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ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 10:31
A season and a half of throwing games away...

I'm not going to list all of them because that would take all day, but some notable ones stick out...

16/17, Challenge cup Semi v Stade: 7 points ahead with a few minutes to go. Likelihood of some silverware finally, if we can just close out the game. A string of penalties conceded, try conceded, then again Stade march up the field and get a drop goal to win the match. Thrown away.

17/18, Round 1, Tigers away: race into a big lead, score three tries (not four obv), then concede two tries in the last 15 minutes, three yellow cards (sound familiar?), finish the game with 13 men and only win the match because Leicester mess up a lineout 5 metres from our line in the last play. This one was pretty much a carbon copy of yesterday.

17/18, Newcastle at home. 32-19 with 15 minutes to go at the Rec, Newcastle score twice late and snatch the win.

17/18 Toulon away. Leading by 6 points, concede 10 in the last ten minutes and a string of errors (not making touch with penalty kicks, twice) show off the traditional panic that sets in when a game needs closing out.

18/19 Bristol away. Leading with 12 minutes to go, then concede 10 points.

18/19 Gloucester at home. Winning with 1 minute to go. Restart. Gloucester go all the way up the field and Banahan scores.

18/19 Harlequins away. Big lead, then concede two tries in the 75th and 79th minute then have to defend over 20 phases after the clock goes red. Just about hang on for the win.

18/19 Northampton at home. Winning by 7 in the final minute. Saints go up the field and score in the final play. Biggar hits the post with his conversion that would have drawn the game.

18/19 Toulouse at home. Enough's been said about this. The win thrown away.

18/19 Wasps away. Miles ahead. Our players speak to the coaches at half time, then concede three tries in ten minutes. Late try by Ewels giving us the lead, before Wasps equalise at the death and salvage a draw.

18/19 Worcester away. Leading by 16 points at HT. Totally stop playing. Panic and ill discipline in the last fifteen minutes. 4 much needed points thrown away.

Why does it keep happening?

And please, none of this mind coach stuff. None of the other clubs have one and they do just fine.

Edit:

18/19 Saints away Beating Saints by 6 points when the clock goes red. Concede a penalty right under the posts, turn our backs, Saints tap and go and run in unopposed to win the game.

18/19 Harlequins home Lineout on the half way line with time up, lose the ball thrn Quins made metres at will, all the way to our try line, where they then score with ease.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 19:01 by ballsout.

 
MESSAGES->author
FourSticks (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 11:33
A couple of quotes for you from some match reports:

"One ‘purple patch’ of ten minutes established an 11-point cushion and thereafter, Bath played with “an air of almost arrogant indifference.”

"Strangely inconsistent in their pattern of play, Bath piled on all the points in the first half, and played indifferently for the rest of the game."


the first was from Bath v Weston Super Mare on 11 April 1967; the second, from Bath v Liverpool 23 May 1967.

I think you'll find it's in the club's DNA...

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 11:56
We have now lost to the bottom 3 in the table. We have also had some good results. We are no nearer to being contenders. With such a tight table, that match was a must win to keep us in the race for top 4. It looks like another season being around the middle bottom of the table. 6th at best.

 
MESSAGES->author
FourSticks (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 12:09
I'm not sure why we always expect more. Over the 18 seasons from 2000/01, our mean average end of season placement is 5.83.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 12:15
Lost to Bristol, lost to Worcester, lost to Newcastle.

Totally unable to close out a game as the original post shows. With all the quality in our squad. And people still think the coaching isn't the problem. Let's see if we can beat Bristol at Twickenham, I wouldn't count on it.

"6th at best?" At this point I'll take 11th.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 13:43
"I'm not sure why we always expect more. Over the 18 seasons from 2000/01, our mean average end of season placement is 5.83."

So we can legitimately claim to be better than average.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 14:38
6th is the sort of side we have had in the pro era. Not the worst but nowhere near the best. The odd run in a cup but always found wanting in the end.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 14:50
And yet Saracens, Exeter, Harlequins, Wasps, Leicester, Northampton have all won the Premiership in the last decade, with Sale not far behind that. Gloucester have won a couple of trophies. That leaves us, Worcester and Newcastle. Why?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 14:59
I’m usually pretty sanguine about Bath results - if I had a cat it wouldn’t need to hide behind the sofa. But yesterday’s has annoyed me more than I can remember. Apart from anything I was looking forward to writing a nice smug post for bo and now it turns out he’s mostly right. Half time should have been the coaches’ moment to say, ‘right, let’s play’. God knows what they actually said - but it doesn’t really matter - either they told the team to stop playing, or they said something constructive and the team ignored them. Neither scenario is good.

 
badger1664
badger1664 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 16:15
I absolutely agree ballsout , this is a shocking statistic . And four sticks why shouldn’t we expect more? We have every right to . After all I’d like to think we’re not just a revenue source for this club . I for one am not satisfied with being consistently inconsistent and won’t settle for mid table mediocrity year in year out . Exeter are still fairly new to the premiership but look what they’ve achieved and maintained . Sariries are always up there so why not bath ? We’ve got money , strong players an owner with great resources and infinite patience so why not , why shouldn’t we expect more ??

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 16:30
It's particularly jarring when you realise that all of those games thrown away are only in the last season and a half.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 16:54
They weren’t all thrown away though - a couple of those examples are when they were ‘nearly’ thrown away like Saints and also Tigers. You have also missed out matches like Glos at the rec early this season where Bath came right back into it.

Are Bath a clinical side? Of course they aren’t. That’s why they are almost perpetually average in the standings. Are they as bad as you are making out (or more importantly are Bath the only team that can lose a lead?) of course not. That’s why they are almost perpetually average in the standings.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 17:05
There isn’t a great deal between most of the teams in the Premiership & any of them can beat any other on a given day. The player quality is much more evenly spread than 5 years ago. Much more depends on the depth of squads, the effectiveness of the coaching & avoidance of injuries. My view is that our squad is about average in terms of quality. Our 2nd & back rows are above average, our half-backs are slightly below average as are our centres & our front row & back three about average. Maybe with Watson, Joe & JJ back that will be upgraded but we are where we are. Bearing that in mind we have to get that extra effectiveness & consistency out of the squad to reach the top half but we have no special right to beat any team.

 
MESSAGES->author
FourSticks (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 17:25
Quote:
Badger1664
why shouldn't we expect more? We have every right to


We can hope, we can desire, but, given those statistics, we cannot expect to be be higher - we have not earned that right over the last 18 years.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 20:00
Quote:
Bath Hammer
There isn’t a great deal between most of the teams in the Premiership & any of them can beat any other on a given day. The player quality is much more evenly spread than 5 years ago. Much more depends on the depth of squads, the effectiveness of the coaching & avoidance of injuries. My view is that our squad is about average in terms of quality. Our 2nd & back rows are above average, our half-backs are slightly below average as are our centres & our front row & back three about average. Maybe with Watson, Joe & JJ back that will be upgraded but we are where we are. Bearing that in mind we have to get that extra effectiveness & consistency out of the squad to reach the top half but we have no special right to beat any team.

We might not have a right to beat any team and any team can beat any other, but do you think it's encouraging that we've lost to Bristol, Newcastle and Worcester, with two more games to come against them?

Quote:
FourSticks
Quote:
Badger1664
why shouldn't we expect more? We have every right to


We can hope, we can desire, but, given those statistics, we cannot expect to be be higher - we have not earned that right over the last 18 years.

No we can't expect. But we can challenge, and wonder WHY most other teams have won trophies in the last decade but we can't.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 20:12
Maybe it’s our turn next...or maybe not!



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
fat lock
fat lock (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 20:39
I think we've had more than our fair share of upheavals in the last decade or so which possibly other teams haven't.
These crises could equally be a result of other issues - but either way they are unsettling for a team desperately trying to create some consistency.

I do wonder if after one of them we might have been better at pressing the reset button - and having one almighty clear out and restarting with a clear sheet of paper.

Our turnover of coaches prevents any long term progression, - I suppose that's where investing so much in Hooper is hoping to give the stability we lack. I just hope they've chosen the right person.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 20:49
Quote:
fat lock
I do wonder if after one of them we might have been better at pressing the reset button - and having one almighty clear out and restarting with a clear sheet of paper.

Hopefully after this season. Blackadder and Hooper certainly aren't the answer. Ditch the players that aren't good enough, hire a decent head coach post-World Cup. Get Hatley back. Send Hooper to other clubs around the world for a few years. Get him to step outside the Bath Rugby bubble and come in back in 5 years time a better man manager.

I realise we've had a lot of upheaval but this time it's needed, at least once we can guarantee safety this season.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 21:12
It is still an incredibly tight table bar the top 2. Anything can still happen, it is about what happens from here in. There is inconsistency from top to bottom and there will be opportunities. I hope the team are hurting and make sure they don't make the same mistakes again, I accept putting in a full 80 (or 90+) is not always possible if you bust a gut to lead at half time but they must learn how to close a game out effectively.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 21:23
Quote:
Optimist
I’m usually pretty sanguine about Bath results - if I had a cat it wouldn’t need to hide behind the sofa. But yesterday’s has annoyed me more than I can remember. Apart from anything I was looking forward to writing a nice smug post for bo and now it turns out he’s mostly right. Half time should have been the coaches’ moment to say, ‘right, let’s play’. God knows what they actually said - but it doesn’t really matter - either they told the team to stop playing, or they said something constructive and the team ignored them. Neither scenario is good.

Most motivational half time pep talk ever - we are 35 - 0 down against a rampant Canterbury side full of bullocking monsters and athletic freaks. Skipper says" right lads, we might be stuffed in the scrums and breakdowns, getting cleared out at line outs and we know they have electric speed in the backs but just remember this lads, we are playing the better rugby so go back out there and keep at it"

I really can't bear to tell you the final score - perhaps Todd has been to the same coaching school as our 2nd team skipper that day

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 22:00
Quins and saints have also been relegated, so would you trade their current position and that relegation for that win? I could go either way, on balance I'd rather not be relegated.

Wasps won it 2008 and don't look any more like winning it again than us. They had a long purple patch as did we before them.

So you're really asking "why aren't we Saracens, Exeter or Leicester" and to be honest tiggers seem on the wane.

So basically there's about 2 teams that are really challengers, plus a few one season wonders, in any 5 year period and we've not been one of those 4 in the last 10 years (though we nearly had a one season wonder). That shouldn't be a massive surprise.

I would say that, along with Wasps, tiggers, sarries and potentially exe, we are one of 4 or 5 teams that have ever had a sustained run of success in what I'd call modern rugby.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 22:08
More navel gazing by some!

(Sm120)

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
06 January, 2019 22:41
Quote:
DanWiley
Quins and saints have also been relegated, so would you trade their current position and that relegation for that win? I could go either way, on balance I'd rather not be relegated.
Wasps won it 2008 and don't look any more like winning it again than us. They had a long purple patch as did we before them.

So you're really asking "why aren't we Saracens, Exeter or Leicester" and to be honest tiggers seem on the wane.

So basically there's about 2 teams that are really challengers, plus a few one season wonders, in any 5 year period and we've not been one of those 4 in the last 10 years (though we nearly had a one season wonder). That shouldn't be a massive surprise.

I would say that, along with Wasps, tiggers, sarries and potentially exe, we are one of 4 or 5 teams that have ever had a sustained run of success in what I'd call modern rugby.

Quins have won multiple trophies since being relegated, not just the Premiership. Likewise Saints, including Heineken Cup Final appearances. Wasps have won Heineken Cups, hell, even an Anglo Welsh Cup. Tigers won a trophy most years for most of the last decade or two. Even, Gloucester, yes Gloucester have won a couple of trophies.

There are 2 teams AT THE MOMENT who are challengers, yes, but most of the Premiership has won a trophy in the last decade, we haven't won anything. And it's the delusional, "we're not that bad" attitude you see by some people on here that, if it's also present in the squad, is a good reason why we haven't done anthing of note in a long time.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 03:00
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
DanWiley
Quins and saints have also been relegated, so would you trade their current position and that relegation for that win? I could go either way, on balance I'd rather not be relegated.
Wasps won it 2008 and don't look any more like winning it again than us. They had a long purple patch as did we before them.

So you're really asking "why aren't we Saracens, Exeter or Leicester" and to be honest tiggers seem on the wane.

So basically there's about 2 teams that are really challengers, plus a few one season wonders, in any 5 year period and we've not been one of those 4 in the last 10 years (though we nearly had a one season wonder). That shouldn't be a massive surprise.

I would say that, along with Wasps, tiggers, sarries and potentially exe, we are one of 4 or 5 teams that have ever had a sustained run of success in what I'd call modern rugby.

Quins have won multiple trophies since being relegated, not just the Premiership. Likewise Saints, including Heineken Cup Final appearances. Wasps have won Heineken Cups, hell, even an Anglo Welsh Cup. Tigers won a trophy most years for most of the last decade or two. Even, Gloucester, yes Gloucester have won a couple of trophies.

There are 2 teams AT THE MOMENT who are challengers, yes, but most of the Premiership has won a trophy in the last decade, we haven't won anything. And it's the delusional, "we're not that bad" attitude you see by some people on here that, if it's also present in the squad, is a good reason why we haven't done anthing of note in a long time.

Quins were relegated in 2005. In addition to winning the Prem, Quins won Big Vase in 2011. That's two things. Although I am prepared to concede that two things are more than one thing, I'm not really sure two things allows one to say "multiple things", especially when one is using the argument to conclude that Quins have been a winning machine. That would be like saying that Bath are a very bad team because of the "multiple times" we've been relegated.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 07:04
I don’t even understand how a trawl through the last 20 years of the premiership for all the teams in it is of relevance to today’s team in a different era of the game with different owners, coaches, players and most importantly the point of this thread... are we saying that in the last 20 years other prem teams haven’t thrown games away and Bath have? Or just more doom and gloom for the sake of it?

[Also, I have posted this before but Wasps seem to have been the team who really struggled in the last 20s:

[www.coventrytelegraph.net]

Not since the comeback away at Gloucester to secure a 25-25 draw has Dai Young's side ended a match in the ascendancy, winning the final 20 minutes 19-7 on that occasion to silence Kingsholm.

Only twice in their last 10 games have Wasps won the final quarter, the other being the rout of Harlequins while down to 14 men but even that last section was just 12-7 to Wasps in a game they won by 22 points.
]



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2019 09:30 by BathMatt53.

 
DanWiley
DanWiley (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 07:56
We won the ECC within the scope of your list.
Wasps won the HEC in 2007? And the aw in 2006?
I don't even vaguely remember what or when glaws won anything.

Tiggers have enjoyed remarkable success. No doubt.

Sarries and Exeter's success will come and go, and then they'll probably go through years of "transition" just like wasps and ourselves have, and I suspect tiggers are about to enjoy.

No team can demand a seat at the top table in perpetuity. If you are an owner you can run a good club and hope things come together due an extended period. As a fan you need to accept that there's very little you can do to influence your team.

Edit: I agree with Matt, I suspect we throw away no more games than many other teams in the league and quite often enjoy games being throw at us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2019 07:57 by DanWiley.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 10:27
If you think you will be beaten you already are.

 
seb
seb (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 10:42
Perhaps it skips generations? 96 Cup final vs Leicester - probably should have lost but Leicester (Neil Back) lost the plot and the 98 final vs Brice. Both games tight but closed out successfully . There are many other examples from the 90’s

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 10:50
Interesting watching Saracens loosing to Sale.

Having been outplayed for 65 minutes they still salvaged a losing bonus point in the last minute and made time for Sale to KO back to them.....

 
cookiecrumble
cookiecrumble (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 11:00
Quote:
DanWiley
Sarries and Exeter's success will come and go, and then they'll probably go through years of "transition" just like wasps and ourselves have

I’m sure this will change over the next couple seasons, but Exeter have only won 1 prem title, and some AW cups. They get spoken about in the same bracket as Saracens, but Saracens have won prem titles and H-Cups. Exeter have only won as many prem titles as Saints and Quins, as on late.

I expect Chiefs will go on and win the Prem this year and prove me wrong! Although I do think they are at a crossroads at the moment, specifically with more of their players getting picked for England compared to previous years, and big naming signings like Hogg, which hasn’t been their ‘style’ to date. Maybe it will be the final piece of the puzzle that leads them into a period of dominance, like Sarries.

 
samlee99
samlee99 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 11:42
Quote:
cookiecrumble
Quote:
DanWiley
Sarries and Exeter's success will come and go, and then they'll probably go through years of "transition" just like wasps and ourselves have

I’m sure this will change over the next couple seasons, but Exeter have only won 1 prem title, and some AW cups. They get spoken about in the same bracket as Saracens, but Saracens have bought prem titles and H-Cups. Exeter have only won as many prem titles as Saints and Quins, as on late.

Exeter and Quins titles wins weren't tarnished though.

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 11:47
I think Exeter will find it increasingly difficult to maintain their squad size and depth as more of their team are recognised by England. This usually leads to greater salary demands and more requirement for injury cover. This inevitably has a knock on effect to the rest of the squad and ability to stay within the cap. I believe (I may be wrong) that the average age of their squad was quite low, this again will increase salary pressure when trying to retain their current incumbents

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 11:53
Quote:
DanWiley
Edit: I agree with Matt, I suspect we throw away no more games than many other teams in the league and quite often enjoy games being throw at us.

Oh come on.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 12:07
BO unless you or I or anyone really wants to crunch the numbers for the last 5, 10 or 20 years matches it just comes down to perception (i.e. confirmation bias). My view is that we notice Bath throwing away leads a lot more than we notice other teams throwing away leads.

Sarries last weekend were up and lost:

[www.premiershiprugby.com]

as did Bristol

[premiershiprugby.com]

bristol did it to newcastle the week before:

[www.premiershiprugby.com]

In every round there are games where one team lets a lead go. Its not just Bath.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
07 January, 2019 12:11
bo - of your 11 games, we actually won 3 and drew 2 - you're actually citing games that we won as illustrations of the premise 'throwing games away'.

But for FB's bizarrely catastrophic micro-second, Toulouse effectively 'threw the game away'. In the Glos game, both sides could be accused of 'throwing it away'.

You're basically being proven right on many points, but why the need to exaggerate? It's like having an open goal from 2 yards, feeling the need to smash the ball as hard as you can, hitting the bar and the ball dribbling over the line off your backside. You score - but it also makes it hard to take you seriously.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
02 March, 2019 18:58
Quote:
DanWiley
Edit: I agree with Matt, I suspect we throw away no more games than many other teams in the league

You were saying?

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
02 March, 2019 19:01
Post updated with our latest two, two weeks running.

 
recman
recman (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
02 March, 2019 19:33
I had to chuckle when, during the Gloucester-Saracens game last week, the commentator said something to the effect of "the last time Saracens were 13 points down and came back to win the game was about 3 years ago against....", well, we need hardly ask!

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
02 March, 2019 19:36
Quote:
recman
I had to chuckle when, during the Gloucester-Saracens game last week, the commentator said something to the effect of "the last time Saracens were 13 points down and came back to win the game was about 3 years ago against....", well, we need hardly ask!

(Sm6)

 
Long Term
Long Term (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
02 March, 2019 20:12
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
recman
I had to chuckle when, during the Gloucester-Saracens game last week, the commentator said something to the effect of "the last time Saracens were 13 points down and came back to win the game was about 3 years ago against....", well, we need hardly ask!

(Sm6)

Nice to see you enjoying yourself! (Sm135)

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
02 March, 2019 21:37
I thought beforehand we were quite likely to lose this match based on our relative league positions & our astonishing ability to pull defeats out of winning positions. When we gained the penalty on our own line with 40 seconds to go & everyone was celebrating I said to my neighbour that we could be certain we would once again find an ingenious way of losing in the final seconds. It took some doing. We had to run to take the throw in. We had to avoid taking the simple risk free throw to the front of the line out. Then had to allow Harlequins plenty of space to build their attack & usher them over the line. We managed it in the nick of time! I thought it was hard to achieve against Saints but this seemed almost impossible even for Bath.

 
annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
02 March, 2019 22:41
"Not ANoTHER one"!!!!!!!!! eye rolling smiley

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 11:56
For my two-pennyworth - do we have the inability of finding a good, intelligent, gritty and consistent captains to lead the team and make those critical decisions?

When Chudley was oddly removed from the fray yesterday it was impossible to read who was actually leading on the pitch - can anyone enlighten me as to actually took over as captain?

The final play with 30 seconds on the clock, with a penalty to us and Bath effectively in full control there were several options to see the game out.

Firstly Stooke "feigns" injury so referee stops the clock, why? - if we just delay at this point a few pcecious seconds could have elapsed.
Then why not take a tap, form a controlled ruck, perhaps another phase by which time the ball could have been booted out.
A well-cotrolled scrum could have eaten the time away and a boot out the back would have finished it.
No, Priestland is rushed into an unconsidered boot into touch and the rest is history.
He did this against Gloucester and the result was the same (but only a draw coceded)

Who on the pitch as "captain" allowed that to happen?
It's not rocket science, brains and intelligence and awareness win matches as much as brawn.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 13:19
Quote:
johnnyf
Then why not take a tap, form a controlled ruck, perhaps another phase by which time the ball could have been booted out.

Win a penalty on our own try line and you want us to take a quick tap? Really?

Quote:
A well-cotrolled scrum could have eaten the time away and a boot out the back would have finished it.

The scrum was a lottery all day, Carley could have easily given Quins another penalty there, under our own posts.

Quote:
No, Priestland is rushed into an unconsidered boot into touch and the rest is history.

It was a big kick and he reached half way. A profesional team, playing at home, should really be expected to win a lineout under those circumstances.

It's very easy to look back in hindsight and say that the decision making was wrong, but it wasn't. Setting up that lineout on half way was the right thing to do, they just blundered it.

 
john fox
johnnyf (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 14:16
No, that's all too easy ballsout.
All at Bath currently is tainted by "whole team responsibility".
Nothing will change until individuals stand up to account whether that be coaches or players.

Somebody yesterday was suposed to be managing - and it's not the workers who should take responibility it's the fault of management for not getting "the team" into knowing what their roles/responsibilities are.
On the pitch the captain assumes that responsibility.
We need a captain who can carry out that role for 80 minutes - if he is substituted/injured the next in line carries that on.

Fudged excuses after the fact will not change that chain of responsibility only individual management culpability.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 14:36
Quote:
johnnyf
No, that's all too easy ballsout.
All at Bath currently is tainted by "whole team responsibility".
Nothing will change until individuals stand up to account whether that be coaches or players.

Somebody yesterday was suposed to be managing - and it's not the workers who should take responibility it's the fault of management for not getting "the team" into knowing what their roles/responsibilities are.
On the pitch the captain assumes that responsibility.
We need a captain who can carry out that role for 80 minutes - if he is substituted/injured the next in line carries that on.

Fudged excuses after the fact will not change that chain of responsibility only individual management culpability.

I'm not arguing against any of that. All I'm saying is kicking for touch was the right decision, it was the only thing to do when you're under your own posts.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 14:49
As BO says the kick to touch sounds like the correct decision.
The wrong decision was the lineout call. It should have been front ball, or middle at a push, but NEVER tail.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 14:49
On the captaincy thing I think this is a bit of a modern rugby malaise.

At the level that most of us played rugby the skipper was the guy who was most confident, clued up and usually one of the better if not best player.

He was also the guy that we were a bit scared of upsetting lest we get a b288king for goofing it up.

At higher levels where teams are managed the captain is now a token position, (E.g. Guy Mercer), they offer little on the field as it is all predetermined.

Personally I'd like to see a position of authority on the field above the players but below the manager but a captain who can dictate play on the field and work within the ethos of the coach but alter the on field tactics as appropriate.

I don't see anyone like that in our side or for that matter in the Prem? Corect me if I'm wrong.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 15:36
The issue is the prevalence of costly individual errors at key moments across the team.

A non-exhaustive list from yesterday, off the top of my head:

Burns - drops the initial kick off and is flimsy under numerous high balls giving them field position

Jamie Roberts - Flying up out of the line to give them an overlap that they duly punish, albeit with some handling magic from Mike Brown

Vuna - Non existent (almost Benny Hill esq) under the high ball and slips off Earle at the end

Priestland - drops that pass in midfield gifting them their second try

Batty - The last line out

All these players did great things too: Burns' break leading to our first try; Priestland's kicking; Batty's support line for his try... It's different players each week.

They are top top players with so much experience at club, national and even lions level, yet Bath's players are making these sorts of errors week after week after week. Something is up. You have to question the culture - not of effort or commitment, but of responsibility. Who is tallying up all these blunders? Is there any sort of punitive consequence for making them? It just all seems so apologetic and a bit soft. The Bath of old we are not.

 
recman
recman (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:11
Correct, and add to that list, stopping for one of their tries assuming there had been a knock-on.

We can all see that there's a problem, but it's difficult to define exactly what "it" is, which is what you have to do if you're going to fix it.

"It" seems to be numerous different errors by different players, at critical points. Maybe Blackadder will eventually go back to New Zealand shaking his head, as bemused as the rest of us, thinking this was a problem that was impossible to solve.

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:16
Quote:
Dorset Boy
As BO says the kick to touch sounds like the correct decision.
The wrong decision was the lineout call. It should have been front ball, or middle at a push, but NEVER tail.

I would have called the low throw to the front player, one of those you only get away with once a match but even if not secured would have been unlikely to cause a problem. Pass back to the hooker, set up the ruck by the touchline.

 
Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:20
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
Dorset Boy
As BO says the kick to touch sounds like the correct decision.
The wrong decision was the lineout call. It should have been front ball, or middle at a push, but NEVER tail.

I would have called the low throw to the front player, one of those you only get away with once a match but even if not secured would have been unlikely to cause a problem. Pass back to the hooker, set up the ruck by the touchline.

"Simples" if we can think about it, why can't they ? (Sm128)



Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:33
The problem with narrow losses is that you can persuade yourself that everything would be fine if you can just improve things by a tiny amount.

And this is of course true.

But you have to have the ability to improve things by that tiny amount!



Stuart

Former ed.

 
Barnoid
Barnoid (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:45
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
Dorset Boy
As BO says the kick to touch sounds like the correct decision.
The wrong decision was the lineout call. It should have been front ball, or middle at a push, but NEVER tail.

I would have called the low throw to the front player, one of those you only get away with once a match but even if not secured would have been unlikely to cause a problem. Pass back to the hooker, set up the ruck by the touchline.

"Simples" if we can think about it, why can't they ? (Sm128)

Right, but it was thrown to the front. Douglas is the jumper at 2. Where are you all getting your information that it was thrown to the tail?

I think we can say, in this instance at least, that the decision making was not at fault.

http://i66.tinypic.com/25s03mx.jpg

 
The Oilman
The Oilman (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:51
This post should be renamed:
"The Art of Throwing Games Away"

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:53
Quote:
TCM2007
The problem with narrow losses is that you can persuade yourself that everything would be fine if you can just improve things by a tiny amount.
And this is of course true.

But you have to have the ability to improve things by that tiny amount!

Throwing away game after game after game does not = "only need to improve by a tiny amount".

 
by
by (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 17:55
Our lineout was 100% up to that point, which makes it ever so much more frustrating. The backline looked as if they went to sleep once Priestland kicked that ball into touch.

Burns should have stayed out for their 3rd try, one of the two tacklers should have stopped the offload for their 4th and Vuna should have tackled Earle at the end. Those were the big moments for me.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 18:25
For me Batty bottled the throw. Or the lifters didn't get Levi (who is very heavy granted) off the floor. I don't think it was Levi's error- it was too far above him. Either way, such an elementary mistake.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 18:26
Quote:
Barnoid
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
Dorset Boy
As BO says the kick to touch sounds like the correct decision.
The wrong decision was the lineout call. It should have been front ball, or middle at a push, but NEVER tail.

I would have called the low throw to the front player, one of those you only get away with once a match but even if not secured would have been unlikely to cause a problem. Pass back to the hooker, set up the ruck by the touchline.

"Simples" if we can think about it, why can't they ? (Sm128)

Right, but it was thrown to the front. Douglas is the jumper at 2. Where are you all getting your information that it was thrown to the tail?

I think we can say, in this instance at least, that the decision making was not at fault.

http://i66.tinypic.com/25s03mx.jpg

Oh god this image will haunt my dreams confused smiley !

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 18:32
Or Quins, with nothing to lose, gambled, and got it right as a last throw of the dice. It happens in the line out quite often. We nicked 2-3 of theirs. I’d agree with the poster who suggested that a tap and go through a couple of safe phases was just about the safest way to see off 30 seconds.

 
recman
recman (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 19:52
There are no "safe phases" when Bath have the ball with 30 seconds to go and a narrow lead. I can recall at least one occasion in the past couple of seasons where we've been turned over in such a situation. Even if we had secured the lineout there would have been an agonising 30 seconds where anything could have happened. We really are that bad in these kinds of circumstances.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 20:36
I'm just trying to imagine the outcry if Bath were idiotic enough to tap and go from a penalty, on their own try line with 30 seconds to go. Especially with Carley reffing.

Not a pleasant image.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 20:39
OK, but it wasn't nicked. That pic shows the throw ridiculously high.

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 21:23
I see a Bath hand (well fingers at least unless he has very stubby ones) touching it and no Quins hand anywhere near it.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 22:05
Quote:
ballsout
I'm just trying to imagine the outcry if Bath were idiotic enough to tap and go from a penalty

You sound as though you’re thinking of ‘tap and go’ as some sort of mad, chuck it around in your own 22 Baa-Baas move. All it is, is what a line out becomes, except without the lottery if the line out. I agree that we seem to be capable of locating our toes whichever way the gun is pointing, but a tap and go really should be pretty much fool-proof. It’s much more likely that the team without the ball would offend in their desperation to turn it over.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 22:07
One word H.....gravity....it did come down 14,509 people watched the next 30 seconds in horror and disbelief.



Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 22:12
Quote:
hasta
OK, but it wasn't nicked. That pic shows the throw ridiculously high.


In fairness to Batty the lift could be late or low.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 22:22
Douglas seems to be at full extension, bending backwards...

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
03 March, 2019 23:17
I must say that this whole analysis has got me in stitches so thanks for that. If supporters of other clubs knew what we have been going through they would also be highly amused. It seems that despite not delivering any of their season’s targets this coAching team have made us the laughing stock of domestic professional rugby. If you didn’t have first hand knowledge you wouldn’t believe that a top level sports team could be so inept for so long!

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 08:55
Quote:
hasta
Douglas seems to be at full extension, bending backwards...

Not worth arguing about. A c**k up by any description.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 09:32
Why is a tap and go a bad idea? Prop taps and turns to make safe carry in a pod of probably three tight 5 forwards. Delay at base, then pass back to someone who runs backwards and boots it off the pitch.
?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 09:38
Precisely Danny. It is like a lineout or scrum, except without the element of competition.

It always amazes me when teams have a penalty in a fairly central position, that they kick to touch, so as to set up a maul (which as often as not ends up in a series of rucks) - which they could perfectly easily do with a tap and go, whilst retaining attacking options both sides of the maul/breakdown, and eliminating the opportunity for the opposition to nick the lineout.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 10:43
Knowing our luck, the ref would ping us for pre-binding before contact (another of those laws refs ignore). Or we'd knock it on as contact is made.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 10:48
Quote:
dannyf2
Why is a tap and go a bad idea? Prop taps and turns to make safe carry in a pod of probably three tight 5 forwards. Delay at base, then pass back to someone who runs backwards and boots it off the pitch.
?

Because you're on your own try line, 2 points down and 45 seconds left on the clock? Way too precarious a position to try something like that. Especially with our ball retention and skill level.

There's a reason why you never, ever see a team do that in that situation. It's always kick to touch.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 10:51
Interesting I was saying to everyone and anyone around me just to tap and not go, to pick up and not go if you do that 3 at a push 4 times you would have run the clock down.

Scrum is too random as you could easily give away a penalty.

I acknowledge that a line out on the half way line is the next best option, however Batty and Douglas had both been subbed on so the fact that we had won all of our lineouts prior to that is irrelevant as it was with different personnel.

Even with them winning the lineout we should have defended the 10 yard line as if it was our try line!!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 10:56
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
dannyf2
Why is a tap and go a bad idea? Prop taps and turns to make safe carry in a pod of probably three tight 5 forwards. Delay at base, then pass back to someone who runs backwards and boots it off the pitch.
?

Because you're on your own try line, 2 points down and 45 seconds left on the clock? Way too precarious a position to try something like that. Especially with our ball retention and skill level.

There's a reason why you never, ever see a team do that in that situation. It's always kick to touch.

Says the 'supporter' (sic) of the team that followed his advice and lost the game.

Why it is 'precarious'? That seems to be such an antediluvian view point. You will see in practically every single game these days, outside backs passing the ball along the line within metres of their own posts in order to secure a better starting point for the clearance kick, in a way that was unthinkable 15-20 years ago. Why? Because the players trust their own basic skills to function in the same way in their own 22 as those skills do in the opposition 22. If you can catch and pass a ball there is simply no reason to be concerned whereabouts on the pitch you are. Likewise with a couple of basic phases of running forwards, and going to the floor safe in the knowledge that you have support on your shoulder.

But you prefer a lineout, which is a 100% contestable scenario.

The caveat is that, of course, Bath's basics are somewhat lacking - but that doesn't change the premise that it is essentially safer to have the all in your own hands, than to toss it down the middle of a row of forwards from either side.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 11:12
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
dannyf2
Why is a tap and go a bad idea? Prop taps and turns to make safe carry in a pod of probably three tight 5 forwards. Delay at base, then pass back to someone who runs backwards and boots it off the pitch.
?

Because you're on your own try line, 2 points down and 45 seconds left on the clock? Way too precarious a position to try something like that. Especially with our ball retention and skill level.

There's a reason why you never, ever see a team do that in that situation. It's always kick to touch.

Says the 'supporter' (sic) of the team that followed his advice and lost the game.

Why it is 'precarious'? That seems to be such an antediluvian view point. You will see in practically every single game these days, outside backs passing the ball along the line within metres of their own posts in order to secure a better starting point for the clearance kick, in a way that was unthinkable 15-20 years ago. Why? Because the players trust their own basic skills to function in the same way in their own 22 as those skills do in the opposition 22. If you can catch and pass a ball there is simply no reason to be concerned whereabouts on the pitch you are. Likewise with a couple of basic phases of running forwards, and going to the floor safe in the knowledge that you have support on your shoulder.

But you prefer a lineout, which is a 100% contestable scenario.

The caveat is that, of course, Bath's basics are somewhat lacking - but that doesn't change the premise that it is essentially safer to have the all in your own hands, than to toss it down the middle of a row of forwards from either side.

Next time a team does what you're suggesting in the same situation, let me know.

I'll be waiting a while, because teams aren't that stupid, and it never happens.

Passing the ball along the backline for a better clearance kick is different, the ball is in play and it needs shipping somewhere. It actually proves my point, it's better than take it into contact (like you're suggesting) and risk losing it or getting pinged. Just as team's should trust their ability to make a pass, they should trust their ability to either a) win a lineout on halfway, or b) defend their half from a score with the clock up.

If Bath had tried to kill the game on their own line and gotten pinged or turned over (again, Bath retention + Carley) and lost the game to a kick in front of the posts. There would be uproar on this site and everyone would be screaming why didn't they take a lineout on halfway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2019 11:13 by ballsout.

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 11:46
You sum exactly the problem with our rugby Mr Ballsout.....it is too predictable and played by numbers and consequently too easy to defend against or indeed attack on the line out as it was a guarantee it was going to number 2 in the line out.

What if we had taken the line out, I bet nobody but nobody on the Quins team would have been ready for a long ball over the top with our back row and Kahn running round to collect.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 11:49
I don't think either of us is proving anything much at all bo - just viewpoints. The uproar on this site shouldn't be any greater or less for the failure to execute any of the basic skills required to convert a situation in which you have possession through to the final whistle 30 seconds later. As with all these situations - from England's notorious World Cup exit through to the calamity of last Saturday - it has practically nothing to do with the decision and everything to do with the execution. It's all immensely frustrating.

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 11:51
We could debate all week on what type of tactic should have been used, but for me the most important point is why Bath do not have the mental strength to keep the ball for 30s at the end of a game to secure the win?

Could you imagine Sarries or Exeter making such a mess of the last play? Not a chance.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
MESSAGES->author
woodpecker (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 14:16
I just checked the table and surprisingly we are 7th!

I also saw this, i could have sworn it was Union:

Gallagher Premiership Rugby League Rules
During Gallagher Premiership Rugby points will be awarded as follows:
• 4 points will be awarded for a win
• 2 points will be awarded for a draw
• 1 point will be awarded to a team that loses a match by 7 points or less
• 1 point will be awarded to a team scoring 4 tries or more in a match


Read more at [www.premiershiprugby.com]

 
Bath Supporter Jack

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 15:34
Actually Woodie you highlight the doubly frustrating thing this weekend in that all the other results went our way and but for the final 30 seconds we would have been in a very solid fifth place!!

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 15:55
And yet it is the end of the world as we know it - 30 secs too long, cms too high.

 
dannyf2
dannyf2 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 18:38
But for the record, a tap and go would've been the best.

 
MESSAGES->author
TCM2007 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 20:12
Any plan would have been liable to a simple error, as happened on Saturday. Unfortunately our line out under pressure (defensive when defending a lead or attacking when trying to win) fails with metronomic regularity. I don’t understand it.



Stuart

Former ed.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
04 March, 2019 23:22
Quote:
TCM2007
Any plan would have been liable to a simple error, as happened on Saturday. Unfortunately our line out under pressure (defensive when defending a lead or attacking when trying to win) fails with metronomic regularity. I don’t understand it.

I think it's the difference between champion sides and not. We are manifestly not. But look at Will Chudley. He's come out of the Exeter environment and seems to understand the right thing to do at any point in the game. Until the majority of our squad are able to do the same, we will continue to have things like Saturday happen to us.

To be clear, very few sides are able to do this at any one time, which is why we have dominant club dynasties. We did it long ago, then the Tigs, then Wasps and now Sarries and Exeter. But if we want to be back at the top, that's where we've got to aim.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
05 March, 2019 13:58
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
TCM2007
Any plan would have been liable to a simple error, as happened on Saturday. Unfortunately our line out under pressure (defensive when defending a lead or attacking when trying to win) fails with metronomic regularity. I don’t understand it.

I think it's the difference between champion sides and not. We are manifestly not. But look at Will Chudley. He's come out of the Exeter environment and seems to understand the right thing to do at any point in the game. Until the majority of our squad are able to do the same, we will continue to have things like Saturday happen to us.


To be clear, very few sides are able to do this at any one time, which is why we have dominant club dynasties. We did it long ago, then the Tigs, then Wasps and now Sarries and Exeter. But if we want to be back at the top, that's where we've got to aim.

Same in footy - it is why Barca have beaten RM so many times and won so many La Liga in last decade. Their playing style is in the club's DNA. Transcends changes in coaching personnel

Our club DNA has a certain flaw

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
05 March, 2019 14:26
Fair points Joe/gaz. Unfortunately (IMO) there doesn’t seem to be a route to the top table that doesn’t involve an extended period of playing cynical and mind-numbingly dull rugby, and that’s not a style for which the pretty city has a high degree of patience. Such a shame that Mike Ford had to stuff things up rather than kick on to the next level.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
05 March, 2019 14:34
Quote:
Optimist
Fair points Joe/gaz. Unfortunately (IMO) there doesn’t seem to be a route to the top table that doesn’t involve an extended period of playing cynical and mind-numbingly dull rugby, and that’s not a style for which the pretty city has a high degree of patience. Such a shame that Mike Ford had to stuff things up rather than kick on to the next level.

The one thing that Sarrie and Exe (and Leinster) have in common is a fantastic academy IMO. It means that, in relation to the prem, under the cap current rules you can have a large and talented squad able to make it through the season and who have played with each other for maybe a decade in some cases - so play brilliantly as a team. Then sprinkle on a bit of glitter in the form of a few top outsiders. It’s a win-win and IMO in 5 years Bath will be in that position IF they are able to transition their existing young talent though into the first team as is their aim.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
05 March, 2019 15:43
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Optimist
Fair points Joe/gaz. Unfortunately (IMO) there doesn’t seem to be a route to the top table that doesn’t involve an extended period of playing cynical and mind-numbingly dull rugby, and that’s not a style for which the pretty city has a high degree of patience. Such a shame that Mike Ford had to stuff things up rather than kick on to the next level.

The one thing that Sarrie and Exe (and Leinster) have in common is a fantastic academy IMO. It means that, in relation to the prem, under the cap current rules you can have a large and talented squad able to make it through the season and who have played with each other for maybe a decade in some cases - so play brilliantly as a team. Then sprinkle on a bit of glitter in the form of a few top outsiders. It’s a win-win and IMO in 5 years Bath will be in that position IF they are able to transition their existing young talent though into the first team as is their aim.

For that to happen you need the right DOR and coaching team in place. Look at Sarries, Exeter and Leinster, they all got the off pitch team sorted first.

There is no sign that Bath are getting it right off the pitch for things to move in the right direction on the pitch.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
05 March, 2019 15:48
No sign? Booth and Edwards are leaving, that’s 2 of the 3 coaches. Who knows what the coaching team will look like in 5 years?



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
05 March, 2019 16:00
Quote:
BathMatt53
No sign? Booth and Edwards are leaving, that’s 2 of the 3 coaches. Who knows what the coaching team will look like in 5 years?

I guess I'm thinking more about the lack of prospect of getting the right DOR in place as being Bath's main problem.



Tom Dunn - Adopted player 2018/19

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: Throwing games away
05 March, 2019 16:12
Not sure anyone on here wouldn’t share that concern TBH



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]


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