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BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 12:33
England squad announced
Forwards

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 11 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 10 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 58 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 71 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 59 caps)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps)
Brad Shields (Wasps, 8 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps)
Jack Singleton (Saracens, uncapped)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 9 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 41 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps)
Mark Wilson (Sale Sharks, 13 caps)

Backs
Danny Cipriani (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 30 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps)
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 40 caps)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps)
Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps)
Ben Spencer (Saracens, 3 caps)
Ben Te’o (unattached, 18 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 32 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 33 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)

In camp for rehabilitation
George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps)

Well done the 6 who made it!



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 12:35 by BathMatt53.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 12:50
Tough on Tom Dunn.

IMHO he is every bit as good as Singleton (& better in the loose). Maybe bias of course - or is it just one of 'Eddie's Things'?


PG

 
dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 12:56
Unlucky Tom Dunn, especially after his performance in the dodgeball.

Bravo RMcC. He must be really impressing. An amazing achievement.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 13:11
Selection of Heinz over Care is just pathetic. Eddie sacrificing 70-odd cap experience rather than admit he’s made a ridiculous stuff up on the 9 front for two years. Not much else to argue with, though i’m surprised he’s jettisoned Hartley.

Great news for our prospects that Marler is back in the fold too. It's effectively a 38-man squad now with the 3 x rehabs, so 7 to cut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 13:18 by Optimist.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 13:18
So a question for the experts: how indicative is this of the final squad?
Are there any outside this lot expected to come in?

PECK

 
MESSAGES->author
hemington (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 13:22
Plenty of time to get injured (particulalrly with Eddie at the helm).

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 13:24
Other than that?

HOP

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 13:25
Quote:
sid the seagull
So a question for the experts: how indicative is this of the final squad?
Are there any outside this lot expected to come in?

PECK

It's effectively 38 names - 21 forwards and 17 backs - so it would be very surprising if anyone else is genuinely in the frame. Care/Robshaw/Hughes/Hartley/Brown would, I guess, be on the reserve list in that they could slip fairly seamlessly in without too much pre-tournament camping.

16/15 split in the end or 17/14?

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 13:25
Agree Opti. Although I do rate Heinz, Danny Care has played brilliantly this season and is the most exciting 9 England has. Ben Youngs hasn't really stood out since he starred against Australia a few years ago has he? Out of that lot I would start Spencer mind you.

Dombrandt missing out for Ludlam seems a bit odd as well, but I guess its all about who has looked good in the training camp thus far. With only 2 quins players in the squad, it does look as if Eddie isn't a fan (no Brown, Smith or Robshaw, not that they are a surprise).



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 13:30 by BathMatt53.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 13:40
Agree about Spencer - I think he's going to leapfrog Youngs - just such a good athlete. I think both Dombrandt and Ludlow are just there for the next WC, which is one of Eddie's better points, that he'll have quite a few players who are familiar with the environment to step seamlessly into the boots of those that may retire after this WC.

 
sid the seagull
sid the seagull (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 14:17
Well I’m most pleased to see Cips there. If the formula is 17 down to 14 as Opti suggests
then considering the names on this list he has a good chance of going.

FLAP

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 14:21
Also just realised that Piers Francis is there and Alex Lozowski isn't? Crazy IMO given how well Lozowski performed this season and particularly in the big games.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 14:36
Eddie's take on the old boxing saw: 'I'll take a good big 'un over a good little 'un', is, 'I'll take a mediocre southern hemisphere 'un over literally any northern hemisphere 'un''.

 
P G Tips
P G Tips (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 15:16
He's consistently included Francis in squads but only capped him occasionally.

Lozowski seems to have paid for England's lacklustre showing against Japan (like Mercer).

PG

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 15:26
Good squad, well done Eddie. There aren't many surprises, which is a good thing.

[quote Optimist]Eddie sacrificing 70-odd cap experience rather than admit he’s made a ridiculous stuff up on the 9 front for two years.

Erm, picking Care would be him not able to admit he made a mistake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2019 15:27 by ballsout.

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 15:29
Piers Francis has actually had a pretty good season for Saints this year and it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s (his previous England performances notwithstanding). He has to be a likely contender for getting cut from the squad though.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 15:43
Quote:
hasta
Piers Francis has actually had a pretty good season for Saints this year and it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s (his previous England performances notwithstanding). He has to be a likely contender for getting cut from the squad though.

He isn't a bad player, but Lozowski was busy pulling up trees in a number of impressive performances for the league and euro champs (in multiple positions). Each to their own but I would have taken him - even if it would have meant that 8, 9, 10 and 12 were Saracens!



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 16:03
Quote:
hasta
it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s

...not with 12s who actually stay fit for more than a match or two anyway. If Eddie gave up on the 'must have a bosher' at 12 strategy, he'd have 5 pretty good options in Loz, Piers, Slade, Faz and Devoto, and so much less chance of having to rebalance the side at the last minute when the inevitable Tuilagi/Teo injuries occur.

 
MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 17:29
Quote:
sid the seagull
Well I’m most pleased to see Cips there. If the formula is 17 down to 14 as Opti suggests
then considering the names on this list he has a good chance of going.

FLAP

I sincerely hope so and he could do a great job at 10, a good job at 12 and fill in at 15 if needed.

I would be surprised if our R McC makes the cut but his inclusion here will do wonders for his confidence and hopefully motivate him to keep improving. I echo the musings of others above re Dunn's exclusion...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
hasta (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
04 July, 2019 22:53
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
hasta
it's not like our cup runneth over with 12s

...not with 12s who actually stay fit for more than a match or two anyway. If Eddie gave up on the 'must have a bosher' at 12 strategy, he'd have 5 pretty good options in Loz, Piers, Slade, Faz and Devoto, and so much less chance of having to rebalance the side at the last minute when the inevitable Tuilagi/Teo injuries occur.

I broadly agree Opti, but Slade and Loz have been much better playing at 13 with a bosher at 13...

 
bardofavon
bardofavon (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
06 July, 2019 12:55
england are now paying for relying on two such poor scrum halves as care and youngs- quite the worst choices of any international side in that position over the last 4 years.

youngs has been very lucky to have had so much international rugby ever since he came to attention playing for the u20s. he has had a miserable season and you suspect the rwc will be his swan song in a white shirt. he is already 29.

tuilagi has been very poor since returning to fitness. his defence has been abysmal. teo is just a tackle away from an injury. meanwhile at 13 jones has joseph, daly and slade options. if watson plays full back daly could slot back in at 13, his best position in my eyes.

it makes sense for slade to move to 12 as he has bulked up defensively and his left boot option gives jones the double playmaking option. i would prefer farrell/ slade over ford/ farrell.

has heinz been brought on board because jones actually intends to take cips? in which case whither ford?

my guess is that for all his claims that everything is going to plan, eddie actually remains conflicted about how his team- backs in particular- is going to line up. he'll try various combinations in the warm up games and these will give a clue as to his japan tactics. expect to see ruaridh play at 15 in one of them. eddie has already alluded to RM being the ideal utility player. does this mean nowell and RM are vying for the same spot?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2019 13:00 by bardofavon.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
06 July, 2019 16:28
Do you genuinely rate Care as a ‘poor’ scrum half? I would take him at Bath in a heartbeat.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
06 July, 2019 21:31
Quote:
BathMatt53
Do you genuinely rate Care as a ‘poor’ scrum half? I would take him at Bath in a heartbeat.

Club level, Care is a handful....he has continualy blown that at test level
Playing for 20 mins....ala wigglesworth isnt a plan for a rwc squad, imv.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
06 July, 2019 22:15
The guy has over 80 caps and he ‘has continually blown it at test level’? The WC requires a squad which includes players who won’t let you down - I think that Care can mix it with anyone and on form would have Spencer 1st choice (he is helped by 4, 5, 8 and 10 being sarries) with Care back up 9 tbh.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
07 July, 2019 00:16
Can you recall the last time he played a good 80 for England?
Youngs slow ball hasnt be eradicated and he has 80 odd caps too...??

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
07 July, 2019 09:17
Care isn't very good at Test level.

Youngs blows hot and cold.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
07 July, 2019 10:48
Quote:
John Tee
Can you recall the last time he played a good 80 for England?
Youngs slow ball hasnt be eradicated and he has 80 odd caps too...??

He has played 80 mins 5 times:

vs NZ in 07/08
vs France 6N 2010
vs South Africa 11/12
vs Ireland 6N 2014
vs Argentina 16/17

So his last 80 was away in Argentina in June 2017. Ruck gave him an 8/10 for that match:

9 Danny Care England’s efficient attack owed a lot to Care’s quick, accurate distribution. He also ran a great support line to score England’s third try in the second half. 8/10

Ben Spencer has never played more than 10 mins for England and yet he would be my go to 9. This is why I am not an International coach I suspect!



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
07 July, 2019 11:28
Quote:
John Tee
Can you recall the last time he played a good 80 for England?
Youngs slow ball hasnt be eradicated and he has 80 odd caps too...??

Out of interest do scrum halves play 80 mins at all these days?



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
07 July, 2019 12:58
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
John Tee
Can you recall the last time he played a good 80 for England?
Youngs slow ball hasnt be eradicated and he has 80 odd caps too...??

Out of interest do scrum halves play 80 mins at all these days?

Not so much, but Care hasn't been that player for England, plus he has been dropped in those 2 years.

I'd take Care if he could produce club form but he rarely has.

If you only take 2 9's try need to be able to control from the start.
That is why heinz is in the frame...in case Robo doesn't make it, imo

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 04:13
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
John Tee
Can you recall the last time he played a good 80 for England?
Youngs slow ball hasnt be eradicated and he has 80 odd caps too...??

Out of interest do scrum halves play 80 mins at all these days?

Not so much, but Care hasn't been that player for England, plus he has been dropped in those 2 years.

I'd take Care if he could produce club form but he rarely has.

If you only take 2 9's try need to be able to control from the start.
That is why heinz is in the frame...in case Robo doesn't make it, imo

I thought the cunning plan was for George to play at 9?



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 08:57
I think Care is partly a casualty of Faz being 'Eddie on the pitch'. Care at 9 has his own creative ideas, can be close to genius level with this boot, and some of that inventiveness takes him off script. England, under Eddie and Faz, have become more scripted than a West End play, and Faz wants to run the show.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 09:37
So Eddie wants the creative ability of Ruaridh McC but not in the most crucial creative positions, oh well that kind of thinking is similar to Gatland's. I think it gets you through the 'regulation games' but comes up short when the crunch matches rock up.

I have the distinct impression that we will need a slice of luck at the RWC, we will see on Thursday if the extraordinary ability of England teams to exit World cups at the semi final stage persists. Sadly I think we will need that luck to 'go long' in this competition.



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

 
gaz59
gaz59 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 09:57
Quote:
Optimist
I think Care is partly a casualty of Faz being 'Eddie on the pitch'. Care at 9 has his own creative ideas, can be close to genius level with this boot, and some of that inventiveness takes him off script. England, under Eddie and Faz, have become more scripted than a West End play, and Faz wants to run the show.

I reckon that is a harsh assessment. Eddie with Faz is about controlling the game. Care is a very busy player, always looking to play at a high tempo. When at his best this forces opposition into error and creates big space for himself and others but too many times it looks headless chicken stuff, well kind of Care-less actually!

But I would have him on the bench with spencer having the starting shirt. He then comes on to play to a plan and not a finely drafted script

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 10:11
Quote:
shipwrecked
So Eddie wants the creative ability of Ruaridh McC but not in the most crucial creative positions, oh well that kind of thinking is similar to Gatland's. I think it gets you through the 'regulation games' but comes up short when the crunch matches rock up.
I have the distinct impression that we will need a slice of luck at the RWC, we will see on Thursday if the extraordinary ability of England teams to exit World cups at the semi final stage persists. Sadly I think we will need that luck to 'go long' in this competition.

What we need most of all is luck around injuries - Mako, Billy V, Manu and Teo don't have the best recent records. The trouble is, they are quite inter-dependent. If you lose Billy, then Manu becomes more important and vice versa.

 
Awp24975
Awp24975 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 11:18
I like the look of the squad. The only change I’d make up front is Dombrant for Ludlam, and possibly a change at hooker. I like Singleton as a player, not so keen on Luke Cowan Dickie and would rather Thacker or Hartley in the squad ahead of him.

Backs wise, would prefer Care over Heinz.

Will be interesting to see who makes the cut. Thinking Charlie and one of either Joe or Ruaridh will miss out, which whilst disappointing for them is better for us!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 11:40
Quote:
Awp24975

Thinking Charlie and one of either Joe or Ruaridh will miss out, which whilst disappointing for them is better for us!

Difficult one that. Given it will be little cup games in England, would it be more of an advantage for England players to be learning in the England set-up and experiencing the WC (whether they play competitive matches or not) or potentially not even playing in the little cup games? It could be better for Bath Rugby to have as many players there as possible, then come home - have a rest - then push on for the rest of the season. On the flipside they would be nice and rested and have had a chance to gel more in those months. I'm undecided!



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 12:00
Care is like Faf in that he is always pushing....and taking risks, but England are risk adverse as personified by Farrell. That is also why they cant play off script.

England need to risk giving the ball away and get it back but they aren't very good at doing that...hence the 'plan A' and no plan B.
Basically jones doesn't trust the team, never has and hasnt addressed it in 4 years.
Hence we have been found out and not progressed.

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 12:48
Quote:
John Tee
Basically jones doesn't trust the team, never has and hasnt addressed it in 4 years.
Hence we have been found out and not progressed.

We can't say that till after the RWC though can we, his policy is pick the best guys on form rather than pick class, he might prove to be spot on, who knows?



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 13:48
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
John Tee
Basically jones doesn't trust the team, never has and hasnt addressed it in 4 years.
Hence we have been found out and not progressed.

We can't say that till after the RWC though can we, his policy is pick the best guys on form rather than pick class, he might prove to be spot on, who knows?

Do you believe that..?
Anyone decent has taken the game to us and caused problems these last two years.

Dont agree he has picked on form either.
Robson never played.
Cipriani ignored many times.
Slade has only just come good.
Never looked at Roko or Goode.
Persisted with Ford and Youngs
Ignores Morgan.
Picks Shields ..

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 14:00
The point is though JT we don't know, he hasn't turned into a team oozing creative back play thats obvious but its all about winning a tournament, his fill the team with experience policy based on previous RWC winners might be right.

When the pressure is on some players go to pieces, Woodward discovered that and needed 2 goes at it.

What would you say if he won the thing? Just got to go with it now rather than the 'told you so' when we fail.



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 16:29
I would have sacked him before the boks tour on the basis that we had fallen apart, but we didnt.
Yep, it will be a case of told you so ..I'm afraid.

Can we win despite him no, i really dont think we can.
I'll watch the RWC but have no expectations.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 17:08
I personally think that he has the experience vs talent ratio out of kilter in some cases. Quite a few of those players are a number of years past their prime (see Ben Youngs, Tuilagi) or 'average' in International talent terms (LCD, Shields, Francis).

Having said that, Eddie does have a very good 15 out of that lot - if they are all fit they could compete with most teams I would imagine. I guess the rest are good enough to beat USA and Tonga in the group stages.

Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 58 caps)
George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 10 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 41 caps)

Ben Spencer (Saracens, 3 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps)

Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 32 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 33 caps)



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2019 17:09 by BathMatt53.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
08 July, 2019 23:57
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
John Tee
Basically jones doesn't trust the team, never has and hasnt addressed it in 4 years.
Hence we have been found out and not progressed.

We can't say that till after the RWC though can we, his policy is pick the best guys on form rather than pick class, he might prove to be spot on, who knows?

Do you believe that..?
Anyone decent has taken the game to us and caused problems these last two years.

Dont agree he has picked on form either.
Robson never played.
Cipriani ignored many times.
Slade has only just come good.
Never looked at Roko or Goode.
Persisted with Ford and Youngs
Ignores Morgan.
Picks Shields ..

Robson blows hot and cold. He totally @£$@ the bed for England a year or so ago when given an opportunity.

Cipriani has two better 10s in front of him.

Roko and Goode aren't good enough for Test Rugby, as has been proven many times, especially for the latter.

Morgan? The guy is lazy a f and vanishes from matches. That has much has leaked out many times.

 
MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 00:46
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
John Tee
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
John Tee
Basically jones doesn't trust the team, never has and hasnt addressed it in 4 years.
Hence we have been found out and not progressed.

We can't say that till after the RWC though can we, his policy is pick the best guys on form rather than pick class, he might prove to be spot on, who knows?

Do you believe that..?
Anyone decent has taken the game to us and caused problems these last two years.

Dont agree he has picked on form either.
Robson never played.
Cipriani ignored many times.
Slade has only just come good.
Never looked at Roko or Goode.
Persisted with Ford and Youngs
Ignores Morgan.
Picks Shields ..

Robson blows hot and cold. He totally @£$@ the bed for England a year or so ago when given an opportunity.

Cipriani has two better 10s in front of him.

Roko and Goode aren't good enough for Test Rugby, as has been proven many times, especially for the latter.

Morgan? The guy is lazy a f and vanishes from matches. That has much has leaked out many times.

Possibly but Ben Morgan is a far, far better 8 than Nathan Hughes, which he has amply demonstrated for Glaws this season. And for whom he seems to be able to last 80 minutes playing a much higher tempo game than England generally do.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2019 00:50 by joethefanatic.

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 09:20
Great analysis bo. Especially Roko, who has played 'many, many' Tests - well 4 actually and scored 4 tries.

And Robson, whose int career consists of 10 minutes against France and 20 minutes against Italy. Lucky that the news about Morgan's laziness has been 'leaked'. Otherwise, one might have to actually watch him to form an opinion.

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 10:26
Quote:
joethefanatic
And for whom he seems to be able to last 80 minutes playing a much higher tempo game than England generally do.

Playing 80 minutes against Worcester or Harlequins isn't the same as Test level.

Quote:
Optimist
Great analysis bo. Especially Roko, who has played 'many, many' Tests - well 4 actually and scored 4 tries.
And Robson, whose int career consists of 10 minutes against France and 20 minutes against Italy. Lucky that the news about Morgan's laziness has been 'leaked'. Otherwise, one might have to actually watch him to form an opinion.

Wow, a post by Optimist that isn't a bizarelly obsessive dig at Eddie Jones. Now I've seen it all.

Watch how Robson played when he came on against the Barbarians last year. Even for Wasps he's up and down.

Maybe, just maybe, an international head coach knows more than a forum full of Bath rugby fans. He might even have more experience dealing with these players than us too. Strange concept I know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2019 10:28 by ballsout.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 10:34
Morgan lazy?

[www.premiershiprugby.com]

'Ben Morgan’s 280 carries was the third-highest of anyone this season and he lines up at No.8'.

Lazy git he was beaten by 2 people!

Not sure what you mean by 'vanishes' from matches.

As for the comment about an International coach. Well of course he does. However this is a forum 'a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged'. If everyone agreed with everyone else it would be pretty boring and you (of all people) should be comfortable with that?



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
ballsout
ballsout (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 12:57
Quote:
BathMatt53
Morgan lazy?
[www.premiershiprugby.com]

'Ben Morgan’s 280 carries was the third-highest of anyone this season and he lines up at No.8'.

Lazy git he was beaten by 2 people!

Find the premiershiprugby.com report that says he was kicked out of an England training squad when Eddie took over because of his work ethic. There are some things you hear that aren't on official sites. He's had a good season playing for Gloucester though, well done him.

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 13:16
Jones was named as the new England head coach on 20th November 2015. From what i have seen of him on the TV Morgan is a totally different player now than he was nearly 4 years ago?



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
opti
Optimist (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 14:36
Quote:
ballsout
Find the premiershiprugby.com report that says he was kicked out of an England training squad when Eddie took over because of his work ethic

You find it if you want to give some substance to your opinion.

Quote:
ballsout
There are some things you hear that aren't on official sites

Oh - right. You 'heard it' somewhere. Don't worry about finding the report, we'll just take your word for it.

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 17:57
Watched Morgan from tv games a lot this season.
He invariably lasts the distance iirc.
Good hands and better all round game that both Hughes and BV. Way more mobile than both, but Hughes at his swashbuckling best
would be good for England if he produced that ...which he often hasnt because someone insists he be Billy lite...??
BV has been fragile and his size can be negated by the best...even though he remains a big lump.
I worry he'll break at the rwc and hopefully Wilson, Curry and the reserve 8 can provide a better balance back row as they did in SA.

With that in mind, Morgan is a good late shout if Hughes isnt picked.
Who else is in the frame?

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 18:20
My impression is that it is only last season that he returned to form, was great in the Lancaster era, then seemed to switch off. Good to see him back to form!



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

 
BathMatt53
BathMatt53 (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 18:55
Morgan has had a ridiculous run of injuries - think he tore his calf a couple of times and another leg issue (knee?) before that. This season he got a good run and showed what he can do.



[Adoptee 18/19: Man Mountain Dave Attwood, back in the BB&W and ready to smash]

 
Omba
Omba (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 21:11
Quote:
Awp24975
one of either Joe or Ruaridh will miss out, which whilst disappointing for them is better for us!

Wouldn't you think that Joe goes as being the different style/size to the rest. Ruaridh is up v Nowell or Watson I think

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 21:22
I'd agree but its the injury card that will decide a great deal, Joe C will start as favourite but his style could be attritional which lets RMcC in with a chance.



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

 
John Tee
John Tee (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
09 July, 2019 22:14
Joe C is definitely the future, imv....it depends if this rwc is a bit too soon...
I think Jones likes a big winger...and hasnt got one apart from JC

 
MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked (IP Logged)

Re: England WC Training Squad
18 July, 2019 09:42
Found these on Shedweb:

Videos of Englands training camp, a few familiar faces and a good feel for the squad life.











https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!


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