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Shorty Shorty iiv
Shorty Shorty iiv (IP Logged)

Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 17:45
Hmmmm.

Attwood To Toulon Link



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2018 17:48 by Shorty Shorty iiv.

 
MESSAGES->author
Tall Paul (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 17:50
Sounds a bit concerning. Have we got a medical joker in the squad already covering his positon/ salary? Chron report suggests perhaps Phillips but thought he was on a standard contract, not injury cover?



Matt Garvey- proudly adopted for 2017-18

 
Shorty Shorty iiv
Shorty Shorty iiv (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 17:53
Part of me is like what the hell is going on, the other part of me thinks if what the Chronicle is reporting is correct then it makes some sense. At the very least though you'd like to think that if he is needed back urgently then we can have him back...

 
MESSAGES->author
Widcombe Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 17:54
Malcolm had him off to France at the end of his contract I think.
Don’t quite get this?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 17:58
His contract ends at the end of next season, not this one I think. He signed for another 3 years in November 2015, so covering 16/17, 17/18 and 18/19?

[www.bbc.co.uk]

[edit: just read all that in the article!]

If he needs a few months in France to get himself fit and firing for next season then I guess that's what we will have to stomach. Annoying though, was looking forward to seeing him smash people again (and shore up the scrum).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2018 18:02 by BathMatt53.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:10
FFS
Sounds like a cheap scam to free some Cap in order to get in 4 or 5 journeymen instead.
Rather have Atters.

SQUAWK

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:13
Yes he is contracted to end of next year. As stated on the rumour thread I happen to think this may be a smart move so that big Dave can get rehabilitation and game time in the sun and with a top team.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:17
We shall have to assume that there is more to this than is immediately apparent.

I personally cannot recollect a precedent for this sort of action.
If you are committed to your club, have been nurtured through months of injury and rehab both phsically and mentally, why are you not busting every sinew to get back out there and want to repay that?
If every injured player took this attitude the club would be in desperation to compete.

Can't say this will necessarily be beneficial to the team morale.

It would perhaps be good to have a formal statement from the club.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:19
So Bath spend months getting DA fit then he goes to France for Toulon's benefit instead of playing for Bath.

Simple cost cutting exercise or bad management by Bath?



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:22
Quote:
CoochieCoo
Yes he is contracted to end of next year. As stated on the rumour thread I happen to think this may be a smart move so that big Dave can get rehabilitation and game time in the sun and with a top team.

It flipping better be this. Not impressed otherwise.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:28
If the Chron article is true, it was his idea:

"The Chronicle understands Attwood requested a spell away in order to "refresh" mentally and physically after a long and frustrating battle to get fit.

He is fully committed to seeing out the final year of his contract with Bath, which runs up to the summer of 2019. Bath Rugby will confirm the loan once contracts are completed."

...and potentially a canny move. It does though suggest he is doing some "reverse scouting" for his future post 2019.

PG



P G Tips



Paul Grant: my adopted Player, 2017-18.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:42
Last week during half time, after a terrible half (yes we have done that to death) he was wandering around the whole break having a joke on his mobile in front of the terrace as happy as Larry - comments were made that as a senior member of the team he should have got himself down the tunnel in the mix and got a few people going...I guess he knew he was off shortly. Bit irritating / odd tbh.

(maybe that's totally normal behavior, but it didn't seem like it on a cold and wet day after watching that 40 mins!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2018 18:47 by BathMatt53.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 18:48
Give the lad a break! He hasn't played since May when England broke home. We are going to put a lot of pressure on him as we have missed him. If his mind is not in the right place it would not be right to put him at the deep end. This is looking like a very smart move for Dave and the Club as we will get back a committed player.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 19:48
The Top 14 ‘meat grinder’ seems like a strange place to refresh yourself, the Pro 14 would offer some nice easy matches for him.
However I think Bath could really do with him given the other senior forwards who are out injured.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 19:57
‘...as a senior member of the team he should have got himself down the tunnel in the mix and got a few people going...I guess he knew he was off shortly...’ - this is a joke comment right? If all our injured senior players joined the half time talk, there would be more voices than Mike Yarwood. Captain and head coach would love that.

 
thebigjwa
thebigjwa (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 20:14
.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2018 20:40 by thebigjwa.

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 20:31
This is absolute hogwash if true. We’ve been absolutely desperate for Atwood all through this very poor season and now he’s back and fit he clears of Toulon to ‘get his head right’ and ‘get some sunshine’.

There must be more than this than meets the eye. Perhaps he’s waiting for someone else to clear off before he comes back or perhaps we’ll never see him in BBW again.

I for one am a deeply unimpressed Bath fan regardless if who’s idea this was. Can anyone see Saracens and Mario Itoje doing this ?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 20:36
Quote:
Optimist
‘...as a senior member of the team he should have got himself down the tunnel in the mix and got a few people going...I guess he knew he was off shortly...’ - this is a joke comment right? If all our injured senior players joined the half time talk, there would be more voices than Mike Yarwood. Captain and head coach would love that.

I didn’t mean give the team talk!

I guess I’m just frustrated and sad that we won’t get to watch him playing for us this season, he’s one of my favourite players and we’d have been awaiting for so long to have him out there again. Sad face.

EDIT: he was playing after all, I must have just missed him?

[www.bbc.co.uk]

‘The former Bristol and Gloucester lock has made 13 appearances in all competitions this season for the Blue, Black and Whites, scoring three tries.’



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2018 20:42 by BathMatt53.

 
thebigjwa
thebigjwa (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 20:43
Good luck to him!

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 20:44
Think we should all wait for the deal to be done for the temporary loan and club statement tomorrow I believe.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 20:53
This is a bit like spending £50k on restoring a classic car only to give it to someone else as a daily runabout.

There must be some cap reasoning behind this.

 
MESSAGES->author
Griff (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 21:05
Could be a canny move. Yes we’ve missed Attwood but he’s not played some since May. He’s not going to start and be back on top form and be the silver bullet and solve our problems. A few months away in the sun to get match fit and back in time for pre season



"You're going to need a bigger boat"

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 21:27
Quote:
Tall Paul
Sounds a bit concerning. Have we got a medical joker in the squad already covering his positon/ salary? Chron report suggests perhaps Phillips but thought he was on a standard contract, not injury cover?
I've always thought that Phillips was probably injury dispensation for Attwood; but even if not, the dispensation is what? £450k per season? With all the props we've brought in, there's absolutely no way on Earth we haven't used it all.


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 23:05
Does seem odd which ever you look at it.

Do other teams who are competing for a play off spot allow their best lock and one of the most influential players to go out on loan while going into the most crucial part of the season? Genuine question. Have the old Leicester done this? Saracens?



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
01 February, 2018 23:07
Absolutely barmy decision IMV. Could you see Sarries letting Itoje or Wasps Launchbiry after long term injury for their star lock go off and sun himself in South of France.? Who is running the club, the players?

Bath have spent a fortune no doubt on rehabilitating him, our pack has creaked all season and always lacked the real power DA can offer, and he decides he wants to test the water in France. The weak pathetic management and coaches have gone along with this, on a spurious story around the salary cap.

I tell you now Bath will not get Champions Cup rugby next season. Attwood will be bought out of his contract, for peanuts because he categorically will not want to come back, and who amongst us would turn down a chance to play and live in sunny south France or ply their trade in the wet and cold of the UK? Possibly he has already said he wants to go and Bath by allowing this move to prove his fitness and worth and hope to pick up a transfer fee for him, knowing he is/wants to go.

He is gone and will never wear the BB &W again. Mark my words.

One has to ask where is the club's ambition and wanting to get a wobbling side back on task to gain the best possible league position by letting one of our biggest and best forwards go. We are not physical enough and often bullied by opposition packs, who now know they will not have to face Attwood. The league sides we have to play must be laughing like drains. None of Ewells, Charteris the excellent Stooke, Douglas and Phillips have the power of Attwood. Not many players do. So Bath and the bean counters say off you go for a sabbatical. I despair at what is going on at our once great and proud club.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2018 23:45 by Bathovalballer.

 
MESSAGES->author
CountryMike (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 07:03
Maybe, just maybe there is no conspiracy and the Illuminati do not secretly hide out at Farleigh House. I really do wonder why some of you claim to support Bath when all you do is assume the worst in everything and constantly hammer the management at every opportunity.

Not one of us actually knows what is truly going on so why pretend otherwise.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 07:24
Where is the benefit to Bath in the 17/18 season?



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 07:40
Why do some posters naturally assume this must benefit Bath in the 2018/19 season? Also seems a strange position to have.
Also, wondering why some of us think it's all part of a great conspiracy ffs. It's just very strange and there's no problem calling it so.
Nathan Hughes has been injured a while. If he's fit again in March is it like likely he'll pop to Racing 92 for a bit for a change of scenery? Would you think the Wasps coaches and fans would cheerily wave him on his way, wishing him the best of luck?



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 07:57
The equivalent would be tuilagi who was out for years and on a high salary.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 08:05
Is this part of Mr Hooper's Player development plan? If it is it stinks!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 08:09
So - BoB - how does this; ‘who amongst us would turn down a chance to play and live in sunny south France or ply their trade in the wet and cold of the UK?’ square with this: ‘more space on the Spa sun loungers’’?

 
Martlet75
Martlet75 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 08:17
This probably sounds stupid to most, but it's pretty common for players to get depressed during long periods of inactivity - particularly during the winter months. Vitamin D deficiency can play a big (and very underrated) part.

Anyone doubting only needs to look at Jonny Wilkinson's injury record pre and post his Toulon move. There's no doubt in my mind that playing in sunnier climes helped him elongate his top-flight career - probably by 4 or 5 years.

I don't know the ins and outs of DA's situation, so this is pure speculation, but if a stint in Toulon helps him get his mind and body in gear, and he can rejoin us fit and motivated in the Summer, then this works for me.

Alternatively, he may choose to join Toulon full-time, in which case that's a considerable chunk of our playing budget freed up.

 
Bag Inton
Ken I L Worth (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 08:58
Quote:
Martlet75

Alternatively, he may choose to join Toulon full-time, in which case that's a considerable chunk of our playing budget freed up.


Nail on the head, although compared to many, he's hardly in the big earner league. That was until he claims the Boudjellal bonus. Although as an outsider, I reckon he's not on Eddie Jones' radar for the RWC and fear that he may have played his last game for you boys.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 09:04
The injury allowance is £450k, we’ve brought in Wilson, Charles and Edwards, Noguera and Perenise are also likely to have been paid from the allowance.

I think there needs to be a very thorough review of our S & C

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 09:07
The Club needs to fully explain this decision. If it’s a confidentiality issue I’m sure Attwood would waive that right in favour of ending the inevitable speculation. It is a bit worrying that “he will see out his contract with us” which implies he will not renew” We have missed him & could do with him back properly refreshed but why the need for this???

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 09:26
Regardless of the reasons, we look light in the lock department.

Our lineout has been average and so has our scrum.

Lots of people thought that would all be solved when Atwood was back.

You'd hope there's been a change of plan now though.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 09:42
I can sort of see the logic of this if it looks like he isn't staying after his contract and given the cap, but in the context of the rumours about recruitment and Blackadder it just throws another curve ball into the mix - who knows..

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:07
I suspect there is something in here regarding the cap as he has not yet played this season and so some people have probably been brought in on his cap money perhaps to cover other areas of the squad e.g. Hurrell etc.

With Ewels, Stooke, Charteris, Douglas, Philips and Garvey able to cover there as well we will be fine for the rest of this season where it is looking unlikely we will be challenging for any great honours on current form. Top 6 is the best ambition I think to be honest.

I think it will be a good move for him though to be honest to get him ready for next year given the amount of talent Toulon have and the fact they rotate their team a lot. He will probably play off the bench a lot, have time to mentally refocus but also have a slightly easier route back into full time playing given the fact they train less rigorously out in France it seems. Let's hope it does exactly that and he comes back fit and raring to go for the last year of his contract with us next year and we will then see whether he will stay or go after that!



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:09
If he is fit enough to play for Toulon, he is fit enough to play for Bath! End of.

There is far more to this with personalities wise than we will ever know.

Can you imagine any other employment contract where someone is genuinely off sick for months and months, being paid full wack plus goodness knows how much medical and physio expenses, and then asks to go and work temporarily for a competitor. Professional rugby has lost the plot. And please for those who always want to look on the bright side, don't try to blind us with 'figures'.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:18
His knee issue seems to be very temperamental, if he played a couple of games for Bath and it flared up again causing him to miss the rest of the season, his salary would have been included in the cap and we wouldn't have been able to bring anyone else in.

We don't know what kind of state Attwood will be in, hes had a long time off and it might not be the silver bullet we think he'll be. I'm as gutted as anyone but logically its a smart move, Stooke and Philips have both been playing well, Ewels will want to prove himself to EJ for the summer tour, so we aren't lacking in depth for the engine room. It also means we can bring in someone like Hurrell who will massively strengthen our backline.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:22
He maybe physically fit but the pressure on him to perform for us is immense after 9 months of treatment and rehabilitation. The top two inches are as important as the players physicality. Maybe Dave is not ready mentally to take the pressure playing for Bath but that pressure is not there if he plays for a team which is not a competitor any more this season. He will be back, I am sure, and hopefully stronger and hopefully he will re-sign when his contract ends next summer. Think he owes us for that!

Let's wait for the announcement.



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:39
So, Toulon is low pressure environment and and the French league has a lesser emphasis on hard hitting forwards?
I think, if they were both the prime issues, there'd be easier leagues and teams to take a sojourn in tbqph.
Also, where the indication in all of this that he must come back more committed and will sign a new contract is i don't know. You're just making stuff up.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:40
"His knee issue seems to be very temperamental, if he played a couple of games for Bath and it flared up again causing him to miss the rest of the season, his salary would have been included in the cap and we wouldn't have been able to bring anyone else in. "

I don't think salary is accounted for this way. You don't get added to the cap on the first game you play. I think its done at the start of the season when you register the players.

It seems to me we've either registered him or we haven't. If we've not, then we'd have been crazy not to spend that money and we can't now register him. If we have registered him, and there's some mechanism that we can use to deregister him and take him out of the cap, then we must not have spent his injury money and you've got to ask why?

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:45
From the chronicle article:

"Salary cap rules state that if, due to injury, a player has not played or been a replacement during a season, they can be discounted from the cap unless their club has brought in a replacement for them under the injury dispensation provisions."

We haven't brought in an injury replacement in the second row, James Philips was signed early on and if hes an injury replacement for anyone, surely its for Ellis.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:46
I think that he always intended to retire to France and he's getting worried that Theresa is going to stop the right to remain after article 50 is declared

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:52
I did not say Toulon was a low pressure environment but it would be less pressure for Dave then the expectation we have of him to perform having been deprived of his services for 9 months. It's a theory based on Dan Evans' piece which indicates that Dave himself requested this as a part of his rehabilitation. We are all speculating because none of us have a clue of the facts, as yet!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 10:53
Quote:
by
From the chronicle article:
"Salary cap rules state that if, due to injury, a player has not played or been a replacement during a season, they can be discounted from the cap unless their club has brought in a replacement for them under the injury dispensation provisions."

We haven't brought in an injury replacement in the second row, James Philips was signed early on and if hes an injury replacement for anyone, surely its for Ellis.

Ah that makes sense to me (at last).

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 11:08
From an outside perspective, this is a very bizarre story to me. Why would you let arguably your best lock go on loan to the french league. The Japanese league maybe but the French league is even more taxing for Front 5 forwards than the premiership so I just don't think this decision makes much sense.


The equivalent would be sarries asking Billy to go on Loan to Racing seeing as he has been injured for most of this year, Attwood would have been a great boost to your top 4 hopes for the rest of the season so this is just truly bizarre and even if Attwood requested this, I don't think Bath should have allowed this to happen. This seems to me like Attwood is going there on a 3 month trial and Toulon will pay some sort of transfer fee at the end of the season for him

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 11:15
"We haven't brought in an injury replacement in the second row"

It feels like we should have known at the start of this season that he'd be out for at least 3 months, so the question is "why not?"

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 11:27
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
From an outside perspective, this is a very bizarre story to me. Why would you let arguably your best lock go on loan to the french league. The Japanese league maybe but the French league is even more taxing for Front 5 forwards than the premiership so I just don't think this decision makes much sense.

The equivalent would be sarries asking Billy to go on Loan to Racing seeing as he has been injured for most of this year, Attwood would have been a great boost to your top 4 hopes for the rest of the season so this is just truly bizarre and even if Attwood requested this, I don't think Bath should have allowed this to happen. This seems to me like Attwood is going there on a 3 month trial and Toulon will pay some sort of transfer fee at the end of the season for him

In the absence of any official reason that seems by far the most likely scenario. He would like to have a spell in Toulon but they are concerned about his return to fitness & have suggested the loan before making the move permanent. The slightly warmer temperatures will also aid his recovery. Bath may not be entirely happy but have made a pragmatic decision.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 11:30
Coaches obviously felt there was enough cover, as they must still do. I really don't think this was a premeditated decision, Attwood was supposed to be fit in time for our first game against Toulon, an opportunity presented itself and all parties were happy with it. We don't have to risk having someone on our books who has hardly played in the last two seasons and can use the money elsewhere (Hurrell, Vuna), Dave gets a clean slate to mentally refresh himself and Toulon get the cover they need.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 11:36
Quote:
Bath Hammer
The Club needs to fully explain this decision. If it’s a confidentiality issue I’m sure Attwood would waive that right in favour of ending the inevitable speculation. It is a bit worrying that “he will see out his contract with us” which implies he will not renew” We have missed him & could do with him back properly refreshed but why the need for this???
No they don't. Why should the minutiae of his contract be laid out for all and sundry? I certainly wouldn't want my contract negotiations plastered everywhere.


"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 11:48
To Optimists point I was wondering about how the Toulonnais heat compared to the Farleigh Spa facilities:

I checked the average temperatures of Bath and Toulon (this is outside of course, not on the sunbed)

Oct

Bath: 14 Toulon 16

Nov

Bath: 10 Toulon 12

Dec:

Bath: 7 Toulon 9

Jan

Bath: 7 Toulon 8

Feb

Bath: 8 Toulon 8

Mar

Bath: 10 Toulon 10

Apr

Bath 13 Toulon 13


I think the Spa facilities outweigh those couple of degrees in the early winter, that and having to speak foreign

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 12:40
Made I larf when BoB suggested France is hot and sunny throughout the rugby season. clearly he's spent too much time in the Devon rain. It's been very, very wet across France this winter, and it is also a lot colder in much of France in the winter than in the UK.

Anyway, it does seem a strange decision, but time will tell whether or not it was the correct thing from a Bath perspective.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 13:24
For those of you stating that the french league is more brutally tough for front 5 forwards this may be only slightly the case. I believe it has this reputation because the game is played at a much slower pace there. The collisions these forwards are having though is actually much less week on week probably on the basis it is not quite as fast a game to play as the AP.

For Dave returning from injury the change of pace will allow him to come off the bench, play 15/20 minutes at a good physical level but ease him back into match fitness and match spped whilst enjoying some mental recovery away as well. The guy has spent 9 months on the physio bench and must be sick of being in and around Bath with people asking him when he's coming back and the expectation that holds on him!

It's proven by the above comments all suggesting that Attwood's return will save our season and our front 5 will instantly become AP powerhouses again (okay maybe a bit exaggerated)!!



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 13:49
+1 Exactly Big Dog. More eloquently put than my effort above and I was accused of making it up! sad smiley



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2018 13:51 by CoochieCoo.

 
Never In Doubt
Never In Doubt (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 13:59
Frankly I think this has to be part of an overall transfer policy. I don't understand how getting our No 1 lock fit and then loaning him to Toulon for the rest of the season can be anything apart from salary cap management.


I have no details but given we had to prize him away from Gloucester, then I would assume he is one of our higher paid players and the view maybe that we can get better value for money elsewhere next year.

I am increasingly of the opinion that we are trying to undo previous lack of discipline in our wage structure. Just something else that Todd is having to deal with.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 14:30
I wish BC would actually relate to the fans for a change on this and all the other issues at the club. He promised us progress towards being a top club again, but it just hasn't worked out.

I know he has his minions to deal with the fans, but things are serious enough for the top man to speak for a change.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 14:57
Quote:
Outside Bath
I wish BC would actually relate to the fans for a change on this and all the other issues at the club. He promised us progress towards being a top club again, but it just hasn't worked out.
I know he has his minions to deal with the fans, but things are serious enough for the top man to speak for a change.

Agree with OB on this. Bizarre the extreme to send arguably your best front 5 forward off for a break in Toulon when we're so tight for top 4/top 6. Given the 'bizarre-ness' even worse not to provide some clarity on why its happening.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 15:08
I agree it seems bizarre but it’s best not to jump to conclusions before there has been a proper explanation, which there should have been already.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 15:15
Quote:
Bath Hammer
I agree it seems bizarre but it’s best not to jump to conclusions before there has been a proper explanation, which there should have been already.

This. They don't do themselves any favours at all...

 
westondave
WestonDave (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 15:19
I can see some logic in it from various points of view - however ultimately the one it fails to overcome is the "What if Attwood still being at the club could have made the difference" test. In other words we're scrapping for 4th or 6th, Ewells gets injured again, we're playing on a plastic pitch so Charteris can't play so we're stuck with Stooke and Philips in the second row because we need Garvey in the back row.

If no other considerations were on the table but doing the absolute best we can this season, he wouldn't be going. That he is might be about salary cap, might be about his long term well being but we don't know because nothing clear is coming out.

Personally not going to be impressed if all we get is a terse statement of "he's going" issued at around 5pm on a Friday afternoon when everyone is on the road getting home from work for the weekend. That will rather strongly hint of a lack of proper respect for supporters.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 15:38
Wonder where Bath will send Tom Ellis? He's been out a while. he would add some real bite at 6 for a team out there some where.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 16:04
Quote:
DanWiley
It seems to me we've either registered him or we haven't. If we've not, then we'd have been crazy not to spend that money and we can't now register him. If we have registered him, and there's some mechanism that we can use to deregister him and take him out of the cap, then we must not have spent his injury money and you've got to ask why?
This has been answered - repeatedly. He can be deregistered due to his injury/loan spell - so long as he hasn't appeared for Bath (including on the bench) this season.
As for injury dispensation - for about the 5th time - we had bigger fish to fry. Early this season, whilst we were spending that £450k we had no THPs, 1 centre, and 5 fit locks. Maybe, just maybe, lock wasn't considered a high priority spend at the time?

Quote:
Bath Hammer
I agree it seems bizarre but it’s best not to jump to conclusions before there has been a proper explanation, which there should have been already.
Absolutely, the delay loo

Quote:
WestonDave
I can see some logic in it from various points of view - however ultimately the one it fails to overcome is the "What if Attwood still being at the club could have made the difference" test. In other words we're scrapping for 4th or 6th, Ewells gets injured again, we're playing on a plastic pitch so Charteris can't play so we're stuck with Stooke and Philips in the second row because we need Garvey in the back row.
If we're back to being overly worried about "what if" for when we're 3 injuries down (you're assuming Charteris, Ewels and Douglas are all unavailable), and someone gets injured... then we're back to wanting a squad of at least 60; whilst we're getting complaints about trying to grow the squad to 44 and stretching things too far, not offering star players enough salary etc.
Quote:
WestonDave
If no other considerations were on the table but doing the absolute best we can this season, he wouldn't be going. That he is might be about salary cap, might be about his long term well being but we don't know because nothing clear is coming out.
Personally not going to be impressed if all we get is a terse statement of "he's going" issued at around 5pm on a Friday afternoon when everyone is on the road getting home from work for the weekend. That will rather strongly hint of a lack of proper respect for supporters.
Agreed - it smells to me that this has been leaked to the press before the club expected, and had anything prepared; whilst is a little dodgy, but it happens. I'm not sure if I'd prefer a "this is happening - more details to come" statement nice and early; or a "here's all the details" 3 days after the PR damage has been done.


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 16:11
"This has been answered - repeatedly"

Well, if you will go back 6 hours in a busy thread (or two) I wouldn't be that surprised.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 16:12
The contract was not signed until just before the statement hence the delay!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 16:37
Quote:
DanWiley
Well, if you will go back 6 hours in a busy thread (or two) I wouldn't be that surprised.
Fair point, well made


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 19:12
Quote:
OutsideBath
I wish BC would actually relate to the fans for a change on this and all the other issues at the club. He promised us progress towards being a top club again, but it just hasn't worked out.
I know he has his minions to deal with the fans, but things are serious enough for the top man to speak for a change.

Agree, but quite honestly I don't believe any club statement on these sort of issues just telling us what they think we need to hear. (Sm128)

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 22:37
I wonder what the odds are for DA ever appearing in the BB&W again? I am out looking as this is an absolute gold plated bet in my eyes and nothing that has been put out makes much sense or is logical.

 
MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 22:50
Quote:
Bathovalballer
I wonder what the odds are for DA ever appearing in the BB&W again? I am out looking as this is an absolute gold plated bet in my eyes and nothing that has been put out makes much sense or is logical.

Like your posts!



http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7Mwi7pLXeM89TY2KFdDQ-UUDGSv1FKNdhYdrW-koAuRN3tsqCPfE3onFxuO-3cZ0057Tom1uJai3vjkz3dvY_Q/1998%20Euro%20Champs.jpg http://zdgzqa.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pFul9UAV5zEXOzeRc1kmmlgDKXTYTIlTnGoQzYelH6KzdCeU-exN0IGo74QN2OGvlSoEiVjzAESvHx9BFlBsNFA/Bath%202008.jpg

 
merc
merc (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
02 February, 2018 23:48
I would like to correct my previous posts...... bizarre as it sounds I think we will find out that We have got it all wrong.
Merc

 
sirtidychris
sirtidychris (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
03 February, 2018 09:10
great news we can free up some salary cap, hopefully we can also offload watson, joseph, Faletau and Louw and free up some more cap, then we can get eight more players instead who aren't getting game time for second division french teams or pro 12 cast offs...awesome

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
03 February, 2018 17:34
In the absence of any more information I'll assume the injury /situation is particular/unusual enough for DA that an unconventional solution was the best on offer.
It doesn't bode well, let's not kid ourselves with baseless optimism, however I hope every one involved is sincere enough in their explanations (however limited) that this was the best they could think of to the benefit of Bath and DA.



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
24 February, 2018 10:42
Just noted that the ex French international Toulon lock Jocelain Suta aged 35 has announced his retirement after picking up an Achilles tendon injury in training.....

Is DA playing this weekend? I couldn't get their club web site to work on my phone.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
24 February, 2018 11:25
He is in the squad for the game tomorrow, can't see the team is up yet.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 09:32
Quote:
merc
I would like to correct my previous posts...... bizarre as it sounds I think we will find out that We have got it all wrong.
Merc

What were your previous posts? Given that practically every single variation of opinion and interpretation has been expressed on DA’s move, we can’t all have been wrong.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 16:43
Atwood playing, Toulon behind 17-14 at the start of the 2nd half.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 17:41
Is it true Attwood scored both tries?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 19:04
Not quite BnG Pietersen and Nonu scored in a Toulon win 27 - 20, decent win v La Rochelle.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 21:10
Seems to have played the full 80 today - can't find any mention of specific interventions in the match commentary.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 21:54
99 tackles, 50 turn overs and made 500 metres - so they tell me.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 22:02
Please stop quoting your own stats from Sundays old Prostates run out!

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
25 February, 2018 22:42
First time I've ever heard 'Old Prostates' and 'run out in the same phrase!

Dribble, more like.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 10:22
I am very glad Big Dave is playing, and hopefully enjoying it, but do really wish it was for Bath as we need him more than a side/squad stuffed with very good alternatives!!!!

In some ways, his non availability for us hurts even more with his rehabilitation/playing for another side. Just adds to my belief he is gone for good which IMV is a real shame.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 11:04
Come on BoB, Stooke on Saturday registered 9.5 on thee Grunt Factor Scale.

 
Long Term
Long Term (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 11:08
Tell me BoB do you think Attwood has gone for good?

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 11:12
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Just adds to my belief he is gone for good which IMV is a real shame.

BoB

Statement on Toulon Club website from Mourad Boudjellal on 16 Feb:

"Même s’il est excellent, il est hors de question qu’il reste à Toulon. Nous avons passé un deal avec Bath, nous le respecterons. C’est un grand joueur qui voulait se relancer dans un grand club. Point final. De toute manière, même s’il était attiré par une expérience en Top 14, le joueur est conscient que s’il revient au meilleur de sa forme, il ne sera pas loin de disputer la Coupe du monde… C’est son objectif principal. »

This translates as:

"Even if it is excellent, it is out of the question that he stays in Toulon. We have a deal with Bath, we will respect it. He is a great player who wanted to get back into a big club. Period. Anyway, even if he was attracted by an experience in Top 14, the player is aware that if he returns to the best of his form, it will not be far to compete in the World Cup ... This is his main goal "

PG



P G Tips



Paul Grant: my adopted Player, 2017-18.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 11:16
If only someone, somewhere - at least one of Toulon, Bath Rugby or Dave himself - would just issue a clear statement about all of this.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 11:25
To be fair I am very heartened by that Toulon statement from their owner, and really do want big Dave back in Bath colours. Shame is we do need him.now, even allowing for the continued excellence of my player of the year, by some distance, Elliott Stooke. One of our best signings and he continues to deliver and get better all the time
Thought he had a stormer against a tough Sale pack. My slight concern is Mr Jones might become a calling.....

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 11:36
"My slight concern is Mr Jones might become a calling"

Good as he's been, i can't see that. He's got to get past Kruis and Lawes first, and leapfrog Ewels.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 11:44
Oh dear Opti. I don't think you should have mentioned Ewels.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 12:11
Well do you think, with evidence please, Mr Ewels is performing of has performed better than the Stooker?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 12:19
I don't disagree with you that Stooke is sometimes a more visible performer than Ewels, and i really, really don't claim to know anything about 2nd row play, but if push game to shove (and even if it turned into smack in the mouth), i'd still tend towards Ewels because pretty much every AV team has got a Stooke, while ball-playing 6'7" lads with a good rugby brain just don't grow on trees.

 
nick holder
nick holder (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 13:13
well I guess we will have Charlie back for this friday so BoB will be able to compare Stooke and Ewells against the same opposition

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 13:28
Quote:
Optimist
If only someone, somewhere - at least one of Toulon, Bath Rugby or Dave himself - would just issue a clear statement about all of this.
If it's for personal reasons, I wouldn't expect anything as it's confidential and private.

I agree, not knowing the ins and outs leads to speculation, but it's one of those we may never know.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 13:29
I suspect Opti is deploying a touch of sarcasm.

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
26 February, 2018 15:33
Good point! Sarc Sonar wasn’t pinging earlier, must have failed to switch it on.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
03 March, 2018 14:59
Dave Atwood starting again at 4 for Toulon today, currently Lyon 6-3 Toulon

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
03 March, 2018 15:10
Is that 3 games on the trot? Wonder when he last played 3 consecutive games for Bath?

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Attwood to Toulon on loan
03 March, 2018 15:56
Quote:
BathMatt53
Is that 3 games on the trot? Wonder when he last played 3 consecutive games for Bath?
23/04/17 to 06/05/17... So his last 3 matches for Bath


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

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