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usa warrior
Meet Dave Denton
usa warrior (IP Logged)
14 June, 2017 19:37
[m.youtube.com]

Seems a good guy. Hints that were going to be a big abrasive team. Like the sound of that.

Clearly the boys are back training and testing now. Thank goodness the off season is finished!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 15/06/2017 06:15 by usa warrior.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 June, 2017 23:46
Impressive physique for sure.

And as a Zimbabwean not "foreign" either.

 
AJWarriors
Re: Meet Dave Denton
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 00:22
He looks huge in that video and Marco is impressive too but Denton looks a right specimen. I think he's right with next season's team,the pack looks physically massive

 
usa warrior
Re: Meet Dave Denton
usa warrior (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 06:16
Quote:
TeflonTed
Impressive physique for sure.
And as a Zimbabwean not "foreign" either.

Is he classed as Zimbabwean or Scottish?

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 08:30
I don't know - you would have thought that just to make the logic of the issue as straight forward as any that the playing nationality would be considered first?

 
Underdog
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Underdog (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 09:13
As far as we're concerned, he's going to count as a foreign player. Having played for Scotland, he can't be EQP.

Still going to be a very handy player.

 
Blue&GoldWarrior
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Blue&GoldWarrior (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 09:53
Definitely be a target at lineouts considering how much bigger he is that MM! Think we will have a very good pack next year with a lot of depth too!

 
usa warrior
Re: Meet Dave Denton
usa warrior (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 09:56
Really hope that this is the year we see CSW kick on.

 
MSR-Worcester
Re: Meet Dave Denton
MSR-Worcester (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 10:44
Quote:
Underdog
As far as we're concerned, he's going to count as a foreign player. Having played for Scotland, he can't be EQP.
Still going to be a very handy player.

He has played for Scotland so can't be EQP or foreign.

AP rules state you can only have 2 foreign players on the pitch at one time - i.e. EU players, Pacific Islanders and South Africans are covered by Kolpak/Bosman rulings.

"Foreign" players in our squad are:
Joe Taufete'e - not sure?
Michael Dowsett - may have English passport?
Jackson Willison
Bryce Heem

 
usa warrior
Re: Meet Dave Denton
usa warrior (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 10:50
Dowsett is EQP.

Thought I'd read that Willison might be as well??? Could have made that up...

 
AJWarriors
Re: Meet Dave Denton
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 11:59
Willison's wife has an English passport

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
15 June, 2017 18:22
MSR, I believe he could be Scotland qualified by ancestry, but still "foreign" by RFU laws if he was not from a Kolpak/ ACP country.

Clearly he couldn't be EQP having played for another union at level 1or 2.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 09:06
He is Zimbabweian so covered by Kolpak

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 09:48
Quote:
Faithful_City
He is Zimbabweian so covered by Kolpak
JP

I think we'd established that earlier on in the thread!

The issue I was trying to address was the statement by MSR that " he's played for Scotland so can't be EQP or foreign".

That's clearly a misunderstanding, if he were not from a Kolpak or ACP nation he could indeed be foreign by RFU definition.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Meet Dave Denton
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 10:42
Quote:
MSR-Worcester
Quote:
Underdog
As far as we're concerned, he's going to count as a foreign player. Having played for Scotland, he can't be EQP.
Still going to be a very handy player.

He has played for Scotland so can't be EQP or foreign.

AP rules state you can only have 2 foreign players on the pitch at one time - i.e. EU players, Pacific Islanders and South Africans are covered by Kolpak/Bosman rulings.

"Foreign" players in our squad are:
Joe Taufete'e - not sure?
Michael Dowsett - may have English passport?
Jackson Willison
Bryce Heem
Taufete'e has American passport.Possibly a Fijian one too.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 11:31
If he does have Fijian citizenship that would be useful, he would qualify under Kolpak, and not be "foreign".

And while I sit here waiting for Kwikfit to relieve me of a few bob for tyres, I wonder what Brexit will bring re. Kolpak?

Will the RFU run with the status quo, or will all our overseas players suddenly become "foreign"?

I'm going to forecast that they'll leave Kolpak in place, whatever they choose to call it....be chaos otherwise.

 
A38
Re: Meet Dave Denton
A38 (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 11:52
I don't know whether to be troubled or not about the complications of all of this but I suppose I should be because of the implications.

This is where I display my ignorance but it's a quiet day on the Board and anything to generate a little activity if it's only to put me in my place!

As I understand it the issue of EQP/non-EQP is not the same as foreign/not-foreign.

The EQP issue is a financial one in that the more EQP players on the pitch the larger the payment to the Club from central funds. Therefore the penalty is purely to income.

However, if more foreign players on played then the repercussions could include the loss of league points - and potentially relegation.

Hopefully the Club will know exactly into which "box" each and every player falls and there should be no misunderstandings.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 12:37
A38 - you understand exactly correctly.


Have a biscuit.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 14:53
And not forgetting the fact that only 2 foreigners are allowed in the match day squad.

Can I have a biscuit too please?

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 15:21
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2236/5809411453_ede0ecb2b1_b.jpg

Here you are, young man!

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Meet Dave Denton
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 19:12
Quote:
TVM Rides Again
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2236/5809411453_ede0ecb2b1_b.jpg
Here you are, young man!
Have you any of the dark variety? ;-)

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 19:51
Bloody Hell lads....I'm not made of biscuits!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 19:55
He's right though, dark is best.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
IanRed (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 20:54
Is one allowed to say that these days? (Sm157)

 
Patgadd
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Patgadd (IP Logged)
16 June, 2017 21:39
Those of us who prefer dark chocolate are being subsidised by you milk chocolate softies. The cheapest bar of chocolate by far (in terms of costs) is Galaxy - nearly all milk - yet it's sold at a premium price. Smart bit of marketing by Mars way back when.

 
LiveInHope
Re: Meet Dave Denton
LiveInHope (IP Logged)
17 June, 2017 08:00
You can keep your chocolate, give me a bag of pick'-mix any day....especially wiggly worms.
But not this fake Harabo, the real stuff.

 
Underdog
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Underdog (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 08:22
Quote:
MSR-Worcester
Quote:
Underdog
As far as we're concerned, he's going to count as a foreign player. Having played for Scotland, he can't be EQP.
Still going to be a very handy player.

He has played for Scotland so can't be EQP or foreign.

AP rules state you can only have 2 foreign players on the pitch at one time - i.e. EU players, Pacific Islanders and South Africans are covered by Kolpak/Bosman rulings.

"Foreign" players in our squad are:
Joe Taufete'e - not sure?
Michael Dowsett - may have English passport?
Jackson Willison
Bryce Heem
Thanks MSR - I was being too simplistic in my definition of foreign.

Have one of TVM's biscuits.

 
GoofyWarrior
Re: Meet Dave Denton
GoofyWarrior (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 10:52
I'm just peckish. May I have a biscuit ?

 
Patgadd
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Patgadd (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 11:01
OK, but not a dark chocolate one. They are reserved for W4rriorz1980, Ted and me.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 11:17
Is that correct because I think Joe, Jackson and Bryce have been on the pitch at the same time.

Isn't Bryce Tongan?

JP

 
dkexile
Re: Meet Dave Denton
dkexile (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 12:55
Quote:
Faithful_City
Is that correct because I think Joe, Jackson and Bryce have been on the pitch at the same time.
Isn't Bryce Tongan?

JP

Bryce is NZ born, I don't know his ancestry however.

If Jackson does have a British grandparent would make him eqp.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Meet Dave Denton
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 13:52
Quote:
Patgadd
OK, but not a dark chocolate one. They are reserved for W4rriorz1980, Ted and me.
Just don't let them melt on your "gold" trousers Pat!

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Meet Dave Denton
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 13:56
Quote:
IanRed
Is one allowed to say that these days? (Sm157)
PC gone mad,ha ha! What would you suggest?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
IanRed (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 16:10
Hobnobs :-)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 17:26
Quote:
dkexile
Quote:
Faithful_City
Is that correct because I think Joe, Jackson and Bryce have been on the pitch at the same time.
Isn't Bryce Tongan?

JP

Bryce is NZ born, I don't know his ancestry however.

If Jackson does have a British grandparent would make him eqp.

Jackson has been capped for NZ U20's.

Is this not their second level national side? If it is, then he is tied to NZ, doesn't matter if his ancestry would have given potential eq.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Abberley (IP Logged)
18 June, 2017 23:46
Quote:
TeflonTed

Jackson has been capped for NZ U20's.

Is this not their second level national side? If it is, then he is tied to NZ, doesn't matter if his ancestry would have given potential eq.

Martin Johnson played for NZ U21s - didn't stop him captaining England?

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
19 June, 2017 05:59
Rules have changed since then I think

 
dkexile
Re: Meet Dave Denton
dkexile (IP Logged)
19 June, 2017 17:53
Quote:
TeflonTed
Jackson has been capped for NZ U20's.

Is this not their second level national side? If it is, then he is tied to NZ, doesn't matter if his ancestry would have given potential eq.

I think NZ maori was their designated second national side, I'm pretty sure they've changed it at some point.

I could very easily be wrong but there must be a reason if we had 3 'foreign' players on the pitch at once and ancestry could be a work around.

For that matter heem isn't actually tied to NZ is he? As I don't think sevens ties.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 08:45
dk, yes I'm sure you're correct, 7's doesn't tie.

But I wasn't sure which side NZ nominated as their second level, which is why I posed it as a question rather than a statement.

Sometimes these sorts of details are just too hard to Google when it's hot!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 11:34
Sevens does tie..

8.2
A Player who has played for the senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team

of a Union is not eligible to play for the senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National
Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team
of another Union.


[www.worldrugby.org]



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 12:54
Sorry to butt in but aren't we getting mixed up over our Regulation 1 definitions ?

Surely Kolpak and which passport someone is entitled to hold outweigh EQP when it comes to deciding Foreign player status ?

Bryce's dad was born in Samoa which would entitle him to hold dual passports. under Kolpak this would surely make him a non-foreign player.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/06/2017 13:12 by Southstand(again).

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 13:18
RFU Regulation 1 (definitions)

A Non-Foreign Player is a person who, at the point that he is included in the Match Squad:
(a) can prove to the satisfaction of the RFU that he is
entitled to the rights granted under Title IV, Article 45 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU) or under the European Economic Area or of a state with which the European Community has entered into an agreement that includes directly effective provisions conferring equivalent rights of non-discrimination against that stateís nationals within the European Union; Note: A passport of a member state of the European Community will normally be accepted as evidence that a player is a European Player
(b) can prove to the satisfaction of the RFU that pursuant to World Rugby Regulation 8.1 he is eligible to play for the senior fteen-a-side National Representative Team, the next senior fteen-a-side National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team (as de ned in World Rugby regulations) of a Rugby Union in membership of the European Union/European Economic Area; or
(c) has been selected for the England Senior XV, Next Senior XV or U20 XV or Englandís National VII.

 
dkexile
Re: Meet Dave Denton
dkexile (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 13:25
Quote:
Southstand(again)
Sorry to butt in but aren't we getting mixed up over our Regulation 1 definitions ?
Surely Kolpak and which passport someone is entitled to hold outweigh EQP when it comes to deciding Foreign player status ?

Bryce's dad was born in Samoa which would entitle him to hold dual passports. under Kolpak this would surely make him a non-foreign player.

I was just trying to work out how heem, willison and taufete could play at the same time, that explains it nicely so thank you.

The junior all blacks was NZ designated second side for most of the 2000's so under 20's and maori would not be binding, although this seems irrelevant now.

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Meet Dave Denton
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 14:20
When Bryce came to us there was some "paper talk" about him playing for Samoa.
In a Wuss news interview he was quoted as saying that although his dad was born in Samoa his having played sevens for NZ would make this extremely difficult.

I'm pretty sure Bryce (and his agent) are aware of the rules on where he can and can't play. It is, after all their profession.

 
MSR-Worcester
Re: Meet Dave Denton
MSR-Worcester (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 14:57
Quote:
TeflonTed
Quote:
Faithful_City
He is Zimbabweian so covered by Kolpak
JP

I think we'd established that earlier on in the thread!

The issue I was trying to address was the statement by MSR that " he's played for Scotland so can't be EQP or foreign".

That's clearly a misunderstanding, if he were not from a Kolpak or ACP nation he could indeed be foreign by RFU definition.

Clearly Denton has scottish eligibility so is not EQP. The foreign status is a bit more murky. It's not clear whether representive rugby supercedes where a player was born. For what it's worth Denton has a scottish granny and has fulfilled the residency requirement. I believe that the RFU in membership of World Rugby are obliged to comply with the eligibility Regulations so my statement is correct.

Handy link here:

[pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com]

New Zealand's second team is the Junior All Blacks (incidentally not NZL U20s). So Willison is not tied to NZ. Heem has played for NZ 7s so is tied (see regs here: [www.worldrugby.org]). The only loophole is the Olympic sevens loophole which Cooper Vuna and Tim Nanai-Williams both managed.

Also of note from that table is Zimbabwe have no designated second team so Marco Mama is not tied to them having played for the U20s in his youth.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 15:52
Good clearup MSR. Ta.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Meet Dave Denton
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 16:27
https://biscuitencounters.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/004.jpg

Good job I've just been to the shop..... (thanks MSR)

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Meet Dave Denton
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
20 June, 2017 17:32
Quote:
TVM Rides Again
https://biscuitencounters.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/004.jpg
Good job I've just been to the shop..... (thanks MSR)
I'm on a diet.Apart from dark chocolate digestives....

 
MSR-Worcester
Re: Meet Dave Denton
MSR-Worcester (IP Logged)
21 June, 2017 10:48
Haha cheers lads!


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