rugbyunion
Latest News:

The COML Message Board

The place for discussion, debate and nonsense about Bath Rugby.

Join our new Facebook Group today!

New visitors please read the house rules before posting

Test your prognostications at our Prediction League


P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 07:05
Just got a Press Release from the Club re Katie Warriner -excellent pedigree:

"Sports Performance Psychologist and Mental Skills Coach, Katie Warriner will join Bath Rugby ahead of the 18/19 campaign.

Warriner is highly regarded in her field and has supported multiple Olympic athletes and World Champions within the incredibly successful Team GB.

Most recently, Katie has worked as Senior Team Mental Skills Coach with England and Great Britain Hockey, adding to the excellent reputation she’s developed in Sports Psychology over the past four seasons supporting head coach Simon Amor with England Sevens Rugby.

In Katie’s role she will drive performance by working with the coaches and the players developing individual and collective strategies and skill sets to cope with the variety of mind-related areas of high performance sport.

Commenting on her appointment, Katie Warriner said; “Psychology and mental skills coaching now play an essential role in the world of professional sport and it's a privilege to be working in this area with elite players, coaches and leaders. My goal is to help those I work with understand that there is a fundamental psychological process involved in delivering a successful performance and, if you focus on the process, and invest time getting that right first, the results absolutely follow. I've been inspired by the vision at Bath Rugby and very much look forward to working with the team to further strengthen their mental game and to thrive amidst the demands of high performance sport."

Todd Blackadder, Director of Rugby commented; “It can be incredibly challenging to manage both the mental and physical side of the game. Our players and coaches are focused on delivering performances week in, week out, and everyone at the Club lives and breathes the game. You can’t underestimate the psychological impact this has, especially when we are focused on delivering the consistent level of performance that was lacking at times during 2017/18. Katie has shown real expertise in this area, she will provide a much-needed additional dimension to our support structures and I am sure that she will make an invaluable contribution for 2018/19 and beyond.”
Tarquin McDonald, Chief Executive remarked;
“Katie has shown real expertise and a clear capability to work within team sports and embed herself with the players, coaching team and staff of an organisation to help achieve outstanding results. Whilst we have previously been providing tactical sports psychology support in specific instances, we have been focused for some time on finding the right person to embed in our team and deliver a deeper and longer lasting impact. We are delighted to welcome Katie to the Club, she is an exceptional practitioner and brings with her a unique skill set that will help us to provide the right support to our players both as individuals and collectively, as well as the coaching and support teams.”

Katie’s appointment is part of Bath Rugby’s long-term plan for developing the right support structures to deliver successful and consistent performances in both domestic and European rugby."

PG



P G Tips



Paul Grant: my adopted Player, 2017-18.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/06/2018 20:31 by P G Tips.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 07:16
That is great news - another piece in the jigsaw. If I remember correctly that just leaves a fitness guru & a replacement for Obano as well as Atwood maintaining his firm commitment to return to us. Personally I would also like extra cover for the props & centres, both areas I fear will be depleted by injuries.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 07:17
Could be the best piece of recruitment we've done in many years and great to see her brief includes support for the coaches

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 08:28
Great news. Things are looking more and more up. Welcome Katie.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 08:48
Excellent news. Long time coming.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 09:27
It is great to have one but can club rugby afford to appoint such people and still make a profit? The competitive element in the game drives clubs to such things but the money in the game is not huge and I can't see it making a massive jump in the next couple of years.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 09:30
Agree, if she has worked with the hockey team they have proved to be mentally resilient, remember the last player penalty shootout! Excellent news.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 09:34
Every top team has a sports psychologist - you need to get out more cb2.


Its one of the elements that was painfully obvious to see last season with the seesawing of results and the body language of the team at times. Good luck to her- it wont be easy with all the personalities involved at the top of the club.



Adoptee for 2017/18 James Phillips - newly arrived and bringing a wealth of experience in the Prem!

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 10:11
"It is great to have one but can club rugby afford to appoint such people and still make a profit? "

How much can we be paying her? I can't imagine its more than one top line player, and its outside the cap, and to me could be easily more valuable any one given player if we get more out of all 23.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 10:25
The prem salary cap is £7m. There are ~45 players in the cap. If you could improve 50% of them by 5% that's worth £175k. I suspect she's not on anything like that.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 10:41
Hopefully Katie can work her wonder andvinstill some real dog and backbone and clear thinking when under pressure into the players. Also generate a real sense of togetherness and team spirit and mutual support. Regrettably the DA situation doesn't help one iota!

Now please can we announce two new forward signings, a teak tough prop, ideally a tight head and a similar bruiser for the second row. ( I assume Obano's replacement will be temporary.)

Forget about centres and backs, build a huge, teak tough pack, preferably with some mobility, as without the ball winning forwards the backs are not going to contribute much to win games.

Winning regularly will also help with the psychology!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/06/2018 10:42 by Bathovalballer.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 10:41
Hasta - does performing better mean making more money? Exeter seem to be doing okay with the money side of things and performance, but Sarries are struggling and you can hardly get more successful than them.

My point, Annie, is that most clubs are losing money but they continue to appoint people as if the pro game is doing great. Turning a profit means getting in more money or reducing the amount going out or both. It would be great to have a team of coaches and behind the scene staff but if you cannot afford them, then you cannot afford them.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 10:43
Quote:
Bath Hammer
That is great news - another piece in the jigsaw. If I remember correctly that just leaves a fitness guru.

Correct BH - that was the briefing. Obviously injuries since then and The Attwood situation have added to the recruiting needs but the Strength & Conditioning appointment would complete the support staff plan.

PG

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 11:41
Quote:
cb2
Hasta - does performing better mean making more money? Exeter seem to be doing okay with the money side of things and performance, but Sarries are struggling and you can hardly get more successful than them.
My point, Annie, is that most clubs are losing money but they continue to appoint people as if the pro game is doing great. Turning a profit means getting in more money or reducing the amount going out or both. It would be great to have a team of coaches and behind the scene staff but if you cannot afford them, then you cannot afford them.

Exe money is down to the non-rugby commercial infrastructure etc which makes them an absolute packet. I don’t think that any club is making money if you just focus on the rugby finances.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 11:59
"Hasta - does performing better mean making more money?"

Well, for one thing, yes. If you do better you will make more money over time.

Secondly, yes. If we can get a decent AP player to perform as a international, that would save us money.

Thirdly, yes. A lot of time spend injured is as much down to the mental condition of a player as physical. Think Mike Catt and Irish. If we can get players mentally fit it means a smaller squad which will cost less.

If she's good she could very well end up in us saving money.

 
Ian E
Ian E (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 12:24
Dave Attwood might be in a different place had we had a Sports Psycholgist in place?

 
Beergoggles
Beergoggles (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 15:45
Good appointment. Pointless spending lots of dosh on players if you can't get them physically and mentally right.

Actually might be worth appointing a mind coach for the posters on ERE .. maybe balance out the cycle that fluctuates from world beaters to no hopers dependent on the most recent result.

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 18:42
Quote:
hasta
The prem salary cap is £7m. There are ~45 players in the cap. If you could improve 50% of them by 5% that's worth £175k. I suspect she's not on anything like that.

That’s some quality maths, Carol Vorderman

 
Rolfs_Cartoon_Club
@Hydor18 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 18:58
Quote:
cb2
Hasta - does performing better mean making more money? Exeter seem to be doing okay with the money side of things and performance, but Sarries are struggling and you can hardly get more successful than them.

I think the more appropriate description in relation to rugby is that performing better makes clubs lose less.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
14 June, 2018 19:38
Perform better, win more, sell more tickets, sell more merch. Ignoring the savings points also made above.

 
cookiecrumble
cookiecrumble (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 06:46
In a sort of comparison, I work in civil engineering and Health, Safety & Welfare is a massive part of a project cost nowadays. But, that is not what brings the money in, what the contractor gets paid for etc. However, cutting that HS&W budget is a serious risk. I see this as a similar cost that should be factored in. And similarly, a client looks favourably on a contractor that takes HS&W seriously. A player would/could be drawn to a club that takes that side of performance seriously.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 06:50
Has that happened with Sarries? They have been in a lot of finals but don't pack them in.

Has it happened with us? We seem to get the same amount of gate, regardless of if we are winning or losing.

Do you get that much more for winning a competition?

It should be the case that success = profit, but it is not that simple with rugby.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 08:00
I guess that the value of your sponsorship goes up? You undoubtedly sell more merchandise too if you end up at finals etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/06/2018 08:00 by BathMatt53.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 08:14
Lack of success eventually gets you relegated.

The income doesn't increase then.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 08:27
Cb2 makes a fair point with the proviso of the threat of relegation. However, if money is invested to improve the team it leads to more positivity & confience and hopefully success, everyone feels uplifted & it spreads beyond the Club & no doubt helps the wider economy which is clearly a good thing.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 09:10
"Has that happened with Sarries? They have been in a lot of finals but don't pack them in. "

Yes, it has happened with Sarries. They used to get 5-6k at Vicarage Road (with plenty of surplus seats) now they get close to their 10k capacity.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 09:12
I hope so but the Sarries situation is a worry. If they can't turn a profit, when they are doing about the best they can, then what hope is there for the pro game? A much bigger TV deal is the only solution I can see.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 10:14
IF there really is only loss in rugby clubs, i worry they are used for all sorts of accounting, so the losses we see aren't really the full story, then the only solution is for us to pay more or the players ( and others) to be paid less. But a single employee isn't going to make the difference.

Will we pay more for our season tickets, TV subscriptions etc? Probably a little, but I think we're not far from an optimum point. So we have to pay the players less. Which is what makes BC's drive for marquee players and higher caps so frustrating because he's created an environment where not only is he going to lose money but also we are totally dependent on people such as him.

I think we need to dump the marquee players and have a cap freeze until breaking even is feasible for most clubs. Sorry for the players, but they can only get paid in proportion to the money in the game and right now you're being paid more than that.

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 22:40
Quote:
DanWiley
IF there really is only loss in rugby clubs, i worry they are used for all sorts of accounting, so the losses we see aren't really the full story, then the only solution is for us to pay more or the players ( and others) to be paid less. But a single employee isn't going to make the difference.
Will we pay more for our season tickets, TV subscriptions etc? Probably a little, but I think we're not far from an optimum point. So we have to pay the players less. Which is what makes BC's drive for marquee players and higher caps so frustrating because he's created an environment where not only is he going to lose money but also we are totally dependent on people such as him.

I think we need to dump the marquee players and have a cap freeze until breaking even is feasible for most clubs. Sorry for the players, but they can only get paid in proportion to the money in the game and right now you're being paid more than that.
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=267
Well, he probably doesn't, but I do.
IMO the cap increased too much too soon with that 50% increase over 2 seasons 1-3 years ago.
Most clubs annual debts are less than that increase. Get rid of marquees, and freeze the cap for 2-3 years, and reassess then.
I'm always tempted to link a clubs' salary cap to their earnings, but it seems anti-competitive and rife for abuse



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/06/2018 05:12 by Which Tyler.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
15 June, 2018 23:12
Maybe a rugby version of Dive Ball's financial fair play regulations? That seems to have stamped out the worst of the excesses there. Unless you're Paris Sant-Germain, of course.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
16 June, 2018 05:20
Quote:
joethefanatic
Maybe a rugby version of Dive Ball's financial fair play regulations? That seems to have stamped out the worst of the excesses there. Unless you're Paris Sant-Germain, of course.
I don't know ownhow football does it, but I can't see a way to implement it that doesn't exacerbate the divide between the haves and the have-nots.
Do you base it on income? In which case, Bruce goes out and buys a property development company under the Bath Rugby umbrella, and Stay retaliates with Saracens Pharmaceuticals...
Do you base it on crowd size? In which case Bath leave the Rec after all, build a 50,000 seater with tickets at £5-£10, free to any school children...



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
16 June, 2018 06:01
Quote:
Which Tyler
Quote:
joethefanatic
Maybe a rugby version of Dive Ball's financial fair play regulations? That seems to have stamped out the worst of the excesses there. Unless you're Paris Sant-Germain, of course.
I don't know ownhow football does it, but I can't see a way to implement it that doesn't exacerbate the divide between the haves and the have-nots.
Do you base it on income? In which case, Bruce goes out and buys a property development company under the Bath Rugby umbrella, and Stay retaliates with Saracens Pharmaceuticals...
Do you base it on crowd size? In which case Bath leave the Rec after all, build a 50,000 seater with tickets at £5-£10, free to any school children...

"...a club’s outgoings in transfers, employee benefits (including wages), amortisation of transfers, finance costs and dividends will be counted over income from gate receipts, TV revenue, advertising, merchandising, disposal of tangible fixed assets, finance, sales of players and prize money." Wikipedia.

This first should not exceed the second. So building a bigger stadium (and filling it with paying patrons) would definitely help.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
16 June, 2018 06:14
The FFP doesn’t work like that WT - Man City were potentially in trouble for sponsoring themselves a gazillion pounds (ie over market rate) to cover their losses. You can build loads of commercial infrastructure and offset that though (like Man City and Exe).

 
MESSAGES->author
Which Tyler (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
16 June, 2018 09:30
Joe - that still looks tomme like the richer the club, the higher their cap; somthe haves get ever more, whilst have-nots get ever less.



A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/download/file.php?id=377
RAEBURN SHIELD

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Sports Psychologist
17 June, 2018 12:37
I don't think individual club income should be anything to do with it. Why should your financial success dictate your sporting success?

Even if your financial success isn't down to how well you run your conference centre or pharmaceutical business and it's because your team is based in a big city with an affluent population, should that really give you an advantage?

I'd hope we all agree that don't want sporting success to be based on having the richest owner?

Success on the field will breed success on the field, that seems right and proper. With any luck that might mean you make some money, though to be honest running a rugby club as a not for profit entity that reinvests any money make back into the game or is infrastructure would be the way I'd like to go.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?