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Waist High Tackling for RWC 2023?
Discussion started by Mike the Taxi (IP Logged), 08 August, 2019 18:16
Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
08 August, 2019 18:16
[www.bbc.co.uk] BeeB

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
08 August, 2019 19:22
It's a yes to this move from me and whilst we're at it the ball carrier and the tackler should be regarded as "out of the game" and roll away once they hit the ground leaving it to supporting players to compete for the ball. It was like this when I started playing [1971/72] and the game was better for it imho...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
08 August, 2019 20:17
The only thing that bothers me is that the 2nd hardest part of the human body is the hip and there are two of them. If the intent is to reduce concussions, this might not work. But it will increase offloads, leading to many more tries (hooray)

Also, from the Beeb;

What else is in the laws trials?
A basketball-style team foul limit that sees the final player to infringe given a yellow card as their team reaches the specific number of penalty or free-kick limit. YES

A 50:22 kick giving a team put-in to the line-out if they kick into touch indirectly (ie on the bounce) when kicking either from their own half into the opposition 22m or from inside their own 22m to the opposition half. The law aims to force wingers to drop deep out of the defensive line, creating space for the attacker to run the ball. NO

Review of a yellow card during a player's sin-bin period to ensure serious foul play is upgraded to a red card. YES, as long as that also includes acts of foul play that were *not* yellow carded.

Defending team awarded a drop-out from own tryline when attacking player is held up over the line. The current law is to award an attacking scrum five metres out. NO

World Rugby is also considering trials in reducing the number of replacements and a requirement for players to move away from the ball immediately when off their feet at a ruck. Very much YES to both, especially the first one. The second one is already Law.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
08 August, 2019 20:58
Its clearly not that straightforward though. ......an experiment that lowered the tackle height from shoulder height to the level of the tackled player's armpit in the second-tier Championship Cup last season had to be abandoned after concussions increased rather than dropped.



https://i.ibb.co/sbQsmcr/darren-atkins-5.jpg


Darren Atkins Age 21 years, Fullback, 6 ft 1 in, 13 st 4 lbs. Sadly injured for the rest of the season!

MESSAGES->author
shendy
08 August, 2019 21:28
The "basketball-style" cumulative one - we sort of have that already don't we? Someone's first penalty offence might be a yellow if the team have given away too many and been warned by the ref.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
08 August, 2019 22:31
Quote:
shendy
The "basketball-style" cumulative one - we sort of have that already don't we? Someone's first penalty offence might be a yellow if the team have given away too many and been warned by the ref.

Yep, I imagine it's just formalising it and maybe given the sports channels some snazzy new graphic they can stick on the screen.

You can probably be sure that the rule changes wont bring about the desired changes and will have a number of unexpected side effects. To me the objective of player safety seemed contradictory to World Rugby's expectations of a more exciting game i.e. longer ball-in-play, more attacking phases (and, therefore, tackles) and less of the 'slower' phases of the game.



Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

DanWiley
DanWiley
08 August, 2019 22:54
It's perfectly possible to tackle low safely, though it might take a change in attitude, player size and skills. I recall on TV someone trying to justify not doing it by saying "it's impossible to a great big guy like this to get down that low that quick." Great, let's take the emphasis away from these great big, unagile, skill deprived lumps. If their size becomes a liability we'll have fewer of them on the pitch and they'll be fewer of them to cause these injuries. I don't think a trial will work, you'll have teams saying "we'll ride out the cup it's involved with then go back to knocking lumps out of reach other." As I say, you need to enforce a change in attitude.

I'd rather leave the basketball rule in the hands of the ref. He's quite able to say "that's too many infringements, yellow". You'll get a situation where it's 5 nothing offenses, automatic yellow. 4 moderate offences, nothing. There's already too much judgement taken away from the ref, that's fundamentally the problem here, empower him to call the game and you'll have a much better game. Seems a bit unfair on the final player as well, "you were an inch Infront of the kicker on that chase, never mind the flanker who's being killing the game."

Rinkadink
Rinkadink
08 August, 2019 23:12
Awful idea, will have the opposite effect. Players don't want it either. Might have to switch to the other code full time.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
09 August, 2019 07:59
Re: tackle topic, I forgot to add it is important technique to get the head behind the legs in order to avoid a knee or a hip bone in the face then slide down the legs to bring the ball carrier to the ground. I would hope coaches are training youngsters in this technique today...



Adopted players: 2018/19 Michael Van Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
09 August, 2019 09:05
I think its a terrible idea, how can a big guy tackle a little guy below the waist

P G Tips
P G Tips
09 August, 2019 11:48
I like the sentiment but surely the safest tackle area is between hp and shoulder - around the waist and ribcage. The hip can cause real damage as Joe says.

As for the 50:22 kick- don't like that at all - it is rewarding kicking at expense of handling.

Also not sure about the 22 drop out after "held up". Surely the intent is to encourage attack, not defence?

PG

DanWiley
DanWiley
09 August, 2019 12:35
"I think its a terrible idea, how can a big guy tackle a little guy below the waist"

The game is already balanced too far in one direction, let's even it out a bit. The game will be better and the collisions reduced. win-win.

"I like the sentiment but surely the safest tackle area is between hp and shoulder - around the waist and ribcage. "

I do actually agree with this make it clearly below the armpit and say its your problem if you ride up.

Moggie
Beer Belly
09 August, 2019 12:50
Quote:
via joethefanatic, with thanks!
Defending team awarded a drop-out from own tryline when attacking player is held up over the line. The current law is to award an attacking scrum five metres out.

How can you be held up if you have been tackled at, or below the waist?

Cheers
(Sm63)

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
09 August, 2019 13:00
Quote:
Beer Belly
Quote:
via joethefanatic, with thanks!
Defending team awarded a drop-out from own tryline when attacking player is held up over the line. The current law is to award an attacking scrum five metres out.

How can you be held up if you have been tackled at, or below the waist?

Cheers
(Sm63)

Because you twisted in the tackle and landed on your back, or someone got underneath you. Not massively different from today.

DanWiley
DanWiley
09 August, 2019 13:06
It would be somewhat harder though, but I don't really see a problem. Held up tries that 99% there and aren't given because bodies piled in might be given. To be honest I can see an argument for saying "You've got to allow the tackled player to place the ball when he's over the line just as much as you do when he's no where near the line."

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
09 August, 2019 13:39
A) Stop messing about with the laws. cool smiley It won't work

World Rugby's research of more than 1,500 elite-level matches showed that 76% of head injuries occur in the tackle, with the risk of injury more than quadrupling in a "high-contact" tackle compared to a "low-contact" tackle.

However, an experiment that lowered the tackle height from shoulder height to the level of the tackled player's armpit in the second-tier Championship Cup last season had to be abandoned after concussions increased rather than dropped.

While the number of concussions from upright tackles fell, there was a dramatic increase in the number of players suffering concussions in tackles close to the breakdown.

DanWiley
DanWiley
09 August, 2019 13:50
I'm a little dubious of this study, 36 matches is not a great sample size. I mean how many confirmed concussions where there in that sample?

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
09 August, 2019 14:37
No idea, but if you look at a specific stat and then change a rule in a game as complex as rugby, its hardly likely to result in a simple outcome which mitigates the stat.

I'm sure there is some sort of theorem here - but no harm in trialing i guess.

P G Tips
P G Tips
09 August, 2019 16:25
Quote:
woodpecker
A) Stop messing about with the laws. cool smiley It won't work
.

There is one change the lawmakers could make which would not be so much "messing about with" but "applying common sense to" the laws.

Outlaw the swinging arm tackle. It has only been in vogue a comparatively short time and the game used to manage fine without it.

I remember seeing, about 15 years ago, a letter in the paper from an orthopaedic surgeon who had done a study of all A & E neck injuries over a season - reported from the 2 codes of rugby. His figures showed that league players were 15 times more likely to suffer a serious neck injury than Union players.

He stated no definitive conclusion but hinted that Union must be doing something right in regards to safety at the scrum.

My take was different - since the scrum in league exerts virtually no pressure, the much higher incidence of injury had to be down to tackle technique- the "swinging arm".

As well as higher risk of neck injury, the percussive and whiplash effect of these tackles must contribute to concussion risk.

PG

MESSAGES->author
trikidiki
11 August, 2019 07:56
NEW TACKLE LAWS 2027 RWC

Excuse me, would you mind giving me the ball.

Lee Bideaux
Armchair Fan
14 August, 2019 14:01
Quote:
DanWiley
It's perfectly possible to tackle low safely, though it might take a change in attitude, player size and skills. I recall on TV someone trying to justify not doing it by saying "it's impossible to a great big guy like this to get down that low that quick." Great, let's take the emphasis away from these great big, unagile, skill deprived lumps. If their size becomes a liability we'll have fewer of them on the pitch... <snip>

The antidote to anyone like your pundit is a Courtney Lawes mixtape:

Oof

(although the tackled player in the examples often seems to have already gotten the ball away, so there might be some 'timing' issues (Sm100)



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I like turtles.


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