rugbyunion
Latest News:

The COML Message Board

The place for discussion, debate and nonsense about Bath Rugby.

Join our new Facebook Group today!

New visitors please read the house rules before posting

Test your prognostications at our Prediction League


Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

England side up
15 November, 2018 11:09
All of a sudden all the Bath lot are in the side - just when we need them most! Well done Joe, Charlie and Zach though.

England starting XV

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 23 caps), 14 Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, uncapped), 13 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 28 caps), 12 Alex Lozowski (Saracens, 4 caps), 11 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 41 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 49 caps) captain, 9 Danny Care (Harlequins, 83 caps), 1 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 4 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 30 caps), 3 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 13 caps), 4 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), 5 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 24 caps) vice-captain, 6 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 66 caps), 7 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 6 caps), 8 Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby, 1 cap).

Finishers
16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 95 caps), 17 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 2 caps), 18 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 15 caps), 19 Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, uncapped), 20 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 7 caps), 21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 31 caps), 22 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 63 caps), 23 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps).

 
BathBurger
BathBurger (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 11:11
Part of my loves this, part of me worries weíre not taking Japan quite as seriously as we should be.

Thrilled for big Joe. Hope he gets a good chance to impose himself!

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 11:16
Big game for Lozowski. He is a bit like Slade, with a lot of potential but little credit in the bank. Also interested in Nowell at 13.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 11:26
Great news for our boys - Joe C & Zach especially.

What though will Eddie learn about Wigglesworth? Would much rather have seen Robson or Spencer there.

PG

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 11:32
Is Elliot Stooke coming back to Bath or travelling reserce?



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 11:44
I'm really pleased that he's gone for such a radical side. So he should. With all due respect to Japan, England should be able to field 4 sides capable of beating them.

I reckon George will have a field day. Of course, it may not all click into place, but Lozowski at 12 and Nowell at 13 are really exciting possibilities.

It's also time for Jamie George to have a big, big game. It's been unchallenged orthodoxy that he is the best hooker in England for quite some time, and that Hartley is only clinging on to his place due to being captain. But it's a long time since George has really stood out in an England shirt. He's suddenly got a lot to prove IMO.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 11:48
Wigglesworth is the safe pair of hands behind the chosen 2. I can see the sense in it. He is an international quality box kicker but lacks a bit around the field. The other guys have simple run out of time.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 11:54
Don't you just feel for Elliott Stooke?

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 12:12
Looking forward to it shou;ld be fun, is it on Sky again?

 
dcsh
dcsh (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 12:23
Quote:
johnnyf
Don't you just feel for Elliott Stooke?
Yes, I would have liked to see him get a cap.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 12:35
I think Eddie's left it too late with any other scrum-halves, and he might as well stick with Wigglesworth, who will probably make a very good Tournament, 3rd choice 9. He's fit as a butcher's dog, will love the opportunity, and if he starts one or two pool games will deliver the script.

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 12:45
Quote:
cb2
Wigglesworth is the safe pair of hands behind the chosen 2. I can see the sense in it. He is an international quality box kicker but lacks a bit around the field. The other guys have simple run out of time.
j
He doesnt run around and make a break but neither does Youngs of late and he is a better passer and kicker than the incumbent Imv.

Jones won't go wide so he picks accordingly.

Even with average scrum ball, Ford should pick this team off, and if they don't or can't, then they should not be going to the RWC.

I'd like to have seen Robo get a go but he is injured now.
Spencer was 3Rd or 4th choice and this would have been the ideal game.
Pleased for Joe C if they get the ball to him but unless anyone has a stormer, they won't really progress much.

The fact that Jones sees Wigglesworth as an option, tells you all about his ambition for the rwc.
It is as if he does not want to risk his bonus for a top four place, in favour of actually trying to win the thing which he was brought in for.

On the younger players, there is alot of pressure because they are expected to win well. If they don't, then that will mark their card.

 
cookiecrumble
cookiecrumble (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 12:46
I thought Itoje was seen as a future England captain. This couldíve been the opportunity to give him that responsibility.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 12:51
Quote:
cookiecrumble
I thought Itoje was seen as a future England captain. This couldíve been the opportunity to give him that responsibility.

Mr penalty magnet? Great choice.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 13:33
Yes indeed, Itoje conceded a total of...well...none against NZ. Besides, Eddie isn't exactly averse to making pen / YC magnets captain - he loves those 'edgy' players.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Bath85
Bath85 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 13:33
Louw also with SA, we are looking light in the back row, which is ridiculous considering how well stocked it is...

maybe we have to go:

6.Garvey
7.Ellis
8.Baylis

Douglas has cover on bench...

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 13:44
Douglas is one of the few who has done OK in the cup, I would go

6: Douglas
7: Ellis
8: Baylis

Bench: Garvey (to cover back row and lock)



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 14:07
Agree Bath Matt. On form alone that is the right pick. Anything less would not be wise as we want guys who can compete and get around the field.



Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa Rokoduguni

The Rock that is Semesa and how he will be rocking this season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/11/2018 15:41 by Bathovalballer.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 14:11
Who is the number 3 hooker?

 
Bath85
Bath85 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 14:21
You might be right on form, but i suspect the captain will start either at 5 or 6......Douglas IMHO looks real quality, and i hope gets the nod.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 15:50
Re JG best hooker but DH in team only cos captain: ABs game arguably lost in second half when JG came on and line-out fell apart due to less good throwing?
Apologies if done to death on another thread.

FLAP

 
sirtidychris
sirtidychris (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 16:12
Bath Hookers
1) Dunn
2) Walker and Batty equal ?

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 17:06
I am dying to see Daly at 13 so would move Nowell to 15....



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 20:00
What is it Eddie has about playing people out of position?

A centre at 15, a wing at 13, a second row at 6.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 20:27
A question I have also pondered BnG and am still grasping to answer...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 20:45
I think it's cos you don't get to draft in new players to your RWC squad to make up for injuries. So players who can effectively play in more than one position become very valuable.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 20:51
Exactly my thoughts JTF - this game is being used as we have wanted to see him using them for years...try a few new in-form people out, others in multiple positions to see if they are good as squad players for the group games in Japan / bench options etc.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 21:46
Quote:
joethefanatic
I think it's cos you don't get to draft in new players to your RWC squad to make up for injuries. So players who can effectively play in more than one position become very valuable.

I could accept that if we were certain about the best first choice player for each position and I don't think we are yet.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 22:26
A year out Iím not sure we should be yet. Plenty of time for big injuries or someone to go totally off form. Really hoping that big JC goes well this weekend, I think he could be invaluable in 12 months time if he gets a few games under his belt - very different option to the other wingers.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 23:25
Quote:
BathMatt53
A year out Iím not sure we should be yet. Plenty of time for big injuries or someone to go totally off form. Really hoping that big JC goes well this weekend, I think he could be invaluable in 12 months time if he gets a few games under his belt - very different option to the other wingers.

Shhh, don't say that, Eddie will have him at inside centre at the 6N in preference to Te'o.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
15 November, 2018 23:41
Really hope he goes well, he offers a real threat to the 10/12 channel coming in off the blindside wing in a similar way to Ashton at speed he is a real hand full.

That back 3 is a real threat in attack, not sure about defence but I'll go with the outscoring method.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
22Dropout
22Dropout (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
16 November, 2018 07:43
Is Grant injured?

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
16 November, 2018 07:48
Are you sure you are on the right thread 22Dropout?

And the answer is....yes (but hopefully back soon).


PG

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
16 November, 2018 07:51
Is Douglas going to be one who isnít quite big enough for lock and not quite dynamic enough for the back row? Or is he the next Tom Ellis?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
16 November, 2018 08:32
Tom Ellis is more of an athlete I think, Douglas appears to be more a confrontational 6. I think that they should complement each other well.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 15:10
Japan having a really great tactical game, playing like Barbarians! England B team a mess.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 15:23
England being shown how to.play and they're not responding well. George fully engaged in the process of blowing his RWC chances.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 16:02
JC scores his first try for England!!

28 v 15

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 16:08
Score flatters. Well done Japan. Mercer and Ewels miles away from taking their opportunities.

Itoje MoM?



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/11/2018 16:10 by BathMatt53.

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 16:14
FT

35 v 15

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 16:19
I think faz is the starting 10 from here on in.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 16:34
I do think Ford is busted but agree Farrell brings something.
Thought Japan embarrassed us at times.

I'm not sure England can draw any positives from that...though one or two players will think they did ok...others have to be worried.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 16:37
Quote:
John Tee
I do think Ford is busted but agree Farrell brings something.
Thought Japan embarrassed us at times.

I'm not sure England can draw any positives from that...though one or two players will think they did ok...others have to be worried.

I canít think of one. Hepburn is not International class, Williams, Ewels, Mercer, Lozowski, Ford hugely average (and thatís being nice).



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 22:51
I think Joe C did enough but can't understand what Zach Mercer was doing jogging between breakdowns, hardly saw him sprint or carry. At least Underhill got involved when he came on.

Ewels made 18 tackles missing none. Pretty awful game really.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
17 November, 2018 23:25
Joe C scoring on debut hasn't done him any harm.
That first half will have blighted some though.

The big gainers could be people who didn't play...or came on to see the day.

 
sirtidychris
sirtidychris (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 08:13
I think Eddie's post match interview showed that he wasn't overwhelmed with big Joe, sort of staying he's a brilliant rugby player and will get alot of caps but not sure when the next one will come. I think Joe did well for a young guy on his first cap but did nothing to say he will surplant Watson, may just yet.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 09:43
I think that is fair given we have Watson, May, Nowell and Ashton, when fit, however, for his first game he did OK.

The problem is building a defensive back three, to see a flanker causing mayhem on the wings is worrying and I've yet to see how we would cope with a kicking game. Watson and May seemed to have had that sorted with Brown at 15. I'm not so sure now.

IMV Daly still needs to prove himself or we might well see the return of Brown.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 09:49
Daly isnít an international 15 by any stretch imo.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 10:24
Really enjoyed the Ireland v AB's match. Two teams confident in their abilities, fitness, and gameplans to slog it out and throw everything at the other side in "last man standing" team effort. Some years since I've seen that sustained level either at Bath or with England. Please don't assume I'm, just having a go at Bath coz I'm not - its just the state of most English professional top rugby currently.

 
Lee Bideaux
Armchair Fan (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 10:48
I'd like to sound a note of appreciation about Japan. They were a joy to watch and a lot of their passing and ambition was eliciting a lot of 'oohs' and 'aahs' around HQ. I am sure they made a lot of friends.

They are a serious side (ask South Africa) and I look forward to seeing how they kick on in the next few years.



_____________________________________________________

I like turtles.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 11:44
A quick question for any refs, why was George given a yellow card? It looked like a tackle situation only, no ruck was formed, ball was loose, no offside line, no support from Japan.
I must have missed a law change?

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 11:50
Tackle creates an offside line now.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 11:55
Quote:
hasta
Tackle creates an offside line now.

So with the ball loose and the tackled player on the ground, what did George need to do to be legal? There wasn't a Japan player in support, he couldn't be expected to just wait until Japan turned up to claim a loose ball.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
18 November, 2018 12:26
Stay on his feet, not dive over the tackled and kill the ball.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 08:15
It was a bit worrying to hear them talk of "attitude" changing at half time. Shouldn't that be sorted before the game? We seemed to have no way of breaking them, when they rushed from outside to in. We kept trying to pass it over them, when we should have been breaking holes by running straight and keeping them honest. Without the Vunipolas, we really have no power ball carriers. Itoje and Lawes have a go at it but they are solid more than spectacular. We need some power in there and a clever playmaker like Goode. The centres are a real worry for me. Lets hope Tuilagi and JJ can get fit and work together.

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 08:59
What is worrying is that it took Farrell to come on at half time to gain a degree of momentum.
Ford couldn't do that himself. We know Care can't play for England like he does for Quins, from the start so pretty rudderless against a spirited Japanese side who got put away quite easily in the second half after we worked out how to play them.
No disrespect to Japan but we should have been posing out game on them far sooner. Imv.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 09:07
It was always going to be difficult for Japan to keep up that intensity for 80 mins. It would be interesting to see a 2nd test against them this Saturday, see if they had the same tactics and what Jones would do with the England setup.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 09:24
Seems like the easy option to credit Farrell with changing the game - but a lot of the reports also suggest that Japan ran out of steam in the final quarter. That would have happened irrespective of whether it was Farrell who came on, or any other of England's much stronger than Japan bench options.

England are historically and innately @#$%& at dealing with teams who don't do what they're supposed to do. But they have still never lost to the a team outside of the top 8 in the world rankings (or top 9 if you take Argentina's current rank).

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 09:28
Quote:
Optimist
Seems like the easy option to credit Farrell with changing the game - but a lot of the reports also suggest that Japan ran out of steam in the final quarter. That would have happened irrespective of whether it was Farrell who came on, or any other of England's much stronger than Japan bench options.
England are historically and innately @#$%& at dealing with teams who don't do what they're supposed to do. But they have still never lost to the a team outside of the top 8 in the world rankings (or top 9 if you take Argentina's current rank).

I agree, England woke up in the second half, it wasnt Farrel. I was no fan of Lancaster, but in his time England played with an intensity from the first minute of the game, for a while that lasted with Eddie, but it's totally gone

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 09:36
England just played better rugby under Lancaster. It's also pretty interesting to see the amount of credit Andy Farrell is getting for Ireland's first ever win over NZ, given that he was widely derided on here around the last World Cup.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 09:53
"England just played better rugby under Lancaster. "

No we didn't. We played pretty aimless rugby then, we're playing pretty aimless rugby now.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 10:11
Quote:
Optimist
England just played better rugby under Lancaster. It's also pretty interesting to see the amount of credit Andy Farrell is getting for Ireland's first ever win over NZ, given that he was widely derided on here around the last World Cup.

Regarding Farrell, he was castigated over his involvement in selection rather than his coaching if I remember correctly.
Lancaster did have an ability to get the backs playing great attacking rugby, its no surprise to me that 5 of the match squad are Leinster players the team he coaches.

Edit NB I'm referring to the backs



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/11/2018 10:30 by shipwrecked.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 11:00
I am not sure anyone 1-23 did themselves too many favours in that Japan game. It is a classic case of playing the big game ahead of a potential banana skin. A lot of people would have been more up for it if it was New Zealand next week instead of last week. As it stands people were aware this was a second string England side for the most part and Japan had nothing to lose.

We should also be aware that, particularly in the backs, this was a very different backline. After all Ford-Lozowski-Nowell probably wouldn't have been a midfield anybody thought they would see this series! As a result I think it would be unfair for EJ to rate Joe Cokanasiga on that game. I thought he looked powerful when he did get the ball, if not a little green at times. Poor performances from those inside of him won't help him shine sadly playing out on the wing!

Reliance on Farrell a concern for me. We do look have the side without him in the mix somewhere.



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 11:05
Zach Mercer dropped from the squad with Alex Lozowski and Danny Care, Underhill, Ewels and Joe C retained. Seems Hughes is back, hope that Zach is not being dismissed as a lightweight like Simmonds!



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/11/2018 11:09 by shipwrecked.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 11:19
Piers Francis! We need answers to our midfield problems but he is not it.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 11:34
Squad of 28 retained. Presumably Joe C is there as cover for Ashton injury.

Which 5 will drop out of match-day squad?

Ted Hill and Stooke
one of Teo/Tuilagi
one of Joe C/Ashton
one of Francis/Nowell/Slade - probably Francis

Is Care injured - along with the dismissal of Brown - dropping him just makes Eddie look like an idiot for picking him for the last 3 years.

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 12:37
Quote:
Optimist
Squad of 28 retained. Presumably Joe C is there as cover for Ashton injury.
Which 5 will drop out of match-day squad?

Ted Hill and Stooke
one of Teo/Tuilagi
one of Joe C/Ashton
one of Francis/Nowell/Slade - probably Francis

Is Care injured - along with the dismissal of Brown - dropping him just makes Eddie look like an idiot for picking him for the last 3 years.

Well, I think he has been idiotic during that time.

The problem is that 15 and 9's haven't made their case..
although he hadn't given many a chance either.

He is on record as saying he is trying to find a match winner....wth has he been looking...?

Yep, I'll go with IDIOT..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/11/2018 12:38 by John Tee.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 12:37
Slade, Lozowski and now Francis are tried as playmakers at 12 or 13, but Cipriani and Farrell were given one go, and it was the best performance by England all year. If he is not going for size at 12, then surely worth another go? You'd have to think that Cipriani would have had some idea how to break down the Japanese defence in that first half. Francis struggles at club level.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 13:10
Eddie will know his best team at any given time and is clearly giving chances to those who he thinks deserve them.

We just need to relax and let him get on with it.

Whether Cips is the best 10 isn't the question determining his lack of selection of course. Perhaps that is the better subject for debate rather than getting concerned over the latest squad rotations?

 
Yorkie2
Yorkie2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 13:31
Got to feel for Zach
Great debut against South Africa, then totally ignored for the next match. Reinstated against Japan as starter, what pressure did that put on him, then taken off after ten minutes as the makeweight for George/Hartley. Japan scored two tries whilst he was off the field, back for twenty minutes, half time then ten minutes then off.
Now dropped and replaced by a "plastic pom"
Sorry beginning to lose interest in this Southern Hemisphere coached side with their strange selection policy.
At least give the guys a proper chance.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 14:23
In two minds about that - when you are on the field (as he was for a short time against SA) you have to take your chances (as he did against SA). For the time he was on the pitch against Japan I don't think that he did anything that would have made Eddie think that he was invaluable. I am a big Zach fan as it happens but that wasn't one of his best days on the pitch. As for replacing with Shields, well I'm not that bothered as those are the rules, but I don't think that he has earned his place whilst he has been over here.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/11/2018 15:42 by BathMatt53.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 14:26
I think he meant Hughes.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 14:32
Another thought is that Zach could well have been pacing himself for 80 mins against a team that was pacing itself for 60 mins but he got the crook and wasn't able to show what he can do when Japan got tired.

It is important how Eddie drops his players, says the right things to explain the policy or Zach could be very frustrated. I guess he has a great career ahead of him whereas Eddie could be gone in a years time.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 14:53
Duplicate post



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/11/2018 15:41 by BathMatt53.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 15:00
'It is important how Eddie drops his players'

Good one!

Obviously we aren't party to what Eddie says privately - and he may well say all the right things to players. His public pronouncements - think Cipriani, Roko, Ashton - are a p88spoor joke.

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 16:26
I agree, I hope he'd have better man management skills, but if Wade is anything to go by... Who said he hadn't talked to Jones in 3 years, seems crazy to me.
If your guy Roko has been treated the same way...I'd imagine there'd be a good few players...and DoR's for that matter, who have to manage player disappointment and frustration a lot better, who can't wait to see the back of him.
As a fan, I can't wait either.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 17:00
I spoke with someone who had been given feedback by Eddie and he described it as 'brutal'. I can believe all of the similar stories in the press after that chat!



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 19:35
Quote:
BathMatt53
I spoke with someone who had been given feedback by Eddie and he described it as 'brutal'. I can believe all of the similar stories in the press after that chat!

I wonder if anyone is able to give Jones feedback? Feels a lot like its time he heard some home truths.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 19:38
The thing I like most about JoeC, both for us and for England, is that he is willing to pass inside to a supporting player and that he makes the pass after committing his defender but before taking the contact leaving him able to stay in the game. Not many wingers do this and I've always wondered why.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
19 November, 2018 22:14
I like what I've seen this season...if he improves, and no reason why he shouldn't, he'll be great.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
20 November, 2018 13:52
Ashton ruled out. Guess that means Joe C will remain with the squad and rule him out of playing for us on Friday. B@lls. (unless of course he's in the match-day squad, in which case, fantastic (through gritted teeth) news!

 
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
20 November, 2018 15:22
[www.bbc.co.uk] Ashton out, Aus have Montezuma's Revenge!

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
20 November, 2018 18:30
Any coincidence?

England NZ 2012 New Zealand go down with stomach bug..England beat the All Blacks

England Australia Ozzy team go down with stomach bug.........

Part of Eddies's cunning plan?



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
20 November, 2018 19:08
Getting their excuses in first.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
20 November, 2018 20:25
Always thought the most important selection Eddie had to make was the opposition's head chef.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
21 November, 2018 16:20
I don't think we would need to poison this Australia team to be honest with you! They are not quite as good as the All Blacks in 2012 in any way shape or form!

I think Cheika is anxious his job is on the line and so this seems a bit convenient for me!



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 05:21
Nowell crocked, JC in to start! Good luck Joe.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 11:10
From the announced team, hopefully Stooke will be released for us or will he be holding tackle bags and have a weekend soaking up the Atmos? We certainly could do with him in view of the delicate Charteris's soft knees.



Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa Rokoduguni

The Rock that is Semesa and how he will be rocking this season.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 11:14
15. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 24 caps), 14. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 1 cap), 13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 16 caps), 12. Ben Teío (Worcester Warriors, 15 caps), 11. Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 39 caps), 10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 64 caps) co-captain, 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 79 caps), 1. Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps), 2. Jamie George (Saracens, 31 caps), 3. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 16 caps), 4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 25 caps), 5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 67 caps), 6. Brad Shields (Wasps, 4 caps), 7. Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 8 caps), 8. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 7 caps).

Finishers: 16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 96 caps) co-captain, 17. Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps), 18. Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps), 19. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 9 caps), 20. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 17 caps), 21. Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 32 caps), 22. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps), 23. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 26 caps).

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 11:27
In a perfect world, the backs should be quite promising. You have experienced half backs, you have a boshing 12, a ball-playing 13 and gas to burn in the back 3. However, Farrell and May aside, there are question marks against the rest of them. We need to get the 12,13,15 link up working. Tuilagi, JJ and Goode for me. Te'o and Slade have it all to prove again.

Back 3 cover from the bench also looks a bit weak.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 11:51
Bench backs could mean a single early injury or an HIA leading to a major reshuffle. That doesn't seem sensible to me.

If any of the back 3 come off early (and assuming that he can't risk putting Tuilagi on until at least 50 minutes).

May or Coka off. Daly to wing. Slade to full back. Ford to fly-half. Farrell to centre. Teo moves across one.

Or you put Tuilagi on the wing, where he could be badly exposed.

Daly off. Slade to full back. Either Ford to 10, Faz to 12. Or Teo and Tuilagi in the centres.

Or you send Ford on at full-back.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 11:56
I hadn't even noticed that Hartley was on the bench. I wonder if he's thinking that he needs Hartley on the pitch at the end, for when the decision-making gets very heated and Faz is as likely as anyone to be in the bin, than he does at the beginning.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 12:44
Daly is going to get a run at 15 for the whole 6N to see if he can cement it. If not, Brown will be back for the RWC. Nothing to learn about Brown now.

Tuilagi has played wing for England before. Not, exactly, well.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 13:33
Who said anything about Brown? Are you saying he would have been the only obvious option to balance up the bench? I guess that's true with Nowell and Ashton ruled out.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 15:46
I really don't see Tuilagi as a viable world cup option, but I guess he's OK on the bench

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 16:00
Eddie might just as well chuck him in now and see if he survives. He's had 3 weeks in camp, and Eddie hasn't managed to break him yet - which is some sort of miracle of its own.

 
HMilner
Big Dog (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 16:10
Quote:
Optimist
Eddie might just as well chuck him in now and see if he survives. He's had 3 weeks in camp, and Eddie hasn't managed to break him yet - which is some sort of miracle of its own.

Isn't that because he turned up to the camp already broken somewhat? (Sm100)

I like Tuilagi and hope his injury days are behind him. I see Leicester are lining up Huw Jones for next season though which makes me think he is not planning on sticking around at Welford road along with Toomua who is back off to Oz.

If I were him I'd certainly go over the channel, make a load of money in a less exhausting atmosphere given how amateurishly some of the french clubs train etc and not worry about England given the injuries he has incurred. Would be better off just enjoying playing rugby again if I were him!



Adopted players:
2018-19 Jonathan Joseph
2017-18 Shaun Knight

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 16:11
Quote:
Optimist
Eddie might just as well chuck him in now and see if he survives. He's had 3 weeks in camp, and Eddie hasn't managed to break him yet - which is some sort of miracle of its own.

I thought that he spent most of the 3 weeks broken?



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
22 November, 2018 16:14
"how amateurishly some of the french clubs train"

Isn't this a bit of a myth? It's not like they all turn up to training stubbing out their 15th Gauloise of the day and wreaking of red wine.

I'm sure it's true that they have a different attitude and approach, but if it were 'amateurish' the French clubs wouldn't be remotely competitive in the CRC.

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: England side up
23 November, 2018 08:32
Isn't this a bit of a myth? It's not like they all turn up to training stubbing out their 15th Gauloise of the day and wreaking of red wine.

Really? Are you sure Opti?

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?