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Tomato Soup
Tomato Soup (IP Logged)

The pack is still an issue
07 June, 2018 16:21
Having not renewed my ST I got a promotional e-mail today highlighting the new signings that I should be excited about.

The only new signing in the front row is Delmas while we have now lost Obano for a long period.

With players such as Catt, Batty, Lahiff and Thomas being injured so much of the time and Auterac and KPN leaving I would have thought that the front row would be a huge priority.

I can see us being dominated up front as things stand and really struggling next year.

Our pack has been so weak for so long.

You can't win a game without the ball and a solid set piece.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
07 June, 2018 16:24
There should be quite a few back from injury for start of season - think club has already said they are looking for a temp replacement for Obano and given the new French coach has recruitment part of his brief then give him chance to get in the job

 
Tomato Soup
Tomato Soup (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
07 June, 2018 16:35
Quote:
the new French coach has recruitment part of his brief then give him chance to get in the job

That may be the case but we knew that Auterac and KPN have been leaving for some time. Catts fitness issues are there for all to see as are Ross Batty's in the last 2 seasons.

The premiership along with England training has a high probability of injury so where is the strategic planning in all of this. To say its down to a new coach in my view is unreasonable. It down to the management surely.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
07 June, 2018 16:56
I think it is the front row rather than the pack. Our back row is potentially world class. Our second row isn't that bad either, yes it would be good to know if Dave will be around, but if he is great, if not serve a pile of money for a replacement. Two very talented younger players. And Luke, who hasn't done what we'd hoped perhaps, but he is a good player and we're paying him a date but so that probably means we can't afford to replace him.

An injury Joker for Beno is probably better not rushed, I like la hiff as a squad player and hopefully we'll see Catt soon. I'm not worried at 2 either, Dunn, batty, walker. So if what you mean by pack is tight head, then I'd agree.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
07 June, 2018 17:01
Quote:
Tomato Soup
Quote:
the new French coach has recruitment part of his brief then give him chance to get in the job

That may be the case but we knew that Auterac and KPN have been leaving for some time. Catts fitness issues are there for all to see as are Ross Batty's in the last 2 seasons.

The premiership along with England training has a high probability of injury so where is the strategic planning in all of this. To say its down to a new coach in my view is unreasonable. It down to the management surely.
Auterac's already been replaced; whilst KPN and Knight were surplus to requirements (excepting duringhte injury crisis at THP which needso to be ignored when it comes to future balance of the team).
Obano needs to be replaced, but the scouts need time to actually find someone.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
quanco
quanco (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
07 June, 2018 17:04
I think we might be one, at most two players light but no more. Had youngens like Dunn and Obano not stepped up so much then we'd be on a very different road. As things stand, I look forward to the old heads returning, staying fit and getting some game time under their belt.



Anthony Perenise [Bath Rugby] - Adopted Player 2017/18

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
07 June, 2018 17:18
I would (and I'm sure we all would) Vaughan or Nixon to come through this year like Beno did last. Both will be 22 years old so obviously very young, but not kids any more.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 11:25
Our front row was a real problem in some key games last year. The starting guys are not going to mix it in Europe or play-off level, and the back-ups are a big concern. It depends on our ambition. I believe we need a totally new starting front row, with the current one on the bench.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 12:04
I don't think its about ambition, its not as easy as that. We can't just bring in a new front row without elements of the old one going, moreover to improve on the outgoing player we need to direct spending from other areas of the team. So to strengthen our front row we need to weaken elsewhere.

As I've said, loose head and hooker I think we're ok. I worry that I'm writing Noguera off too early as well. With AP and Thomas in theory we're not in a bad place there.

But I don't think we really need to re-balance much. Hats showed us that a scrum with basically the same personnel can go from at best average, to top quality and back to at best average just through the arrival and departure of a good scrum coach. About the field I've no problem with our front row, so get a great set piece coach and I think that would solve most of our problems.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 13:29
Exactly - we should have tried to off-load RP and used the money to strengthen the front row. Dare I say it, we might also have been able to do a Haskell type thing with Louw and asked if he would have been interested in a move elsewhere. That might have freed up enough cash for an impressive 3 new starters who could make all the difference to us. Keep FB at 10 and we still have a back-row of Faletau, Mercer and Underhill et al.

You have to make harsh decisions with the cap, as we saw with the Banahan situation.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 13:33
Last season refs were much more inclined to see the ball away from the scrum than whistle for penalties. Hopefully that trend will continue next year. Coaches might decide that, as long as the ball can be hooked away quickly and used, it's not quite so important to invest in rock-solid scrummaging props, as it is in breakaways and backs who can do something with the ball?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 13:51
Quote:
cb2
Exactly - we should have tried to off-load RP and used the money to strengthen the front row. Dare I say it, we might also have been able to do a Haskell type thing with Louw and asked if he would have been interested in a move elsewhere. That might have freed up enough cash for an impressive 3 new starters who could make all the difference to us. Keep FB at 10 and we still have a back-row of Faletau, Mercer and Underhill et al.
You have to make harsh decisions with the cap, as we saw with the Banahan situation.

Banahan (as was Haskell) was out of contract and had a very attractive counter offer. We did let Shields, Auterac and KPN leave as they were out of contract so have already done a lot to free up front row cap space.

RP and Louw are in contract and both will be very useful this year - especially assuming that neither are now in the international picture. Would you genuinely be happy with just FB and Alex Davies covering all of the games at 10 this season? (Unless we could get a THP / 10 utility of course).

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 13:56
cb2...does the 'exactly' refer to Dan's post? If so he isn't advocating a change so much as better coaching.

I can't see how swapping a fly half for a front row will do us any good when Freddie gets injured, but more to the point is RP even worth as much as a decent front row?

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 14:57
I think the "exactly" was reference to we can get someone new in without letting someone go.

I can see the point that have BOTH Freddie and Rhys is a bad idea. I can't say which I'd let go (if it were possible) based on their performances for us so far. What would be better at 10? Someone like Freddie or Rhys, an up and coming but already Ap standard 24 year old, and a 10 ion the academy. That would free up £100k (stupid wild guess) to make one of our decent 3s, a great 3.

But yes, my main point is we'd be better off spending uncapped money on the best scrum coach we can get. As you say, we can't go from having both to the situation I describe overnight.


"but more to the point is RP even worth as much as a decent front row?"

His original contract certainly was. I think a decent 10 is a reasonable swap value wise for a decent 3.




"Last season refs were much more inclined to see the ball away from the scrum than whistle for penalties. "

To start with certainly, and generally better over the year, but it felt like they were going back to old ways to me. That was a real shame, because I liked it when the pack were saying "but, but, but the penalty." and the ref was replying "You've got the platform, that was the point of the scrum, now use it."

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 15:12
I thought that this was interesting in relation to salaries (think I put it on before).

[www.walesonline.co.uk]

The figure 1/2 way down shows the comparison between positions in the 3 different leagues.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 16:46
The pack is an issue, we have too many injury prone players to really be competitive all season.

For me though it's more of a concern that the coaches responsible for the pack and set piece haven't been replaced.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 17:13
Quote:
OutsideBath
The pack is an issue, we have too many injury prone players to really be competitive all season.
For me though it's more of a concern that the coaches responsible for the pack and set piece haven't been replaced.

I think they are probably in the 'Last chance saloon' this coming season (Sm63)

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 17:52
N. Catt has been really unlucky - he had a clear season the year before and was fantastic. We need him to have another clear year with Beno out. Not that it matters to this thread, but lovely bloke too.

H.Thomas seems to never have fulfilled his potential due to lots of ailments of various types unfortunately...can AP keep that old body going on a regular basis in such an attritional position?

 
OBinFiji
OBinFiji (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
08 June, 2018 22:47
Two schools of thought
"The pack would be better with better scrum coaching."
"the pack would be better with Dave Attwood - in the powerhouse."

So, what was overlap between Neil Hatley and Dave Attwood. can you split the performances into Neither, both and one not the other? (would it mean anything?)

I'm of the view that Attwood went to France as his strengths better suit the way they play there - that way he could get match fitness more comfortably. I don't know that he has quite the dynamism of the top rated 2nd rows in English rugby - or whether he'd provide a different set of skills to the current frontrunners.

Be intrigued to see what he'd bring to the team if he does come back.

OBinFiji

(formerly OBinExile - but got exiled from my old email account!)

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 00:08
I agree with you Obin, I think there is an overlap between Hatley and Attwood and you make a great point which I have not seen mentioned here much, Attwood went to France as that is a game based purely on power and size and is a ridiculously slow game.

I still say that in 2018 in english rugby, Ewels is a better player, there is an obsession with Attwood at Bath that I do not get at all, good player, huge man, that does not make him a great second row. Ewels on the other hand is super talented and is way more dynamic than Attwood. I say a great scrum coach and more weight on Ewels who still looks smallish would transform your front 5. I really like Stooke and I think he will continue to get better.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 07:49
You have answered in your own post why Dave Atwood is held in such respect at Bath. Quite simply he is the finished article, Ewells isn't.

Ask yourself, don't you have a similar situation at Saracens with Isiekwe and Itoje?

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 08:08
Good points OB.

More recently at Bath we have had the mobility in our 2nd rows without the power (Stooke excluded) consequently we have struggled to break the gain line

Power provides the platform. Mobility enables you to strike back. A team needs both.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 08:23
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
there is an obsession with Attwood at Bath that I do not get at all, good player, huge man, that does not make him a great second row.

Replace Attwood and Bath with Skelton and Sarries and I'd agree with you. Oh and replace great second row with average player.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 08:27
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I still say that in 2018 in english rugby, Ewels is a better player, there is an obsession with Attwood at Bath that I do not get at all, good player, huge man, that does not make him a great second row.

Having watched what Attwood brings to the team in terms of the gain line and scrum in particular, I respectfully disagree. He may not be a champagne lock, but on form he has been awesome for us, just not for some time due to his injuries etc. If he is the 2014 Attwood again he would be an asset to most teams IMO... (Think we are crossing over to the other thread!)

 
Barnetsarrie12
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 10:33
Shipwrecked, we don't have the same situation at Sarries as Itoje is 23 years old and Attwood 31 so I don't get that comparison at all, Itoje is not the finished article as he is 23, I still would take based on the rugby you require for both international rugby and in the prem Ewels over Attwood personally.

BO, Skelton is a the perfect comp for Attwood, they both have played a little international rugby and were average at that level, they both are enormous men with Skelton being even bigger than Attwood and they both are good but not great locks even at premiership level and while I like Skelton, he is our 4th best lock.

BathMatt, I get your point about gain line and scrum, Attwood is a very good scrummager and gain line you have a point. I get that he has been awesome for you guys, I don't doubt that, I am saying that Ewels to me is an even better lock and will be even better for you guys providing he adds on some weight, which at 23 should not be hard to do. He is only going to get better and Attwood is about to come out of his prime which to me is 28-32 and Ewels is still 5 years away from it and is already really good.

Charlie Ewels to me has the potential to be post world cup a fixture in the 23 for England and a top 5 lock in the country maybe top 3, I don't think Attwood has ever been that.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 11:03
Trouble is that Ewels is a 4, Attwood a 5. I know there there is some cross over but they wouldn’t be competing for the same position at Bath, would be Stooke.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
09 June, 2018 15:02
The pack had been average with da and decent with da. He's a decent player but not what made a pack. Hats did seem to make that difference. We were average before and after and good with.

I appreciate what da has done for us, but in the hall of fame of even our recent locks he's some distance from a borthwick or grewcock.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
11 June, 2018 10:25
I think a lot of our players would thrive under different (better) coaching, much like Attwood at Toulon, that's the saddest thing.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
11 June, 2018 11:26
We don't have a problem in the 2nd row. We have options. The front row is another thing. If we are poor in that area, then it doesn't matter who plays at 9 or 10.

 
Tomato Soup
Tomato Soup (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
11 June, 2018 17:53
I would say that we have issues at loose head and tight head.

Both sides weak. No scrum = no ball & no points.

The weak links need to be addressed. At best we hold our own - we rarely impose ourselves in the way Leicester can or Leinster or Munster or Sarries.

That is the level required to win something.

Other clubs are making the transition from good to competitive at that level - we aren't until we get a platform to work from.

Got to be a last chance for Catt & Thomas.

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
11 June, 2018 18:39
IMHO Catt is a great loose head but he has injury issues in a department which is unforgiving it is make or break for him - Paz could be an absolute star next year he is now adapting to how we scrum in the NH and how referees interpret scrums so fingers crossed - TH on the other hand is an issue - Thomas is a great player but a weak scrummager - ML is a solid performer and AP can do a job - Delmas is unknown but to be fair I haven't met too many French props who couldn't scrummage - the problem we have especially now we have lost Obamo for the season is the pack just lacks size and power - there is no one player in the pack like Nathan Hughes or BV - what we do have is a pack of ball handlers and technicians - on the dry hard surfaces we will always be a match for anyone.

But we are not a powerhouse up front and we have to adapt our game plan suitably - I cannot see us bringing in 2 or 3 20 Stone animals by the start of the season, so it is a case of adapting to what we have got - which ain't that bad.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 06:54
I keep thinking about this because I do fear we are underpowered & under resourced in the prop department. Can someone tell me where we will be when Catt & Thomas are on the treatment table as I fear that may well be the case more often than not.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 07:00
The club has already said that it is looking for a LHP replacement for Obano.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 07:15
I just go back to the Tigers game (I think it was that one), when we got beat up in the scrum and it looked like all of them were going to result in a penalty. You cannot afford this in the Premiership. You need to have parity.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 07:45
But all that game really told us is that Knight wasn't up to it. Even when the brand new, and not entirely heavyweight, French guy came on our scrums became passable.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 08:34
Genge was beating up a lot of THPs at the end of last season, some significantly better than a Knight who had barely played for a season. Thomas, Lahiff and AP will help.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 10:03
They will help only if fit and stay fit Matt.

We need a teak tough rough house tight head who doesn't get broken every 5 minutes and also a similar second row. Atters would be my choice to fill the latter role and Stooker is getting better but is not the finished article. Ewels may be a brain box but he certainly doesn't carry the physical attributes and presence you associate with top class second rows able to dominate opponents.

Now that young French under 20s prop looks as if he could develope into the sort of ball playing mobile tough guy that might fill the THP position.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 10:20
Quote:
Bathovalballer
They will help only if fit and stay fit Matt.

Well quite - similar to the other 45-odd players in the squad in fact!

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
13 June, 2018 10:46
Quote:
Bathovalballer
They will help only if fit and stay fit Matt.
what the hell is the point to that comment?
"But what happens if we simultaneously suffer 4 injuries in one position?"
Well, we play the 5th and 6th THPs, rather obviously.
What? You mean we only have 5 senior? Which is more than any other club at THP? Why don't we have more? Everyone knows you need at least 8 players for each position in the pack! Squads really should be at least 100 strong!



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
14 June, 2018 14:11
Fourth choice Knight was playing his second game for 12 months against Genge.

I'd like to see how Tigers would have managed if they were playing a fourth choice tighthead playing his second game in 12 months against Obano.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
15 June, 2018 11:07
[www.bristolpost.co.uk]

The 10 amazing rugby players still without a club for 2018/19

....

10. Paul Doran-Jones

Shurley shum mishtake?

 
Ali1969
Ali1969 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
17 June, 2018 12:52
I am sure we will find cover for OBANO - I think we need to understand we will not be the most devastating scrummaging outfit next season but we will be able to hold our own with at least 80% if not more of the other AP sides.

I do not buy into the idea that Charlie Ewels and Elliot Stooke are soft and bad scrummagers - that is a lot of tosh - I do not hear anyone saying the same of Itoje!! indeed I heard Martin Bayfield talking the other day about Doddie Weir who weighed only 13 Stone when he initially played international rugby.

The fact is the huge heavy lock days are numbered - Scrummaging is all about technique - Yes of course if you are playing on a waterlogged pitch the heavy pack will always shove you around due to their weight otherwise it is all about positions, timing and snapping - something the All Blacks have mastered for many years..

The other huge part about scrummaging is how the referee interprets the scrum - one week you can destroy a team and the following you can be penalised out of the game.

I have to say I am looking forward to next season more than usual - our players will be refreshed having not toured and hopefully long term injuries will be rectified and I am really excited to see what Girvan Dempsey brings to the table.

On another note I was talking to someone the other day who is well connected to the Quins board - they seemed rather excited about some potential changes and transfers which they would not elaborate on.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
19 June, 2018 16:19
Bit of a shame we couldn't have hijacked this one, a stack of cash mind you (but would Cardiff be paying anything like that?).

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
19 June, 2018 16:50
Quote:
BathMatt53
Bit of a shame we couldn't have hijacked this one, a stack of cash mind you (but would Cardiff be paying anything like that?).
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Absolutely Matt, missed out there! Odd things going on there in relation to transfers out as well. Danny Wilson was off to Wasps one minute now her is the Scot's forward coach!

But Arhip would have been perfect for us.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 06:56
Time for the new recruitment guy to get us a couple of Georgian or South African props, who we have never heard of, but who can keep the opposition honest.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 19:31
Given the lack of quality recruitment for the pack it's probably fair to assume Blackadder is happy to go with a weak pack.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 19:36
Quote:
OutsideBath
Given the lack of quality recruitment for the pack it's probably fair to assume Blackadder is happy to go with a weak pack.

Either that or he and his recruitment team are working their socks off to get someone in who is decent. After all, its only been 3 weeks since Beno hurt himself and everyone has been on holiday since then anyway. Happy to reserve judgement until the first game of the season TBH.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 19:42
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Given the lack of quality recruitment for the pack it's probably fair to assume Blackadder is happy to go with a weak pack.

Either that or he and his recruitment team are working their socks off to get someone in who is decent. After all, its only been 3 weeks since Beno hurt himself and everyone has been on holiday since then anyway. Happy to reserve judgement until the first game of the season TBH.

The pack was weak before Beno was crocked by England.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 20:04
Loosehead was fine with Beno, Paz and Catty there IMO (not anymore obvs). Its TH that is the ongoing concern for me, need to cover them all in bubblewrap.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 20:29
Beno, Catt and Paz are all fine options at LHPs
Dunn, Batty and Webber are all fine options at HK
Thomas, Perenise and Lahiff are all fine options at THP

We only look weak in the front row if you insist on looking at our 5th/6th choice options compared to other clubs 1st/2nd choices - so standard practice on this board



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 20:35
Webber ???

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 20:48
Quote:
TG Kesmo
Webber ???
bollox - Walker
My brain seems to have checked out



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
20 June, 2018 21:25
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
TG Kesmo
Webber ???
bollox - Walker
My brain seems to have checked out

Surprising given the big clue of your adoptee. Mind you my brain fades regularly after a couple of pints.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
21 June, 2018 07:28
Quote:
TG Kesmo
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
TG Kesmo
Webber ???
bollox - Walker
My brain seems to have checked out

Surprising given the big clue of your adoptee. Mind you my brain fades regularly after a couple of pints.
nah, that clue was way too subtle for me


A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
21 June, 2018 09:13
We are desperately short at LH.
Pre-season starts when.........?
There has to be firm contact with 1 or perhaps 2 players out there!
Are agents being unusually coy?
Ipso-facto where are the rumour-mongers pointing?

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 07:07
We must be confident that lahiff and catt are fit... Uh oh...

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 08:31
I am not sure that any of the props mentioned, Obano included, are going to dominate their opponents in that European group. We have an 8th to 10th place front row.

 
Danchinho
Danchinho (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 10:34
Quote:
Which Tyler
Beno, Catt and Paz are all fine options at LHPs
Dunn, Batty and Webber are all fine options at HK
Thomas, Perenise and Lahiff are all fine options at THP

We only look weak in the front row if you insist on looking at our 5th/6th choice options compared to other clubs 1st/2nd choices - so standard practice on this board

I don't believe you've seen a performance from Paz that's left you impressed.
I doubt you've seen enough of Walker at all tbh (although i also think he's probably good, conjecture though).
Blatantly Thomas has not been available nearly enough and, unfortunately, a penalty magnet when he has been.
So, take those 3 away as i don't think there's evidence to the contrary and it doesn't look so awesome.
Perenise was pretty good, surprisingly so given his age.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/06/2018 10:35 by Danchinho.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 10:43
I seem to remember, when I was watching the AP final, they put the stats up and I was surprised to note that, statistically, Exeter and Sarries had two of the worst scrums in the league, 9th and 11th or something.

I know that is conflating scrum and pack, but I get the impression that's what a lot of people are talking about.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 11:17
Exeter and Sarries do not have the two worst scrums in the league. They need to have a serious look at how they come up with those stats.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 12:23
[www.espn.in]

Scrummaging props not as important anymore anyway (according to Joe Marler). OK a terrible one will cause you problems (or one playing poorly like at the clash) but one who crushes everyone every time may not be worth the cash any more. I guess those who are worth the money are those that hold their own the scrum but offer a lot more around the field - like Furlong or even Genge.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 12:35
The club are trying to address the poor injury record with a new medical team, but we will still be left with the poor coaching problem.



Jack Wilson - Adopted player 2017/18

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 12:39
I am not sure, but I would think that there are more penalties awarded per scrum than 10 years ago. It is still a great way to get points. Be it from these penalties or from 5 metre scrums. The best in the business can all scrummage at the top table. I am not sure that Marler has shown that on the international stage.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 12:48
Quote:
cb2
Exeter and Sarries do not have the two worst scrums in the league. They need to have a serious look at how they come up with those stats.

Is it because both of those teams are expert at keeping possession? Their handling errors are minimised from their close, pick n drive playing style when in the final quarter and their attacking back plays are strong but tend to be low risk

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: The pack is still an issue
22 June, 2018 12:53
Last season there were a lot more 'ball is available, play it' calls from people like Wayne B I noticed, even when it had collapsed.

World rugby obviously thought they were effective - it had passed me by that the trial laws were passed as permanent ones last month.

[www.englandrugby.com]


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