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sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

THE PLAN
02 December, 2018 20:45
Appears to be, give it to a prop in the middle of the pitch and then watch everything disintegrate at glacial speed.
We have great players.
We do not have great coaches or it seems a plan.

HOP

 
MESSAGES->author
Coalminer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 09:05
My view is that both sides had a clear plan yesterday and they both had the same plan - slow it down, kick it and try to force errors.

I wont speak for Sale fans but from my perspective as s Bath supporter the plan failed on two levels. Firstly we didn't win and secondl, watching the match was a dire experience.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 09:13
Also if you adopt that type of plan then you need to execute it well and frankly our kicking, both from hand and at goal was not good.

I re-watched the game last night, yes I know I am mad, and it struck me in the first half we did phase after phase on their line and sadly never looked like scoring. In the second half Sale had a line out and four phases later had scored.

Surely, surely that is something we can train and practice to do?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 09:15
I honestly don't understand why elimination of errors constitutes a way to win a game of rugby. Nobody sets out to make mistakes in any circumstances, so that should be a given. But if the entire pre-match spiel is 'don't make any mistakes' it's almost bound to create a negative mindset, leading to loss of confidence when a mistake does occur - and it's rugby, so they do occur - on days wet and dry. Why not just accept that and focus on trusting each other's skills to prevail over the course of 80 minutes?

What was that match that Bath won by about 60 points in an absolute swimming pool about 15 years ago - against Llanelli at the Rec??

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 09:18
It’s like the ‘anti barbarians’ approach...



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 09:21
Quote:
BathMatt53
It’s like the ‘anti barbarians’ approach...

To some degree, however the way that they look as if they have never met each other is pretty barbarian-esque

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 09:42
(Sm147)(Sm105)(Sm56)

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 11:03
From Glos match report, "in a back division orchestrated by Danny Cipriani Thorley received the ball 15 times"

What wouldn't Joe and Roko give for this!

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 13:25
Quote:
Optimist
From Glos match report, "in a back division orchestrated by Danny Cipriani Thorley received the ball 15 times"
What wouldn't Joe and Roko give for this!

My take on this is we are playing too flat and passing to the next guy in line so getting stopped way before it gets to the wings or they get the ball with zero space to work with.

We threw 1 miss pass on Sunday and guess what we scored. It would be good if we had the space playing as flat as we are but with modern defences and line speed it ain’t gonna happen. We need to give ourselves a fraction more space and if that means coming faster from deeper or finding a second playmaker then go for it. We might even drop less passes.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 15:41
Yes Kesmo but the pattern is so crushingly identical every game it is clear to me that they are being told and trained to play exactly as they are. As others have said the only time we scored was when a couple of good players decided to go off script and played what was in front of them. We have a squad of gifted players that is producing results that is distinctly less than the sum of it’s parts. The coaches have to be responsible.

SQUAWK

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 15:49
Seeing Blackadder after the match on TV he said the players did not play in the first half how it had been agreed they would play.

He looked very tired and fed-up........as if he would rather be somewhere else.

 
Tomato Soup
Tomato Soup (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 15:52
My solution is to watch our games using the fast forward button and play them at x6 speed.

You find its not quite so bad then and you can also fit something else into your afternoon.

Yesterday the Christmas tree went up. Couldn't be done unless x6 on playback.

There you go - Nice positive half full post.

Thanks to all the players at Bath for "helping me out".

 
Tomato Soup
Tomato Soup (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 16:00
Personally I think that The Plan is to let TB carry on until after the world cup and then try to get a decent coach in.

I would like to see us approach Steve Borthwick and make him an offer he can't refuse.

He has experience of the Sarries methods and working with Eddie and England.

Don't know how we would get him but he has more heart in it that Todd will ever have.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 20:52
Quote:
sid the seagull
the only time we scored was when a couple of good players decided to go off script and played what was in front of them.
That try was all Vuna. Yes, Wilson chucked a decent mispass from very, very flat to the defence - but that was not a try made by Wilson. It was manufactured out of absolutely nothing by Vuna.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 21:08
I see Farleigh was open on Sunday to a coaching session with 13 to 16 year olds, wonder if the players learnt anything

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 21:53
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
sid the seagull
the only time we scored was when a couple of good players decided to go off script and played what was in front of them.
That try was all Vuna. Yes, Wilson chucked a decent mispass from very, very flat to the defence - but that was not a try made by Wilson. It was manufactured out of absolutely nothing by Vuna.

Agreed, and if a Sale defender had been watching the playlist and not just his man, the flat pass could have easily been intercepted. Class from Vuna.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
03 December, 2018 21:54
They wouldn't have been there - having a (well deserve?)d day off after their exertions.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 06:23
Skills were Saturday, match Sunday



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 07:26
Quote:
hasta
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
sid the seagull
the only time we scored was when a couple of good players decided to go off script and played what was in front of them.
That try was all Vuna. Yes, Wilson chucked a decent mispass from very, very flat to the defence - but that was not a try made by Wilson. It was manufactured out of absolutely nothing by Vuna.

Agreed, and if a Sale defender had been watching the playlist and not just his man, the flat pass could have easily been intercepted. Class from Vuna.

The fact that the game is seeing so many interceptions from flat ball confirms in my mind the fact that we are just passing to order rather than seeing and playing whats in front of us.
I'm not talking about this instance as it is clearly the exception. Quins exposed Exeters rush defence at the weekend, rugby guile from Gustard perhaps?



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 07:35
OK a further thought.
When Girvan Dempsey arrived it was stated Pre season I think that we intended to alter things to attack much more off quick phase 1 ball.
I see zero evidence of this, why?

FLAP

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 07:54
Perhaps because it needs quick ball to work, I watched Harry Randall throw some super quick passes for Bristol as well as providing a threat from 9 in his own right. Bristol have a real gem there.

I really think we need a young class 9 to get our backs going rather that 9's at the end of their career, Khan has lost his bite remember when Stringer was running things, sadly another twilight 9. We need his class but younger.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 08:10
What happened to Max Green, shipwrecked? He looked very bright when he was thrown in at the start of the season. Has he been packed off back to scrum-half school where he can learn to spend 30 seconds choreographing his box-kicks. Perhaps bar-takings were down after punters found there wasn't time to go and fetch a pint in between the ruck forming and the ball descending in to no-man's land?

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 08:22
Bath have not really had a decent young scrum half since Cooper. Even he was not out of the top drawer. We've had some good front row players, great 2nd rows and back rows, international class centres, wings and full backs, Catty and Ford at 10, but no killer 9s. It has always been a key position and the world rankings would seem to back this up.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 08:24
I think I understand the Sale game now …. lull Leinster into a combination of sleep and a false sense of security. It's cunning.

"We will watch Bath's game against Sale very closely" said Leo Cullen. "We'll keep a keen eye on them and see how they're playing."

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 08:28
Yes, Opti I thought about him when posting, I agree he is a keeper but not quite the finished article, Randall has showed steady progress since I saw him play at Cardiff Arms Park about 2 years ago, (can't remember why but it was against Bath) and I think Max Green needs that same opportunity. Just think we need a finished 9 to lead the backs.

PS Randall is England qualified.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 08:37
Quote:
Optimist
I think I understand the Sale game now …. lull Leinster into a combination of sleep and a false sense of security. It's cunning.
"We will watch Bath's game against Sale very closely" said Leo Cullen. "We'll keep a keen eye on them and see how they're playing."

A bit like the way a stoat mesmerises rabbits, yes I get that now. Incidentally is it illegal to kidnap visiting ex England coaches?



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 08:45
Not young, but Claassens was, well, class.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 09:13
Thats the point Hasta, Claassens, Stringer, Kahn all twilight 9's. Good mind but difficult to build a team round.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 09:13
Claassens when on form was real class and sides knew that when he played well, Bath played well. That is why he was often a target for their enforcers, trying to slow his service down.

I agree we need to develop our own scrum halves and I thought young Green showed distinct promise. We should give Green a run out this weekend as he might learn something from McGrath the Leinster 9, as well as providing quicker ball than Kahn. Also Green us quick and can make a break.

I saw Randall play for England Under 20s a season or so ago against the French and, although being the smallest on the pitch, he was one of the best players always up with the action and extremely brave in tackling much bigger opponents. His service was quick and his kicking was solid. At the time, he was stated as being in the Gloucester Academy and IMO, Bristol have a real gem for Pat Lam to help polish.



Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa Rokoduguni

The Rock that is Semesa and how he will be rocking this season.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 09:20
Claassens was 25 when he joined us. We built a team around him and Butch. I fundamentally disagree that was a twilight signing.

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 09:34
Fully agree Hasta. Claassens was class on his day and unlike our present bunch, could really excite the crowd with his intuitive, intelligent play.



Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa Rokoduguni

The Rock that is Semesa and how he will be rocking this season.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 09:40
OK, I'm wrong on that one BUT you can't disagree that we need to build a team around a younger class 9 though. You can't deny we have a propensity for twilight 9's though even Chudley is 30.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 09:40
I'd completely forgotten about him

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 09:47
I just assumed we were going to build around our young, class 9.

Darren Allinson

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 10:04
DA wouldn't get in an Old Prostates team and he was valued by so many other clubs, we couldn't persuade anyone to take him on loan last season! Classic good buy there.



Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa Rokoduguni

The Rock that is Semesa and how he will be rocking this season.

 
JohnMB
JohnMB (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 10:26
There is a lot of quality in the Bath team. While the match the last weekend was not the greatest spectacle the weather conditions were terrible for the encounter with Sale. Leinster supporters such as myself will not be assuming anything about our double header games especially given the injury crisis that we're trying to finesse our way around. Currently, Jack McGrath, SOB, Dan Leavy, Robbie Henshawe, Jordan Larmour, Fergus McFadden, Rory O'Loughlin, Joe Tomane, Nick McCarthy and Jack Conan are all injured. As we can only have two antipodeans in our HCC squad Gibson Park will be dropped in favour of Luke McGrath at No 9 to ensure the participation of Scott Fardy and James Lowe. However, with the injury to Nick McCarthy that will mean an exceptionally callow backup to Luke McGrath will be required. If the Leinster medical updates are to be believed (and they don't have a great record of truthfulness) Larmour, O'Loughlin and Conan of the above list may possibly recover in time for the match on 8 December.

 
MESSAGES->author
Rawce (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 11:35
The weather wasn't that terrible tbh. Drizzly for the most part and one downpour at the end, but didn't really contribute that much. Even the scrums seemed to hold up. To my eyes, we managed fewer knock ons than in recent drier games. I think it was more a low quality spectacle because it was two low confidence teams fighting it out in amongst a swathe of under performing squads.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 11:52
An interesting read here:

[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

PG

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 11:57
Quote:
Bathovalballer
DA wouldn't get in an Old Prostates team and he was valued by so many other clubs, we couldn't persuade anyone to take him on loan last season! Classic good buy there.

Glad I read the posts above BoB - I thought for a moment you meant your favourite lock forward!

Shock horror!


PG

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 12:00
Quote:
JohnMB
There is a lot of quality in the Bath team. While the match the last weekend was not the greatest spectacle the weather conditions were terrible for the encounter with Sale. Leinster supporters such as myself will not be assuming anything about our double header games especially given the injury crisis that we're trying to finesse our way around. Currently, Jack McGrath, SOB, Dan Leavy, Robbie Henshawe, Jordan Larmour, Fergus McFadden, Rory O'Loughlin, Joe Tomane, Nick McCarthy and Jack Conan are all injured. As we can only have two antipodeans in our HCC squad Gibson Park will be dropped in favour of Luke McGrath at No 9 to ensure the participation of Scott Fardy and James Lowe. However, with the injury to Nick McCarthy that will mean an exceptionally callow backup to Luke McGrath will be required. If the Leinster medical updates are to be believed (and they don't have a great record of truthfulness) Larmour, O'Loughlin and Conan of the above list may possibly recover in time for the match on 8 December.

Every Premiership team has an injury crisis, it's not exclusive to Leinster. We're missing a ton of players too. Regardless, you've zero to worry about.

 
Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 12:01
Green is not the answer, and will not be the answer for some considerable time..

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 12:01
Another excellent read/fan POV from Somerset Live. Sums the situation up perfectly

Bath Rugby Fan's View: After eight years' of promises it's time for something better

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 12:23
It is a perfectly reasonable summary. Though people continuing to confuse ‘exacerbate’ and ‘exasperate’ is exasperating, and exacerbated by the frustration of watching Bath rugby.

 
AndyMGlos
Lebowski (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 13:26
I watched Randall many times playing for Glos academy and was gutted when he went to Bristol. He is a real talent and like s*#t off a shovel in open space. My understanding is Bristol offered a lot of money for an academy player, plus Glos have Velacott and you can’t keep everybody!

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 13:28
Totally agree with that summary - my only divergence is that the soft underbelly potential to revert to submissive rubbish was evident in the final 10 minutes of the Quins match when we were desperately hanging on instead of running away with a 50+ score

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 13:37
It is the ambition and the club statements that I don't get. This 50% of homegrown players thing is just the next in a long line of things we have no hope of achieving.

 
Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 13:41
Quote:
ballsout
Another excellent read/fan POV from Somerset Live. Sums the situation up perfectly
Bath Rugby Fan's View: After eight years' of promises it's time for something better

Spot on ! (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 13:42
Quote:
gaz59
Totally agree with that summary - my only divergence is that the soft underbelly potential to revert to submissive rubbish was evident in the final 10 minutes of the Quins match when we were desperately hanging on instead of running away with a 50+ score

The one that strikes me as even worse was against Tigers last year in round 1. Well clear then let in two (or was it three?) tries in the last 10 minutes. Last play of the game, them with a 2 man advantage and a lineout 5 metres from our line, thankfully they messed it up and the final whistle blew. It almost felt like a loss.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 13:55
Going back to your original comment Sid about giving the ball to a prop.

We were constantly aware on Sunday of Henry Thomas' inability to move let alone run.
Has he been coached to simply stand and receive the ball, drop his head, and then drop to the ground to form a ruck? Is he in the team solely to hold up the scrum?
When he came off he looked absolutely shot - is he unfit?

Just cannot see how that kind of performance added anything to inspiring a go forward momentum to the play and formed an easy target for turnovers.
Someone will now tell me what a great game he had!

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 14:50
Yes HT looked ineffective but really he shouldn’t be getting the ball there with such mind crushing regularity. Contrast that with say the way the Worcester backs managed to attack us with such paucity of possession.
Have to agree also with the Bath Fan’s View on err the strategic present and future.

PECK

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 15:06
Austin Healey commented that our forwards tip the ball on one, but then the carrier goes into the contact without anyone else latching on, so never really make any ground in heavy traffic - a recipe for going sideways.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 15:33
Quote:
johnnyf
Going back to your original comment Sid about giving the ball to a prop.
We were constantly aware on Sunday of Henry Thomas' inability to move let alone run.
Has he been coached to simply stand and receive the ball, drop his head, and then drop to the ground to form a ruck? Is he in the team solely to hold up the scrum?
When he came off he looked absolutely shot - is he unfit?

Just cannot see how that kind of performance added anything to inspiring a go forward momentum to the play and formed an easy target for turnovers.
Someone will now tell me what a great game he had!

Firstly, the scrum was on top which points to his job half done already, but to your point he was constantly offering himself to carry, regardless how innefective it was. He put in a big shift. There were loads of scrums in that game and he made sixteen carries, he's welcome to blow a bit afterwards.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 15:43
The point is ballsout, is just receiving the ball in a static position and falling to the ground considered as a carry?
I am no expert at all in forward play but surely some enthusiasm to make ground has to be part of any game plan.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 16:21
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
johnnyf
Going back to your original comment Sid about giving the ball to a prop.
We were constantly aware on Sunday of Henry Thomas' inability to move let alone run.
Has he been coached to simply stand and receive the ball, drop his head, and then drop to the ground to form a ruck? Is he in the team solely to hold up the scrum?
When he came off he looked absolutely shot - is he unfit?

Just cannot see how that kind of performance added anything to inspiring a go forward momentum to the play and formed an easy target for turnovers.
Someone will now tell me what a great game he had!

Firstly, the scrum was on top which points to his job half done already, but to your point he was constantly offering himself to carry, regardless how innefective it was. He put in a big shift. There were loads of scrums in that game and he made sixteen carries, he's welcome to blow a bit afterwards.

16 carries, yes but for a whopping total of 8 metres - tells the story

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 16:50
I am myself exasperated by the whole thing of players who look like they are playing by numbers.

I remember in the era of Gary Gold we could see from the happy vantage of the stand that a break was on but because they were in their 22 they kicked for position.....time after time........which we concluded was the plan they had been told to play to.

I wish the players......obviously recognising it was not going well, take matters into their own hands and change to Plan B, and then C and then D.

Surely the captain can recognise its not going well. And if he could not recognise it perhaps if he had listened to the crowd telling Kahn to get the hurry up......or say to Henry Thomas, as one of the regular receivers come from deeper, faster and tell a couple of other players to latch on, recycle the ball very quickly and move again.....in the end a gap will appear and we can flood through and then feed the flyers.

Unless you are six points up with three minutes to go you do not play the way we did on Sunday for the first 60 minutes. Chudleigh seemed to have the right idea when he came on......perhaps he was the only one who had been listening at all of the training sessions in the previous week!!!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 17:01
True BJF (re. Chudley), but in previous weeks as starter he played in a similar vein to Kahn, which leads to the inevitable conclusion that, much like Mourinho's United, they are only allowed to attack from a position of desperation.

One of these days, a scrum-half is going to spot the acres of space behind the breakdown and well in front of the back 3 who have walked in their sleep to the formulaically preordained place where the box-kick will drop. A little dink over the top, a couple of runners on the front-foot - and a bit of mayhem.

I am so sick of box-kicking that i'd actually prefer it if the 9 was fair-game, and 'blockers' were deemed to be offside/obstructing. And/or, as Dan was suggesting somewhere, the 5-second law was very rigidly applied.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
04 December, 2018 17:10
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I wish the players......obviously recognising it was not going well, take matters into their own hands and change to Plan B, and then C and then D.

I agree BSJ if not in every game I do think one of the senior players at one point might have said, "flaming Grewcocks, get it to Jerry and let's win this for the forum". Perhaps they are too scared.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Chance to shine in 18/19 with AW's injury!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
05 December, 2018 21:53
The plan:

[www.somersetlive.co.uk]



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
05 December, 2018 23:30
Quote:
BathMatt53
The plan:
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

Director of rugby Todd Blackadder said: "We had a REALLY good discussion today around alignment, getting everyone on the same page and making sure that we're REALLY clear in our systems.

"When we were watching the game yesterday it was REALLY evident that we're not. We've got people in two minds and it was REALLY to get down to the guts of what the hell is going on.

“When I talk about alignment and clarity, I mean getting everyone on the same page because we missed so many attacking opportunities against Sale.

It must have been a REALLY, REALLY, REALLY useful discussion which will make no difference whatsoever when we get thumped by Leinster ...............REALLY?

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
05 December, 2018 23:54
I think I now understand why we are getting absolutely nowhere. You just have to read Todd’s quote (above) It really does look like rugby by numbers. Constant talk about alignment & being on the same page sounds more like the Irish backstop than how to win rugby matches. Does Dempsey really buy into all this??? Maybe the players don’t understand the process or believe in it or are constantly worried about being “aligned” rather than reacting to what is going on in front of them. Perhaps I am talking piffle but this might explain what is going wrong.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2018 06:50 by Bath Hammer.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 08:13
Is there a quick fix for such problems?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 08:25
I think that it could be read two ways. Maybe the 'alignment' is talking about principles rather than solid structures - such as possible ideas when you are in the red zone. Or making sure that everyone works together, an example being that Henry Thomas runs were never going to work when he got the ball static because of the delays at the ruck and went by himself so got turned over. If the team was 'aligned' then he would have been onto a quick ball at pace with someone right behind him to ruck Curry off the ball.

I still think that a lot of it is about being under pressure mentally (to score / win) and then forgetting what they are supposed to be doing - as such it remains largely under the remit of Kate Warriner as far as I am concerned.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 09:03
The last two league games have been absolute horror shows by a Bath team who have been together for half a season now. Our performances are getting worse and still the coaches talk about not playing to agreed plans, not sticking to the set game plan etc. Why not?

If I hear another quote like 'we will learn from that experience' I will explode! It is quite obvious that nothing has been learnt or corrected and same mistakes/errors continue to abound. Are the players just slow on the uptake or cannot be bothered to listen? That is where we need more rigour and discipline at the top and strong, clear leadership on the field. Both aspects are obviously not happening so I M V change is needed as continued underperformance increases the unacceptable likelihood of relegation.

Neither Mr Dempsey or Ms Warriner appear to have had much influence as we are still making the same basic errors and lacking the same basic execution skills we have for more seasons than I care to remember. With our training resources and the international players we have, it is unacceptable and needs addressing. As someone once said, Bath have all the gear but no idea! If they did we should expect to see some/any improvement by now!



Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa Rokoduguni

The Rock that is Semesa and how he will be rocking this season.

 
bcd1981
bcd1981 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 09:10
Quote:
Bathovalballer
If I hear another quote like 'we will learn from that experience' I will explode!

Fingers crossed.

 
redmix
redmix (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 09:13
Just a thought on the ponderously slow ball from the ruck...

Is it possible the 9 is expecting something to happen behind them as a cue to move the ball, but it isn't happening and this is the "in two minds" comment from TB?

Every team have a basic setup (or set ups) from which they then have options on where to move the ball. If Bath's basic set up is not happening, then the 9 suddenly doesn't have the options he is expecting. Result is he looks stupid because he isn't moving the ball but it is actually the rest of the team letting him down.
The likely options remaining to 9 is to box kick (but the rest of the team aren't expecting it so there's no chase), pass to 10, who has the only options of kicking (but the rest of the team aren't expecting it so there's no chase) or shipping slow ball. If it's the forwards who aren't setting up correctly then a ball to them would likely hit someone not expecting it, who is static and has no option but to take contact. Remind you of anything?

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 10:04
Re the alleged ineffectiveness of A. Warrener and B. Dempsey.
A. You can say cheer up to your ‘patient’ all you like but it’s not going to work if he’s being told continuously by others to do things that are made impossible by what’s around him.
B. You can have all the ideas you like, but it’s not going to work if those around just say ‘nah mate we’ve always done it that way and look how brilliant it is’

FLAP

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 10:09
In both the Newcastle and Sale games we had more than enough visits to the red zone to win both games twice over - which implies that many of the component parts of our game are in perfectly fine working order. The entire rest of the performance would escape all this scrutiny if we'd just taken 2 opportunities in each of those games. And for me, it's perfectly simple, the forwards have taken over the game and they have butchered innumerable opportunities. Our half-backs simply have to exert some authority over this.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 10:22
Quote:
BathMatt53
I still think that a lot of it is about being under pressure mentally (to score / win) and then forgetting what they are supposed to be doing - as such it remains largely under the remit of Kate Warriner as far as I am concerned.

I find it really hard to believe that the squad is so weak minded that the pressure to avoid relegation is stopping them from playing. Anyone who has used a sports psychologist knows they are essential to give players that extra bit required to succeed, but Kate Warriner has an almost impossible task if we are saying our squad are unable to play because they are frightened of losing.

Personally I just think the problems are with the lack of a clear plan from the coaches that the players actually believe in.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 10:29
I don't think that explains a basic lack of skills when in the red zone OB or when the pressure is on (missing touch etc).



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 10:50
Quote:
redmix
Just a thought on the ponderously slow ball from the ruck...
Is it possible the 9 is expecting something to happen behind them as a cue to move the ball, but it isn't happening and this is the "in two minds" comment from TB?

Every team have a basic setup (or set ups) from which they then have options on where to move the ball. If Bath's basic set up is not happening, then the 9 suddenly doesn't have the options he is expecting. Result is he looks stupid because he isn't moving the ball but it is actually the rest of the team letting him down.
The likely options remaining to 9 is to box kick (but the rest of the team aren't expecting it so there's no chase), pass to 10, who has the only options of kicking (but the rest of the team aren't expecting it so there's no chase) or shipping slow ball. If it's the forwards who aren't setting up correctly then a ball to them would likely hit someone not expecting it, who is static and has no option but to take contact. Remind you of anything?p


That makes a lot of sense Redmix but I do find TB’s way of expressing himself confusing & quite unintelligible so maybe that is part of the problem.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 10:55
Quote:
BathMatt53
I don't think that explains a basic lack of skills when in the red zone OB or when the pressure is on (missing touch etc).

True, the coaches can't be blamed for missing touch which does seem to be a problem for all our FH's.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Wynners
Wynners (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 11:19
Quote:
Optimist
And for me, it's perfectly simple, the forwards have taken over the game and they have butchered innumerable opportunities. Our half-backs simply have to exert some authority over this.

Couldn’t agree more with this. Asked by a mate what the problem at Bath was the other day I said lack of decision makers between 9-13 meaning our forwards both drag and get dragged in to the wrong sort of game. The biggest issue for me is 10 where I’ve lost all confidence in Burns and Priestland.

 
samlee99
samlee99 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 13:06
I thought the plan might be to support your team.

Clearly I was wrong.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 14:51
Quote:
samlee99
I thought the plan might be to support your team.
Clearly I was wrong.

Why???

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
06 December, 2018 23:26
Quote:
samlee99
I thought the plan might be to support your team.
Clearly I was wrong.

Gooooooooooo team!

There, is that better?

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
07 December, 2018 08:17
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
samlee99
I thought the plan might be to support your team.
Clearly I was wrong.

Gooooooooooo team!

There, is that better?

Best thing you’ve said in weeks.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
07 December, 2018 08:26
A part of being a supporter is to express your concerns when things are going badly.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
08 December, 2018 11:22
Three hours to ko with Leinster.
Let’s what The Plan looks like today?
Or whether Leinster can cope with it’s fiendish complexity.

SQUAWK

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
08 December, 2018 11:33
We're going to lock the Leinster team in the changing room. That plan could work.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
08 December, 2018 11:48
Best plan is to switch their flight to Ryanair!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
08 December, 2018 12:17
We are going to be allowed to play all 23 on the pitch from the start I heard. If they are winning by 5 clear tries we will mixed the teams up a bit.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
08 December, 2018 12:24
I think the officials are also going to have gain approval from the home fans before any penalty is given against Bath.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: THE PLAN
08 December, 2018 18:55
Hmmm well fair play that was good.
To get that close to a team that beat the All Blacks no further criticism for the mo.
But what happened?
Other than JW now first choice.

HOP


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