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P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:22
No place for Big Joe? Very odd! Two loose forwards on bench, so no Ewels or Stooke either


England starting XV (523 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 29 caps), 14 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 32 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 21 caps), 12 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 31 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 44 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 69 caps) (captain), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 84 caps), 1 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 36 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 21 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 57 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 31 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 12 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 9 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 40 caps)

Finishers (203 caps)
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 10 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 8 caps), 18 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 84 caps), 19 Brad Shields (Wasps, 7 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 21 caps), 21 Ben Spencer (Saracens, 2 caps), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps), 23 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors 17 caps).

PG

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:30
Keeping Big Joe under wraps for the WC?

Hope George F has a thick blanket to keep him warm on the bench again

And why now switch to Spencer as replacement sub, has he seen enough of Robson already?

Weird

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:32
Quote:
gaz59
Keeping Big Joe under wraps for the WC?
Hope George F has a thick blanket to keep him warm on the bench again

And why now switch to Spencer as replacement sub, has he seen enough of Robson already?

Weird

Robson is injured Gaz



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:35
Robson injured gaz.

Eddie really is unbelievably conservative. England are at home, and miles stronger than Scotland. Why not take one minor risk? What is he going to learn about Jack Nowell, and what is Jack Nowell going to gain/benefit in WC terms? He could have thrown Cokanasiga in and the rewards at World Cup time of exposing him to a genuine test match could have been huge.

Eddie's motivation in selection often appears to be to prove that he is not swayed by the media or Joe public. It is a really good starting XV though (slight relief he has reverted to Tuilagi/Slade) and, apart from the entirely pointless Brad Shields, a good bench.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:35
Eddie clearly gets very upset when Bath wingers are made MotM, and drops them immediately for future matches.

I hadn't spotted Spencer in the wider squad, and really harsh on Robson to get binned after 10 minutes of international rugby in which he finished off a very good try. Both Spencer and Robson are much better than Youngs, but obviously have minimal international experience due to Eddie the pighead.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:37
Just seen the comments about Robson being injured.

Not wishing injury on someone, but it's a shame it isn't YBY that isn't fit this week.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:39
What happens if a back 3 player gets injured?

There's no wing cover at all.
Slade or George could drop to 15 I guess.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:39
This board should start coaching England, clearly knows much more about selection and rugby than Eddie Jones. Robson is "much better" than Youngs? Interesting.

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:40
Ok, hadn't spotted that but he heck did he get injured with just 10 minutes when the game was over?

Giving Joe opportunity from dealing with a quality kicking 10 and some pacy wingers I would have thought was way too good to miss but hey what do we know

And sure to hell if Ford is rated at all the chance to run a big game from the start was a no brainer?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:41
Quote:
ballsout
This board should start coaching England, clearly knows much more about selection and rugby than Eddie Jones. Robson is "much better" than Youngs? Interesting.

By the same logic you should be running Bath Rugby bo. Not.

 
DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:51
Quote:
ballsout
This board should start coaching England, clearly knows much more about selection and rugby than Eddie Jones. Robson is "much better" than Youngs? Interesting.

Ben slow inaccurate pass Youngs who has barely made a break in the last 3 years but has 70 odd caps of experience.
Spencer and Robson, two of the most dynamic 9s in the Premiership, but neither has been given a chance at international level because of Eddie's pigheadedness.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 10:58
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
ballsout
This board should start coaching England, clearly knows much more about selection and rugby than Eddie Jones. Robson is "much better" than Youngs? Interesting.

By the same logic you should be running Bath Rugby bo. Not.

Eddie Jones is a great coach. That's the difference. And I've never once argued about team selection at Bath.

 
Awp24975
Awp24975 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:03
The best XV we can put out considering injuries, the only change I’d consider is possibly Genge for Moon, however Genge from the bench is more dynamic so can see why.

Nowell and May are definitely first choice but would possibly have had Joe on the bench. Apart from that can sort of agree with Hughes and Shields as steady but unexciting options. Pick the best team, smash the Scots and see where we finish.... looking forward to the day out, a decent win and hopefully finishing top!

 
SJS
SJS (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:03
Quote:
gaz59
Ok, hadn't spotted that but he heck did he get injured with just 10 minutes when the game was over?

I read somewhere it was sickness, not injury. A real shame.

Surprised JC isn't in the team - yes, had he started against Ireland and Wales he might have been exposed by their high ball game, but I don't think Russell offers the same sort of threat. Would have been nice seeing him monster the wings.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:03
‘s fine, Eddie can’t injure them or they get injured playing in a meh game. Keeps them good for us. Result I’d say.

HOP

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:08
[quote sid the seagull]‘s fine, Eddie can’t injure them or they get injured playing in a meh game. Keeps them good for us. Result I’d say.

This. Especially given what happened to Watson about a year ago.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:14
The Calcutta Cup is a 'meh' game, with the 6 Nations title to play for, and the final competitive game before the World Cup? There must be some exciting stuff up on those ledges Sid if that's your idea of meh.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:17
Your mistake was paying any attention to what sid says

 
SJS
SJS (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:42
Quote:
ballsout
Your mistake was paying any attention to what sid says

Pot = kettle?

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:43
Fair enough to restore Nowell - with his experience, all round game and ability to cover 13 or 15 if necessary.

I did think though that Joe had done enough to make the 23 - IMHO at expense of Te'o whose defensive concentration lapsed a couple of times last Saturday and who did not shine in attack.

I also, like others, am not sure about Shields.


PG

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:50
Quote:
P G Tips
Fair enough to restore Nowell - with his experience, all round game and ability to cover 13 or 15 if necessary.

I'm a great fan of Nowell - i'd love to have seen him at 15 with Joe C in on the wing, for example. But I just don't understand why England have to resort to his experience and versatility when playing an injury-ravaged team they haven't lost to at home for a thousand years.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 11:54
EJ does seem to like to show he is in charge.

I am not sure about how many of that bench will feature in the WC 23. I imagine he would go with a Lawes type guy who can cover back-row instead of Shields, and I cannot see why Teo is on the bench when Farrell, Daly, Slade, Tuilagi and Nowell can all play centre. He should have either gone with an extra back 3 player or even an extra forward. As it is - what do we do if May gets injured? I suppose Slade goes to 15.

The WC squad is starting to take shape and it looks pretty strong:-

Hookers: George, Hartley (if fit), Cowan-Dickie
Props: Vunipola, Sinkler, Moon, Genge, Cole
2nd Row: Itoje, Launchbury, Lawes, Kruis,
Back Row: Vunipola, Underhill, Wilson, Curry, Hughes, Shields
9: Young, Care, Wigglesworth (not sure here but he covers 10 in an easier group game)
10: Ford, Farrell
Centres: Slade, Tuilagi, Teo, JJ
Back 3: Daly, May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Watson (if fit, otherwise Ashton)

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 12:05
Think you've got 32 there CB. Isn't WC squad 31?

If so, lose Shields, and hopefully swap Wigglesworth for Robson or Spencer and i'm with you on everyone. Agree that if Eddie can take that group to the WC, we'll have a chance of going all the way.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 12:50
You're right. I would be happy to lose Shields and go with Itoje and Lawes covering for a back-row emergency.

It is a strong squad made up of experience and new talent. Might he experiment with Underhill and Curry together?

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 13:03
I think he’s run out of experimenting time, though the US and Tonga games are virtually 2 extra warm-ups. As long as Wilson is fit and playing so well, I think Curry and Sam are competing for one shirt.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 13:10
That is a strong squad.

There will inevitably be some quality players disappointed - who could be called on in case of injury.

Williams, Ewels, Robshaw, Robson, Spencer, Ashton, Brown could all plug a gap if needed.

Eddie's constant experimenting with squad players could bring future benefit too- players like Obano, Singleton,Dunn, Isiekwe, Mercer,Clifford, Earl, Marcus Smith, Marchant, Nathan Earle have all been exposed to his training and will press their claims in time.


PG

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 14:50
I think we need a new young hooker to appear from somewhere after the WC. Maybe Singleton? May, Tuilagi, Teo and Youngs will need replacing during the next cycle but most of the backs look good for a while longer. A semi final or better this time round, and then a dominating spell after that. The concern is that they may all get old together. I still think Mercer has a part to play after the World Cup.

2023 side which might have a lot of caps by then:-

Sinkler
Singleton
Genge
Launchbury
Itoje
Underhill
Curry
Vunipola
???
Farrell
Watson
Slade
Marchant
Cokanasiga
Daly

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
14 March, 2019 15:35
Hopefully the game will change in the next cycle to favour skill over bulk and ball-in-hand over kicking in which case maybe George Ford will come back to the centre of the team.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
15 March, 2019 09:25
Not sure on that one.

Average size of an All Black player has jumped an incredible 15kg through the seven Rugby World Cups

Henry Slade is the same size as John Kirwan.

 
Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
15 March, 2019 13:47
At least this keeps them fresh for the Exeter encounter which is almost a must win if we want to reach the top 6.

 
cb2
cb2 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
15 March, 2019 14:03
I wonder if England's plan might change, if the championship is no longer on the line? Might Billy come off sooner or Cowan-Dickie be brought on after 40 minutes?

 
B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
15 March, 2019 15:56
The Wales result will have a fascinating impact on the atmosphere at Twickenham.

England will need to be professional whatever the situation.

I guess ideally you want your players to be unaware of the Wales result, but not practically possible. That's a tricky one for the management team, keeping a relaxed focus in the build up.

I assume the trophy will be starting the day in Cardiff but maybe strapped to the back of a motorbike in a hurry if Wales lose. Or is it helicopters these days? Or 2 trophy's?

 
SarrieSaint
SarrieSaint (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
15 March, 2019 16:23
Quote:
Optimist
Hopefully the game will change in the next cycle to favour skill over bulk and ball-in-hand over kicking in which case maybe George Ford will come back to the centre of the team.

Will he be a crash-ball one or a distributing one? (Sm115)

 
DownSouth
DownSouth (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 02:56
Uncomfortable reading about Jones mocking Scotland’s record. I wish he wouldn’t always be so antagonistic. Not much class at all.

I’ve got a lot of time for Gregor Townsend.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 06:14
Quote:
DownSouth
Uncomfortable reading about Jones mocking Scotland’s record. I wish he wouldn’t always be so antagonistic. Not much class at all.
I’ve got a lot of time for Gregor Townsend.

Agreed - it will probably just fire the Scots up even more tbh, not sure how it helps England.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 09:19
Eddie’s legacy is entirely dependent on a very strong World Cup. Other than results there is little else that i’ll remember him for in a positive sense.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 09:32
After the Scots antics last year at Murrayfield, let him mock them. Their record is pathetic at Twickenham so why not.

I think he raises the stakes of matches on purpose to raise the game of his own players.

 
Boldangrey
Boldangrey (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 11:52
Quote:
Optimist
Eddie’s legacy is entirely dependent on a very strong World Cup. Other than results there is little else that i’ll remember him for in a positive sense.

And Eddie's preparation for the RWC would be helped by a strong performance in the 6N.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 13:49
Dan Robson out for the foreseeable with ‘blood clots’ - awful news for the lad and hope he gets well soon. Sounds like that’s it for season whilst he takes blood thinners and could even be longer (or perminent)?



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/03/2019 13:55 by BathMatt53.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 19:41
Meh game?
I take it all, back that was amazing.
Well done the Scots almost wanted them to hang on.
Rugby eh?

FLAP

 
al Mossah
al Mossah (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
16 March, 2019 20:32
At HT Geech was saying that Scotland had to slow it down in 2nd half. Gregor obviously said something different

 
TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo (IP Logged)

Re: England - No Bath Players in 23 for Calcutta Cup
17 March, 2019 08:10
The complete absence of any coherent midfield defence by England made a game of it. If Scotland had stopped kicking sooner they would have won.


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