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MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 15:34
Quote:
TCM2007
While we are certainly not playing consistently, with 13 games played we nonetheless have better results than most teams in the league.

My math tells me we are 5th so doing better than 7 others! We lost out of a place in the last eight in Europe because we failed to get a bonus point. As the saying goes small margins!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 16:07
Unfortunately we consistently sit the wrong side of those oft mentioned small margins.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 16:16
I think you just notice them more when you're on the wrong side.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 16:46
Agreed. The last 5 mins of 4 matches stand out:

- very narrow wins: sarries and tigers
- very narrow losses: glos and newcastle

If we had won the lot we would be flying high. If we had lost the lot we would be pretty glum. That's less that 20 mins of rugby that has made a really massive difference and we aren't alone in that this season in the Prem. Small margins indeed.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 16:54
Don't know about the players, but it's the home losses that are sapping my morale



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 17:29
Quote:
BallsOut
When was the last time you walked away from the Rec impressed by a Bath performance, and I mean truly impressed by a team performance, not by some Roko individual bit of magic. We stumble through game after game, with no style of play, no cohesion, nothing. The Newcastle game was dreadful, save for 10 minutes of quality rugby, if that. When we were given about four chances to go for the fourth try, we f-ed every single one of them up

'Mood Board' for home games this season based upon my recollections ...

Green good solid team performance, Red given a hiding by a much better team, Amber performance good but blew it or 'meh'.

WIN Sarries 31-21 Excellent team performance with Roko magic to close the game out following a Sarries comeback.
LOSE Newcastle 32-33 Frustrating complacent performance, should have won the game. Gnash, gnash.
WIN Worcester 29-13 Good performance, solid win
WIN Treviso 23-0 Solid performance, frustration at not getting BP

LOSE Gloucester 21-22 Frustrating performance, should have closed the game out
WIN Tigers 33-31 AWC low intensity game but always good to beat Tigers
WIN Quinns 38-14 Good performance, blew Quinns away in first 20 mins
WIN Toulon 26-21 Good performance against a top side

LOSE Wasps 26-31 Spanked, late scores to add respectability and then could have nicked it.
LOSE Scarlets 17-35 Spanked, men against boys

WIN Newcastle 21-8 AWC Shocking first half, better second half.


In summary an inconsistent season with some high points and some lessons handed out. Not the doom and gloom shared by some on ere but could go that way if we don't pull our socks up.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 17:53
Quote:
Beergoggles
WIN Treviso 23-0 Solid performance, frustration at not getting BP

Oh come on, that was a terrible showing.

Quote:
Beergoggles
WIN Tigers 33-31 AWC low intensity game but always good to beat Tigers

We won because they took off their experienced props and replaced them with 18 year olds. We kept our youngsters on the bench and relied on the experienced lads to milk a penalty try to win the game. Outplayed again.

Quote:
Beergoggles
WIN Quinns 38-14 Good performance, blew Quinns away in first 20 mins

Excellent rugby for 20 minutes, then it was all Quins after that. We barely fired a shot, sitting back, losing the ball, defending for our lives etc.

Quote:
Beergoggles
WIN Newcastle 21-8 AWC Shocking first half, better second half.

Probably the worst 40 minutes I think I've ever seen at the Rec. Second half surely couldn't get any worse, and thankfully wasn't.

Quote:
In summary an inconsistent season with some high points and some lessons handed out. Not the doom and gloom shared by some on ere but could go that way if we don't pull our socks up.

Those pointing to 'inconsistency' and 'small margins' are missing the point. Unless we address the fundamental flaws in our game we'll continue to stumble from game to game. We've got quality players, more than say Newcastle, Worcester, Treviso, Quins etc, and that's more often than not the reason why we're in most games and sitting in 5th. Most of those wins don't stand out, and the only one to really make you leave the Rec truly impressed was the Sarries game, and even then we almost blew it at the death for the millionth time.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 18:09
We get it BO - we could be (and should be) doing better...we agree!

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 18:10
The last two colourful posts just illustrate how "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder.
It really doesn't matter posters will see what they want to in any situation. I went to Saturday's game and thought the first half was dire. Watched back the game on telly it wasn't as bad as first thought. The commentators who purport to know more about rugby than I, thought it was scintillating stuff. So keep it coming nothing will change as the result of our opinions

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 18:29
On this occasion I agree with BO’s analysis. It’s too easy to put a gloss on our inconsistent season.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 18:37
The real question is can we do better and I believe we can as on our day we can beat the best. I am in the camp that there is class in our players and class will out in the end. The small margins are fixable and I believe that they will be fixed to make the margins bigger.

We are not in bottom half of the league and still in the AW. We have everything to play for at the business end of the season.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 18:50
I agree we do have the players (when fit), but not convinced we have the coaches to come up with a game plan.

Maybe the players have also lost confidence in the coaches hence the rumours of low morale?

Doubt we will ever know for sure.

Top 6 will now be a great achievement for this season.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 19:57
Quote:
CoochieCoo
I am in the camp that there is class in our players

JJ, Watson, Roko, Louw, Faletau, Banahan etc, of course there's class in our players. Are they in an environment where they can show of those skills to the best of their ability?

Quote:
The small margins are fixable

Small margins didn't make the Newcastle game dire, nor were they the reason we were spanked by Wasps and Scarlets in recent weeks. Our non-existant basics, propensity to panic under pressure and confused game plan was.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 20:08
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Beergoggles
WIN Newcastle 21-8 AWC Shocking first half, better second half.

Probably the worst 40 minutes I think I've ever seen at the Rec.

I can only think that being there in the cold and rain affected people’s views. On the TV from the warm and dry the first half was drab and unexciting, and we were lucky to go into half time level. But the worst ever? Not by a long chalk.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 20:19
The players have it in them to cut out the mistakes so they have the environment to show of (sic) those skills. As I stated small margins are fixable, the players fixed these margins in the second half of the Newcastle game.

We are fifth with a topsy turvy season, I have every faith our squad can make the top 6.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
30 January, 2018 22:28
Quote:
Ballsout
Quote:
Beergoggles
WIN Newcastle 21-8 AWC Shocking first half, better second half.

Probably the worst 40 minutes I think I've ever seen at the Rec. Second half surely couldn’t get any worse and thankfully didn’t.

This sums it up for me. Uncontroversial comment followed up by a negative spiral into the depths of dispair. If I’d said ‘worst 40 mins ever seen on the rec’ the reposte would have been ‘worst rugby ever seen in our galaxy’ or something equally ridiculous.

You do wonder whether some of the posters on ere enjoy a good defeat as it gives the opportunity for a good wallow.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 00:40
Quote:
CoochieCoo
The players have it in them to cut out the mistakes so they have the environment to show of (sic) those skills. As I stated small margins are fixable, the players fixed these margins in the second half of the Newcastle game.
We are fifth with a topsy turvy season, I have every faith our squad can make the top 6.

And as I stated, small margins aren't our problem. We didn't get spanked by Wasps and the Scarlets because of small margins. We've played badly for most of the season because our ball retention is non-existant and we can't sustain pressure on teams because we have no ball to do so. We look like headless chickens out there and that comes down to coaching.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 01:27
Everyone has very short memories (or collective PTSD). The worst game I've ever seen us play by far was the one that had the final scoreline Bath 0-16 London Irish.

Of course, the most insanely tense game I've ever seen us play had the final scoreline Bath 18-15 London Irish.

And to complete the set, and by a wide margin, the best game I've ever seen us play had the final scoreline Bath 47-10 Leicester Tigers

smiling smiley



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 31/01/2018 01:40 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 07:43
Quote:
Beergoggles
LOSE Scarlets 17-35 Spanked, men against boys

We will see how good Scarlets are on Saturday, bearing in mind we beat them away of course.

Wales have selected 10 out of 15 in their side! Does that mean Bath could beat Wales on a wet and windy day!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/01/2018 08:51 by shipwrecked.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 07:55
"The worst game I've ever seen us play by far was the one that had the final scoreline Bath 0-16 London Irish. "

Agree, that was an absolute nadir.

 
Paul60
Paul60 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 08:26
Quite agree about the London Irish game - it was dire - if I remember it was raining all match and the only game I left before the final whistle!!!

 
Barfboy
Barfboy (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 09:39
Getting nilled at Loftus Road (forget the year) was not pretty viewing. Think they put 30+ points on us as well

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 10:44
I've been away so catching up. When I read the comments it seems that there are three themes going on here, which get mixed up, if people could argue with the point the poster is making it would help.

1) Bath are not playing well and cannot retain the ball: I didn't go Saturday, I got a text from my son after the first half it said this: 'Ht 0-0 Bath cant go forward with the ball'. I have seen this endlessly. OK it didnt happen against Worcester, great. Anyone who thinks the team is playing well needs glasses.

2) We are doing OK in the league: We are 5th so this is true, there are some teams better than us and slightly more worse than us.

3) The relative misery of where we are today vs, what happened in previous years between now and 1865: This is a subjective opinion which will incorporate an infinite number of variables.

If posters could not confuse these three things that would be good.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 12:17
Yep, nilled at home by Irish in the freezing rain with Ryan Lamb running the show was the worst ever. That is the only game I have ever walked out of early.
Loosing away at Bristol and believing that relegation or a merger with Bristol was pretty darned low too.

I don't think anyone thinks we're playing well. We have a squad that more often than not is less than the sum of its parts and still seems subject to massive mental frailties in the last few minutes of matches.

I'm sure the injury situation doesn't help with the constant chopping and changing of combinations.

The teams we have struggled against have played a fast offloading game (Falcons, Wasps & Scarletts). That's down to the defensive patterns clearly not working against such a game plan.

Our away form seems pretty decent, our home form has been poor but it's a very tight league this year.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 13:39
@Woodpecker - you forgot the building of straw-man arguments in order to knock them down
eg: "Anyone who thinks the team is playing well needs glasses" when nobody has said that they think the team is playing well.
I know there's a lot of hyperbole on one side, and therefore it's easy to equal hyperbole from the other. However, about the most hyperbolic thing that the rabidly optimistic people claim is "we have good players, we should be able to do better than we are"



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/01/2018 14:22 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 14:11
Quote:
Which Tyler
However, about the most hyperbolic thing that the rabidly optimistic people claim is "we have good players, we should be able to do better than we are"

That's the solution then, get rid of all our good players.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 14:20
Good that we're steering into the hyperbole...

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 14:24
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Which Tyler
However, about the most hyperbolic thing that the rabidly optimistic people claim is "we have good players, we should be able to do better than we are"

That's the solution then, get rid of all our good players.

Is getting them all on the treatment table the same thing? I hadn't realised that it was a deliberate tactic.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 16:10
Quote:
Which Tyler
@Woodpecker - you forgot the building of straw-man arguments in order to knock them down
eg: "Anyone who thinks the team is playing well needs glasses" when nobody has said that they think the team is playing well.
I know there's a lot of hyperbole on one side, and therefore it's easy to equal hyperbole from the other. However, about the most hyperbolic thing that the rabidly optimistic people claim is "we have good players, we should be able to do better than we are"

hmm.. not so sure about that I think people point to games where we play well, or periods of games where we play well to say we dont have a relatively serious problem in our basics/gameplan

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 20:02
Quote:
Dorset Boy
The teams we have struggled against have played a fast offloading game (Falcons, Wasps & Scarletts). That's down to the defensive patterns clearly not working against such a game plan.

Our away form seems pretty decent, our home form has been poor but it's a very tight league this year.

Newcastle play the off-loading game. Last Sat we contained it in the first half and nullified it in the second.

Perhaps we have rounded that corner.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 20:04
Quote:
woodpecker
Quote:
Which Tyler
@Woodpecker - you forgot the building of straw-man arguments in order to knock them down
eg: "Anyone who thinks the team is playing well needs glasses" when nobody has said that they think the team is playing well.
I know there's a lot of hyperbole on one side, and therefore it's easy to equal hyperbole from the other. However, about the most hyperbolic thing that the rabidly optimistic people claim is "we have good players, we should be able to do better than we are"

hmm.. not so sure about that I think people point to games where we play well, or periods of games where we play well to say we dont have a relatively serious problem in our basics/gameplan
That would be confusing "we've played well on patches" - categorically true; with "we're play well" - categorically untrue, and claimed by nobody.
Hence denying that claim is a straw-man argument



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/01/2018 20:31 by Which Tyler.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 22:41
Quote:
Boldangrey

Newcastle play the off-loading game. Last Sat we contained it in the first half

I didn’t see it that way. They continually broke our gain line only to get strangely disorientated when inches from the whitewash. We were lucky not be at least 0-21 down at halftime (Sm91)

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
31 January, 2018 23:02
Quote:
Paul60
Quite agree about the London Irish game - it was dire - if I remember it was raining all match and the only game I left before the final whistle!!!

Well its on topic and agree, this was my worst game also, remember it well. Took my sister whose coat, it turned out, wasn't waterproofed enough to last the 80 minutes.

She wanted to leave early and as my enjoyment had plummeted to lower than the air temperature, I did agree.

Perhaps remembering games like that are helpful to gauge that our current team are not that bad considering we don't have a head coach and half the squad are best friends with the treatment table this season.

I will become worried though if the Prem next season does not have a weak link so the return of injured players and a strong 2nd half to the season is vital. Along with a coaching addition.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 09:30
Which season was the LI game when half the crowd walked out in streams of grumpiness before the end? I didn't but remember being shocked!

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 12:23
It was when Belly ripped into the supporters int he post match interview, only to clarify his sentiment after the heat of the moment outburst.

2009 according to here - [www.skysports.com]

I *think* I left just before the end. If I did, it's the only time I've walked out on a Bath game early not due to other engagements. That was our nadir for me, the Scarlets game doesn't come close.

Hooper punching - one for BOB's scrapbook!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 12:33
Hooper punching. And a late tackle too. I can't believe we lost.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 14:33
I'd forgotten about that rant from Bell.

Dim.

 
bathboyinmidlands
bathboyinmidlands (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 16:14
For me the key issue is one of identity and culture. What exactly do we stand for as a club these days, what are we recognised for as a club?, what is our playing style? Other than a nice place to visit and a good day out as an iconic club with a rich history?

My morale is effected by the lack of clear identity and ambition, we just seem content to be a nice club with history (as above).

We have probably at some point all worked in an organisation with no purpose or clear identity and that has a massive impact on morale and is reflected in results.

What really summed it up for me was listening to Lewis Moody on flats and shanks podcast last week who although wasn’t a success for us (and he readily admits that) he said he was amazed when he joined us just how relaxed and relatively easy going the culture was compared to what he was used to and the players and coaches were taken back but how competitive and aggressive he was in training.

That speaks volumes for me and gets to the heart of perhaps that lack of desire. Let’s face it Mark McCall found the same lack of identity at sarries and he set about creating an environment and clear identity and style for success. I am not for one minute suggesting we should be like sarries as we are a very different club but we need somebody to grab hold of the club and inject a clear identity and style.

That is what will raise my morale and belief.

That said never will ever stop me loving the club and supporting through thick and thin but my god I want some success.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 16:28
I think you're talking about leadership really more than ethos, identity or anything like that. I don't really see a particular lack of that at Bath compared to other clubs. What's Sarries' or Exeter's identity? What do they stand for? What's their purpose?

Leadership isn't that easy to come by, you can create a competitive and aggressive atmosphere and it be a total disaster and you can very effective relaxed and easy going cultures. From my own experience focus and solidarity is more important than aggression and competition.

No doubt Sarries and Exeter are currently getting something right, but there are 9 other teams getting it just as wrong as us.

I do agree we need a long term, visionary DoR that can drive the team. God knows who that is though.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 16:31
I think this is going to underpin what sort of club Bath is for a very long time - Stadium for Bath. If it goes ahead, I think a lot of good things will follow.

What we are as a team isn't going to be fully defined until we have in place a head coach and/or director of rugby who can be there for 10-15 years. That would need to be someone like Stuart Hooper. I have no view as to whether he actually is that person - but his life is in Bath; he has long-term connections to the Club; he is young enough to want to build something, and so it's feasible that he would be here for an era-defining length of time. Todd will be gone within a couple of years, irrespective of success or lack thereof. The hope is that he lays strong foundations for whoever succeeds him. Much as I disagree with the likes of BO and BoB that our team is utterly useless, or that the players don't care, I do agree that there's no discernible definition for our game plan or playing style, and that is a bit disappointing.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 18:49
Attwood leaving for Toulon now he's fit rather than helping Bath through a difficult period.

Further evidence of squad morale down the pan?



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 19:01
Quote:
OutsideBath
Attwood leaving for Toulon now he's fit rather than helping Bath through a difficult period.
Further evidence of squad morale down the pan?

Nope! Read the Chron article and stop jumping to conclusions.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 19:15
Not sure I totally buy the chron's take on this. Seems very odd.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 19:16
The chron article states that he asked for a break, whether OB is correct or not it doesn’t seem like that great a leap to make?

 
OBinexile
OBinexile (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 19:23
re Attwood, If I was 2nd row at the club (I wish) and have bust a gut all season - a la Charteris, Phillips, Ewells, Stooke, Douglas - I'd be a bit hacked if a guy who hasn't been fit for 18 months started getting game time. Yeah, farm him out to our feeder club in South of France who are short of 2nd rows, get him some game time and then see where he is. This seems like a sensible deal to me.

OBinExile

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 19:24
If all was well at the club would a player returning to fitness really want to leave the club?



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 20:44
Barking. Who’s ever heard of a player returning from injury being sent out on loan to a ‘better’ team. Something very very fishy here. Either Attwood is really really hacked off despite not playing any rugby or the club want him out if the way for a while ... or for good.

My morale plummeting further. confused smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 21:24
Quote:
ballsout
I'd forgotten about that rant from Bell.
Dim.
I think he was as frustrated as we were and he came out a bit hot headed, though I remember feeling a bit miffed at the time.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 21:25
I wouldn't trust Toulonnais conditioning as far as I could comfortably throw Dave Attwood. YMMV on the Banahan release, but this seems like a fecking terrible decision.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 21:29
If this has been arranged a while back, and his salary spent on Paz, Hurrell and Vuna, then... Actually then fair enough, though it still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
01 February, 2018 23:34
Bath's spineless management realise that they have lost Attwood and he is not motivated by what he sees being displayed by other squad members. He wants out and the club has dressed this up and potentially getting a transfer fee for someone who wants to go.

The fact that we must lack ambition by sending out top class lock on loan in a vital part of the league season, what about the supporters' expectations and hopes even if the management haven't any? What a b shambles our once great proud club are in. The Farleigh Spa is alive and kicking and the soft underbelly of club is being exposed even more.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 00:04
No wonder there appears an undercurrent of dissatisfaction and unrest throughout the club. Letting iconic players go, s game plan the players struggle to play and now letting star players out on loan shows s complete lack of any ambition for this season or sane management.More relevant it is really taking the p--- out of all the loyal support of those long term supporters who crave and deserve some regular success. People will vote with their feet when we slide down the league table as we will inevitably do. So you appeasers out there tell me different with some evidense that ibacks up your argument.

For Gods sake Bruce get a grip

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 00:16
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Bath's spineless management realise that they have lost Attwood and he is not motivated by what he sees being displayed by other squad members. He wants out and the club has dressed this up and potentially getting a transfer fee for someone who wants to go.

Before you rudely demand evidence, (which as it happens most posters supply), how about providing some for this comment. Not sure I've seen you post links thinking about it?

Fact is NOBODY knows because there are no facts available presently.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 00:22
Dave Attwood hasn't played for us for 18 months, so he's hardly a "star" and we have a raft of other 2nd rows who need to play to gain experience or maintain fitness.

It seems that Dave is on his way out and that is sad for a club stalwart. But he hasn't been available to the new regime, he doesn't obviously have the skill set an ex-Crusaders coach is going to be looking for and he isn't the future. We can use his salary better elsewhere. As, indeed, it appears we have.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 04:01
The reason there is all this speculation is because the Club have not fully explained this unusual decision. It is quite incredible that they would allow rumours & inuendo to flourish for lack of proper communication with supporters.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 06:16
They said it hadn’t been finalised as of yesterday and it would be announced when it was. CC said it would come with an explanation. Hope so.

(Hopefully it will arrive before BoB wakes up with a cracking hangover.)

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 07:46
The club will try and sell his going on the benefits it brings to the club, loosening up salary cap for others, giving other second rows a chance to shine as we are 'well stocked' there, more space on the Spa sun loungers and physio tables, other such banal rubbish!

What about the long suffering loyal supporters who have paid handsomely to see one of their known tried and trusted better players go on a sabbatical at the business end of the season? We don't appear to have any decent replacement lined up either which would at least soften the blow!

It doesn't hold water unless of DA has a career ending injury which they hope to gain benefit from by 'selling' him for as much as possible? Very cynical you say and I hope not true for Dave A's sake!

The whole thing appears to be a cover-up of DA not wanting/or able to play for Bath again and questions need answering as to why? You would think by now a loyal player wanted to be ripping up trees and get out on the field and help his team mates win something. But no he wants to go away looking for 'motivation and gain fitness elsewhere'! Poppy cock! We need him at Bath and he is contracted to play for his club and the supporters who have paid handsomely to watch him.

Why doesn't the club admit the truth and not dress up a story any one can see right through? Stop treating people like idiots.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 08:00
Breathe BoB, just breathe.

 
merc
merc (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 09:08
Is it likely that Dave was always leaving the club next season and this is a way to get some money as an advance against that move?
.......and clears the way for the salary cap issues. For Toulon it is a try before you buy?

Don't get me wrong, I think we have missed him and I am disappointed, but sometimes we have to accept that the club are making the best of not an ideal situation.

I am sure I recall reading on the site the rumour that he was off.

Merc

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 09:15
Lets hope that Bath had this in their minds when they were negotiating a loan fee!

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

 
merc
merc (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 09:18
In fact to look at it another way:
1 Dave did not want to play for Bath anymore
2 so get him out of the way asap and as commercially as best as possible so as not to contribute to a negative situation with the team.

Conclusion ... the only way we will ever know is if he comes back.

Don't hold your breath.

Answers on a post card for a better story than what has been put in to the media.

Merc

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 09:26
Dave's knackered and fancies a pension in the South of France. Toulon have more money than sense and are happy to pay for a pensioner to help fill the odd gap.

 
merc
merc (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 09:28
Danwilley...that would have made a better press release. We would have at least been able to laugh about it.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 09:57
Look one thing we have learnt over this season is nothing is transparent when it comes to our club. Dan Evans has alluded to this in his comments regarding possible issues in the club between playing management and club management.

As I have said before the contacts I have in the club which are all in the playing side and they have told me there are some real issues between playing side and financial side but obviously that is only taking one side of the story and as some have demanded on this site they will not believe it unless an official statement is made by the club.

All season we have along with pundits been calling for more Grunt and I have lost count of the amount of posters in here stating DA will solve this issue. We now have an officially fit DA and we are loaning him out to Toulon!!!

The question is WHY??? A player we have been crying out for all season and now it transpires he wants to be away from the club. I appreciate he has been through a long rehabilitation process but he has not played competitive rugby bar a couple of games for the best part of 14 months so why does he feel he needs to mentally refresh???

He has a young family, local man full of passion so what has made him decide to want to relocate to South of France. One thing DA is not is a quitter, so I for one will wait for Dan Evans to reveal what is going on, I just pray TB will grit his teeth and remain our DoR.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 15:14
Perhaps you should wait for an explanation before getting agitated. I agree there should have been a proper explanation by now but as yet we don’t know the full story.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 17:44
I doubt very much if BoB will apologise to Bruce Craig and Stuart Hooper now that it has been made clear by the club that it was Dave Atwood's idea.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 17:52
If it was DAs idea doesn't that ADD to the evidence that things aren't great?

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 17:54
I But surely we should be asking WHY would a man full of passion and pride make such a decision when he knows how much the side needs him - Elliot Stooke desperately needs a rest, Luke Chateris is having to be managed and Charlie Ewels has just come back from injury and will probably be drafted into the England set up once he proves his fitness.

So WHY 1. Would DA want to leave his club when they need him. 2. Why would the club let him!!!

Many questions need answering and despite all the rumours surrounding the morale at the club they are yet to release any statement to quash that and this move just puts further oil onto troubled waters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2018 18:48 by Ali1969.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 18:21
Quote:
Ali1969
But surely we should be asking WHY would a man full of passion and pride make such a decision when he knows how much the side needs him - Elliot Stoome desperately needs a rest, Luke Chateris is having to be managed and Charlie Ewels has just come back from injury and will probably be drafted into the England set up once he proves his fitness.
So WHY 1. Would DA want to leave his club when they need him. 2. Why would the club let him!!!

Many questions need answering and despite all the rumours surrounding the morale at the club they are yet to release any statement to quash that and this move just puts further oil onto troubled waters.

+1

Why would DA want to leave so much?

Time for BC to step in with an interview to explain to the fan s why Bath appear to Ben imploding. Is it really that bad playing for Bath?



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 18:33
I doubt BC cares what we think. I wouldn’t if I were him.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 18:52
Quote:
BathMatt53
I doubt BC cares what we think. I wouldn’t if I were him.

You're probably right that he doesn't give a toss about the fans, but as the leader of a failing business shouldn't he have something to say in public?



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 18:57
Let’s not refrain from fanning the flames (Sm124)

 
Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 18:59
Quote:
DanWiley
If it was DAs idea doesn't that ADD to the evidence that things aren't great?

Very true, in my opinion I wouldn't be surprised in the near future that another club announcement will be that Toulon have bought DA out of his final year contract and he won't be coming back !



Really hope this is not the case (Sm128)

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 19:06
I think this is all getting out of hand - there are some very real questions which the club need to answer - the fact they are aware of all these rumours and have chosen not to quash them to me as a fan is worrying - plain and simple.

BC does not need to answer these questions - that comes down to senior management and that lies with the CEO, especially if TB does not wish to make any statement. BC has put a hell of a lot of his money into e club and for that we should and most are very grateful, however the club is at a crossroads and they need to think long and hard not to chose the wrong path.

We cannot carry on going from one issue to the next, we need stability and to stick to a plan, we need to back out DoR not undermine him.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 19:46
And to think I was saying the other day that this place was less hysterical than the Facebook site.....some people need to get a grip, the management aren't going to come on at half time in sackcloth and ashes begging forgiveness and understanding for every half arsed rumour; or any decision that doesn't precisely accord with how 'things should be done' by the self appointed guardians of Bath rugby currently crayoning over the internet....



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 20:15
I think FB is worse than us. The debate on ere apart from a couple of hardliners has toned down since the announcement!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 20:20
There is always going to be a knee jerk reaction, it shows people care after all. What if something came up and everyone just went ‘meh’?

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 21:27
Most likely explanation from the club side is that we’ve already spent his cap on the expectation he wouldn’t make it back to fitness in time.

From his side the idea of getting his head back in the right place after a massively long layoff is not incredible.

BoB, is there a convenient dark room you could lie down in?



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Long Term
Long Term (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 21:28
Spot on Toast and Marmite!

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 21:41
You guys who think DA will appear in the BB&W again are dilusioned. He is gone, and why would he come back if his sojourn in Toulon proves successful.? Only if he comes back broken and fills the physio room again will we potentially see him again.

I just wonder if some of guys live in the real world and believe any rubbish the club and Attwood put out. Any real TEAM player would want to come back and play with his mates, and his own club to try and ensure we get the best possible league position. Wouldn't you if you were playing for the club?

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 21:46
Quote:
Bathovalballer
You guys who think DA will appear in the BB&W again are dilusioned. He is gone, and why would he come back if his sojourn in Toulon proves successful.? Only if he comes back broken and fills the physio room again will we potentially see him again.
I just wonder if some of guys live in the real world and believe any rubbish the club and Attwood put out. Any real TEAM player would want to come back and play with his mates, and his own club to try and ensure we get the best possible league position. Wouldn't you if you were playing for the club?

Be careful you are suggesting that Dave is lying!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 21:48
Your lack of sympathy with what Attwood has clearly signalled are sensitive mental as well as physical issues does not become you BoB.

Seriously, calm down and think before posting.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 21:57
Quote:
TCM2007
Your lack of sympathy with what Attwood has clearly signalled are sensitive mental as well as physical issues does not become you BoB.
Seriously, calm down and think before posting.

Agreed, BoB your end of bell ranking has gone through the roof with this one.

a) you know nothing about whether he will come back
b) you appear to have no empathy for his situation at all
c) you desperately need a massive shoe horn to get your head out

We do live in the real world, it’s you who lives in BoB world, population: 1

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 22:28
So what you are saying is it is all right for a player, a vital one to our team effort I would profer, can choose where and when he plays! With no thought for his hard working, struggling team mates or the club or its supporters. Sounds as if it is all about Dave Attwood and the rest can take a hike.

That must help boost team spirit, not!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 22:42
Please read his message again and try and digest what he is saying - he clearly isn’t in the right place (and I don’t mean Farleigh) at the moment. He has gone with the blessing of the club. Have any of the Bath lads said that they don’t agree with his and the clubs decision?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 22:42
Look, count me amongst the chorus who conclude that BoB is a hyperbolic reactionary. But equally show me any other time something like this has ever happened? We're desperately in need of the kind of ball carrying and dynamism that Attwood brings. This is a bizarre situation.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 22:45
BoB you have NO IDEA what has led him and the Club to decide this is the best way forward. Forcing everything into your world view of simplistic blind loyalty just makes you seem unsympathetic at best and, well, I’d be breaking my old rules if I said what it made you look like at worst.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 22:51
Quote:
hasta
show me any other time something like this has ever happened.

So?

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 22:56
We don't know and it would be wrong to discuss someone's medical condition on a public message board but Dave may have been advised to rehabilitate out of the country to help his mental state. He has given his word that he will be back, he goes with the coaches' , club and most of our blessings. Good luck Dave we that matter are all behind you.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 22:57
When is the last time an active professional rugby player admitted mental health issues?
Otherwise, I seem to remember McCaw had anyway off, and Carter had a sabbatical in France, to help their physical and mental health. Not mid-season, bit the closest I can think of.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2018 23:00 by Which Tyler.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 23:09
Are we over-playing ‘mental health issues’ here? Are we not talking about enormous frustration and low morale? I’m not underestimating those, but I’m not sure that is quite the same as mental health. Mental fitness maybe, and entirely understandable, and essentially a rational response to a situation. What I would regard as a ‘mental health’ issue would be less simple to explain and cure.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 23:22
Quote:
Optimist
Are we over-playing ‘mental health issues’ here? Are we not talking about enormous frustration and low morale? I’m not underestimating those, but I’m not sure that is quite the same as mental health. Mental fitness maybe, and entirely understandable, and essentially a rational response to a situation. What I would regard as a ‘mental health’ issue would be less simple to explain and cure.
on the one hand, mental health is extremely complex, and affects about 25% of the population IIRC.
On the other, whether we're over-playing it in this case probably depends on how much we read between the lines, and what we read there.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
02 February, 2018 23:38
Quote:
Optimist
Are we over-playing ‘mental health issues’ here? Are we not talking about enormous frustration and low morale? I’m not underestimating those, but I’m not sure that is quite the same as mental health. Mental fitness maybe, and entirely understandable, and essentially a rational response to a situation. What I would regard as a ‘mental health’ issue would be less simple to explain and cure.

That’s exactly the point isn’t it? We don’t know the details so need to be careful judging?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
03 February, 2018 00:20
I'm not sure we are overplaying the mental health issues at all.
The fact that DA is so committed to his rugby would make being on the sidelines and unable to participate through successive injuries hugely frustrating. Manu Tuilagi was reported to be battling issues due to his long layoff.

Theres much verbal thrashing about in this thread attacking individuals and/or the club in general, I suggest much of this is venting frustration through the keyboard.

Just because you can't see or face the person you are attacking/criticising seems to make it acceptable. I doubt very much if these comments would be made to the individuals involved if it were in person. In fact they probably wouldn't say it to fellow posters on here.

If it is unacceptable face to face why is it acceptable at a distance?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
03 February, 2018 08:21
Belly played on with his psychological issues.

Different people deal with things in different ways.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
03 February, 2018 09:06
Tom James of Cardiff Blues was recently given time off to treat his depression - [www.google.co.uk]

Dave Attwood is not stopping playing. He is changing environment as a way of addressing the staleness and frustration that a long-term injury involves. This is not an illness. It is an ‘injury’. The hardest part of mental illness is the seemingly irrational element - ‘why should xyz be depressed when they have everything going for them?’ - which makes treatment such a complex process. This is an open-minded, forward-thinking way for the club and the player to heal fully from a physically and mentally debilitating injury. Even if there is more to it on the mental health side than I am reading - especially if - then the only acceptable response is to take the player and the club at face value and admire both parties for a mature, innovative approach to an increasingly prevalent rugby issue - serious and career-threatening injury.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
03 February, 2018 09:30
Can't help but think that were things better at Bath with a good squad atmosphere DA wouldn't have to leave to resolve his issues.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
03 February, 2018 09:49
Quote:
Boldangrey
Belly played on with his psychological issues.
Different people deal with things in different ways.
Approximately 12-14% of males aged 20-40 will suffer with their mental health*. So a good proportion of professional athletes probably do.
As you say, everyone deals with it differently, and the world is becoming ever better at acknowledging and helping here.
Some deal with it by suicide (the most common cause of death in males under 35)
Some will fall back on alcohol &/ drugs
Some by dropping out of society
Some by needing a change of scenery
Some by battling through it on their own
Some by battling through it with help, professional &/ personal
Some by refusing to acknowledge it in the first place.
Of course, not everyone's coping strategy is successful or healthy.
Quote:
OutsideBath
Can't help but think that were things better at Bath with a good squad atmosphere DA wouldn't have to leave to resolve his issues.
I'm sorry, but quite honestly, this more suggests that you're not all that familiar with psychological issues than anything else.
No matter how healthy the environment you're in, sometimes you need to just get away. Especially if there are connections between the location/environment and the issues at hand (which will be the case for a god 100% of chronic psychological issues)





ETA: *For those interested, that's my estimate for diagnosed mental illness by the way; it's thought to be about the same again suffering in silence / undiagnosed.
Stats I could actually find were 9% M 16-24; 17% M 20+ (31% F 20+)
Estimated 18% undiagnosed for all ages, both genders; likely higher for men (no reason to expect men to suffer less; every reason to expect men to seek help less).



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2018 12:57 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
03 February, 2018 11:32
Quote:
Boldangrey
Belly played on with his psychological issues.
Different people deal with things in different ways.
And? IIRC keeping it quiet nearly crippled him, and it was only opening up towards the end/after the event that gave him any sense of control and rebuilding.

See WTs stats on suicide as to why put up and shut up is dangerous and, from those judging, draconian.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Club Morale -Genuine Debate Please
03 February, 2018 12:23
Quote:
Rawce
Quote:
Boldangrey
Belly played on with his psychological issues.
Different people deal with things in different ways.
And? IIRC keeping it quiet nearly crippled him, and it was only opening up towards the end/after the event that gave him any sense of control and rebuilding.

See WTs stats on suicide as to why put up and shut up is dangerous and, from those judging, draconian.


... And Attwood has chosen to admit a psychological problem and seek help, where Bell tried to struggle on manfully.

As someone who has suffered Post Traumatic Stress I can tell you that one of the biggest hurdles is admitting it.

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