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BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Skills coach?
08 February, 2018 20:04
Sam Vesty seems to have turned himself into a decent backs / skills coach. I understand that he started his coaching journey at Frome a few years back and more recently of course was the skills coach for the England tour to Argentina.

Given our lack of basic skills under Darren Edwards and his current role as first team coach, I do wonder whether it would be time to consider adding someone new to the team. Could the newly unemployed Vesty, having left Worcs, bring something more to the table, despite his relative lack of experience?

(Now sits back and waits for plenty of ‘ground the ball’ comments)

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
08 February, 2018 20:29
Just before we pile into the skills coach convo have we appointed our French defence coach yet?

As for a skills coach are there funds for that I wonder, seeing as we haven't replace Tabai Matson I am not sure the club would go that far. Its a great idea Matt, all you have to do is convince the club!

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
08 February, 2018 22:37
On the simple basis that in a match you either have the ball or not, if I owned a club it would be structured as follows:-

DoR
Attack coach
Defence coach
Backs skills
Forwards skills

That way clear responsibilities are known, minimum overlap.

DoR sets the tone, recruits, plans.

Coaches work towards the next match and analyse the last one, each works with all 15/23 players together only at the phase of the game they are interested in.

The skills staff spend sessions during the week on improving every squad individual at being able to implement what the coaches need but step back on match days.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 07:28
Sounds as if you have the right idea. Maybe you should apply (Sm100)

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 07:51
Way too binary, the game has transformed from the backs do this and the forwards do this

Identify the key areas of the game and the breakdown would be top of my list, followed by kick-chase then work out who has best skill set and coaching style to get that right for all players irrespective of what number shirt on their back

Some coaches will have a composite JD and it doesn't matter what job title you have others, like goal-kicking may be specialists with just that as their focus

In truth it is probably what actually happens at the top clubs and the job titles of skills, backs or whatever coach is just a label for us to hang on to

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 08:00
I vote Flouw as future breakdown coach!

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 08:10
But that then raises the thorny old question of whether the experts in the process can coach others to be experts in that process

Guscott, for example was a world class, gifted centre but you wouldn't want him anywhere the coaching paddock above minis, he simply can't communicate to enable others to learn something that comes so naturally to him

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 08:59
Quote:
gaz59
Way too binary, the game has transformed from the backs do this and the forwards do this

If you read again Matt you will see I would get the coaches working with the whole team whether in defence or attack so you have missed the point slightly. As regards skills I don't recall too many 10s lifting at line outs or locks running around on the loop but I accept some skills are common.

BTW, Attwood for Head of Player Engagement?

Too soon?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 09:05
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
gaz59
Way too binary, the game has transformed from the backs do this and the forwards do this

If you read again Matt you will see I would get the coaches working with the whole team whether in defence or attack so you have missed the point slightly. As regards skills I don't recall too many 10s lifting at line outs or locks running around on the loop but I accept some skills are common.

BTW, Attwood for Head of Player Engagement?

Too soon?

Wasn't me who said it, was Gaz59!

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 09:12
Oh yeah, sorry Matt.

So, if you read again Gaz... Oh can't be bothered to type it again.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 09:53
Interesting piece in the Guardian earlier this week about Ford/Farrell - reckons that one of the reasons why Eddie hasn't appointed a specific backs coach is that George and Faz are, effectively, coaching the backs. Of course, not every team is blessed with two rugby professors like those two, but there's an awful lot of coaches out there dreaming stuff up in order to justify their existence.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 10:02
Quote:
Optimist
Interesting piece in the Guardian earlier this week about Ford/Farrell - reckons that one of the reasons why Eddie hasn't appointed a specific backs coach is that George and Faz are, effectively, coaching the backs. Of course, not every team is blessed with two rugby professors like those two, but there's an awful lot of coaches out there dreaming stuff up in order to justify their existence.

Interesting, so that brings England backs up to a certain level, but given Eddies penchant for bringing in outside ideas where does that input come from?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 10:04
I'm sure that George & Faz would be as sponge-like as anyone if/when Eddie brings in someone really interesting and leftfield.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 11:49
He's also not allowed to hire Glenn Ella full time, as his staff have to be English. So using the players like this allows him to bring the likes of Glenn in anytime he wants without stepping on the toes of an official attack coach.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
09 February, 2018 16:04
I remember Vesty being highlighted by other players as one of the most skilled players in the squad when he was playing for us. Whether this was during training or our gameplan didn't give the opportunity for him to really show it, I don't know.

Also, I note the upturn in certain skill sets that coincided with Darren Edwards' appointment, such as Banners' aerial skills and others I've forgotten. I believe they changed the approach to focus on certain areas of an individual's own skill set rather than trying to force new areas to someone's existing game - jack of all trades, and all that. I wouldn't blame the dropped balls and other basics necessarily on him as they should be part of a player's fundamentals and seem more down to brain drain during specific games or more of a squad-not-firing malaise.

 
Hamptonite
Hamptonite (IP Logged)

Re: Skills coach?
11 February, 2018 10:47
According to today’s TRP, Sam could be heading to Saints


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