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DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 18:35
I don't recall ever seeing Nigel have a worse game, he was as bad as England and a major factor in that result.

Scotland now world beaters no doubt.


Eddie needs to look at his back row and wave good bye to Brown.

 
Chuzwozza
Chuzwozza (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 18:37
Quote:
Dorset Boy
I don't recall ever seeing Nigel have a worse game, he was as bad as England and a major factor in that result.
Scotland now world beaters no doubt.


Eddie needs to look at his back row and wave good bye to Brown.

This. Absolutely this. What on earth did I just watch?

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 18:38
Much as EJ has plenty of credit, some chickens came home to roost today, particularly around his refusal to look at any Scrum halves beyond Care and Youngs, his blind loyalty to Brown and the shoehorning of locks into the back row.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 18:43
Classy interview by Jones, stupid questions by the interviewer and classless booing of him by the crowd.

Scotland are a good team and being a quarter Scottish myself I am OK with that but they had lots of help today.

Now the press will give England a good kicking which I hate. When anyone else loses they just had a bad day.

You would think Scotland had won the RWC looking at the celebrations.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 18:54
Wives and girlfriends now on the pitch to celebrate. If England did this....

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 19:24
Scotland deserved to win & England didn’t look anything like potential World Cup winners today & didn’t really in the last two games. Whilst part of me feels happy for Scotland as they are a very talented team I feel they have a substantial number of crass & ignorant supporters who don’t know how to behave & the hatred of England is unedifying.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 19:31
First Calcutta Cup in 10 years, can hardly blame them.

Scotland the better team for me.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 19:49
Hey ho it's no big deal as the only important game today was in Bath.

Although it's embarrassing for England to lose to the sweaties at anything. Bit worrying for Eddie to lose to World Cup no hopers so close to 2019.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Trawling
Trawling (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 19:53
Scotland took points when they were on top.

We got on the wrong side of the referee.

The better side won.

BUT

This is a tournament, if Scotland win it, well done, if they finish below England it doesn't count for much.

Nige gets away with a lot of inaccuracy and always has. Your choice - Nige or Wayne?

 
ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 20:52
Quote:
Dorset Boy
England's back row way too slow.
Scotland 8 should be off for attempted eye gouge on Hughes.

3rd try for the Scots immediately after. Good bye England - going to be 22-6.

How about the choke hold he was under?

 
Ian E
Ian E (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 21:03
Doesn’t excuse fingers in eye - I wonder if there will be any citings after this? Will Sam’s Yellow prevent any further action?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 21:32
Good grief - I'm English, so god knows what reading this thread must be like for a Scot. England were stuffed - incapable of playing when the ref actually likes rugby and the other team is able to dictate the pace. A couple of decisions went England's way for sure, but boy were we due to run out of luck.

Finn Russell made George Ford look like an under-18 player. They matched us for physicality, which was essentially all England had.

40% better than when Eddie took over 2 years ago? My ass.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 21:34
Sam Underhill made a difference when he came on, the starting back row had weight and power but were all a bit slow and samey.
For SU to be called a breakdown specialist just highlighted how poor England were at the breakdown.
6,7,8 and 9 need looking at. I hope Eddie tries something different v France as we are running out of time for the RWC.

I feel all this putting locks in the back row and swapping the back row around is confusing roles.

Are they there just to protect Ford? If so teams are surely going to exploit this.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 21:39
Yes Opti Ford tries really hard but on his own he can't change a game, he needs the BR and Farrell for that. Have to say Farrell came back better in the second half but Huw Jones did him up in the first half.

 
Substitute
Substitute (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 21:53
That team was an 'in-form' busted flush. I'm not surprised Sam Underhill made a difference.

English rugby is an oddity - it pays the price for it's depth. Until it dispenses of one-hit wonders (cough, cough... Hughes, Simmonds) we won't win a world cup let a alone a 6N.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 22:11
So we now just need Ireland to beat Scotland, and then lose to England, and we can still take the Raeburn Shield on holiday to South Africa with us



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 22:52
For the second time the Teo option was unconvincing.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 22:53
Turnovers conceded cost England.
Strange refereeing at the breakdown by Nige. Neh mind.

 
ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
24 February, 2018 23:29
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Ah well....Scotland can enjoy their once a decade win...

Bitter much?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 00:12
Did Ford take the field? He did absolutely nothing of note, Russell made him look totally inadequate and what we are missing. No skill and no pace.

The England back row was not at the races, and England like Bath, never cleared out and no aggression.

If that England side are 40% fitter. I am a monkey's uncle. What hype and rubbish. Has the Jones bubble been burst.

As for winning a World Cup, don't make me laugh. Any of the Southern Hemisphere sides will beat us because they will learn from how Scotland did by playing at pace and intensity which England had no answer for.

Hope Underhill doesn't get cited!

Thank heavens I have a Bath win to celebrate!!!

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 00:46
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Did Ford take the field? He did absolutely nothing of note, Russell made him look totally inadequate and what we are missing. No skill and no pace.
The England back row was not at the races, and England like Bath, never cleared out and no aggression.

If that England side are 40% fitter. I am a monkey's uncle. What hype and rubbish. Has the Jones bubble been burst.

As for winning a World Cup, don't make me laugh. Any of the Southern Hemisphere sides will beat us because they will learn from how Scotland did by playing at pace and intensity which England had no answer for.

Hope Underhill doesn't get cited!

Thank heavens I have a Bath win to celebrate!!!

I think it's becoming clearer by the game that George, at least at international level, is a flat track bully. Add in his limited defence and this is a real problem for England. I think he is a luxury they can't afford. Maybe as a finisher in a losing game but not as a starter.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 06:29
It is a blessing in disguise and just what we needed. Those losses we had in SCW's time made us stronger and I see this doing the same thing. The main thing to take out of it is the back row issues. Ireland and Scotland have both taken us to the cleaners with their style of back rower. Lawes and Itoje are good 2nd rows who can cover in an emergency but they are not the solution in the back row. Time to look for one or two more Flankers. Experiment against France in the back row.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 07:43
Quote:
Optimist

Finn Russell made George Ford look like an under-18 player. They matched us for physicality, which was essentially all England had.

40% better than when Eddie took over 2 years ago? My ass.

Some people have very short memories. Have they not won 2 consecutive 6 Nations, have they not beaten Australia away, have they not had an incredible run unbeaten? All that was with Ford playing at 10 & how did Russell play in the last two matches? How many games has Ford played like that? I agree, our form seem to have dipped but please don’t exaggerate.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 08:03
When your breakdown is that bad, then the attacking game is not really relevant. We could not go through the phases, as we were getting turned over. You can hardly blame Ford for that. Time to look at Wilson or Curry in the backrow. Simmons looks like he might be a starter now on the flank once fit. Underhill has all the physical parts but is he the answer?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 08:37
Quote:
cb2
It is a blessing in disguise and just what we needed. Those losses we had in SCW's time made us stronger and I see this doing the same thing. The main thing to take out of it is the back row issues. Ireland and Scotland have both taken us to the cleaners with their style of back rower. Lawes and Itoje are good 2nd rows who can cover in an emergency but they are not the solution in the back row. Time to look for one or two more Flankers. Experiment against France in the back row.

Absolutely. All successful teams have to lose on the way.

Perhaps this will make Eddie look more critically at what many have been saying all along - are Brown and Hartley worth it? Can the 2nd row also play back row? What do we do at 12 when Ford is under pressure?

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 08:51
The game was lost in the backrow battle in the first half. Scotland turned ball over easily early on and Nigel then let them continue in the same way a ref often decides one scrum has superiority.

Eddie needs to find a ball winner at the breakdown, someone with some pace, and urgently.

I also think George is a much, much better player than Hartley.
Brown needs to be binned.
A younger, pacey 9 is needed - Wigglesworth is fine at closing out a game but not the 9 to chase a game.

Will be interesting to see if the attempted eye gouge is cited.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 08:53
Who’s exaggerating now BH!! I was only referring to yesterday’s game, not the entirety of George’s ouevre. But I think it’s undeniable that England got found out a bit yesterday. They’ve lived on the edge for quite a few of their wins. Winning while not playing well is an admirable quality, but it’s not as great a quality as winning playing well.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:01
Good demonstration of the vast Gulf between no. 1 and 2 ranked teams in the world.

NZ would never lose to that Scotland side wherever they played.

England have a long way to go to challenge for no. 1 spot.

But at the end of the day it's only the 6N and more importantly Bath won yesterday.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:04
Brown reverted to godawful can't pass/won't pass mode. Wigglesworth coming on to change the game is... not great.

Nige was frustratingly inconsistent yesterday, but not the reason England lost. Taking Ford off for Te'o was a bad call, should have been JJ making way.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:06
I don’t doubt that NZ are still number one by a mile, but yesterday’s result was squarely based on how brilliant Scotland were, not on how poor England were. I am full of admiration for them and for Gregor Townsend - a great Rugby romantic in a coaching world dominated by pick and go forwards.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:22
The thing about Ford is, if at the start of a game he isn't having a good game for any reason, he isn't going to for the rest of it, even if Farrel isn't having a great game as a 10 he's a big enough rough enough player to want to keep on the pitch. That doesn't apply to Ford.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:29
The way I see it, Farrell contributes so much more than Ford in organisation, tackling, goal kicking, etc. I just wonder if such an anonymous performance by Ford will be his last and will go with the direct running of T'eo at 12 and JJ at 13. Ford certainly didn't look anything like an international 10 yesterday.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:37
Quote:
Optimist
England.........They’ve lived on the edge for quite a few of their wins. Winning while not playing well is an admirable quality, but it’s not as great a quality as winning playing well.

Quite agree Optimist.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:38
Quote:
Optimist
I don’t doubt that NZ are still number one by a mile, but yesterday’s result was squarely based on how brilliant Scotland were, not on how poor England were. I am full of admiration for them and for Gregor Townsend - a great Rugby romantic in a coaching world dominated by pick and go forwards.

The Scotland side were excellent yesterday, but it begs the question,'How was the same team so thoroughly contained by the Welsh side?'

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:39
As much as Ford and Farrell work some great plays, I still think there’s something slightly emasculating about having two out and out fly halfs. It’s one thing to have a ‘second playmaker’ at 12, but I feel absolutely certain that both Ford and Faz would, in their perfect world, like to be playing 10, taking all the kicks and running the show. The nature of George’s time at Bath makes me strongly believe that he is at his magical best when he is the unchallenged boss.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:40
It was a scrappy game possession wise, no FH is going to look good in those games.

Look at the forwards in rucks and some odd inconsistency from Nige for the reasons.

What ball we got was slow and there was no space to work with. Scotland were a bit fortunate to get a lead and then defended very well.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:46
Quote:
Optimist
I don’t doubt that NZ are still number one by a mile, but yesterday’s result was squarely based on how brilliant Scotland were, not on how poor England were. I am full of admiration for them and for Gregor Townsend - a great Rugby romantic in a coaching world dominated by pick and go forwards.

I’m sorry to differ with your view again Optimist but surely in the Autumn NZ almost suffered the same fate only to be rescued by a score in the dying minutes? I don’t think Scotland played any better than they did yesterday.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 09:53
Been saying for a while that Farrell at 10 offers England so much more and Ford is a luxury that really doesn't work against the better teams now they have worked out how to nullify what he can do brilliantly and expose where he is so vulnerable

Ford - Eastmond - JJ was an electric combination for us until the top AP teams worked out how to beat it and then it was redundant

And Opti is spot on with Ford's need to be the top dog always running the show with the trade marks of a rugby pitch Napoleon

You can't build a successful top team around a flawed genius, no matter what the sport is. The weakness will always get exposed despite promising so much

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 10:11
So what would a different fly half have contributed yesterday that Ford didn't? Bearing in mind he had slow ball to work with. Did he miss a tackle somewhere in defence for any of their tries?

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 10:16
I fail to see how this game was lost because of Ford. It was individual errors and failure at the breakdown. May and Brown need to be replaced in the backs but the rest are our guys for the WC. The back row is the issue.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 10:22
Gavin Hastings saying Jones should be shell shocked and there is a big dent in his World Cup hopes. Typical Hastings comment, all about England losing rather than praising the Scottish forwards.

This is a much improved Scottish team who played too wide too soon against Wales and came a cropper.

They learnt from that and have improved. England will do the same after yesterday.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 10:38
Quote:
cb2
I fail to see how this game was lost because of Ford. It was individual errors and failure at the breakdown. May and Brown need to be replaced in the backs but the rest are our guys for the WC. The back row is the issue.

Where on earth has anyone suggested that CB? No England player enhanced their reputation yesterday. It was very much a collective failure by England, including Eddie Jones. But it wasn’t so much that they failed to perform on the day, as that Eddie has pinned his colours to physicality, power and aggression.and yesterday they met their match in wit and invention. Ford should be playing like Russell but Eddie has it in his mind that England teams just aren’t capable of playing fast and loose, which has been a bit of a disappointment to me. I thought a SH coach might actually bring some real inventiveness to England’s play. The results since Eddie took over from nearly-man Stuart Lancaster suggest to me that he has made England mentally stronger (no mean achievement), but not that he has made them significantly better at playing Rugby. The backs play that culminated in Brown chucking the ball into touch was so pedestrian it beggared belief. And if this seems a bit mealy-mouthed given the results England have achieved in the last 2 years, well I think as an England supporter, given the resources available to them, you are entitled to set the bar high when criticising the team.

 
terracehugger
terracehugger (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 10:48
Thank you optimist for proving we are not a load of technically expert and tunnel visioned hypocrites.
Scotland simply wanted it more.
Nigel universally rated as one of the best, until he officiates when England lose!

 
terracehugger
terracehugger (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 10:53
Quote:
Optimist
Good grief - I'm English, so god knows what reading this thread must be like for a Scot. England were stuffed - incapable of playing when the ref actually likes rugby and the other team is able to dictate the pace. A couple of decisions went England's way for sure, but boy were we due to run out of luck.
Finn Russell made George Ford look like an under-18 player. They matched us for physicality, which was essentially all England had.

40% better than when Eddie took over 2 years ago? My ass.

Thank you optimist for proving we are not a load of technically expert and tunnel visioned hypocrites.
Scotland simply wanted it more.
Nigel universally rated as one of the best, until he officiates when England lose!

 
sirtidychris
sirtidychris (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 11:04
England have been over trained by Eddie Jones, the players are in bits from constant rugby over the past 18months, including lions, internationals, Aviva weekly churn, flogged week in and out, then Jones puts them through the most intense training ever absolutely beasting them and everyone's surprised we are dead on our feet for the last two games. Scotland played well but England were knackered again, probably psychologically as well as physically. Eddie use this rest week to bloomin rest the players will you!

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 11:31
Owens didn't undo England - the breakdown did.


PG

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 11:40
Quote:
B4thB4ck
So what would a different fly half have contributed yesterday that Ford didn't? Bearing in mind he had slow ball to work with. Did he miss a tackle somewhere in defence for any of their tries?

My take on Ford is that we are compromising the back row to accommodate his 'diminished hit', I don't think he can change a game without other team components. Farrell had a really poor first half but improved in the second.

On the error front, I didn't see him miss a tackle but he did make some strange defensive decisions, for Jones try on their ball he chose to defend the blind side leaving Nathan Hughes to take his position inside Owen Farrell. Hughes wasn't even looking when Jones ran past him and Farrell.

But overall that wasn't the reason for losing and we didn't just lose it at the breakdown we were poor all round.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 12:07
All I can say is that I am glad some of you guys are not selecting the team. From day one some have been saying Ford shouldn’t be selected & yet we have gone on winning. We lose a game & again he is the main scapegoat. Fortunately EJ is his own man & appreciates what Ford has to offer in conjunction with Farrell. I agree there are other issues within the team e. g. full-back but EJ has to consider whether other names mentioned will do a better job & I trust his judgement.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 12:21
Quote:
Bath Hammer
From day one some have been saying Ford shouldn’t be selected & yet we have gone on winning. We lose a game & again he is the main scapegoat.

Not sure there is a lynch squad for Ford at all, Eddie has been looking for a plan B for some time for when he has a bad one but its not there.

Nothing wrong in questions being asked when his club are on the rack and we've had two weak international games.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 12:46
The options have been tried but Slade and Lowzowski did not seem like the answer. Teo and Tuilagi look like 13s, whilst Ford and Faz have beaten the SH and won all but one game together under EJ.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 14:58
Quote:
shipwrecked

Not sure there is a lynch squad for Ford at all, Eddie has been looking for a plan B for some time for when he has a bad one but its not there.
Not been reading this thread then....


"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 15:07
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
shipwrecked

Not sure there is a lynch squad for Ford at all, Eddie has been looking for a plan B for some time for when he has a bad one but its not there.
Not been reading this thread then....

Point me to a post in this thread blaming Ford for our loss against Scotland then.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 15:59
Well tiggers playing very well with Toomua at 10

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 16:13
Bob and opti have posted over and over again on this thread about George, despite him not being the problem at all. It would be quicker and easier to ignore of you just posted "we don't like ford" over and over again.

Te'o isn't the answer to a problem we don't actually have.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 16:34
Dan, no-one is saying that! In fact if I looked hard enough on this board I could probably find evidence to the converse of that argument!

We lost that game at the breakdown, or don't you agree?

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 16:36
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
shipwrecked

Not sure there is a lynch squad for Ford at all, Eddie has been looking for a plan B for some time for when he has a bad one but its not there.
Not been reading this thread then....

Point me to a post in this thread blaming Ford for our loss against Scotland then.
Er you reckon there's no lynch mob out for Ford despite posts on here saying he's a flat track bully, goes missing in defence, is a luxury player etc. etc.


"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 16:53
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
shipwrecked

Not sure there is a lynch squad for Ford at all, Eddie has been looking for a plan B for some time for when he has a bad one but its not there.
Not been reading this thread then....

Point me to a post in this thread blaming Ford for our loss against Scotland then.
Er you reckon there's no lynch mob out for Ford despite posts on here saying he's a flat track bully, goes missing in defence, is a luxury player etc. etc.

Wow oversensitve or what! That's not a lynch mob. They are comments, as for my comment, look at the video! I didn't say he was to blame but he might have made a mistake!

I'm one of Ford's strongest supporters but he might actually be a touch off form.

I'll quote myself, its a comment not a lynching.


Quote:
shipwrecked
On the error front, I didn't see him miss a tackle but he did make some strange defensive decisions, for Jones try on their ball he chose to defend the blind side leaving Nathan Hughes to take his position inside Owen Farrell. Hughes wasn't even looking when Jones ran past him and Farrell.

But overall that wasn't the reason for losing and we didn't just lose it at the breakdown we were poor all round.

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 17:06
No. Not over sensitivite. Just calling you out on the idea that there's no 'lynchmob' as you put it for Ford, even though, as I've already pointed out to you, there's been a fair few posts laying into him. This despite the fact the game was comprehensively lost up front particularly at the break down.

It's almost as if some people are using the loss to scapegoat Ford, given he can do the square root of FA about how England's back row perform....



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 17:39
"Dan, no-one is saying that! In fact if I looked hard enough on this board I could probably find evidence to the converse of that argument! "

What arguement? That Bob and opti aren't repeatedly having a dig at ford? That Te'o isn't the answer?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 17:53
Everyone else - please ignore the following, because it's a bit petty.

This is for Dan - the sum total of my comments about George Ford on this thread. Any chance you can apologise for making me waste my time on this?

Dan: “Bob and opti have posted over and over again on this thread about George, despite him not being the problem at all. It would be quicker and easier to ignore of you just posted "we don't like ford" over and over again.”


Opti: “Finn Russell made George Ford look like an under-18 player.”

Opti, in reference to above: “I was only referring to yesterday’s game, not the entirety of George’s oeuvre"

Opti: “As much as Ford and Farrell work some great plays, I still think there’s something slightly emasculating about having two out and out fly halfs. It’s one thing to have a ‘second playmaker’ at 12, but I feel absolutely certain that both Ford and Faz would, in their perfect world, like to be playing 10, taking all the kicks and running the show. The nature of George’s time at Bath makes me strongly believe that he is at his magical best when he is the unchallenged boss.”

cb2: “I fail to see how this game was lost because of Ford”

Opti: “Where on earth has anyone suggested that CB? No England player enhanced their reputation yesterday. It was very much a collective failure by England”

“Ford should be playing like Russell but Eddie has it in his mind that England teams just aren’t capable of playing fast and loose”

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 18:27
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
shipwrecked

Not sure there is a lynch squad for Ford at all, Eddie has been looking for a plan B for some time for when he has a bad one but its not there.
Not been reading this thread then....

Point me to a post in this thread blaming Ford for our loss against Scotland then.
Er you reckon there's no lynch mob out for Ford despite posts on here saying he's a flat track bully, goes missing in defence, is a luxury player etc. etc.

As those were all observations from my post, I'll pick up the cudgels.

George Ford is a gifted rugby player but, like all the others, his game has strengths and weaknesses. The question is whether his flaws can be compensated for within a 15 man team or whether there are better choices. Ford has proven that his "flat track" includes pretty much everyone except New Zealand and we're waiting to find out if it goes that high. But... behind a matched or retreating pack George does not manage a game well. We saw that when he played for us and, if you read their board, the Tigs fans (who are a collectively good judge of a player), have similar suspicions. So the question is whether England can guarantee Ford front foot ball. If yes, by all means play him and drool over his skills but, if no, I'd he looking for another solution. I do not think England will consistently beat New Zealand with George at 10 - and that is really what the target is.

Farrell, Lozowski and Slade all solve the defensive problem at 10 and the first 2 are genuine 10s, quite capable of running a game. Slade is, in my view, the most gifted of the lot but seems to be a) unlucky with timing of injuries and b) not really a 10.

Farrell is also a dominant and visible leader in a team that does not have many and whose captain is increasingly under pressure for his shirt.

So, running out in Japan in 2 years time, Jamie George at 2, Faz at 10, May at 11, Tuilagi at 12, Slade at 13, Nowell at 14, Watson at 15.

If you're going to do that, you've got to start giving those players game time together in those positions now.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 18:43
"Any chance you can apologise for making me waste my time on this? "

I've not made you do anything. Why would you post something then ask for an apology for doing it? I don't really think Ford's performance was worth much of a comment one way or another so even with reflection your posts seem over the top.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 18:47
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
No. Not over sensitivite. Just calling you out on the idea that there's no 'lynchmob' as you put it for Ford, even though, as I've already pointed out to you, there's been a fair few posts laying into him. This despite the fact the game was comprehensively lost up front particularly at the break down.
It's almost as if some people are using the loss to scapegoat Ford, given he can do the square root of FA about how England's back row perform....

I don't accept that Ford is being scapegoated over this game. Others can answer for themselves and they probably will.

Is this sequence a Kahn lynching?

Quote:
Toast and Marmite
We are generating quick first phase which is being totally negated by KF at pretty much every breakdown

Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Penalty for Bath - both sides look far better ball in hand than defensively. (So stop kicking the ball away KF!)

Quote:
Toast and Marmite
KF killing any momentum again

Quote:
Toast and Marmite
FFS Khan is killing us...too slow and box kicks awful

Off course its not.

I don't see that the comments in this thread are so different. It's just non abusive opinions on the loss.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 18:48
JoetF - Tuilagi at 12? Seriously? What planet are you inhabiting. First he hasn't put 7 matches together in about 3 seasons. Second his distribution skills are on a par with Mike Brown. Third defensively he isn't great. Fourth he is not an intelligent player.

Slade is yet to prove he is an international, let alone a better one than JJ.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 19:03
Quote:
Dorset Boy
JoetF - Tuilagi at 12? Seriously? What planet are you inhabiting. First he hasn't put 7 matches together in about 3 seasons. Second his distribution skills are on a par with Mike Brown. Third defensively he isn't great. Fourth he is not an intelligent player.
Slade is yet to prove he is an international, let alone a better one than JJ.

I would humbly suggest that JJ has not been playing well, either for us or England, for a year and that he was all over the place defensively yesterday. Slade was excellent on the Argentina tour in the summer. Yes, it was Argentina but you play what's in front of you.

My starting point is that we are planning to play New Zealand on the final of the RWC in Japan in 2019. Tuilagi will have had 2 seasons game time by then. Of course, if he's injured then you have to make other plans. Tuilagi is not there to distribute, that's what Slade is for. He is there to punch huge holes through the New Zealand inside defence. Te'o might be able to do it but Tuilagi has already done so and that will put questions in the mind of Hansen and his coaches.

Your point about Tuilagi's defence is well made. To an extent, Manu is a one trick pony but it's a trick with no solution so far. Ma'a Nonu built a career on it.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 19:24
I'd say that there is practically no criticism of George as such, more a question-mark over whether England would be better off with Farrell at 10. Guscott and the rest of the panel were absolutely drooling over Faz ahead of the Scotland game, and rightly so - he is, basically, the best rugby player in the country. Questioning whether George is as good as Faz is the opposite of damming with faint praise (praising with faint criticism?).

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 19:44
Quote:
Optimist
I'd say that there is practically no criticism of George as such, more a question-mark over whether England would be better off with Farrell at 10. Guscott and the rest of the panel were absolutely drooling over Faz ahead of the Scotland game, and rightly so - he is, basically, the best rugby player in the country. Questioning whether George is as good as Faz is the opposite of damming with faint praise (praising with faint criticism?).

Oh come on, you are quite literally trying to lynch George Ford!!!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 20:35
Yep - having quite literally, personally ended George's career, i'm now turning my attention to Eddie.

Interesting (or not) to note that, if England lose to either France or Ireland - both results entirely possible - England will have lost more than one game in the 6Ns since 2010 when Johnno presided over 2 wins (inc. a 17-12 win over Italy) a draw and 2 losses.

Eddie's 6N record so far (excluding Italy): p10, w8 – unbeaten at Twickenham; 5 wins by less than one score.

Lancaster's record across 4 x 6Ns (again, excl Italy) was: p16, w12, lost once at Twickenham, 5 wins by less than one score.

Eddie's most impressive results so far are the wins away in Australia and Argentina, which perhaps bodes well for the World Cup, and his Grand Slam at the first attempt. But 2 losses in season 3 would make the 40% improvement claim a bit empty.

His other big claim - he's building a 'bullet proof England' - is also undermined by the percentage of games that he wins by a single score.

No pressure, Eddie!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 21:00
How England do against Ireland is very informative. Can't wait. England have been able to win for some time without playing well, thanks sweaties, no bad thing.

 
tmc1963
tmc1963 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 23:27
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Underhill carded, harsh as he was targetting the ball. He was cleared out round the neck.

This comment alone means that all your other whining drivel about the officiating can be safely ignored as you have not got the faintest idea what you are talking about.
The big question on this incident was whether it was yellow or red not whether or not it was an offence.

 
tmc1963
tmc1963 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 23:33
Quote:
Ian E
Doesn’t excuse fingers in eye - I wonder if there will be any citings after this? Will Sam’s Yellow prevent any further action?

There were no fingers in the eye as the replay showed quite clearly. Underhill will be cited as it was a red card offence.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
25 February, 2018 23:34
Quote:
tmc1963
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Underhill carded, harsh as he was targetting the ball. He was cleared out round the neck.

This comment alone means that all your other whining drivel about the officiating can be safely ignored as you have not got the faintest idea what you are talking about.
The big question on this incident was whether it was yellow or red not whether or not it was an offence.

Interesting, why a card? Head not targeted. Discussed in some detail on TV and the conclusion was a penalty only. Of course the experienced professionals with the benefit of video replays could always be completely wrong! (Sm161), in case you couldn't spot it!

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 08:49
Quote:
tmc1963
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Underhill carded, harsh as he was targetting the ball. He was cleared out round the neck.

This comment alone means that all your other whining drivel about the officiating can be safely ignored as you have not got the faintest idea what you are talking about.
The big question on this incident was whether it was yellow or red not whether or not it was an offence.

Really?
Not once did the officials mention a possible red card in the discussion that was broadcast on the TV. Nor the pundits employed by TV.
Look at the shape of Underhill's arms again....
and then afterwards tell me he wasn't cleared out around the neck?
No issues at all with Underhill being penalised and accept the officials decided it was worthy of a yellow. Had it been the otherway round I would have wanted yellow, but accepted just a penalty.

Also suggest you go and relook at the contact with the eye area on Hughes.

Even Jiffy on the BBC Wales 6 Nations programme last night suggested Nigel could have been 'kinder' to England, particularly around Care's intercept.

Still the result is an excellent win for Scotland and that's what the record books will always show.
Potentially it's the kick up the backside England need.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 09:09
What I find a little amusing is the Scots still going on about this. If it were the other way round we'd have forgotten about it by now and moved on.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 09:33
Quote:
OutsideBath
What I find a little amusing is the Scots still going on about this. If it were the other way round we'd have forgotten about it by now and moved on.

Yeh, and to think we've got another 10 years of it!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 09:34
'Potentially it's the kick up the backside England need'.

No head coach in my memory has applied more 'kicks up the backside' than Eddie. He was kicking backsides all last week. I just don't see where England can get more intense, better prepared, fitter (40% remember). I simply don't see ways in which Hartley, Cole, Brown, Robshaw, Care or May are going to get better as rugby players - physically or mentally. Eddie's dilemma is that he has labelled quite a lot of players 'not test match animals', and in doing so has set the 'floor' high but the 'ceiling' low - hence so many single score wins in his tenure.

I'm firmly of the opinion that, had Care's interception counted, England would have won - so the margins were, in some way, finer than they looked, and to use the cliche, they haven't become a bad side overnight. But there's definitely a concern that the side as it stands may have peaked. Is there time now to embed players like Slade who may have a lower 'floor' than Brown, say, but have a much higher 'ceiling. I don't see us as having closed the gap on the All Blacks yet.

Of course, it may all be part of Eddie's plan. He may have deliberatel flogged the players last week in order to a/ get them fitter in the long-term, b/ test them to their physical limits in a way that they will serve them well in the late stages of a tournament. And he may privately accept that this would lead to a poor performance in the mean time.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 09:37
You could be right Opti. I don't think the 2 rest weeks in the 6N is great from the world Cup prep point of view, where they play every week for 6/7 weeks, so maybe the Georgian training was part of a plan....

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 09:46
I think there is going to be a massive question as to whether a 31 man squad is adequate for a World Cup any more. When you look at the rate of attrition, plus the increased focus on HIA, the likelihood of a team getting to the semi-finals without having to call up reserves is virtually nil.

I wouldn't want to see the smaller nations further handicapped - but there's a case for some sort of mechanism to allow teams to have a secondary group of players who can train throughout, but only become available for the knockout stages. Or is that already allowed for in some way?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 09:55
I think the problem with Saturday is that we had some selections wrong. Looking at the back row performances of Scotland and Ireland I think that Lawes, Robshaw and Hughes lacked the pace need in a fast flowing game.

Underhill made a difference simply because he was there to do something, we have young fast back rowers to slot in when not injured, Simmomds, Curry, Mercer so perhaps these need more international experience. perhaps had Underhill stayed on England might have done better.

It all depends on how we do against Ireland as to whether this is a big problem or not. Have to say I agree if there was only one score in it at the end England might well have won it.

PS We need another 9 Eddie.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 11:07
Eddie was bound to have a period when his golden touch deserted him. It's going to be really interesting to see how he deals with it. His outburst about Brown after the Wales game seemed a bit intemperate at the time, and looks plain daft in retrospect. I'd love to have seen inside Eddie's head when MB passed the ball into touch. In fairness, he was pretty gracious in defeat, and i read somewhere that he was on a train - in standard class - chatting to supporters after the match.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 11:11
Both Eddie and Dylan Hartley handled themselves very well in defeat.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 11:21
Quote:
hasta
Both Eddie and Dylan Hartley handled themselves very well in defeat.

Agreed with this hasta. I think that their post match interviews spoke volumes about the match and the England performance. No point blaming the ref as I feel he actually got pretty much every decision spot on!

Only one I thought was a little harsh was Underhill's yellow as it does look like he was attempting to wrap his right arm. That said Harry Williams dives in with no arms on the legs which is quite dangerous in the exact same tackle and equally a yellow card offence. Maybe I feel hard done by for Underhill as he is one of our boys though!

Scotland to be fair to them had the luck of the green in the first half with Jones' first try, a pass that was absolutely magic (but could have equally been potentially intercepted) by Russell to setup the break for the second try and some stinking defence for the third try from Hughes and then Brown/Watson indecision.

In the second half though they defended resolutely and England did not carry as well as they have been the rest of EJ's regime. It looked to me like they were running out of options a lot of the time and Scotland had but to hold the lead. Correct decision as well on Care's intercept being brought back (Launchbury clearly slowing ball down and off feet) and on Farrell's disallowed try. We'd all have been absolutely fuming if that had been allowed against England in the circumstances it is worth pointing out!



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 11:35
Weird that 3 years on, Robshaw could be back under the microscope as Eddie tries to balance up his back-row. I'd be inclined to send Lawes to the bench and go with Robshaw, Hughes, Underhill. Nowell has to come into the side too. Everyone else in the world would swap him with Brown, but it could even be JJ who makes way. And with Bastareaud showing some form, does he start with Faz/Te'o and put George on the bench? He could even decide to start with Wigglesworth away to France.

maybe:

Wiggs
Farrell
Te'o
Joseph
May
Watson
Brown

Mako
Hartley
Sinckler
Itoje
Launchbury
Underhill
Hughes
Robshaw

Marler
George
Cole
Lawes
Haskell

Care
Ford
Nowell

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 12:08
Quote:
Big Dog
Quote:
hasta
Both Eddie and Dylan Hartley handled themselves very well in defeat.

Correct decision as well on Care's intercept being brought back (Launchbury clearly slowing ball down and off feet) and on Farrell's disallowed try. We'd all have been absolutely fuming if that had been allowed against England in the circumstances it is worth pointing out!

Well sort of but he confused matters, Launchbury was slowing it down but he told DH that he was playing advantage, if that was so he should have called advantage at the base of the ruck. He didn't so should have let play go on.
Once the decision is made, its made.
That didn't cost us the match but it was important.

I like Nigel but Saturday was the first time Ive seen him look harder at those in white shirts tan blue.
He was right in most of his decisions but it was the ones he didn't make that counted as much. Not Nigel's best game but because he has been excellent before its trivial.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 12:58
If Underhill starts and is expected to cover for George v Bastareaud in midfield I fear the Bath physios will be reaching for the appointments diary again...

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 13:10
I think Bastareaud's ability is over played. He looked very good against Italy. Against better teams he just looks like a porp playing at centre. England need to go out and score 4 trys, they'd do better to think how they can turn the guy into the liability he often is than worrying about him.

 
guernseyfan
guernseyfan (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 13:11
From the moment Eddie called up Wigglesworth, I thought it would make sense to start with him and bring Care on to create havoc at the end. RW is an excellent box kicker and Care simply isn't.
Back row needs to be balanced - Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes of the current fit players. Leave front 5 alone.
No panic in the backs but Brown has to go and room found for Nowell.
And while I worship Nigel as a ref, all the close calls went against England on Saturday. Similarly, all the close calls went against Wales in the earlier match too.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 13:50
"all the close calls went against England on Saturday"

Eddie has said on many occasions that he is building a 'bullet-proof' team. That means you have to build a score that budgets for:

- marginal calls going against you
- the bounce of the ball
- acts of individual genius

Excluding Italy he has only won 3/10* 6Ns games with more than a score to spare. That would be fine if that was the starting point and the margins were getting bigger to reflect the team's progress. But they're not.

(* some of those wins may be where the opposition has narrowed the margin in the last 5 minutes, which would effectively move those wins into the 'bullet-proof' category, but even I can't be @ssed to research that).

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 14:11
The worry with Nowell is that he might struggle for speed against certain wingers. Time to try this against France.

As for Bastareaud - surely Faz and JJ would be just the sort of operation to test him out in defence.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 14:16
Quote:
DanWiley
I think Bastareaud's ability is over played. He looked very good against Italy. Against better teams he just looks like a porp playing at centre. England need to go out and score 4 trys, they'd do better to think how they can turn the guy into the liability he often is than worrying about him.

I don't fear his ability, just that if Underhill tries to impose his tackling style on him he might get a repeat injury.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 14:29
If Bastareaud were English, I think Eddie would pick him - particularly when Vunipola is unavailable (as, I suspect, will be the case more often than not).

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 15:22
I don't think you can judge any of the french players on their performance against Italy personally. There is no guarantee he will even start against England as Lamerat may get recalled following his involvement in the Edinburgh affair.

Personally I would make minimal changes to the starting XV bar Nowell in for Brown and AW to fullback. Not convinced as well that Lawes is England's best current option at 6 and would be tempted to keep him in the second row. Then either he or Launchbury is an excellent impact option with the other partnering Itoje from the start. Kruis isn't much of an impact option for me.

Back row's balance is still very ropey as well. Hughes, Robshaw and Underhill would give this better balance for me but I still would like to see more dynamic carrying from our 6 and 7 options so that Hughes or Billy Vunipola is not left to do it all on his own.

I wonder whether Zach Mercer becomes a real possibility as a starting back row option given his form is pretty good and can play 6 or 8? France away isn't an ideal blooding ground but better to find these things out now than in a years time and given England's form has been uninspired really thus far this 6 Nations may avoid complacency in the current options who may think they are bolted on due to other injuries or unavailability?

Also WHAT DOES DAN ROBSON HAVE TO DO TO MAKE THE ENGLAND TEAM EDDIE?!?!?!



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 15:28
Can't see how Zach fits in as a starter. Hughes - played pretty well given it was his first start for ages, and will be better still in 2 weeks' time. He's not going to leave Robshaw out away to France, and starting Zach at open-side would be playing him out of position on his debut, in a must-win away game. Good bench option, though i still think it's a bit early for him.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 15:50
I agree about the back row but for very different reasons, we wont face fast voracious forwards against France as they will be the usual lumps so Hughes is needed for to match that.
Against Ireland we are going to need to match them for speed or we will get done as we were against Scotland. can Underhill do that on his own?

As for Bastareud I agree with Dan he looked good because the line speed of the Italian defence was slow and disjointed. If you can get him early he doesn't get over the gain line.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 16:54
How both Youngs and Care start on form over Robson, let alone an ageing Wrigglesworth, is beyond me. Robson is the form English qualified scrum half by a country mile for the last season and this. He is the future and should be getting the start experience in international rugby particularly with his speed of pass and running and getting quick ball away from breakdowns, plus his excellent speed of running game. Since he has been at Wasps, a very good 9 as good as Simpson rarely gets a start which tells me something.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 17:07
The back row needs someone to jackal the ball. For all his many skills Mercer is less strong in that respect.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 17:34
Quote:
Boldangrey
The back row needs someone to jackal the ball. For all his many skills Mercer is less strong in that respect.

Bar maybe Tom Curry, who is only 19, I struggle to think of an English back rower who is particularly good at this though! Our best turnover merchants in the England team are probably the second rowers of Launchbury and Itoje!

Still haven't got an out and out dynamic 7 in a McCaw or Hooper mould at all.



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 18:02
I assume that Eddie will stick Brad Shields straight in the minute he arrives to solve the backrow problem.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 19:52
Quote:
Optimist
I assume that Eddie will stick Brad Shields straight in the minute he arrives to solve the backrow problem.

Sheilds is 6ft 4 and 17st and mostly plays 6. Not sure he is the fast jackalling type we need at 7. I think its Underhill and then both of the Curry twins (ideally we can sneak both of them on and the ref won't notice). It will be tough on Sam to learn as a starter but I don't think England have a choice. All of the oppo coaches will have seen that England really struggle when given slow ball and so slow ball is what they are going to get - by any means necessary.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Scotland v England
26 February, 2018 21:03
1. Marler
2. George
3. Williams
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury (c)
6. Robshaw
7. Underhill
8. Hughes

9. Care
10. Ford
11. May
12. Te'o
13. Joseph
14. Nowell
15. Watson

16. Cowan-Dickie
17. MVunipola
18. Sinkler
19. Itoje
20. Mercer
21. Vellacott (probably too late for Robson, so give it the next generation, with Maunder unavailable. Ideally I'd swap with Care, but I want the new kid to get some experience before starting)
22. Farrell
23. Brown (not the best bench option but the bench needs a FB, Watson to wing for that change, or Faz on with JJ to wing if Watson already off)



Our problems are 2, 3 and 6. I've no real problem with Dylan benching, but would rather just move on from him. Cole is an absolute passenger. Our locks are locks, not flankers, Itoje for me has the least form.
In the backline, Faz has remembered what to do at IC, but I'd still rather he played there for his club; both Ford and JJ work better with a running threat between them, ideally a big in. Faz has improved there, but he's not there yet. Probably bring him back again for Ireland though



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=608
RAEBURN SHIELD

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