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MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 21:35
Farrell is currently running at a tackle completion level of ~33%.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 21:43
That's because he's no longer allowed to tackle above the shoulder!

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 22:20
Quote:
hasta
Farrell is currently running at a tackle completion level of ~33%.
he runs a pretty low percentage with Sarries too. With the it's a tactic, the FH rushes up to the outside shoulder of his opposite number to try to turn him back towards the forwards or force a mistake.
It doesn't work from 12.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that this tactic from Sarries is them making a virtue of the player's flaw, as in, they couldn't stop Faz rushing out of the line, so they shape up to assume it'll happen anyway, and then encourage it to happen (I don't recall them ever using Charlie in this role). For England, it mostly leaves a dog-leg in the defence.
He's getting better at not doing it, just like he's getting better at running lines that should be second nature to an IC; but it's still indiscipline totally at odds to the media hype.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 22:42
There's low and there's 33%.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 22:47
That also assumes the back row are fast enough to fill the gap! Didn't work for the Hugh jones try, especially as GF had popped round to see what was happening on the blind side!

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 07:35
Wilson wins his fair share of turnovers at Newcastle but he was looked at on tour and has not featured since. What happened to those masterclass lessons with George Smith?

 
Trev's Big Tackle
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 09:29
Young Jack Willis at Wasps is looking promising too. [url=https://youtu.be/W8_Yeb31daU][/url]

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 10:43
Watched Jack Willis a couple of weeks ago, can't remember who Wasps were playing, but I do remember him turning the ball over at least three times and winning penalties at the breakdown. Looks a really promising talent.

 
graham_t
graham t (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 10:45
I still don't understand why Hartley is captain. Apart from anything else (and he didn't seem to be able to galvanise the team on Saturday) games are frequently won or lost in the final quarter when he isn't even on the pitch. I think that a captain should be a player expected to play the full 80, though knowing Eddie he might decide to create an "impact captain" or some other weirdness.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 10:55
Could EJ start a new trend of starting your captain on the bench?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 11:01
Thought we already tried that?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 11:04
That's a good point graham. Hartley is becoming a bit like a Club captain - recognised for their contribution off the pitch as much as on it. Maybe Hartley will end up as part of the coaching team at RWC19?

If Jamie George had 20 starts under his belt (and Cowan-Dickie, for example, 20 caps from the bench), England might have lost a couple more than two games under Eddie, but may now be better placed to win the World Cup.

Same with Brown vs Watson (or Nowell/Daly at 15), same with Cole vs Sinckler, same with Haskell & Robshaw though I can't honestly say who should have been at 7 prior to Underhill becoming available.

I've loved Eddie's results - most of all the tours to Australia & NZ and the AI results vs SH. But i'm disappointed that he has turned out to be such a conservative selector, such a conservative gameplan, and that he hasn't been sufficiently arrogant to use some games, Italy for example, to test England's strength in depth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2018 11:05 by Optimist.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 11:19
Taking your captain off at a critical point in the game.

There goes the leadership and example that is needed to turn things round.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 11:36
I don't think the tackling stats are particularly fair to Farrell. He may slip off a few but he still tries to make more than the rest of the backline. Joseph only made 3 all game against Scotland and I won't even go into Ford...

Farrell is often also one of the first people on the scene during kick chases as well I have noticed. It's never particularly easy to make the first up hit on these international standard back three players in that circumstance unless you literally arrive on the scene as they catch it which is rare. Can't really discredit him therefore for missing a few tackles in those circumstances too as more often than not in international rugby they beat the first man as their momentum is going too quickly in one direction.



Adopted players: 2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 11:46
Again, there's missing a few tackles and there's missing 2/3rds of your tackles. Barritt does not miss 2/3rds of his tackles. George Ford does not miss 2/3rds of his tackles. JJ misses almost none of his tackles. Yes, the defense style allows for this a little by looking at the effective outcome, but if you're missing 2/3rds it means you're definitely not making dominant hits. I'm not saying Farrell's a bad player, nor would I drop him, but it's a little concerning.

I also disagree that Farrell is usually first up on kick chase - it's almost always Watson or May.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 12:03
Farrell and Watson might be the only England players whose names would be on every single pub starting XV up and down the country. Even Itoje has hit a wall and might benefit from a game off the bench. Eddie's 'reconditioning' programme should have been in the build up to the Scotland game, not this one.

 
Ian E
Ian E (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 12:18
[www.bbc.co.uk] Ryan Wilson cited

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 12:32
Quote:
tmc1963
Quote:
Ian E
Doesn’t excuse fingers in eye - I wonder if there will be any citings after this? Will Sam’s Yellow prevent any further action?

There were no fingers in the eye as the replay showed quite clearly. Underhill will be cited as it was a red card offence.

Well that's 0 from 2.

Will be interesting to see if we ever find out about the tunnel fracas?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 12:47
Quote:
Substitute
Quote:
tmc1963
Quote:
Ian E
Doesn’t excuse fingers in eye - I wonder if there will be any citings after this? Will Sam’s Yellow prevent any further action?

There were no fingers in the eye as the replay showed quite clearly. Underhill will be cited as it was a red card offence.

Well that's 0 from 2.

Will be interesting to see if we ever find out about the tunnel fracas?

Owen Farrell is psychic and he knew that he was going to poke Hughes in the face in the game!

I was pleased that Hughes didn't winge at Nigel about the facial contact, but also pleased the citing was picked up. He was obviously fired up for the game which worked for them.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 13:41
I think EJ wants to go the the WC with a lot of caps. The side is not so different from the last WC against Australia.

Brown; Watson, Joseph, Barritt, May; Farrell, B Youngs; Marler, T Youngs, Cole, Launchbury, Parling, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan. With Lawes, Wigglesworth, Ford, Kruis and Billy V also around and Hartley banned.

What we are missing is the X-Factor players (Jason Robinson types) to turn us into World Cup winners. Daly has been missed, Itoje has come through but we could do with some more.

I had assumed EJ would stick with these lot but 2 more losses and all plans go out of the window.

Who is burning it up in the Premiership and asking to be picked? Don Armand??

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 13:50
But Eddie doesn't really like x-factor players.

'Jones is on record as saying that his ideal team includes 13 players who will rate seven out of 10 in every match, because “if we have that, we’re going to be in the game”. The other two are what he calls his “x-factor players”, men who will play at “nine out of 10 performance then the next week may drop to a four.” Only, “you can’t have more than two of those, because otherwise you get too much variation in your performance.”

Which confirms everything that has disappointed me about Jones. He has even turned some of his x factor players - Ford, Joseph, George - into ex x factor players. With Watson and May as Eddie's nailed-on 2 x-factor players, they know they can't take a single risk or they'll be on the door marked Cipriani.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 15:00
Quote:
tmc1963
Quote:
Ian E
Doesn’t excuse fingers in eye - I wonder if there will be any citings after this? Will Sam’s Yellow prevent any further action?

There were no fingers in the eye as the replay showed quite clearly. Underhill will be cited as it was a red card offence.

No reports of his citing yet.

PG

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 15:11
Today, this thread, 12.18pm PGT.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 15:17
SW

Not--"Underhill will be cited as it was a red card offence"

PG

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 16:00
I thought IanE's original comment was about Wilson attacking Hughes, nothing to do with Underhill??
Wilson's citing is explained in the Beeb link [www.bbc.co.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 16:08
Quote:
Big Dog
I don't think the tackling stats are particularly fair to Farrell. He may slip off a few but he still tries to make more than the rest of the backline. Joseph only made 3 all game against Scotland and I won't even go into Ford...
Farrell is often also one of the first people on the scene during kick chases as well I have noticed. It's never particularly easy to make the first up hit on these international standard back three players in that circumstance unless you literally arrive on the scene as they catch it which is rare. Can't really discredit him therefore for missing a few tackles in those circumstances too as more often than not in international rugby they beat the first man as their momentum is going too quickly in one direction.
You are aware that people have access to these stats aren't you? Although, you're not alone in getting the stats wrong here - Farrell did not miss 2/3 of his tackles.
[www.espn.co.uk]
Farrell did indeed try to make more tackles than any other back; he attempted 9 of them; missing 4; whilst May and Watson both attempted 8 - a whole 1 tackle fewer (what a work-horse that Inside Centre must be in defence huh?; they both completed more tackles than Farrell did, despite attempting fewer (6/8).
JJ actually had a poor day with the tackling; only making 4 of his 6; though it should be noted that teams really don't target JJ, especially when they have the option of attacking the defensive dog-leg that Farrell has just left.
You're right though - the less said about Ford's defence the better - especially for those who wish to portray him in a negative light. - he nailed all 5 of his tackles - wow, you mean he made just as many tackles as "defensive titan" Owen? yup, that's right; mostly against big blokes sent down his channel, and he got all of them.

Quite honestly though, Farrell's missed tackle count is unlikely to come from too many kick-chases; but from getting excited, and rushing out of the defensive line (he's getting better; but he's far from "ice man" when it comes to discipline).



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 16:09
It was tcm 1963's prediction that Underhill "will be" cited.

PG

 
Ian E
Ian E (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
27 February, 2018 18:39
Thanks PG yes as you’ve correctly stated - hoping Underhill won’t be cited. Thought Ryan Wilson might be.

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
28 February, 2018 14:39
[www.bbc.co.uk] Scotland and England cleared over 'Tunnel clash'.

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
06 March, 2018 13:12
Underhill out injured against France apparently.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
06 March, 2018 13:46
Quote:
Rawce
Underhill out injured against France apparently.
Nowell too, with reports that his is a season-ender


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
06 March, 2018 14:11
Quote:
Rawce
Underhill out injured against France apparently.

I so hope it's a minor soft tissue problem rather than part of HIA protocols!

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
06 March, 2018 14:28
According to ESPN it's a toe injury. Shame - I think he would have started.

Hartley a doubt too.

We may see 3 changes:

George at hooker
Simmonds at openside
Daly on the wing

PG

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
06 March, 2018 15:47
PG - who gets dropped, May, Watson or Brown?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
06 March, 2018 16:18
[www.bathchronicle.co.uk]

Mercer AND Underhill injured. Great.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
07 March, 2018 08:42
DB

Personally I would like to see Watson at Full Back.
Eddie will probably stay loyal to Brown - so for me may gives way. His judgement was below par in the Calcutta Cup in my view.


PG

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
07 March, 2018 09:23
Rainy weather scheduled in Paris. Away match to a physical France side. Chances of Brown being dropped - zero. Wouldn't be surprised to see him start with Wigglesworth and Farrell + Te'o, with Haskell coming in at 7. Fight them with physicality for 60 minutes, and then a return to the 'finishers' strategy with Care, Ford, Simmonds and Itoje or Lawes off the bench. I could go with that.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
07 March, 2018 14:00
Interesting that Gatland has made 10 changes to his starting line-up this w/e. I wish Eddie had used the opportunity against Italy to be a bit more experimental. When you're Warren Gatland's more conservative SH rival coach it might be time to loosen up a bit.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
07 March, 2018 14:21
Yeah, he's made those changes once Wales can't win the 6N though. Rather than in the first game. I'm not saying some experimentation couldn't have been done, but there is context here.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
07 March, 2018 14:28
I am OK with the selection approach, this is a tournament, the AIs are not so that is the time for blooding players or ideas. Games against SH teams may well mean stronger opposition but those teams are out of season and often experiment too.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
08 March, 2018 09:18
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Brown (and JJ) dropped!

Starting XV

15 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby 31 caps),
14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 32 caps),
13 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 11 caps),
12 Owen Farrell (Saracens 56 caps) C,
11 Elliot Daly (Wasps 16 caps),
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 43 caps),
9 Danny Care (Harlequins 79 caps),
1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens 47 caps) VC,
2 Jamie George (Saracens 23 caps),
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 80 caps),
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 50 caps),
5 Maro Itoje (Saracens 17 caps),
6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 64 caps),
7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 62 caps),
8 Nathan Hughes (Wasps 13 caps).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2018 09:20 by BathMatt53.

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