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Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Top 6 chances
04 March, 2018 18:18
We are now in 7th place & I would say deservedly so as we are just far too inconsistent. What chance do we think we have of scraping into the top 6? I don’t know who the other teams are playing but we have a dreadful run in. Today was a game we HAD to win in my view but not only did we fail to get a LBP according to one of our number a team who have been in complete disarray were far better than us. Of the matches we have to come I cannot see us getting anything out of Exeter & Sarries, maybe a LBP at Gloucester & 4/5 points against LI. The Clash could go either way but it seems Leicester are doing their usual thing of finishing well. That haul will surely not get us into the top 6 & we’ll probably be overtaken by Sale or even Quins. What do others think?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
04 March, 2018 18:23
I don’t think we will finish top 6 personally - we have a lot of tough matches and there are others on a decent run.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
04 March, 2018 18:45
Round 18 is all top 6 vs bottom 6 apart from Leicester vs Wasps, so on paper we will lose further ground.

Glaws play Sarries and Exeter too, so our game with them could in effect decide top 6.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
04 March, 2018 19:05
We'll beat one of Exeter, Sarries, Tigers, Gloucester as per our usual one decent game vs two or three embarrassing ones.

Top 6? Nope. We're lightyears away from making a dent in Europe anyway.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
04 March, 2018 23:58
I honestly thought we could/should get a result against Quins and then believed top 6 was a possibility. Now as we will not win any game on form, apart from possibly Irish, we don't stand a prayer.

I (regretfully) predicted we would end up 7/8 but now think it could be worse ie 9th. If that comes to pass, for a club with our players and resources, that is a woeful season and heads need to roll. It will also mean players like Faletau, Watson and JJ will not hang around if they want to play regular international rugby and therefore need practice against top class European sides.

All very gloomy and please don't bring out the injury list as an excuse. All sides have suffered injuries and other top player absences but they have responded by improvement of play as anyone would expect as a season went on. Not Bath Rugby sadly, we have gone steadily backwards and there is very little sign of any consistent improvement in th playing squad.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 00:43
.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2018 00:46 by joethefanatic.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 00:45
Quote:
Bathovalballer
I honestly thought we could/should get a result against Quins and then believed top 6 was a possibility. Now as we will not win any game on form, apart from possibly Irish, we don't stand a prayer.
I (regretfully) predicted we would end up 7/8 but now think it could be worse ie 9th. If that comes to pass, for a club with our players and resources, that is a woeful season and heads need to roll. It will also mean players like Faletau, Watson and JJ will not hang around if they want to play regular international rugby and therefore need practice against top class European sides.

All very gloomy and please don't bring out the injury list as an excuse. All sides have suffered injuries and other top player absences but they have responded by improvement of play as anyone would expect as a season went on. Not Bath Rugby sadly, we have gone steadily backwards and there is very little sign of any consistent improvement in th playing squad.

Tbh the fewer internationals and Lions we have the better. We need a larger, more evenly quality distributed and less disrupted squad if we are to rebuild effectively.

I'd keep Todd and bin the players who clearly won't listen to him.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 02:06
We have four coaches.

Blackadder - muddled gameplan, have Kahn walk around the pitch and box-kick every ball away, give the opposition as much ball as humanly possible via knock-ons, pointless grubbers (Tapuai's specialty), penalties at our own setpiece and turnovers. Until such a time when we're chasing the game, in which case go nowhere.

Edwards - Skills? What skills? The players can't even execute basics

Booth/Hooper - ruck, scrum, lineout. Please.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 07:02
I saw that Homer and Hurrell caught the pointless and badly executed grubber virus yesterday! At least on one of the Tapuai grubbers he had the courtesy to kick it straight into his opponents hands, most accommodating IMO.

 
nick holder
nick holder (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 08:01
No chance!

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 09:10
Absolutely no chance, we will finish 8th.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 09:26
Maybe we can do a Swansea & win our remaining matches which regrettably included a trouncing of West Ham (Sm19)

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 09:31
What would we do with a top 6 place? It might help recruitment but are we at the level to go deep into Europe?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 09:35
Quote:
Tbh the fewer internationals and Lions we have the better. We need a larger, more evenly quality distributed and less disrupted squad if we are to rebuild effectively.

It's not really the Lions and home nations internationals that's been the problem this season though - it's all the other injuries to the 'evenly distributed' squad.

Catt, Dunn, Batty, Lahiff, Attwood, Burns, Priestland, Clark, Roko, Homer... these are all at best fringe internationals.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 09:40
Seems a lot of negativity after this game. Don't understand it myself. We've certainly had worse performances without the same angry responses.
This was hardly atypical.
People can't be this upset just because it's Quins?



I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 09:44
Quote:
Danchinho
Seems a lot of negativity after this game. Don't understand it myself. We've certainly had worse performances without the same angry responses.
This was hardly atypical.
People can't be this upset just because it's Quins?

Cumulative effect based on more or less an entire season of rubbish? We've had worse performances, you're right, but that's not a good thing given how abject yesterday was. And yes Quins are dire at the moment, 14 man Wasps thrashed them, we didn't score a point for 70 minutes.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 09:55
On a slightly different note, do we mortals know for certain who is our marquee player- as per salary cap regs?

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 10:24
Forget Marque players, lets get in 4 or 5 guys who have talent, really want to learn, put themselves out for the team and each other, have and can perform BASIC SKILLS and ball retention under pressure and not waste our cash on a so called superstar who plays about 5 games a season because he is away, injured or rested and goes through the motions in a side that is struggling because they do not truly know or care about each other. Take Saracens, they have away weekends which every one of their players go to, partly because they want to and also there is a three line whip in operation. That builds team spirit, and even their super stars attend. Do we ever do anything like that?

I know I go on about our Spa (in jest) but since we have had it, has anything improved and has it led to consistent outstanding performances? IMO frankly no and the sooner we toughen up our regime, and get away from the place the better. Giving out such carrots to the players as an incentive to achieve has not worked and therefore change is called for. We need to toughen up and personally I would put them out with the Marines for a week under canvas on Dartmoor, in the Brecon Beacons or a remote Scottish Island and exercises, including having to catch, kill and cook their own food. Only the fittest would survive and they would soon learn the need for team work to ease their discomfort. Those who cannot or don't want to join in because they miss the fluffy slippers we hand out at Farleigh, have to go and quickly.

This has been another season of huge disappointment and under achievement with a squad on paper that is as good as if not better than most in the Prem with top class facilities. Its about time Bath Rugby do something about it.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 10:32
4 or 5 guys who rarely get injured would be handy - OK its a contact sport but there seem to be players who just have muscles that get pulled every few games and those like George Ford and Alex Waller who don't.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 11:18
I expect our marquee players are Faletau and Louw.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 11:23
Question for TCM. How many more games will Bath win this season?

My prediction is one or possibly two if we put out a full side on Friday. We may even loose against Irish if they have a chance of staying up and we take it as a given as we do against sides below us in the Table who haven't won for weeks.

We had chances on Sunday but are not ruthless or efficient enough to finish them off!

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 12:28
I think moving away from Farleigh would be pointless & change nothing. Also I think all this toughening up stuff is rubbish. We are not a million miles away from being a pretty good side & can perform well in certain matches & for periods in most matches. We have identified the problems but the coaches don’t seem capable of eradicating them. It seems to be largely a coaching issue as well as recruitment. There’s no sign of an attack coach on the horizon & I believe we have only signed a winger & centre so far. We don’t seem to be able to attract the best non marquee players or retain coaches. That is the essence of the problem in my view.

 
terracehugger
terracehugger (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 12:30
No effective coaching.
No direction.
No evidence of basic skills expertise.
No leadership.
No recognisable game plan apart from a concentration on kicking the ball away aimlessly.

No chance!!

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 13:23
I hadn't thought of them having to catch kill and cook their own food as a solution to the problem...but worth a try

 
recman
recman (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 13:33
Quote:
Danchinho
Seems a lot of negativity after this game. Don't understand it myself. We've certainly had worse performances without the same angry responses.
This was hardly atypical.
People can't be this upset just because it's Quins?

I think yesterday was a bit of a watershed moment. Because Quins have been playing terribly, and because we dropped a couple of league positions to somewhere near where everyone knows we should be, based on our performances. Arguably we should be lower than we are.

I have no opinions on what needs to be done to fix the 'problem', whatever that is. But a 'problem' there obviously is. I hope someone who knows more than me manages to fix it. In the meantime I'll keep turning up to watch, but we all have our breaking points.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 16:52
Quote:
Danchinho
Seems a lot of negativity after this game. Don't understand it myself. We've certainly had worse performances without the same angry responses.
This was hardly atypical.
People can't be this upset just because it's Quins?

For me, it's cumulative; Quins was just the final straw.
Thank goodness I didn't bother going to the Stoop on Sunday.
I've lost all enthusiasm for the Twickenham game as well.



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 17:38
Quote:
jayeatman
Quote:
Danchinho
Seems a lot of negativity after this game. Don't understand it myself. We've certainly had worse performances without the same angry responses.
This was hardly atypical.
People can't be this upset just because it's Quins?

For me, it's cumulative; Quins was just the final straw.
Thank goodness I didn't bother going to the Stoop on Sunday.
I've lost all enthusiasm for the Twickenham game as well.

It is difficult to retain enthusiasm for a team that is so up & down & rarely plays to its full potential. We’ll always support the team but if the coaches & players want to regain the goodwill of the supporters they will have to really pull their fingers out in the remaining matches.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 17:49
"It is difficult to retain enthusiasm for a team that is so up & down & rarely plays to its full potential. "

and yet we have. Aside from one season under JC2 and one under Ford I can't think of a time when we've played consistently well in the last 20 years? Even the JC2 year I seem to recall we fell off the pace towards the end leading to our defeat.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 18:58
Quote:
DanWiley
"It is difficult to retain enthusiasm for a team that is so up & down & rarely plays to its full potential. "
and yet we have. Aside from one season under JC2 and one under Ford I can't think of a time when we've played consistently well in the last 20 years? Even the JC2 year I seem to recall we fell off the pace towards the end leading to our defeat.

Possibly true, but when BC took over we were given hope of being turned into a good side, but his reign is nothing more than false dawn and failure.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 19:20
I think the club need to turn over every stone to find a coach. A rigorous selection process to ensure they have the vision and temperant to take the team forward. Total carte Blanche and an open cheque book to bring in his desired staff....if they think the tea lady needs to change then they're changed. .......and get them on a long contract.


I have no idea who this could be tbh but I would love the club to think beyond the usual suspects that crop up.



"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 20:27
I recall there being an awful lot of histrionics in the wake of the Scarlets game... But the reality was that they were better than Bath in all facets of the game. The basic fact is that we're pretty average. We Bath fans are guilty of possessing an incredible sense of entitlement when it comes to winning expectations. We've won 17 odd rugby matches this season and lost 11 odd. We're average. 6th possibly - but probably not.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 20:45
Quote:
dannyf2
We Bath fans are guilty of possessing an incredible sense of entitlement when it comes to winning expectations.

No. We expect a level of performance that shouldn't be too much to ask at this stage with the quality of players at our disposal. Nothing to do with winning, that'll take care of itself if the play itself is improved.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 20:56
When I was young, a very long time ago, I recall we were told, time and time again and practised time and time again to pass the ball so that it arrived with the recipient at "hand height", i.e. Waist level and two or three foot in front.

Go over the last game and observe how many passes were made above the head or behind the body.........surely these are basic skills that are just second nature

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 21:00
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
dannyf2
We Bath fans are guilty of possessing an incredible sense of entitlement when it comes to winning expectations.

No. We expect a level of performance that shouldn't be too much to ask at this stage with the quality of players at our disposal. Nothing to do with winning, that'll take care of itself if the play itself is improved.

I completely agree that the standard is poor, but disagree that it is an unfair reflection of the players we put out. Can you say that we've been near to 'full strength' once this season? I think under modern circumstances, we have to admit that it simply never happens.

We'll have to beg to differ on the winning bit. I'm fairly sure there would be a lot more contentment if we were winning more.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 21:08
BSJ, our basic skills like handling and passing are absolutely woeful and especially under pressure, If we could master just that we would show some improvement!

That and our fitness levels, keeping the ball in hand instead of kicking it away with no effective chase, would be vast improvements.

Tackling so that we knock players down and preferably backwards would also be a bonus followed by droving over the ball. That includes Mr Ewels who presently gives nothing of notice around the broken play.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 21:10
Zach Mercer has pretty good fitness levels when he was chasing down the England apprentice Marcus Smith I thought?

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 21:11
Our final 5 AP matches are;

H - Chiefs
A - Tigers (HQ)
A - Sarries
A - Glaws
H - L Irish

I'd like to think 3 wins would be enough for a top 6 finish, I'm struggling to believe we're going to do it based upon recent performances. To miss HC rugby next season would be v disappointing...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 21:15
I would love to be proven wrong but I can only see us winning the LI match out of those unless we really have rapid improvement.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 21:18
I agree with BO.

It boils my pi$$ that those on here who are drunk on the Koolade always say that the pragmatists claim a sense of entitlement to win everything. Utter hogwash.

Nobody expects us to win every game, but I think most expect a level of commitment and performance that befits professional sportsmen.

Sundays game switched entirely after JW's intercepted pass. The players heads dropped and the game plan (?) fell apart. And for the remaining 7/8ths of the game they were unable to get things back on an even keel.

I honestly think that we miss really strong on field leadership. Perhaps we miss Flou more than we realise? But even if that is the case, this is a game where leadership should flourish all over the plot, but sadly it is not apparent currently.

The club is a bu66ers muddle.

I hate waxing lyrical about Baxter and Chiefs. But it is undeniable that his recipe of plays, motivation, entertainment, player development and outright results is far more palatable than Toddy's

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 21:18
So he should Matt, what is his age 22? But he is one of 14 others who either could not be bothered or were too knackered to play when called upon.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 22:00
To get top 6 we have to score one more point than Glaws in the final five games.

Both of us have Exeter and Sarries which we will probably lose, and Irish which we’ll probably win.

So it will come down to the result of The Clash vs Glaws game against Quins, and of course the head to head at Kingsholm.

You’d have to give Glaws the edge, but it’s not a done deal yet.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 23:14
Wearing rose tinted (BB&W) spectacles is all our hope and desire but even the heart cannot possibly continue to overcome the evidence of reality with the woeful, inept play in front of us virtually every week. Other sides improve with playing together, we go backwards or stand still at best. Even Irish.

Show some bite.and savvy Bath, whoever we get on the field, now is the time to stand up and be counted.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
05 March, 2018 23:53
Quote:
TCM2007
To get top 6 we have to score one more point than Glaws in the final five games.
Both of us have Exeter and Sarries which we will probably lose, and Irish which we’ll probably win.

So it will come down to the result of The Clash vs Glaws game against Quins, and of course the head to head at Kingsholm.

You’d have to give Glaws the edge, but it’s not a done deal yet.

Sale don’t have the easiest of games but they are surely still in the running?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 08:39
Quote:
Bathovalballer
..... Other sides improve with playing together, we go backwards or stand still at best.....

A major part of our problems has been that with injuries and absences we have rarely had a settled side this season.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 08:51
Quote:
Boldangrey
Quote:
Bathovalballer
..... Other sides improve with playing together, we go backwards or stand still at best.....

A major part of our problems has been that with injuries and absences we have rarely had a settled side this season.

yes that and having to play all those teams who are good at rugby

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 09:16
Quins are good at rugby?

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 09:18
Quote:
Woodpecker
yes that and having to play all those teams who are good at rugby

smileys with beer

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 09:21
Quote:
Boldangrey
Quins are good at rugby?

Better than us right now.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 09:22
Better than us last Sunday.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 09:47
As my old club captain would say, look in the book at the score and who is better. Quins will improve with their England contingent back, can you honestly say we will?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 10:46
As my old club captain would say 20-5 at theirs. 38-14 at ours. 9 points behind us in the Premiership. Look at the facts.

Why shouldn't we improve with our internationals back?

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 12:59
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Tackling so that we knock players down and preferably backwards would also be a bonus followed by droving over the ball. That includes Mr Ewels who presently gives nothing of notice around the broken play.

I was chatting to Charlie Ewels on Facebook yesterday, and mentioned that you would like to meet up with him and pass on the benefits of your coaching expertise. He is looking forward to the experience.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 13:24
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
TCM2007
To get top 6 we have to score one more point than Glaws in the final five games.
Both of us have Exeter and Sarries which we will probably lose, and Irish which we’ll probably win.

So it will come down to the result of The Clash vs Glaws game against Quins, and of course the head to head at Kingsholm.

You’d have to give Glaws the edge, but it’s not a done deal yet.

Sale don’t have the easiest of games but they are surely still in the running?

Yes, but this far out you have to simplify a bit!



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 13:26
Quote:
Bathovalballer
As my old club captain would say, look in the book at the score and who is better. Quins will improve with their England contingent back, can you honestly say we will?

Will we be better with Watson, JJ and Underhill back? Yes I think I can honestly say that.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
ligger
ligger (IP Logged)

Re: Top 6 chances
06 March, 2018 13:28
I am not certainly not singling out players at all, but collectively they do have a habit of a lot of handling and basic errors. My son even said while watching the last minutes 'we don't make those mistake' that's at under 9's.

Back to basic approach should be adopted for the rest of season, keeping the ball in hand unless their is plan with what to do with the kick.


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