' - then say so.

I meant it as what it says, Annie. "Club" - embracing squad and coaches - they are after all a team and work for the same employer and objectives.


PG

 
southgate
southgate (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 17:32
Annie ,I also have no interest in tomorrows game so posted my tickets on Facebook for sale ,at the moment I have had no one wanting them ,half price as well.
I can think of better ways of spending an afternoon.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 17:37
Hard to imagine BC saying - 'I think Garvey's better in the 2nd row, give him a gallop there this Saturday'. But it's not hard to imagine him saying, 'You're resting who??? We're paying him, not Eddie/Warren. I don't care how f'ing tired he is. He plays.'

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 20:31
Well done Dan Evans, have to say he writes well, clearly, informatively and in a very adult way. A welcome maturity.
Re stuff: I also imagine that in terms of players/squad overall ‘morale’ it is useful for there to be a good cop bad cop scenario at times. It is fundamental for the coach to have the trust and commitment of each individual player and therefore it is probably very desirable that the coach is NOT perceived to be in ultimate arbiter of all player recruitments or negotiations.

FLAPFLAPHOPTHUD

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 20:55
Quote:
southgate
Annie ,I also have no interest in tomorrows game so posted my tickets on Facebook for sale ,at the moment I have had no one wanting them ,half price as well.
I can think of better ways of spending an afternoon.

Out of interest, why do you have no interest in tomorrow’s game? It’s your club playing a game at home. If the other AW games are anything to go by (like tonight’s) it will be lots of running rugby too. Each to their own, but just wondered why?

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 22:11
Can’t get my head around why people wouldn’t be interested in tomorrow’s game either. It’s a Bath game at the Rec on a Saturday afternoon and it’s in a competition that we still have a chance of winning. Come on you Bath !!!

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 22:21
You keep on believing BathMatt et al! It'll all come right in the end you'll see, just keep buying the tickets and shouting Barrrrrrrth, etc. Have a few beers in the Other Half afterwards - great way to spend a precious Saturday afternoon. O, and it might also rain to add to the matchday experience. (Sm159)



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
dragonfly
dragonfly (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 22:23
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
southgate
Annie ,I also have no interest in tomorrows game so posted my tickets on Facebook for sale ,at the moment I have had no one wanting them ,half price as well.
I can think of better ways of spending an afternoon.

Out of interest, why do you have no interest in tomorrow’s game? It’s your club playing a game at home. If the other AW games are anything to go by (like tonight’s) it will be lots of running rugby too. Each to their own, but just wondered why?

+1
It's also our only chance of winning any silverware this season. #COYB

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 22:38
Quote:
annie blackthorn
You keep on believing BathMatt et al! It'll all come right in the end you'll see, just keep buying the tickets and shouting Barrrrrrrth, etc. Have a few beers in the Other Half afterwards - great way to spend a precious Saturday afternoon. O, and it might also rain to add to the matchday experience. (Sm159)

It’s not about believing though is it? It’s just a game of rugby. Like A leagues and pre-seasons it doesn’t massively matter if we win but it would be great if we did. Like you I have a season ticket so it doesn’t cost any more to go and if you spend a few hours catching up with friends then yes, it IS a great way to spend a Saturday afternoon! OK, would definitely prefer if it didn’t rain though please.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
26 January, 2018 23:17
Agree, should be no tension or worries over the outcome of these games, just good entertainment. Like an A league game but with better players on show.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 06:24
Quote:
Annie Blackthorn
You keep on believing BathMatt et al! It'll all come right in the end you'll see, just keep buying the tickets and shouting Barrrrrrrth, etc. Have a few beers in the Other Half afterwards - great way to spend a precious Saturday afternoon. O, and it might also rain to add to the matchday experience.

If you only enjoy going to the game when we win, and you don’t like to go when it rains, and you don’t enjoy a few social drinks at the ground, and you don’t like to listen to supporters cheering their team, and your Saturdays are precious to you ... then you definitely shouldn’t go Annie. Sorted !!

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 07:48
Quote:
Beergoggles
Quote:
Annie Blackthorn
You keep on believing BathMatt et al! It'll all come right in the end you'll see, just keep buying the tickets and shouting Barrrrrrrth, etc. Have a few beers in the Other Half afterwards - great way to spend a precious Saturday afternoon. O, and it might also rain to add to the matchday experience.

If you only enjoy going to the game when we win, and you don’t like to go when it rains, and you don’t enjoy a few social drinks at the ground, and you don’t like to listen to supporters cheering their team, and your Saturdays are precious to you ... then you definitely shouldn’t go Annie. Sorted !!

Agree. Let’s just hope for an open exciting games with our team reacting well after all the controversy & NO MORE INJURIES.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 09:40
Thirded.
Personally, I used to enjoy playing, and now I enjoy watching, games of rugby.
Supporting Bath or England add significant feeling of involvement (as do other matches that affect Bath or England), but it's the rugby I want to enjoy. If the result is all that matters then all of need is the score updates, or even just the final score.

I guess I'm a rugby can though, not a Bath fan. I watch teams that aren't Bath, and I'm aware of player who don't play for Bath, and I'll tend to have a vague idea who a 60+ cap international is if he signs for Bath, rather than needing people here to tell me.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 09:49
Reflecting over the past few days I have become even more incredulous about the rumour of BC being involved in picking the team or interfering.

BC is not so stupid as to not realise that this would seriously hack the coaching team off.

However I could well believe, like everybody on this board he has an opinion which I would be pretty sure he would articulate.........just as we might do.

Maybe they don't do that in NZ?

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 09:52
I'd be very surprised if anyone needs advice from this forum about players. If it's really that important there is such a thing as google which is far more reliable.

As for the AWC I think isn't really taken too seriously by most clubs so as a fan it's difficult for me to get excited.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 11:21
BC is an ex-Scrum half who prayed at a decent level who will have an interest in the team he is not just a businessman with a hobby.

It is clear from Dan Evans comments that the relationship between TB and Tarquin & BC is very strained at the moment and possibly to the point of TB walking away (Which I pray for Bath FC does not happen, ask yourself a question what quality and the word is QUALITY coach or DoR would come to a club where the Owner and his financial henchman interfere with the playing side of the game - just like Toulon and there they only have the owner interfering here today seems both owner and accountant interfering.

TB is highly respected throughout the world of rugby and may well be a All Black coach of the future. If he leaves under a cloud I am sure the rest of the coaches and players around the world will be very wary of BC and Tarquin.

One thing Nigel Wray is excellent at is keeping out of the playing matters and allowing Brian McCall and his team to do their business - same with Rob Baxter and Dai Young - not surprising then why they are so far ahead of us.

I think BC allowed Mike Ford the freedom to do what he liked and that ended badly and maybe TB is paying the price for Fords behaviour who knows. The main problem is the players really get on with TB and from the people I know they do not have that same relationship with BC or Tarquin, if TB goes it will have a massive impact on the squad and the club both recruiting and present.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 18:13
The club needs a complete reboot. New coaches (please!!!! And I don't mean Todd), new players, new bloke who manages contracts and seems to P off everyone. What we've got isn't working. What a mess, this season has just been depressing.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 18:17
How can you get new players? Cancel the contracts of 42 people? Find another 42 top quality but badly paid players somewhere?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 18:32
Frustrating, yes. But 'depressing'? Not for me. And it's only frustrating because it keeps promising something special. For sure 'nearly' never won the race, but i'd rather be us than Leicester, Harlequins or Northampton this season - clubs whose supporters have every much as right as us to 'expect' success. Newcastle and Sale, are still - it's worth checking - below us in the AV. If the professional era was Day 1, then they've been around just as long as us, so why are they congratulating themselves for being in the middle of the table, and we're whining and wailing about being 5th?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 18:35
Quote:
Optimist
Frustrating, yes. But 'depressing'? Not for me. And it's only frustrating because it keeps promising something special. For sure 'nearly' never won the race, but i'd rather be us than Leicester, Harlequins or Northampton this season - clubs whose supporters have every much as right as us to 'expect' success. Newcastle and Sale, are still - it's worth checking - below us in the AV. If the professional era was Day 1, then they've been around just as long as us, so why are they congratulating themselves for being in the middle of the table, and we're whining and wailing about being 5th?

Well said. It’s only because we all know that we haven’t been playing to our potential in some games, and have in others. For me the frustration comes from the fact that we appear so binary. You could toss a coin from week to week, hero or zero.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 20:30
Quote:
ballsout
The club needs a complete reboot. New coaches (please!!!! And I don't mean Todd), new players, new bloke who manages contracts and seems to P off everyone. What we've got isn't working. What a mess, this season has just been depressing.
I'd be happy with just a couple of fan replacement fans TBH.
When I think of despair / depression / angry / frustrated / helpless as a Bath fan, I think of 2001-2003; Malcolm Pearce, Slice Seveali, the come down after finishing top 3 in '98, '00 & '01, and with '98 HC fresh in the memory (and plenty present in the squad).
Whenever I do that, I find this wonderful sense of perspective, and a renewed realisation that BO and BOB really are just full of sh*t



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 27/01/2018 20:47 by Which Tyler.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 21:30
Well thanks for that Which Tyler and good evening to you too.

I try and write a balanced reasoned post and admittedly have got it wrong on occasions, and said so. I have been a season ticket holder for over 37 years and remember many of the very good and b awful years, especially Elvis's very late try which saved our bacon.

I do think, and have acknowledged, after our good start to the season we were going to see a season of steady improvement and consolidation, possibly gaining a top 4 league slot. On present performances which have got steadily worse, with little or no obvious consistency, and now seeming unrest in the camp, the season is heading for a disaster I haven't witnessed before.

Tell me WT of the remaining league games, which ones will we win? One possibly two wins? For a club of Bath's (previous) status that is just not good enough. I and many others are not going to sit idly by while Rome burns, saying there is much right when fundamentally it is obvious that things are not. Most contributors look for the positive, including I believe BO, but when we have a continuance of below par performances and achievement throughout the club, true fans and supporters will speak the truth as they see it, even if it hurts them to write it or upset many others. Those people see things differently and that is their right, but everyone should respect another's firmly held views without hurling abuse and ridicule in their direction.

I hope you acknowledge the spirit in which this is written.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
27 January, 2018 22:43
Quote:
Optimist
Frustrating, yes. But 'depressing'? Not for me. And it's only frustrating because it keeps promising something special. For sure 'nearly' never won the race, but i'd rather be us than Leicester, Harlequins or Northampton this season - clubs whose supporters have every much as right as us to 'expect' success. Newcastle and Sale, are still - it's worth checking - below us in the AV. If the professional era was Day 1, then they've been around just as long as us, so why are they congratulating themselves for being in the middle of the table, and we're whining and wailing about being 5th?

The difference is that Leicester, Harlequins & Northampton have had their moment in the sun, in the case of Leicester endless years of success. Even Newcastle & Sale have been Champions in the professional era. True, we did win the Heineken by the narrowest of margins yeArs ago & one other lesser trophy but not the AP unless my memory fails me. Why should we feel any better than those first three clubs when at least they can look back on more recent success & are we confident we will finish above Leicester this season? I am not saying we should feel depressed but we have reason to be disappointed at this continued lack of success or reaching the playoffs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/01/2018 22:46 by Bath Hammer.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 13:32
"Why should we feel any better than those first three clubs"

Why indeed? Is there any reason why bath should be able to demand success?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 16:47
‘I try and write a balanced reasoned post’.

‘The season is heading for a disaster I haven't witnessed before.’

Hilarious.

‘of the remaining league games, which ones will we win? One possibly two wins? For a club of Bath's (previous) status that is just not good enough’

Describing something that hasn’t actually happened yet as ‘not good enough’ might just be the perfect encapsulation of BoBworld.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 16:59
‘I have been a season ticket holder for 37 years’ and ‘this season is heading for a disaster that I haven’t witnessed before’.

On the basis that assertion one is presumably a fact then that makes statement two ... Barking, just barking !. (Sm164)

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 19:00
That would include the year we were saved from relegation by Elvis?

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 19:09
Quote:
DanWiley
That would include the year we were saved from relegation by Elvis?
and the Malcolm Pearce buy-out to become a vassal club to Bristol


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 21:11
Quote:
DanWiley
"Why should we feel any better than those first three clubs"
Why indeed? Is there any reason why bath should be able to demand success?

No, but you said you’d rather be us than the supporters of those 3 clubs. My point was although they might be currently below us in the table they can look back with pride on what they have achieved in recent years, unlike us.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 21:19
Is it better to look back at past successes or look forward in anticipation?


Go to the Dark Site if you want to see how gloomy it gets looking back at what used to be.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 21:40
You think it’s bad now, just wait until Briss next season are signing world class players from all over the world and challenging for trophies!! Well , that what they believe anyway. Things are bad , really bad, therefore it’s time to get up out of our chairs , go to the window, stick your head out and shout “ I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE “ !

 
alibev
alibev (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
28 January, 2018 22:11
Quote:
Ali1969
BC is an ex-Scrum half who prayed at a decent level who will have an interest in the team he is not just a businessman with a hobby.
It is clear from Dan Evans comments that the relationship between TB and Tarquin & BC is very strained at the moment and possibly to the point of TB walking away (Which I pray for Bath FC does not happen, ask yourself a question what quality and the word is QUALITY coach or DoR would come to a club where the Owner and his financial henchman interfere with the playing side of the game - just like Toulon and there they only have the owner interfering here today seems both owner and accountant interfering.

TB is highly respected throughout the world of rugby and may well be a All Black coach of the future. If he leaves under a cloud I am sure the rest of the coaches and players around the world will be very wary of BC and Tarquin.

One thing Nigel Wray is excellent at is keeping out of the playing matters and allowing Brian McCall and his team to do their business - same with Rob Baxter and Dai Young - not surprising then why they are so far ahead of us.

I think BC allowed Mike Ford the freedom to do what he liked and that ended badly and maybe TB is paying the price for Fords behaviour who knows. The main problem is the players really get on with TB and from the people I know they do not have that same relationship with BC or Tarquin, if TB goes it will have a massive impact on the squad and the club both recruiting and present.

Brian McCall?

 
MESSAGES->author
roywalker (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 00:52
Quote:
alibev
Quote:
Ali1969
BC is an ex-Scrum half who prayed at a decent level who will have an interest in the team he is not just a businessman with a hobby.
It is clear from Dan Evans comments that the relationship between TB and Tarquin & BC is very strained at the moment and possibly to the point of TB walking away (Which I pray for Bath FC does not happen, ask yourself a question what quality and the word is QUALITY coach or DoR would come to a club where the Owner and his financial henchman interfere with the playing side of the game - just like Toulon and there they only have the owner interfering here today seems both owner and accountant interfering.

TB is highly respected throughout the world of rugby and may well be a All Black coach of the future. If he leaves under a cloud I am sure the rest of the coaches and players around the world will be very wary of BC and Tarquin.

One thing Nigel Wray is excellent at is keeping out of the playing matters and allowing Brian McCall and his team to do their business - same with Rob Baxter and Dai Young - not surprising then why they are so far ahead of us.

I think BC allowed Mike Ford the freedom to do what he liked and that ended badly and maybe TB is paying the price for Fords behaviour who knows. The main problem is the players really get on with TB and from the people I know they do not have that same relationship with BC or Tarquin, if TB goes it will have a massive impact on the squad and the club both recruiting and present.

Brian McCall?

Yea, you know, Big Brian McCall? BBM they call him. They say you leave BBM alone to do his business and dreams are weaved.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 07:57
Where are the comments from Dan Evans saying the relationship is strained as I would like to read it myself?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 08:14
Various bits here here I think BH, DE walks on eggshells a bit surrounding the subject.

[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

I would be disappointed if the whole Bath camp weren't a bit fractious to be honest as some of the performances have been below expectations and so its never going to be (and shouldn't be) all sweetness and light until the issues that we have seen in a few of the games are nailed? I remain convinced that everyone associated with Bath Rugby (including the fans) wants the same thing in the end...

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 09:58
Quote:
BathMatt53
Various bits here here I think BH, DE walks on eggshells a bit surrounding the subject.
[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

I would be disappointed if the whole Bath camp weren't a bit fractious to be honest as some of the performances have been below expectations and so its never going to be (and shouldn't be) all sweetness and light until the issues that we have seen in a few of the games are nailed? I remain convinced that everyone associated with Bath Rugby (including the fans) wants the same thing in the end...

Thanks Matt. It will be interesting to see what he says when he has completed his in-depth review.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 15:34
[quote Ali1969]BC is an ex-Scrum half who prayed at a decent level who will have an interest in the team he is not just a businessman with a hobby.

Good! I hope his praying has brought some divine guidance!

PG



P G Tips



Paul Grant: my adopted Player, 2017-18.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 16:26
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
ballsout
The club needs a complete reboot. New coaches (please!!!! And I don't mean Todd), new players, new bloke who manages contracts and seems to P off everyone. What we've got isn't working. What a mess, this season has just been depressing.
I'd be happy with just a couple of fan replacement fans TBH.
When I think of despair / depression / angry / frustrated / helpless as a Bath fan, I think of 2001-2003; Malcolm Pearce, Slice Seveali, the come down after finishing top 3 in '98, '00 & '01, and with '98 HC fresh in the memory (and plenty present in the squad).
Whenever I do that, I find this wonderful sense of perspective, and a renewed realisation that BO and BOB really are just full of sh*t

What exactly has the club done over the past few years to encourage you they're on the right track?

If we're not throwing away a chance to play in a European final against a rubbish Gloucester team, we're being humiliated in the A League or Sevens while other club's manage multiple fronts and their Academy very well. If we're not throwing away good wins at the end of matches we're f-ing off players in our contract negotiations or telling players they're no longer wanted by email. If we're not playing like drains for 60 minutes with players who seemingly can't pass/catch/run onto the ball or look after it then we're repeatedly throwing away chance after chance to earn victory/a TBP, or worse, throwing away matches we should have won. We may be in with a shout of an Anglo Welsh semi final (let's see if we don't throw that chance away too), but we'll have got there by leaving our academy props on the bench in the last ten minutes while our seniors tore the Tigers academy pups a new one. Auterac played the full 80 on Saturday.

When was the last time you walked away from the Rec impressed by a Bath performance, and I mean truly impressed by a team performance, not by some Roko individual bit of magic. We stumble through game after game, with no style of play, no cohesion, nothing. The Newcastle game was dreadful, save for 10 minutes of quality rugby, if that. When we were given about four chances to go for the fourth try, we f-ed every single one of them up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/01/2018 16:27 by ballsout.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 16:46
The Worcester game a couple of weeks ago was the last time I was impressed (not at the rec though obviously). Beat them physically and took lots of chances when presented with them. They barely got a sniff for the first 20 mins...if we played like that every week I would be more than happy.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 17:30
Quote:
Ballsout
If we're not throwing away a chance to play in a European final against a rubbish Gloucester team, we're being humiliated in the A League or Sevens while other club's manage multiple fronts and their Academy very well. If we're not throwing away good wins at the end of matches we're f-ing off players in our contract negotiations or telling players they're no longer wanted by email. If we're not playing like drains for 60 minutes with players who seemingly can't pass/catch/run onto the ball or look after it then we're repeatedly throwing away chance after chance to earn victory/a TBP, or worse, throwing away matches we should have won. We may be in with a shout of an Anglo Welsh semi final (let's see if we don't throw that chance away too), but we'll have got there by leaving our academy props on the bench in the last ten minutes while our seniors tore the Tigers academy pups a new one. Auterac played the full 80 on Saturday.

You need to take some of BathOvalBaller's newly acquired Happy Pills BO.

We're inconsistent and therefore not having a great season. And that's all ....

 
BBWBaaBaa
BBWBaaBaa (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 17:39
Perhaps we could have whip round and buy BO a Japanese Pleasure Doll? I'm told they are guaranteed to bring a smile to the face!

Happy Monday all smiling smiley

 
Long Term
Long Term (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 19:51
Ballsout as a paying supporter of Bath you can have little to no influence on what we see on the pitch. Your major negativity helps no-one. You may feel it somehow identifies you as the supporter who cares the most.If you are truly so disillusioned with the club, you have the choice to stop watching and suffering so!

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 21:05
Quote:
P G Tips
Quote:
Ali1969
BC is an ex-Scrum half who prayed at a decent level who will have an interest in the team he is not just a businessman with a hobby.
Good! I hope his praying has brought some divine guidance!
PG

Many a true word.... Praying for quick possession I expect - the Holy Grail.

 
BathPatriot
BathPatriot (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 21:27
BO might not be liked that much on this site but his latest comments are dead right. Our Club is going nowhere, it might be difficult to accept this truth but it is undeniable nevertheless.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 21:37
Quote:
BathPatriot
BO might not be liked that much on this site but his latest comments are dead right. Our Club is going nowhere, it might be difficult to accept this truth but it is undeniable nevertheless.

Or rather it’s opinion and so it it actually deniable? (That statement is like when people write ‘FACT’ after saying something).

In my view the league has got quite a bit tougher this year and a lot of the ‘bigger’ clubs who haven’t improved at all (like Saints) have therefore gone backwards in relative terms. We finished last year in 5th and we are 5th now. We finished the year before much lower. I think that we have kept pace and particularly against the backdrop of ANOTHER year with crippling injuries. FACT (!). The issue therefore comes with our lofty ambitions - we seem to have a divine right to win the league and anything less is miserable failure. It has been a curates egg of a season certainly, but not catastrophic (yet).

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 21:48
Correct, Matt. It's a strange season.

Sarries and Wasps only just there. Glos and Newc surprising everyone.

Wouldn't have predicted that at the start of the season.

Who knows where we will end?

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 22:25
Why is it that when posters on here voice dissatisfaction with progress or results, the (predictable) responses state that we have no God given right to ‘win everything’.

No @#$%& Sherlock.

Puerile poppycock.

None of the realists who express dissatisfaction have ever suggested that we should win everything. Please stop trotting that idiotic claptrap out.

I disagree with much of what - for example - BO or BOB post, but much of what they say has more than a ring of truth in it.

Trouble is that views on ere are so polarised that debate has been usurped by personal sniping.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 22:34
Feel Better?

 
BBWBaaBaa
BBWBaaBaa (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
29 January, 2018 23:00
Hopefully the stone will pass, must be so painful!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 00:45
Equally KS if we are going down the pan and the club are doing nothing how do you explain signing a quality 9 and likely 3 centres or are they being recruited as burger bashers for the refreshment stalls.

Plus the fact we are deep into procuring a new stadium slap bang in the middle of the city.
Compare our ideas (sticky at the top of the page) with the Newcastle proposal and then say we are going nowhere!

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 01:41
Quote:
BathMatt53
The issue therefore comes with our lofty ambitions - we seem to have a divine right to win the league and anything less is miserable failure.

I never said we have a divine right to win the league. I don't think it's too much to ask for us to be able to retain possession for more than two phases before:

a) kicking it away
b) dropping a pass
c) passing straight into touch
d) losing the ball on the floor
e) offloading to the opposition

Those aren't lofty ambitions. In no way am I demanding we win the league. I'm demanding we start playing like a team that looks like it hasn't just met two days prior. Saturday was embarrassing from a basic skills pov. Most of the season has been, but Sat was a new low.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/01/2018 01:42 by ballsout.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 07:05
Quote:
shipwrecked
Equally KS if we are going down the pan and the club are doing nothing how do you explain signing a quality 9 and likely 3 centres or are they being recruited as burger bashers for the refreshment stalls.
Plus the fact we are deep into procuring a new stadium slap bang in the middle of the city.
Compare our ideas (sticky at the top of the page) with the Newcastle proposal and then say we are going nowhere!

Shiver me timbers and get a grip. Then point out where I have said that the club are going down the pan, or going nowhere?

It's probably worth reading what people actually post before responding.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 07:06
Quote:
BBWBaaBaa
Hopefully the stone will pass, must be so painful!

If nothing else, your insightful contribution proves my point exactly. Thanks for that.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 07:06
KS the point that I was trying to make was actually that we have had (quite) a few problems but it’s not the train wreck that some people are making out. We have stayed static in the league. Those ‘realists’ won’t recognise that.

Yes BO it does seem like we are trying to play a game using skills that don’t come naturally to most of the players - the offload too many seems to be a real problem lately. Is it because without Louw we think that if we go to Ground we will get turned over? Or maybe because we have seen other teams (like Scarlets) do it to us so we fancy a go? Maybe we are going backwards in the contact and offloading hospital passes to static people?

 
OBinexile
OBinexile (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 07:17
I would hope that the club morale is frustrated/exasperated/annoyed and irritable. Professional sportsmen hate losing (I reject BoBs suggestion that the players don't care) - so a win/loss ratio that Bath has got would not be a comfortable position.

But, do we need a revolution a la BO or evolution?

I agree with those who feel that TB acquired a squad that needed lots of stopgaps, to get through last season, and significant restructuring to provide an effective squad to compete across all fronts. We're moving toward that - and to do that, under the celery cap (or have we jettisoned that now) we have to go backwards in order to go forwards - hence the banners move to Gloucs.

I think that TBs plan is more complex than many, and so more prone to collapsing when the personnel aren't available. Conversely, it provides more likelihood of winning IF applied successfully. I'm not surprised that a complex plan takes longer to bed in, especially when lots of squad players are involved - but also I'm not surprised that the younger guys appear to step up to the mark better than previously - as they've not been trained/coached to deliver a simple plan.

At the moment I liken the Bath approach to the Fijian 7s team approach. trying to deliver a complex plan, unsuccessfully, and so looking pretty incompetent at the 'basics'. We have to hope that the plan will come together in time. My biggest worry is that TB decides to go back to NZ at the end of his 3year stint (which I thought was his plan at the start). then what do we do?

OBinExile

OBinExile

 
robhumperson
Humpo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 08:29
Quote:
ballsout
When was the last time you walked away from the Rec impressed by a Bath performance, and I mean truly impressed by a team performance, not by some Roko individual bit of magic. We stumble through game after game, with no style of play, no cohesion, nothing. The Newcastle game was dreadful, save for 10 minutes of quality rugby, if that. When we were given about four chances to go for the fourth try, we f-ed every single one of them up.

There surely can be no-one on this board that doesn't think this is spot on.

We are totally reliant on individual bits of brilliance, and the vast majority of our tries come from said brilliance. We are incapable of repeated phases of structured, advancing and cohesive attacks, which simply break down (or we kick it away) after 3/4 phases of staying stagnant.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 08:48
Quote:
Humpo
Quote:
ballsout
When was the last time you walked away from the Rec impressed by a Bath performance, and I mean truly impressed by a team performance, not by some Roko individual bit of magic. We stumble through game after game, with no style of play, no cohesion, nothing. The Newcastle game was dreadful, save for 10 minutes of quality rugby, if that. When we were given about four chances to go for the fourth try, we f-ed every single one of them up.

There surely can be no-one on this board that doesn't think this is spot on.

We are totally reliant on individual bits of brilliance, and the vast majority of our tries come from said brilliance. We are incapable of repeated phases of structured, advancing and cohesive attacks, which simply break down (or we kick it away) after 3/4 phases of staying stagnant.

Apart from the odd game - Worc got the ball about twice in the first 20 mins and we had several 20+ phase plays. That in some ways is the frustration, we know that they are capable!

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 08:58
Quote:
ballsout
I don't think it's too much to ask for us to be able to retain possession for more than two phases before:

a) kicking it away
b) dropping a pass
c) passing straight into touch
d) losing the ball on the floor
e) offloading to the opposition


Perhaps the reason they keep passing it into touch is in they hope that some of the critics on 'ere can do better from the stands!

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 09:13
I am certain, the owner, management, coaches, back room staff, players are all as frustrated as we are. The key is to find out why the good things in training are not being transferred on match day. I think sometimes the team is not patient enough to work the ball up into attacking conditions it wait for mistakes. They don't seem to back themselves to go through the phases.

I heard or read somewhere that a mind coach is being employed. The sooner the better.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 11:38
Quote:
BathMatt53
Yes BO it does seem like we are trying to play a game using skills that don’t come naturally to most of the players - the offload too many seems to be a real problem lately. Is it because without Louw we think that if we go to Ground we will get turned over? Or maybe because we have seen other teams (like Scarlets) do it to us so we fancy a go? Maybe we are going backwards in the contact and offloading hospital passes to static people?

I don't think passing, catching, presenting and patience require a high skill level, it's the basics of the game that we struggle with.

At least our driving game off a lineout has gone from comical to average, that's one improvement for sure.

Quote:
BathMatt53
Apart from the odd game - Worc got the ball about twice in the first 20 mins and we had several 20+ phase plays. That in some ways is the frustration, we know that they are capable!

Those first ten/twenty minutes against Worcester were unbelievable. It's been a long, long time since we were patient and held onto the ball like that. Sadly a blip compared to the rest of the season.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 11:42
Much of what Ballsout writes is factually correct and any independent reviewer would agree with, including much greater experienced rugby brained writers/pundits than most of us.

What I truly find annoying is sides with seemingly much less talented players and facilities get much better collective results out of their squads than us. I don't necessarily blame the coaches entirely but do the players who have not really improved much in basic skills in the past few seasons.

Yes one two youngsters have come through like Mercer and Obano but so many others have just stood still. Even if it is just because they are having to learn a new 'system', I would have thought by now for professional full time rugby players that should have been grasped, along with basic passing, kicking, support running and tackling skills.

As said many times, other sides have made much more than the sum of their parts and with our inconsistencies we appear to have stood still or even regressed.

I sincerely hope that as we have got ourselves into a position to win the AWC. we grab that opportunity with both hands, and prioritise the winning of something which hopefully we can build on. Exactly what other sides have done.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 14:30
Quote:
Bathovalballer
What I truly find annoying is sides with seemingly much less talented players and facilities get much better collective results out of their squads than us.

If you mean Exeter, they've been getting better results than EVERYONE, so getting upset about that seems a bit pointless.

I guess you could be referring to Glaws, who are one point ahead of us in the league?

I don't think Sarries or Wasps have less talented players than us, and no-one else has been getting better results than we have.



Stuart

Former ed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/01/2018 14:33 by TCM2007.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 14:39
Quote:
TCM2007
Quote:
Bathovalballer
What I truly find annoying is sides with seemingly much less talented players and facilities get much better collective results out of their squads than us.

If you mean Exeter, they've been getting better results than EVERYONE, so getting upset about that seems a bit pointless.

I guess you could be referring to Glaws, who are one point ahead of us in the league?

I don't think Sarries or Wasps have less talented players than us, and no-one else has been getting better results than we have.

Utterly missing the point, as per usual.

Sarries are two time European Champions. Wasps were a hair away from winning the Premiership. Gloucester are poor but at least they play good rugby and their whole team appear on the same page. What do we offer?

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 14:39
Quote:
Bathovalballer

Tell me WT of the remaining league games, which ones will we win? One possibly two wins? .

If we win 2 out of the remaining 9 then we can all agree you have a point.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 14:44
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
TCM2007
Quote:
Bathovalballer
What I truly find annoying is sides with seemingly much less talented players and facilities get much better collective results out of their squads than us.

If you mean Exeter, they've been getting better results than EVERYONE, so getting upset about that seems a bit pointless.

I guess you could be referring to Glaws, who are one point ahead of us in the league?

I don't think Sarries or Wasps have less talented players than us, and no-one else has been getting better results than we have.

Utterly missing the point, as per usual.

Sarries are two time European Champions. Wasps were a hair away from winning the Premiership. Gloucester are poor but at least they play good rugby and their whole team appear on the same page. What do we offer?

BoB was referring to results, and to teams which are not as good as us on paper getting better ones. So he was not talking about Sarries or Wasps.

Only Glaws really meet that description.

While we are certainly not playing consistently, with 13 games played we nonetheless have better results than most teams in the league.



Stuart

Former ed.

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