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dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 20:53
I realise we've barely put away the tackle bags from this season but, for a bit of fun, if everyone's fit and raring to go, what would your squad be for the first game of next season?

My effort below:

Watson, Roko, JJ, Willison, Brew, Priestland, Kahn.
Obano, Dunn, Thomas, Attwood, Ewels, Garvey (c), Louw, Faletau.
Cokanasiga, Burns, Chudley, Underhill, Stooke, Lahiff, Catt, Walker.

Some thoughts...
It's really difficult! More tough choices to make than in many seasons I reckon.
Willison over Roberts is just a hunch that he might bring something a bit extra on a hard, fast September track but it could have gone either way.
Kahn starts for me with Chudley growing into the squad. What depth at 9. Poor Cooky.
That's some power on the bench. And some power in the boxes in the Teacher's Stand, including Homer, Roberts, Cook, Batty, Charteris, Ellis, Mercer etc.
Most pleasingly for me was that Obano and Dunn were almost the first names on my teamsheet. 12 months ago I'd never have thought that. I can't wait to see how they go next year.

Exciting.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 21:40
I've never been convinced by Rhys or Freddie, but I want to see Freddie play more than I want to see Rhys.

Khan has been great, but age was getting to him this season and he won't get younger next season.

I don't know a lot about Willison, so I tend to favour Roberts.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 22:38
Much the same Dr Bath with the exceptions of Ellis over Garvey and possibly Chudley at 9. Still unconvinced by our TH choices. Willinson will be a revelation for us this year I think.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 22:38
There is some really tough choices across the majority of the positions.

I'd like to see

Obano, Dunn, Thomas, Ewels (c), Attwood, Underhill, Louw, Faletau, Chudley, Priestland, Brew, Roberts, JJ, Roko, Watson.

Walker, Catt, Lahiff, Garvey, Ellis, Kahn, Burns, Vuna.

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 22:57
Agree about Willison, been watching him for Worcester and he certainly offers a more versatile game than Roberts perhaps with less umph. So for the first few games on hard pitches mine would look like this:

1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Thomas
4. Ewels
5. Attwood/Stooke
6. Garvey (c)
7. Louw
8. Faletau
9. Chudley
10. Burns
11. Cokanasiga
12. Willison
13. JJ
14. Roko
15. Watson

16. Walker 17. Catt 18. Lahiff 19. Stooke/Ellis 20. Mercer 21. Kahn 22. Rhys 23. Brew/Vuna

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 23:05
Obano, Dunn, Thomas
Ewels, Attwood
Ellis, Louw, Faletau
Chudley, Priestland
Roberts, Willinson
Brew, Roko, Homer

Walker, Catt, Lahiff, Stooke, Garvey, CC, Burns, Wilson

I donít personally think JJ and AW will be back in time for the first game of the season - maybe JJ but AW Iíd assume is doubtful. Very tough to leave out Underhill and I really do hope Wilson stays on board.



Josh Bayliss [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2018/19

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 23:18
Is Clark our only other option at 13?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 23:31
Max Wright? Plus either Wilson?

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
16 May, 2018 23:51
RMCC might have potential in 13 birth as well?



Josh Bayliss [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 06:13
Jackson Willison plays 12 or 13.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 08:50
Iím losing track of who is with us now but it will be a pity if we canít incorporate that old City firm of Wilson, Willison & Wilson into our back line (Sm100)

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 09:38
It will be interesting to see which Jamie Roberts turns up and how Clark comes back. Louw also needs to return to top form to guaranteee a starting place. All of this will not matter a bit, if we don't sort out the scrum.

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 09:47
It's interesting that we don't have any signings that slot straight into anyone's starting pack. Attwood will feel like a new signing if he comes back fit. And others - Catt, Batty, Underhill - have been out for so long that their fitness will be a welcome boost, too.

Can't help thinking that a world-class tighthead might still be required if we're going to take the step up to challenge the top 4. Thomas is only 26, so he's got time to develop into a top rate TH, but if we want to give our back row and Girvan's backs the best opportunity to cause damage we need a destructive scrum.

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 10:08
Yes TH is a bit of a weakness, Perenise is probably our best option but at 35, you wouldn't expect him to play much. IIRC our scrum was fairly successful just before Thomas came back.

 
Pie-Half
Pie-Half (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 10:27
I am assuming that all players are available and no injuries or last minute stellar signings, but

1-Catt, 2-Walker, 3-Lahiff, 4-Stooke, 5-Attwood, 6-Zach, 7-Underhill, 8-TF
9-Chudley, 10-Burns, 11-JC, 12-Roberts, 13-JJ, 14-Rocko, 15-Watson

subs - Obano, Walker, Nixon/Vaughan, Garvs, Ellis, Kahn, RP, Willison



Andy Goode's body double.

Bring back rucking and speed up the game. Simples, for rucks sake.

Anyone.But.Tiggers.

Charlie Ewels - Adopted player 2018/19
Levi Douglas - Adopted player 2017/18
Tom Homer - Adopted player 2016/17

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 10:37
DrBath, the answer to your TH question is Paul Hill at Bath, under the right coach, i really feel like he can be a top top TH prop. Not sure about his contract situation at saints but that is someone I would have my eye on if I am Bath

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 10:50
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
DrBath, the answer to your TH question is Paul Hill at Bath, under the right coach, i really feel like he can be a top top TH prop. Not sure about his contract situation at saints but that is someone I would have my eye on if I am Bath

I think that we have probably missed that boat with the recent Saints coaching changes

[www.englandrugby.com]

Dorian West clearly didn't fancy him but he seems to be right back in favour now.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 10:53
Dorian West at the end was lost as a coach, I don't know what he was doing or what Hill did to him but, he just did not like the guy.

Looking forward to seeing what a good forwards coach does with him as not only is he really good at scrummaging, although he can get better, he is great around the field, carrying, really strong at the breakdown and he is only 23.

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 11:05
I know I am not a Bath fan but my team based on the players you have would be
1. Obano
2.Dunn
3. Thomas
4. Ewels
5. Attwood
6.Ellis (He is a better player than Garvey imo and he is only getting better)
7.Louw
8.Toby
9.Kahn
10. Rhys
11. Flying Joe
12.Roberts
13.Joseph
14.Roko
15. Watson

I have been very impressed with Obano this season and I think he should be first choice, his scrummaging would improve and around the field, he is much better than Catt, the hits he puts on boys are impressive, he does not just tackle, he really hits people, Attwood coming back will help your set piece and I like Attwood and putting him with a young mobile lock in Ewels, who will be looking to make the WC squad, that should be a good combo with Stooke on the bench. Your back row, I think Ellis is a better player than Garvey in my opinion and better upside, Louw and Toby pick themselves in the rest of the back row. I think Underhill needs to develop his attacking game as that is an area he is lacking in and Mercer has to continue to become a more physical player, those are the 2 who are back ups in the back row. The backs well I just picked the ones I know, I don't have any real analysis of your backs although I would go Rhys over Freddie

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 11:30
Quote:
Pie-Half
I am assuming that all players are available and no injuries or last minute stellar signings, but
1-Catt, 2-Walker, 3-Lahiff, 4-Stooke, 5-Attwood, 6-Zach, 7-Underhill, 8-TF
9-Chudley, 10-Burns, 11-JC, 12-Roberts, 13-JJ, 14-Rocko, 15-Watson

subs - Obano, Walker, Nixon/Vaughan, Garvs, Ellis, Kahn, RP, Willison

Interesting selection! No Flouw, Ellis or Henry T in the 23?

I think that Stooke and Attwood are both better as tighthead locks. Good though Walker is, Dunn would be one of the first names on my teamsheet. I think it was discussed the other day that both JC and Roko are right wingers?

(Fun exercise BTW, interesting how people watching exactly the same games see different strengths and weaknesses in players.)

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 11:43
" Good though Walker is, Dunn would be one of the first names on my teamsheet."

I've not really seen the fuss about Walker, but he certainly isn't good enough to back himself up on the bench.

 
Sirengco
Sirengco (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 12:05
I think Vuna may be a real suprise next season... did a job despite being well out of shape - with a good preseason and conditioning he might be another guy creating some selection headaches

 
Sirengco
Sirengco (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 12:24
Obano
Dunn
Thomas
Attwood (pains me to not say Stooke -he's still got time though)
Ewels
Mercer
Louw
Faletau
Chudley (although Green is my prediction for breakthrough player next year)
Priestland
Brew/Vuna/Coka (cannot call it!)
Willison
JJ
Roko
Watson

Two areas in there that will either be a blessing or a curse...back row and the back 3. If managed well or we have forced rotations then could work out fantastic but there are a lot of great players in the two areas that will be expecting game time! Difficult to call...



2017/18 adopted player: Rhys Priestland
2018/19 adopted player: Kahn Fotuali'i

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 12:42
To be honest with call-ups, inevitable injuries (argh) and the large number of games (league, euro, new MM cup and A-league) next year I think that there will be plenty of opportunities for all of them to get some decent minutes under their belt.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 13:39
My XXIII if all assumed fit would be:

1. Obano
2. Dunne
3. Thomas
4. Attwood
5. Ewels
6. Underhill
7. Louw
8. Faletau

9. Chudley
10. Priestland/Burns
11. Roko
12. Roberts/Willison
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Homer


Reps:
16. Walker
17. Catt
18. Perenise
19. Stooke
20. Mercer
21. Khan
22. Burns/Priestland
23. Brew/Vuna

On top of that you have in the forwards Batty, Ellis, Delmas, Chateris etc in the backs the likes of Cokanasiga, Clarke, Cooke etc in the backs if fit it shows we have the depth - the big word is if we start and can keep our players fit .

 
Pie-Half
Pie-Half (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 15:54
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Pie-Half
I am assuming that all players are available and no injuries or last minute stellar signings, but
1-Catt, 2-Walker, 3-Lahiff, 4-Stooke, 5-Attwood, 6-Zach, 7-Underhill, 8-TF
9-Chudley, 10-Burns, 11-JC, 12-Roberts, 13-JJ, 14-Rocko, 15-Watson

subs - Obano, Walker, Nixon/Vaughan, Garvs, Ellis, Kahn, RP, Willison

Interesting selection! No Flouw, Ellis or Henry T in the 23?

I think that Stooke and Attwood are both better as tighthead locks. Good though Walker is, Dunn would be one of the first names on my teamsheet. I think it was discussed the other day that both JC and Roko are right wingers?

(Fun exercise BTW, interesting how people watching exactly the same games see different strengths and weaknesses in players.)

Was meant to be Dunn, starting, just had a brain fart.

Not a fan of Henry Thomas, Gets his body and arms in bad positions too often in the scrum. Needs some technical coaching. Would be helped by a run of games most likely. IMHO

With the way the game has been reffed at the breakdown, you are almost not allowed to compete which is Flouws strength. If they change the empasis at the breakdown then i would bring him back in. Ellis and Underhill are both ferocious tacklers and then with the carrying ability of Zach and TF i think you have a better ballance to the back row.

i get what your saying about the 2nd rows, but i like to have some grunt there, and both are probably our better 2nd row ball acrriers

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 16:06
1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Thomas
4. Stooke
5. Attwood
6. Ellis
7. Louw
8. Faletau
9. Chudley
10. Burns
11. Cokanasiga
12. Willison
13. JJ
14. Roko
15. Watson

16. Walker
17. Catt
18. Lahiff
19. Garvey
20. Z. Mercer
21. Green
22. Rhys
23. T. Homer

Contentious choices;
Ellis over Garvey at 6 - with Louw starting to slow down keeps the back row more dynamic than two aging warriors either side. Garvey can cover row and 6 from bench.
Zach Mercer on bench over Underhill - offers more dynamism and versatility than Underhill for me
Max Green on bench - would like to see him given a chance more off bench next year as was impressed. Think he could jump a couple in the queue if gets a good pre-season and learns off the older heads well. Partnered with Priestland as replacement halves keeps that axis with one wise head still
Tom Homer more versatile as Watson can move elsewhere than an out and out wing option on bench. Thought he looked good when he came back at the end of the year and can't wait to see him going next year!



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
benjbath
benjbath (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
17 May, 2018 16:15
1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Thomas
4. Atwood
5. Ewells
6. Underhill
7. Flouw
8. Faletau
9. Chudley
10. Burns
11. Cokanasiga
12. Willison
13. JJ
14. Roko
15. Watson

16. Walker
17. Catt
18. Lahiff
19. Stooke
20. Mercer
21. Cook
22. Priestland
23. Brew/Vuna/Homer

That's what I see as our expected strongest team from a fan's perspective. That being said, we need leaders so Garvey should maybe be there somewhere, also batty when fit is seriously underrated when his line out functions. So that might not be what I anticipate first game of the season, but with time I think it may evolve into that. Maybe I'd start priestland early on, but I think burns has more potential and may benefit from Dempsey's arrival more than Rhys (though Rhys is not entirely dissimilar to sexton)... I, like many, think Willison will be a real surprise package and will become first choice twelve. I am also optimistic about cokanasiga, though anyone mentioned at 23 could slot into that back three quite happily.
People saying flouw is wasted because of new laws impinging on jackaling capacity, he was outright man of the match against Gloucester in his second game back and, even if He can't steal the ball as often, it still needs to slow down which we quite simply weren't doing effectively enough last season. To beat teams like Exeter you have to have someone to at least challenge their flow and, quite accidentally, the man best suited to that is flouw.
If kahn's lack of pace most of last season wasn't age related he may sneak in ahead of cook. I'm also really excited during about bayliss, mercer and Ellis our non-existent academy products who are going to be class again next season IMO.
A lot of selection headaches to contend with. Pretty exciting.

 
MESSAGES->author

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
18 May, 2018 14:54
I'd scratch Obano off your lists, depending on how bad his knee injury is.

England Twitter



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
18 May, 2018 14:57
Great.

 
MESSAGES->author
jayeatman (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
18 May, 2018 16:48
Most people's selections make you wonder why we signed Roberts!



BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
18 May, 2018 23:33
Roberts might make my ďfirst XXIII of the seasonĒ but not for the first match when the grass ought to be firm.



Josh Bayliss [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2018/19

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 00:22
Sidís perspective is that the general poll is coalescing around the right nomes.
Except, donít get the strong Freddie over Rhys bias.
To me, F has magic moments but Rhys has class, would love to see him at the controls behind a good motor.

PECK

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 07:11
Funny I don't really get the Rhys bias. On form he just about has it, but if we want to continue our form of last season then what's the point? When on form is rather see Freddie.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 07:16
Both are very good FHs who have had very average seasons. When on form there isn't much between them and the same when not on form. Whichever of them gets their A game back deserves the spot IMO. If they both get it back then for me it probably depends on the conditions (hard dry day vs game of chess in a monsoon). That would be a nice problem to have and not one we have been familiar with recently.

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 18:18
I donít recall Freddie having a great first season at Leicester nor Gloucester. I expect him to kick on at some point this season and from there establish himself as first choice.



Josh Bayliss [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 19:01
There's some interesting research that was done by Ben Darwin about how long it takes to adjust after moving clubs by position and fly half was by far the longest. That's certainly a mitigating factor for Burns.

 
MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 20:41
Wasn't it something like they don't get back to their best form until the 3rd year?

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 20:58
Certainly doesn't bode well for Cips at Glaws then!

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
19 May, 2018 22:49
Quote:
hasta
There's some interesting research that was done by Ben Darwin about how long it takes to adjust after moving clubs by position and fly half was by far the longest. That's certainly a mitigating factor for Burns.

Ford was scintillating in his first year & seemed to take no time to adjust.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
20 May, 2018 00:38
I agree with that (although he wasn't in his first year at Tigers). It's not hard and fast, like most statistics it's a bell curve.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
20 May, 2018 10:04
To be fair to Ford he was 16 / 17 in his his first year at Tigers. Smith at Quins didn't do badly mind you considering how poor his platform was compared with Fords in the 2014 season.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
20 May, 2018 11:59
Sorry I meant this season I don't think he's been very good for Tigers consistently. Maybe a bit better towards the end.

 
Recwatcher
Recwatcher (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
24 May, 2018 12:33
Just for the hell of it, would love to see this team at some point this season, with an obvious link ;
Obano
Dunn
Thomas
Attwood
Ewels
Ellis
Underhill
Mercer
Cook
Burns
Clark
JJ
Roko
Watson
Homer

With a bench of
Catt Walker Lahiff Stooke Garvey Chudley Davies Jack Wilson.


Apart from perhaps Faletau/ Priestland who will either be in Wales camp for about four months next season or injured, the above with a few games under their belt would be as good as any other combo.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
24 May, 2018 12:40
No Flouw in the back row?

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
24 May, 2018 13:21
So that's a Bath/England XXIII. Very nice.

Here's hoping our NZ/Welsh/Irish/English backroom boys can get them playing some decent rugby.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Your XXIII for first game next season?
24 May, 2018 13:38
Ah, I missed that. Long day.


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