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MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 18:02
I thought Simmonds wasn't particularly effective in the first 60 and he struggled to impose himself. But really exploded into life when the Italians started to tire. Secured a bench spot in my opinion when Billy returns. He will be brilliant coming off the bench against sides in the world cup.

Also England missed Joseph's midfield defence. I thought he was excellent when he came on.

A really good hit out but the will need to improve for next week.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 18:10
Didnít do masses going forward in first half but sure put in a defensive shift. Made loads of tackles.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 18:11
Quote:
BathSalmon
I thought Simmonds wasn't particularly effective in the first 60 and he struggled to impose himself. But really exploded into life when the Italians started to tire. Secured a bench spot in my opinion when Billy returns. He will be brilliant coming off the bench against sides in the world cup.
Also England missed Joseph's midfield defence. I thought he was excellent when he came on.

A really good hit out but the will need to improve for next week.


I think the tackle stats will prove you wrong.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 18:27
I've seen the tackle stats. He has an impressive engine for sure, but they didn't stand out to me as dominant. And certainly his carrying in the tight lacked punch.

That said it was still a very good six nations debut and plenty to build on.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 18:31
BathSalmon - I was think exactly the same about Simmonds over The frst 60, and then the tackle stats came up. But is it enough to just complete tackles? Underhill is much more destructive, and I donít recall Simmonds getting over the ball. Billy, Simmonds and Robshaw could have a bit of everything though.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 18:39
Quote:
Optimist
BathSalmon - I was think exactly the same about Simmonds over The frst 60, and then the tackle stats came up. But is it enough to just complete tackles? Underhill is much more destructive, and I donít recall Simmonds getting over the ball. Billy, Simmonds and Robshaw could have a bit of everything though.

I agree but would worry about the lineout, puts a huge emphasis on the locks to win ball. Making it easier to disrupt.

This is where Mercer has it over Simmonds and why Lawes is at 6.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 18:54
Surprising amount of criticism on here individually & collectively for what I thought was a good performance against a lively Italian side. The only failing which must be addressed before next weekend is being beaten too easily out wide. Wales could take full advantage of that. I thought that AW was just as deserving of MOM as Simmonds but Exeter has 4 players on the field at the end. Not bad for a team without any stars!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 19:04
Agree there BH, add in that Farrell missed 3 conversions and this was a fitter, more agressive Italy we did fine in my book. Gone are the days of a guaranteed 50 points by any of the 6N against Italy who can only get better.

 
MESSAGES->author
JimDaff (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 19:23
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Gap in the market - barber shops in Exeter.
i
Theyíre just in need of one who doesnít just shave the sides off and job done! One of the requirements to play for Exeter is you have to look like an extra from waterworld/point break.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 19:34
Unlike when people pick apart Bath wins, I think criticism after a game like that can be justified. The difference for me being England are very vocal about becoming the no. 1 rugby team in the world. So where you see room for improvement then it is okay to highlight it.

I actually thought the game was good fun to watch. Italy were more than game and produced some very decent tries.

Watson's finishes were superb. Early in his career I'm not sure he would have backed himself. So it's great to see his confidence levels are so high. Loved the hitch-kick to burst past the 3 cover defenders for his 2nd.

We kicked more ball than I had expected. I was thinking we would see more of the premiership style of keeping the ball even from deep.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 20:02
Watson is just so good. Still only 24, three time test Lion, ~30 caps for England scoring at a try every other game. I'll repeat something I said 3 years ago, I think he's England's Adam Ashley-Cooper.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 20:04
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
OutsideBath
Would give England no more than 6 out of 10 for that performance.

Just out of interest, over the 80 minutes what exactly was missing? Or are you just being mean spirited?

Long periods where intensity dropped, too many penalties given away and defensively poor for their tries.

I would say short periods where intensity dropped, I don't recall a lot of penalties (maybe stats show differently) and the way the defence was exposed out wide is not difficult to fix, if anything preferred to conceding straight through the middle. Not a perfect performance but first up nothing to be too concerned about at this stage. It is always hard to judge against Italy but more like a 7 at least from me.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 20:05
Quote:
BathSalmon

Watson's finishes were superb. Early in his career I'm not sure he would have backed himself. So it's great to see his confidence levels are so high. Loved the hitch-kick to burst past the 3 cover defenders for his 2nd.

Yes the second was excellent, acceleration to sweep past two who were left distant on the ground then to bounce of the last illegal 'no arms' tackle' and ground the ball.

Did raise an issue in my head though. Once the TMO confirmed the grounding and that he was infield the try was awarded.

Farrell then had a wide out conversion which he missed. HOWEVER, if a penalty try had been awarded England would have had 7 points but Watson would not have been awarded the try despite a brilliant finish.

So we were the victims of foul play, it cost us 2 points and Italy got away with a yellow. Had we been given the penalty try AW would have got no credit for his skill. Doesn't seem right somehow.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 20:10
Roughly half that Italian side were making their 6N debuts. Just 3 survivors from last year according to Guardian. England starting XV was 13/15 full-strength. That's as close as they will ever get to being absolute first choice. The All Blacks would have put 70 on them. There's not much point in using any other measure, IMO.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 20:33
Quote:
shipwrecked
Yes the second was excellent, acceleration to sweep past two who were left distant on the ground then to bounce of the last illegal 'no arms' tackle' and ground the ball.

Did raise an issue in my head though. Once the TMO confirmed the grounding and that he was infield the try was awarded.

Farrell then had a wide out conversion which he missed. HOWEVER, if a penalty try had been awarded England would have had 7 points but Watson would not have been awarded the try despite a brilliant finish.

So we were the victims of foul play, it cost us 2 points and Italy got away with a yellow. Had we been given the penalty try AW would have got no credit for his skill. Doesn't seem right somehow.

Foul / illegal play in the act of scoring, the restart should have been a penalty to England. However refs seem to have forgotten that (along with foot up etc, etc)

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 20:52
Quote:
BathSalmon
I thought Simmonds wasn't particularly effective in the first 60 and he struggled to impose himself. But really exploded into life when the Italians started to tire. Secured a bench spot in my opinion when Billy returns. He will be brilliant coming off the bench against sides in the world cup.
Also England missed Joseph's midfield defence. I thought he was excellent when he came on.

A really good hit out but the will need to improve for next week.


I disagree BathSalmon, while he did not make the eye catching carries in the first 60, he was very effective defensively and led the line speed in defense many times and made a lot of very good chop tackles, he got through a lot of work defensively.

I still think it is a 3 horse race for the 7 Jersey for the WC. Simmonds who is a Hooper type player, Underhill who is good defensively but limited in attack and Curry who to me long term may be the best of the 3 as a 7.

The speed that Simmonds has is a massive point of difference and in a back row with Billy who is effective at doing the heavy duty stuff, he could be devastating in the wider channels as he is rapid. Eddie just compared him to Victor vito and i think that's a good comp, also Michael Hooper

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 22:22
Simmonds canít be far from the speed and particularly the size and shape of Hooper I would have thought? Not quite the talent yet obviously.

I am a massive fan of the Curry boys tbh.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 22:36
Simmonds IMO was outstanding but like BO, I don't believe he has the full physical attributes you normally associate with the modern game number 8. Open side yes or even, at a stretch, centre.

I thought Care was red hot and his fast, no step then pass delivery from set pieces and broken play made it easy for the backs against a good tough tackling Italian side.

I think we can all see how our neighbours down the M5 have progressed and with Slade and possibly Maunder to come in, all of them being early/mid twenties, they are going to be around for the next 5 years or more! We have got some catching up to do and I don't think we can look down our noses at them!!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
04 February, 2018 23:50
Interestingly Andy Robinson said tonight that Teo will stay at 13 to add physicality because England for the lat 2 seasons have had a tackling weakness in the centres.

Don't see it myself. I think JJ will play next week for his defence!!

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 04:47
England were good but I thought that Italy were excellent, given where they were starting from. If they play like that against Scotland and France, you'd fancy them to win.

I'd have given Simmonds MOM as,well. An interesting player, if you are that quick, you don't have to be heavy and it gives England the option of a different way of playing. Putting him at 12 off a line out might be fun.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2018 04:48 by joethefanatic.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 06:36
Italy will not make it easy for the others. I thought our defending out wide got better with JJ. Launchbury again looked class. He must continue to start.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 08:12
Quote:
joethefanatic
England were good but I thought that Italy were excellent, given where they were starting from. If they play like that against Scotland and France, you'd fancy them to win.
I'd have given Simmonds MOM as,well. An interesting player, if you are that quick, you don't have to be heavy and it gives England the option of a different way of playing. Putting him at 12 off a line out might be fun.

I think itís horses for courses. There are times when the extra bulk & power that a Vunipola provides is a big asset. I can see Simmonds either going to 7 or coming on as a replacement when the opposition are flagging. One aspect of his games he could develop is getting over the ball & gaining turnovers like Hooper & Pocock.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 08:23
No one has mentioned the value of Vunipola's bulk in the scrum.

Someone will find the stats to prove me wrong, but I recall problems with the big French pack last year.

Simmonds would make an excellent 'finisher'.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 08:29
Yes, horses for courses for me too, but Simmonds does have a big advantage in the modern format where forwards often end up out wide and that is his acceleration.
Recently, by that I mean the past 5 years, the game has been all about making contact using power to get across the gain line.

What was noticeable was how effective avoiding contact was in the Wales Scotland game in a fast passing offloading before contact game. The bonus for me was how there were fewer HIA interruptions allowing the game to flow. Simmonds is perfect for that style of play and whilst he lacks BV's power he is a pretty powerful package!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 08:52
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Surprising amount of criticism on here individually & collectively for what I thought was a good performance against a lively Italian side. The only failing which must be addressed before next weekend is being beaten too easily out wide. Wales could take full advantage of that. I thought that AW was just as deserving of MOM as Simmonds but Exeter has 4 players on the field at the end. Not bad for a team without any stars!

This is important, we need the Exeter players to be stars to push up their salary bill

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 08:55
I always find it curious that people talk about lighter, quicker players coming on and doing damage Ďin the last 20 when the opposition is tiringí. Simmonds is going to be quicker than 95% of the backrows he plays against from minute 1. Why not say of Billy V - imagine him coming off the bench in the last 20 against tiring defenders? I liked the England that blew Italy away in the first 10 minutes with pace more than the last 10 where we just finished them with fitness. Get Daly into the back 3 with Ant and May and England should be able to panic just about anyone. And get Simmonds on from the start. Maybe keep Robshaw on the bench for the experience thatís needed in the last 20.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 09:27
We have options and the cap count is rising. I don't think we need many bolters at this stage. Another option at 9 and that is about it. It is a good position to be in. Our weakness is when the opposition go pop and pop and recycle. We struggled against Ireland in this area. It cost us last year.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 09:36
If he picks Wigglesworth I think my head will explode!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 10:04
Emergency instigation of exclusion zone around Opti's house required. That's who I would expect. Sarries connection.

 
Lost Soul
Lost Soul (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 10:11
As an alternative thought a certain Z Mercer has both pace and a little more bulk though still very young!

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 10:15
Quote:
Optimist
I always find it curious that people talk about lighter, quicker players coming on and doing damage Ďin the last 20 when the opposition is tiringí. Simmonds is going to be quicker than 95% of the backrows he plays against from minute 1. Why not say of Billy V - imagine him coming off the bench in the last 20 against tiring defenders? I liked the England that blew Italy away in the first 10 minutes with pace more than the last 10 where we just finished them with fitness. Get Daly into the back 3 with Ant and May and England should be able to panic just about anyone. And get Simmonds on from the start. Maybe keep Robshaw on the bench for the experience thatís needed in the last 20.

Valid points, Opti, however the first duty of the front 5 is to secure our own ball and Vunip's bulk is useful for that.


So start with Vunip to insure good ball and bring on Simmonds when teams start to tire.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 10:20
Since the replacement 9 has been described as a 'kicking 9' I also think there is a serious risk for Opti's head.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 10:43
Quote:
shipwrecked
Emergency instigation of exclusion zone around Opti's house required. That's who I would expect. Sarries connection.
Sadly, I suspect we'll be seeing Wiggles on the bench.
However, the Sarries connection would be far more relevant if we had a Sarrie at 8 and a Sarrie at 10. As it is, I'd far rather give the 21 shirt to someone who actually develop into being an international player; even if it would be a bit of a surprise.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 11:08
Wigglesworth will be 36 by the time of the WC. I seriously hope that Eddie is brave enough to look beyond the next 6Ns game. He is a bit weird on selection - seems to be either ultra-conservative or ultra-radical.

So a couple more injuries and we could end up with Wigglesworth and Marcus Smith at half back!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 11:31
I agree Opti, but then when you lose just one game its quite hard to criticise, we would all like to see Robson but it seems it has to be done on his terms.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 11:41
The situation does, however, call into question his strategy of using only 2 scrum-halfs. It probably won't matter because Care will play 70 minutes next week, but an early injury could really derail things. I suppose, looking at it that way, the sensible pick is indeed Wigglesworth. But it sort of proves that he should have been more bold about using the Italy game to introduce Robson or Vellacott.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 11:51
Picking 2 only works if the number 3 is an experienced safe pair of hands. I expect it to be Wigglesworth and cannot see another option.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 12:08
Quote:
Optimist
The situation does, however, call into question his strategy of using only 2 scrum-halfs. It probably won't matter because Care will play 70 minutes next week, but an early injury could really derail things. I suppose, looking at it that way, the sensible pick is indeed Wigglesworth. But it sort of proves that he should have been more bold about using the Italy game to introduce Robson or Vellacott.

About 2 minutes before Youngs went off i was thinking how consistent youngs/care has been and how they are always fit for England

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 12:13
So it was your fault Woody, how could you be so careless!

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 12:21
Wales might target Care if Eddie chose an inexperienced 9 on the bench hoping he might only need 10 mins.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 12:23
Wal will want to slow Eng's ball down anyway, so Care was always going to be a target.

Still need a good bench scrum half, though.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 12:39
EggChasers reviewed this this morning and said the last time an non-Care/Youngs scrum-half started for England was Summer 2015.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 13:07
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Wales might target Care if Eddie chose an inexperienced 9 on the bench hoping he might only need 10 mins.
That'll be a novel experience for a SH - they never usually get targetted...
No, hang on!

winking smiley



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2018 13:07 by Which Tyler.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 13:51
How about this for tempting fate - aaaarggh. Youngs in the Guardian last week:

"Scrum-halves are a protected species in rugby union, looked after by the forwards in front of them, like quarterbacks in American football. Opponents relish sacking them but rarely get the opportunity and players in the position tend to avoid many of the contact injuries their colleagues regularly pick up, although Walesís luckless Rhys Webb is an obvious and recent exception. Youngs says: ďYou never want to tempt fate but as scrum-half you clock up the metres in running but in terms of physical contact, it is one of the lowest in the side. As long as you look after yourself with recovery and are diligent off the field, you are normally in pretty good shape to continue."

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 15:18
Quote:
Optimist
If he picks Wigglesworth I think my head will explode!

I think he should pick Robson or Vellecot from Gloucester but he will pick Wiggy for his experience.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 15:52
Wiggleswoth was called in.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 15:54
Quote:
Optimist
If he picks Wigglesworth I think my head will explode!

[www.englandrugby.com]


Wiggy has been called in. Hopefully your head does not explode optimist as i like seeing your contributions.

Cowan Dickie also called into camp and Hughes is there to be assessed.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 15:54
Quote:
hasta
Watson is just so good. Still only 24, three time test Lion, ~30 caps for England scoring at a try every other game. I'll repeat something I said 3 years ago, I think he's England's Adam Ashley-Cooper.

Couldn't agree more, although I do wonder if his talents are wasted at Bath with our lack of cohesive attacking plans. Hopefully he doesn't feel that way.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 18:22
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Quote:
Optimist
If he picks Wigglesworth I think my head will explode!

Wiggy has been called in. Hopefully your head does not explode optimist as i like seeing your contributions.

Thank you Barnet. Head all intact. I guess it makes sense to go for the experience at this stage, but it still feels odd that Eddie has let this position slide.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 18:44
Yeah I agree Optimist, I think he should have gone with 3 but, his thinking and he explained in an interview is that it's hard to have 3 number 9's as they won't get enough training time as he would like especially when they play 15 v 15 on the Tuesday of test week.

I also think he knows he has Wiggy who is experienced and can call on in case of an emergency as we clearly have now.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 20:15
If all you care about is beating Wales then wigglesworth is the best option. If you're worried about Youngs or Care or both going down in the world cup...

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 20:21
There is a tournament to win, the tour matches and AIs will offer opportunities.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 20:22
They demonstrably haven't before

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 20:49
Quote:
hasta
They demonstrably haven't before
if Youngs' injury is as bad as it looks (unhappy triad), then the summer tour will provide chances for someone. IMO, might as well given them 10 minutes anytime in the 6N too, Wiggle can come in if another goes down.
6-18 months recovery if I'm right



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2018 20:55 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 20:53
Given Youngs skipped the lions/summer tour, seems like that would have been ideal. However...

It's a weird blind spot for Eddie.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 21:33
4 months, so effectively rest of prem season.

[www.skysports.com]

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 21:46
Quote:
BathMatt53
4 months, so effectively rest of prem season.
[www.skysports.com]
"just" the MCL - good news for him


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
05 February, 2018 22:10
Bet Tigers are pleased!

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 07:53
Quote:
shipwrecked
Bet Tigers are pleased!

The Dark Site are reasonably philosophical about it. I imagine it's because it cannot possibly be Lancaster's fault. Altho Wils will find a way.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 09:07
I think Eddie just doesn't think anyone else is up to it. Exeter have 3 good ones but none of them is demanding to be picked. The Wasps guys continue to fail their dress rehearsals and lack the kicking game. Wigglesworth is the option for now and the WC.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 09:27
Yes - but look at the players who Eddie has improved - Haskell, Robshaw, May, for example, and then someone like Brown who he values, but is generally regarded as being at the low end of the skill set that many people would expect of an international back .. like the ability to hold the ball in two hands for example. Surely Robson has enough about him in that sense?

I've always thought it would be interesting to know what Eddie could have done with players like Ben Morgan and Twelvetrees, for example, if he'd decided to include them. Flawed players who - on the face of it - had the equipment for top-level rugby.

Surely a coach's job is, in part, to look at the materials they've got and a/ improve them, and b/ mould the team to an extent based on what's available?

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 09:30
Although players come in and out, Eddie's selections are very consistent around the structure of the team. I like it.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 09:33
The examples you give there Opti are all players with a fair bit of experience at international level, not up and coming - who is to say he can't do what you've identified with someone with the experience and reputation at the top of the club game, like Wigglesworth?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 09:49
He probably can gaz - but Wigglesworth wil be 36 by the time the WC comes round. If there were a crisis nearer the time then Wigglesworth could come in. The experience he gains in the mean time will be neither here nor there. Eddie won't learn anything about Wigglesworth on Saturday, and Wigglesworth won't learn anything about rugby.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 09:56
Has Ben Spencer fallen off the radar or is he injured at the moment?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 10:52
Eddie has done much to revive England's fortunes. He has a knack of getting more out of the players than they have shown before, and, has shown them, if they improve and willingly accept the way he wants the side to play, is consistent in his selection and shows trust in them even when their club form is not the best. JJ is a prime example of this. His play in a struggling Bath side has not been brilliant for an experienced international but EJ has stuck with him.

However, for once, many question his selection and future replacement of his sides scrum half, a vital position in the side. Surely he should be looking to the future, and although a slight risk, be blooding and giving one of the younger players a start. I would go with Robson or Spencer, with either Maunder or Townsend in the squad.

I suppose looking around the 12 Prem sides, there a many overseas players at 9 in the starting XV's which is slowing the development of home grown guys. This may need to be addressed or we will end up like France with too many foreign players in vital play maker roles.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 11:14
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
shipwrecked
Bet Tigers are pleased!

The Dark Site are reasonably philosophical about it. I imagine it's because it cannot possibly be Lancaster's fault. Altho Wils will find a way.

I too was surprised by the Dark Site's reaction to it. No moaning about how the internationals, sorry, "invitationals" have ruined their own. I think it's because Youngs was playing poorly, so they don't mind so much

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 11:24
I think the decision should be about who is the best player to cover the rest of the 6N. That may well not be Wigglesworth, but I wouldn't try to actually develop anyone during a 6N.

There is a summer tour of SA and the AIs to come for that.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 11:34
I think Eddie has been playing mind-games a bit with the 9s and was hoping one would respond. It has not happened, so he goes back to Wigglesworth.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 11:34
The summer tour results and the AI against the ABs are going to be a better indication of our World Cup prospects than a home game against Wales, who are missing their own first choice scrum-half and 5-6 other first choice players.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 11:37
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
shipwrecked
Bet Tigers are pleased!

The Dark Site are reasonably philosophical about it. I imagine it's because it cannot possibly be Lancaster's fault. Altho Wils will find a way.

I would guess its more that it looked like he had done himself more than 4 months damage. It looked pretty horrible, its no exaggeration to say that players have had to retire from things like that - as WT says, he was 'lucky' given the circumstances.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
06 February, 2018 11:58
Never a good sign when the TV only show a distant replay and only once.... Hate those replays!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
08 February, 2018 09:59
Have to say pleased that JJ is back for Saturday but also slightly worried, hope there is no complacency!

Teo and Underhill on the bench, worried for Opti's head as Wigglesworth joins them there.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
08 February, 2018 11:39
I respect Opti's opinions immensely but actually I can't think of any better English qualified and fit 9 than Wigglesworth to come off the bench if we need to close out or to chase the game

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
08 February, 2018 11:46
Quote:
gaz59
I respect Opti's opinions immensely but actually I can't think of any better English qualified and fit 9 than Wigglesworth to come off the bench if we need to close out or to chase the game

Close out, fair enough. Chase? Not so much - he's not exactly going to be a Care-type finisher is he?

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: 6Nations matches
08 February, 2018 17:35
Quote:
shipwrecked
Have to say pleased that JJ is back for Saturday but also slightly worried, hope there is no complacency!
Teo and Underhill on the bench, worried for Opti's head as Wigglesworth joins them there.

So if the match goes to plan Opti should pre book himself an HIA around 18:15 hrs on Saturday.

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