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jeeves
A Call To Action
jeeves (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 01:03
Hello friends,

I have not posted for a while, for even my bright light of optimism has been somewhat dampened by recent events.

I write with genuine intent. I think we as supporters, in whatever way we support, need to have our voice heard about the future ownership of OUR club.

I have a proposal. It might not create change but it will show that we Worcester supporters are passionate folk that want to be part of the future of our club rather than passive observers of a potential train crash.

So, we try and identify a good day/time and we all meet outside Sixways wearing our colours and carrying our flags (or any witty placards that I am sure could be created by the minds in this forum).

We stand and sing songs and simply make it know that we are gathering to show support for the team and club we have all invested so heavily in over the years.

If enough people turn up we should get press coverage, me and my dog wouldn't, but 1000 or 2000 supporters should do it.

We would be showing the Allen's that to us its not just business, it's our passion, our blood and our hopes.

We would be backing up people like Edward G, someone who wants their words to be heard by those who matter, who knows he might even come too.

It may not change things, but sometimes action is required simply to put on record, in history, that people were not happy and that they were determined to have their voices heard.

Whatever happens, if we get enough of us there, we will put a marker down that Worcester has a passionate core of supporters and that we were all willing to be counted and say that we need to resolve the issue of ownership, for the benefit of rugby not the marketplace.

Obviously if we wake up to the news that Edward G has been successful we can stand down.

JTC

 
jeeves
Re: A Call To Action
jeeves (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 01:35
Hello again,

It has been suggested that if I leave the date vague we may struggle, so how does Sunday 22nd October sound to people, say 1pm for an hour?

C'mon you Warrior Supporters!

JTC

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 07:41
Someone do a poll on who'd like EG to talk to the club again?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 07:47
Why arenít the supporters club canvassing our views and presenting them officially to the club?

The supporters club are our representatives and should be reflecting what we want to see or hear, they should be leading and keeping all supporters informed.

The supporters club are there to do their level best for us, which may fly in the face of WWRFC but they are our reps not the clubs.

J
P

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Fiver (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 08:18
Surely any sort of action would be easiest on a match day, especially if BT Sport are there. As Jeeves suggests, positive action to support the club might work well if a gang could be there when the players arrive to cheer them in, although I've no idea what time that is, it might be a lot earlier than the game though.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: A Call To Action
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 09:13
Quote:
jeeves
Hello friends,
I have not posted for a while, for even my bright light of optimism has been somewhat dampened by recent events.

I write with genuine intent. I think we as supporters, in whatever way we support, need to have our voice heard about the future ownership of OUR club.

I have a proposal. It might not create change but it will show that we Worcester supporters are passionate folk that want to be part of the future of our club rather than passive observers of a potential train crash.

So, we try and identify a good day/time and we all meet outside Sixways wearing our colours and carrying our flags (or any witty placards that I am sure could be created by the minds in this forum).

We stand and sing songs and simply make it know that we are gathering to show support for the team and club we have all invested so heavily in over the years.

If enough people turn up we should get press coverage, me and my dog wouldn't, but 1000 or 2000 supporters should do it.

We would be showing the Allen's that to us its not just business, it's our passion, our blood and our hopes.

We would be backing up people like Edward G, someone who wants their words to be heard by those who matter, who knows he might even come too.

It may not change things, but sometimes action is required simply to put on record, in history, that people were not happy and that they were determined to have their voices heard.

Whatever happens, if we get enough of us there, we will put a marker down that Worcester has a passionate core of supporters and that we were all willing to be counted and say that we need to resolve the issue of ownership, for the benefit of rugby not the marketplace.

Obviously if we wake up to the news that Edward G has been successful we can stand down.

JTC
I'd be enthusiastically up for it! I have abut six flags! Lets get oil barrel to keep us warm, a la picket lines!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 09:50
On match day players come in in dribs and drabs and the TV Team is not in operation then. Unless you inform them that there is to be a demonstration and then they will be there with interviewers

JP

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: A Call To Action
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 09:54
Hang on im unclear as to what this is....

A protest? A demonstration? Supporting the players as they arrive on match day?

Think the idea may be a good one but just unsure exactly was is being put forward.

 
kceWarrior
Re: A Call To Action
kceWarrior (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 10:12
I highly doubt the Allens or anybody looking in for that matter are unaware that we have some very passionate supporters who are interested in the decisions impacting the future of the club.

A protest is in bad taste considering the Allens have carried this club for a number of years.

Some form of public "backing" of EG would also be poor form considering we do not know enough about his bid or that of any other potential investors.

I agree the players could do with "feeling the love" of the fans right now and the fans really need to feel closer to the club. Playing in a half empty stadium won't be helping that.
I think the club/supporters club could do much worse than arranging a day where players and fans can meet and chat. Maybe an open training session followed by a fan engagement session. Or, considering we have a lot of free Saturdays due to Friday matches, some kind of open day where the players show fans around all of the facilities and talk through what they do during the week.

Just a thought. Not sure if others agree it would be of any benefit or interest.

 
Villages12
Re: A Call To Action
Villages12 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:56
What about requesting a supporters meeting so that the Board can advise us exactly what's going on ?

There is too speculation and a lot of missing details, some of which we will never be party to but some statement of facts might take away the wild speculation and inevitable effect on the team as a whole.

I too like the look of the EG offering but we don't know everything about it and when something looks too good to be true it quite often is !

Whilst I don't agree with all the doom and gloom around at the moment it's hard to see that the For Sale sign will be up in the long-term. If we haven't won a game by the start of next year the value of the club would be significantly less so I don't see the current owners waiting too long whatever they've said publicly.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: A Call To Action
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 14:06
Quote:
jeeves


We would be showing the Allen's that to us its not just business, it's our passion, our blood and our hopes.


I know that this is not something people are in the mood to hear - but what the hell I will give it a try anyway and await my flaming.

I think the Allen's realise it isn't just a business. NO ONE invests in a rugby club actually expecting to make money - and anyone who does would not have the nous to acquire sufficient money.

Since Edward G has answered some of your questions, all of a sudden he is the second coming and the Allen's are turning into some villains from a Victorian melodrama - you'd think they didn't even like rugby let alone the club - and were stopping Edward from achieving his place at the top table out of spite towards the fan base.

If everyone just calmed down a moment and thought about it - if it wasn't something they loved (and I PROMISE you they didn't get into this expecting a return. NO ONE does - not really) - why did they do it if they don't actually love it?

I can see the attraction of the Edward Griffiths thing - I can. His track record is ace.

HOWEVER - i think people are wilfully ignoring the inconvenient truth that we are now borderline DEMANDING that the Allen's (in all probability) take a multi-million pound bath* for no better reason than we said so....on top of the money they have lost to the club already


Maybe the portrayal of saying its just a business to them makes it easier to square that particular circle.

I just think people have started being awfully unfair to people who have hurled MILLIONS at the club historically - probably without hope of seeing much of it again.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 14:19

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 14:37
Villages12- Lets be clear Saracens lost a money (£40m plus) to get to the Top, Ed wasn't Saracens owner, he was there CEO. The owner is the one who has to stump up the cheques and we dont even kow who Ed's backer is, is he a fan, could he get bored, who knows?!

For whatever reason Ed is clearly not the right buyer or the Board would clearly consider his offer. The Board are professional enough to keep their reasoning confidential whilst other discussions are probably underway.

Also I think that Bolsover (Chairman) has been very clear about what the club is doing (below...from Worcester news)

ďIt isnít a matter of money, which sounds strange but it is not. They will continue to fund this club until they can find the right way to move it on.

ďWhat is important is the commitment they then give to this club. We will not sell without a commitment to stay in the Premiership and put so much into rugby.Ē

ď...we are one of the only clubs that has absolutely no debt on its books,Ē

ďEvery stand is paid for. All of the grounds are paid for, we have put a considerable amount of money into building up the amateur clubís facilities in the past two years and we now have the freeholds.

[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

 
jeeves
Re: A Call To Action
jeeves (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 14:40
All very good points.

I think my initial idea was to show support for the club and players and certainly was not a protest.

My comments that TVM refers to were more about the fact that they feel there are better offers than EG's offer and will wait (as we understand it from limited information).

I certainly wouldn't want to seem ungrateful to the Allen's but in all fairness the communication is appalling. I invest only a small amount to the club but to me it's a significant cost each year, so we all have stake.

Not involving supporters because what is being discussed is 'business' is the point I was making when I say it's not just about business, the idea of getting together was a visible reminder of this.

On reflection, I agree with TVM and KCE on this and fear that getting together may look more protesty and ungrateful.

The other suggestion of asking for clarity via the supporters club is more practicable and probably less contentious.

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 15:37
Jeeves- You're wrong about communication- the fact the club has come out openly and said they are for sale is more then other clubs have ever done. (Sale, LI, Gloucester, Newcastle, Bath)

The club realizes that this could cause some issues for fans and players alike but did it as they only want to find the right buyer to become a Top 4 side. The club aren't hiding anything and clearly doesn't have any financial troubles- or they would have bank debt, or get bank debt on the stadium or P-share, as other clubs do.

The owners and Board are fans, like everyone on here, they don't invest for financial gains, or as some vanity project. Any lack of information relating to a sale is clearly due to confidentiality agreements that are in place. That said, Bolsover has been 100% clear on the clubs view.

On Ed's deal I'm sure there are issues, for one he gets 51% of the club for what, is he committing his money, does he have billionaires willing to lose over £5m a year like at Saracens!

I'm sure there are lots of reasons that his deal isn't satisfactory, if it was a great deal the Board and owners would have obviously taken it with open hands rather then continuing to fund the club!

 
FlipFlop
Re: A Call To Action
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 16:43
Quote:
Guerrier
if it was a great deal the Board and owners would have obviously taken it with open hands rather then continuing to fund the club!

Maybe it was because it was the first offer? The paper talk appears to suggest that as a result The Allens "would go to market" re the value of the Freehold. Syrange that this hadn't been done, before the outside world got a whiff of For Sale. Might have reasonable expected their Advisors to have got that fundamental matter cleared if the Freehold is now the sticking point, wouldn't you?

I'm sure they are good people and £16m of anyones money is not to be sniffed at. But the above seems to have been a pretty major oversight on the one aspect of their planned sale, if in fact they have needed to go to market on valuation.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:04
Guerrier, I think you're missing a point when it comes to deals.

Rarely does any deal represent a "great" deal for either side. After the negotiation is over, clearly any deal is "acceptable" to both sides, otherwise there isn't a deal.

Both sides will usually then claim it's a "great" deal, because there are egos involved.

But without being party to the numbers, all this is useless speculation. I have no idea what either side proposes to do with the various assets, on the one hand we have assurances that the future of rugby is safe, i.e. Prem. shares won't be sold, the rugby operation will remain in Worcester, only suitable offers (what does that mean?) will be accepted etc.

On the other hand we have Ed with a very open communication style telling us he has the finance in place and reminding us that he's done it all before at Sarries, which is undeniable. Clearly the finance is an issue, as in, sellers would like more, buyers would prefer less, but we also have Mr Bolsover telling us it's not about the money!l

Well, if it isn't, I'd like to hear more from the current owners as to what it is about.

Finally, like others, I'm vaguely interested in where your opinions are formed, some of them are recycled public knowledge, fair enough, we all read what we can and comment according to our opinions, others are written with a level of assurance that implies inside knowledge.

Care to comment?

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:13
FlipFlop- The club hasn't said that the issue was the freehold, Ed has. I can assure you the value of the freehold will not be the sticking point, but the commitment of the buyer to keep funding and investing in the club going forward.

The club has make it clear that the sale is not about the money. You don't invest £16m in rugby in 3 years if you want to make money.

I know the owners/Board would give the club away for free if they felt that had the perfect party, with the right committed to invest in the club going forward.

 
Villages12
Re: A Call To Action
Villages12 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:13
Guerrier, I'm not at all sure why your post is aimed at me ? I don't believe I said anything to upset anyone or doubt the finances etc. I'm well aware of the fact that people backing rugby clubs need deep pockets and a love of the game.

I was merely trying to get clarity as I'm not a believer in a "Call to Action".

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:14
TVM, I do believe that the Allenís refused to take on and invest in the Warriors until the were granted Freehold from WRFC, they then SOLD the land to LLoyds including the freehold. This was due to the agreement with WRFC in respect of clubhouse and maintenance of pitches I think.

They are business men and no matter they may like rugby, they will not lose too much. I will guess that the sale of the club will still bring in a lot of money. Maybe not replace all they spent.

However if they retain the freehold, which is what they want to do, then at some stage it will be worth a great deal of money.

I hope I am wrong but I fear not.

Most businessmen canít draw a straight line with a ruler, but are great at telling you that is what a straight line should look l9ke.

JP

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:18
Villages12- My apologies, wasn't trying to target you, was just trying to explain why, maybe the owner "communication is appalling"

 
Villages12
Re: A Call To Action
Villages12 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:18
Wow, maybe my wish has come true !?

An evening with Gus Mackay has just been announced on 31st October.

Should be an interesting one !!

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:25
JP- Luckily you're wrong as the freehold was only sorted out in the last 2 years, when the new Wanderers clubhouse was built- the David lloyd has been there for a lot longer- 5 years I'd guess. The current funders have been around for even longer, so well before the freehold was sorted..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2017 17:54 by Guerrier.

 
jeeves
Re: A Call To Action
jeeves (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:46
A reliable source tells me that word of this thread got back to HQ and decisive action was taken following the advice contained in the thread (Sm161)

Well done Villages12 and KCE for your great ideas which have now been adopted.

Stand down.

(Sm100)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Fiver (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 17:56
It's interesting that in football every year there'll be at least one club where the fans set up picket lines holding up banners to get the owners out. It is true that those owners also want success and have spent a lot of their fortune on the club.

However, every owner knows and understands what happens if you get it wrong. Fans want success and frankly the directors financial dealings don't matter a jot.

The fact is that the Allens haven't delivered success. No debt, owns the freehold, blah blah blah. Fans want success. You reap what you sew, and I don't believe a word suggesting the Allens would simply give the club away to the right person. Well, not the freehold anyway.

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 18:09
Fiver- You're right the owners haven't got it right at Worcester, they have kept Worcester as a Premiership funded club but it has not kicked on, they get the message, it's a key reason why they are selling, so that someone, with new ideas and expertise, can give it a go.

Only time will tell if they stick to their "right person" line, I'm confident they will.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 19:29
Quote:
TeflonTed
Guerrier, .....................
Finally, like others, I'm vaguely interested in where your opinions are formed, some of them are recycled public knowledge, fair enough, we all read what we can and comment according to our opinions, others are written with a level of assurance that implies inside knowledge.

Care to comment?

??

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:00
TeflonTed- My opinions are based on facts and first hand knowledge. Iíve followed the key issues on this Board for years and rarely write but on this topic I felt I should add some context. Whatís written on here can indirectly impact the club in a negative way and that not something any of us want, especially with 6 losses out of 6!
G

 
shirelad
Re: A Call To Action
shirelad (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:06
Guerrier,
Could I ask when the club is sold where will the money be going?. Surely not back into the Allen's bank accounts? You make the Allens sound so altruistic that any money coming from a sale will surely be ploughed back into making Worcester a rugby force to be reckoned with?
The freehold and its financial implications is what's important to the Allens first and foremost. This is where they will recoup and improve on their investment.
As long as Worcester can scrape by on a limited budget in our current league rugby is a poor second to what the freehold could deliver.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:19
Guerrier.

You seem to speak from within? Excuse my ignorance.

Who are you? (In the nicest possible way)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Drutz (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:26
Quote:
shirelad
Guerrier,
Could I ask when the club is sold where will the money be going?. Surely not back into the Allen's bank accounts? You make the Allens sound so altruistic that any money coming from a sale will surely be ploughed back into making Worcester a rugby force to be reckoned with?
The freehold and its financial implications is what's important to the Allens first and foremost. This is where they will recoup and improve on their investment.
As long as Worcester can scrape by on a limited budget in our current league rugby is a poor second to what the freehold could deliver.

Just a devil's advocate here. What makes you think that the new owners under E.G. are in it for?
He states they want the freehold as part of the deal why do you think that will not scrape by on a limited budget as well. They have given no promises either?



Pulling the boots on for one more year

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: A Call To Action
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:29
Guerrier - french for 'Warrior'

Greg Allen's bilingual.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:33
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Guerrier - french for 'Warrior'
Greg Allen's bilingual.

So are a lot of us.....and I know at least one regular poster who speaks about 73 languages......well maybe I'm exaggerating a little.

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:35
Shireland- Firstly the club won't sell for any substantial money as it's massively loss making, even with the freehold, as the club has said it's the future financial commitment of a buyer they are interested. If the buyer has to maintain rugby long-term as part of the agreement this devalues the land as the land will have to be used for rugby.

In the same way I dont believe that Sixways Holding paid a penny to take the club over from Cecil.

The Allen's don't own the club and never have, Sixways Holding does, which is "a non-profit entity" (per the clubs past press releases), therefore even if some money was paid this money could only go to charitable causes, or go back into the club, this is why the money offered isn't too relevant as they is no personal gain to be make, that's the legal set-up!

Cecil never looked to make a penny ever, Sixways Holding are the same.

 
shirelad
Re: A Call To Action
shirelad (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:36
Because Drutz that's clearly not what happened at Saracens is it? Do you really think Sarries have been scraping by on a limited budget - legally or otherwise?

 
Patgadd
Re: A Call To Action
Patgadd (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:37
Quote:
TeflonTed
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Guerrier - french for 'Warrior'
Greg Allen's bilingual.

So are a lot of us.....and I know at least one regular poster who speaks about 73 languages......well maybe I'm exaggerating a little.

Ah Ted, I've told you a million times not to exaggerate! If you're thinking of Schneiderlein, I happen to know he only speaks 71 languages.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:38
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Guerrier - french for 'Warrior'
Greg Allen's bilingual.


So what is your interest in this conversation?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:40
Ps....Saucie, on the serious point of your post, if Guerrier were indeed to be a member of the current board, it would, would it not, be better if he chose to be as open as Edward G.

On verra bien, n'est-ce pas?

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: A Call To Action
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:41
Quote:
TeflonTed
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Guerrier - french for 'Warrior'
Greg Allen's bilingual.

So are a lot of us.....and I know at least one regular poster who speaks about 73 languages......well maybe I'm exaggerating a little.

I know - just playing really....

Knightstempler, isnt that pretty obvious?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:43
Guerrier, now your talking fancifully, what is said 0n here affects the club, do me a favour.

So if we kick up on here to get Griffiths in it can directly accept the clubís decision making - B ULLSH1T!

And trying to embarrass us with this 6 out of 6 losses, really.

You follow all the key issues on here, well in that case you are ill informed to make decisions, this is just a supporters forum and strangely you now all the confidence of someone who knows a lot more than anyone else on here telling us we are wrong or have misplaced confidence in Mr Griffiths.

What do you think you know, and where did you get that info from, more importantly, who are you?

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:49
Quote:
Faithful_City
Guerrier, now your talking fancifully, what is said 0n here affects the club, do me a favour.
So if we kick up on here to get Griffiths in it can directly accept the clubís decision making - B ULLSH1T!

And trying to embarrass us with this 6 out of 6 losses, really.

You follow all the key issues on here, well in that case you are ill informed to make decisions, this is just a supporters forum and strangely you now all the confidence of someone who knows a lot more than anyone else on here telling us we are wrong or have misplaced confidence in Mr Griffiths.

What do you think you know, and where did you get that info from, more importantly, who are you?

JP

So who are you?

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:53
I know it sounds fanciful but Ed's post on here ended up in Worcester News. I'm a supporter, like the rest of us and have been for over a decade! I'm very optimistic about the future of Worcester Warriors and look forward to the club finally being a Top 6 side smiling smiley
Anyway I've said my peace, only time will tell if I'm proven right.

 
shirelad
Re: A Call To Action
shirelad (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 20:53
So Guerrier and just so to be sure : if the club is sold , NONE of the money will be going back to the Allens ?
You mention the concerns around the "future financial commitment of a buyer . " EG has already said he will be with the club for the rest of his working days.
If the cash for a sale was go back into the club just where is the stumbling block ? It sounds as if you might be able to answer this. As above - who are you?

 
Guerrier
Re: A Call To Action
Guerrier (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 21:16
The money didnít come from the Allens it 100% canít therefore go back to them or any person, as the structure is non-for-profit.

If there are other issues with Edís deal Iím sure there are confidentiallity agreements in place which mean the club wonít say much, plus frankly it wouldnt be professional or prudent too, especially when other parties are also interested

Iím a supporter, just a bit more knowledge then some I prefer to keep anonymous- isnít that the point on these forums.

Iím sure weíll all learn more at the supporters evening coming up.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Drutz (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 21:37
Quote:
shirelad
Because Drutz that's clearly not what happened at Saracens is it? Do you really think Sarries have been scraping by on a limited budget - legally or otherwise?

No but they also lose millions of pounds a year E.G. has claimed Worcester losses will be around 500k a year. Now what's the quickest way to reduce losses....stop investment and consolidate.

As I said playing devil's advocate no agenda i just think calling in doubt one parties motives and not anothers seems odd without the facts from both sides.



Pulling the boots on for one more year

 
Whispering_Death
Re: A Call To Action
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 21:39
Let's hope Gus is more realistic. We will never be a top six side, certainly not consistently. The last fifteen years have proved that.

Certainly livened up the board though this week.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 21:41
Anonymity is fine when discussing choice of 10's, whether or not Joe Carlisle was the next messiah, bar queues, or the dreaded Pears.

It starts to become a problem when a relatively unknown poster suddenly pops up with extremely lucid and well informed comments which appear to refer to details which "just another supporter" is unlikely to be a party to.

And clearly seeks to promote a certain viewpoint, i.e. that the EG consortium offer is unsuitable, although as Mr Bolsover says, it's not about the money.

If Guerrier is indeed a high level insider, my view is that he should either refrain from further comment, or be as up-front as EG and let us know who he is.

Anonymity can be abused!

 
jeeves
Re: A Call To Action
jeeves (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 21:54
To be fair to Guerrier they are not saying anything that hasnít been reported somewhere.

I think people are getting confused with the confidence they have in the board and think only someone in the know could be that confident.

I think thatís a demonstration of how the communication is poor (although Guerrier will disagree) if more people heard what Guerrier was saying the situation would seem less one sided.

I have learnt new things from the discussion, but many supporters are still in the dark, just look at other threads, I donít mean breaking confidentiality but more clarity may help.

The supporters evening hopefully will reveal more.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 22:00
Kn9ghtstemplar, if you donít know the vast majority on here know who I am. I d0nít hide behind an unknown name, I am more than happy for anyone and everyone to know me.

To help you

My name is John Phillips, I setup and started this forum, I setup and started the Worcester Warriors Supporters Club, I played for Worcester 1971 to 1976 whilst in the Army. Posted away 1976.

I sit in the West Stand seat 60, I will be there on Saturday as I am at every game. I will be in the King Charles before the game and if you fancy a pint come down and join us.

Now the man who believes we all want to be annon as afterall this is a secret forum, Mr Guerrier, who are you.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 22:05
There needs to be honesty and transparency in all of this. We are all supporters whichever corner, viewpoint or stance one wants to take.

Forgetting elitism or money whoever stumps it up we should all be working towards the future and best intetest of Worcester rugby at Sixways. That should be the common goal. If money is more than a motivator than Worcester rugby then they need to leave the equation whoever they are.

 
Whispering_Death
Re: A Call To Action
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 22:15
It's a lot easier to hide behind a name on here isn't it. I'm a nobody on here so doesn't matter who I actually am but if you come on here as someone connected and with a clear agenda you're just not going to get the respect that you may or may not deserve. Some may not agree with EG direct approach on here but I think he won everyone's respect for what certainly seemed an honest and open communication. Same with Gus.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 22:28
Quote:
Jeeves

To be fair to Guerrier they are not saying anything that hasnít been reported somewhere.


Donít you mean he or is this snapper Guerrier representing the club?

At JOíTís open meeting with forum members where we all introduced ourselves -no anonymity there, I do not recall meeting Jeeves or Guerrier.

However not regular poster so do not submit much in supporting the club or other members on here. Obviously donít have to be a poster to be part of OUR community but it does help us to respond to your posts on such an important and emotive subject like the whole future of OUR club.

JP

 
jeeves
Re: A Call To Action
jeeves (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 22:49
Quote:
Faithful_City
Quote:
Jeeves

To be fair to Guerrier they are not saying anything that hasnít been reported somewhere.


Donít you mean he or is this snapper Guerrier representing the club?

At JOíTís open meeting with forum members where we all introduced ourselves -no anonymity there, I do not recall meeting Jeeves or Guerrier.

However not regular poster so do not submit much in supporting the club or other members on here. Obviously donít have to be a poster to be part of OUR community but it does help us to respond to your posts on such an important and emotive subject like the whole future of OUR club.

JP

I was at the event and introduced myself as Jeeves.

Look at the thread about the event and you will see me commenting along with others.

I also started one of the most popular threads ĎHappy Daysí years ago which had over 100 positive responses, so I do contribute. I donít post unless I have something to say, but my lack of regular posts doesnít diminish my support of the club.

I use the term Ďtheyí as we do not know if they are male or female and some of the most knowledgeable posters on here are female.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 22:51
Accepted Jeeves, then we have met.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 06:16
Quote:
Faithful_City
Kn9ghtstemplar, if you donít know the vast majority on here know who I am. I d0nít hide behind an unknown name, I am more than happy for anyone and everyone to know me.
To help you

JP

I know who you are that wasnt my aim to you to tell me in quoting you!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 07:13
Donít understand, you quoted me and asked, ďso who are you?Ē

Have I misunderstood?

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 08:20
Quote:
Faithful_City
Donít understand, you quoted me and asked, ďso who are you?Ē
Have I misunderstood?

JP

Yes I was backing up your 'so who are you!'

 
centrethere
Re: A Call To Action
centrethere (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 08:35
Sixways Holding Ltd may well be not-for-profit. Perhaps the foundation document (available for £4 here - [www.jerseyfsc.org]) might shed more light on it. But I would still speculate that the shareholders (mainly the Allens) wish to offload theirs, and any new investment could be paid to the directors or shareholders as dividends (indirectly) covering the previous investment (loss) of 16m. This is what EG offered, but probably had no say to this money disappearing before he got he got control of the club. On top of this is the near £10m market value, which the club puts itself at and is looking for an investor to cover this as well.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:12
Put it down to ĎcommasĒ or should that be brain coma.

JP(Sm128)

 
Southstand(again)
Re: A Call To Action
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:12
I'm on so many drugs at the moment I'd, be quite grateful if someone would occasionally remind me who I am.

This coming on top of the shock of discovering that Gibbo is now actually visiting gyms. (Sm14)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:13
No!!! You must have the wrong man...

 
Patgadd
Re: A Call To Action
Patgadd (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:15
Quote:
shirelad
So Guerrier and just so to be sure : if the club is sold , NONE of the money will be going back to the Allens ?
You mention the concerns around the "future financial commitment of a buyer . " EG has already said he will be with the club for the rest of his working days.
If the cash for a sale was go back into the club just where is the stumbling block ? It sounds as if you might be able to answer this. As above - who are you?

As I have said on another thread, the Allens will make nothing out of whatever deal is made.

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: A Call To Action
ROLLO (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:25
I also posted about not hiding behind posting names on this matter and gave mine as I have done once before and also at the J O'T meeting. If you see my car reg you will know who I am anyway.
My suspicion is that Gurrier is a well placed individual in the club, his input is meant as a balance and whilst EG has gone public I can understand why Gurrier may feel he cannot. I think his posts are of value.
As I said previously we will all need to be patient.
Lets hope that we can kick-start our season tomorrow, unfortunately I am in London for the week-end so if we do win I am quite prepared for a petition to keep me away from more games.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:37
Rollo, if I see you in Soho I won't mention which dodgy club I saw you leaving. My excuse is that Ted Jnr#1 and family live smack bang in the middle of that most interesting little village, and grand-parental duties see us there this weekend as it happens.

 
centrethere
Re: A Call To Action
centrethere (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:37
Pat,
So a market value of £9.7m and a bid by EG of £16m not taken up - it does not add up.

Still suggest it that difference of how much the shareholders wish to take out, before handing over control. I think the answer is there - sale price of £9.7m.

And if costs are to take 2 years to get down to £0.5m / year (from losing what £16m over the last 3 seasons), it suggests that £4-6m would be needed in the first two years to cover costs including new debt to be serviced at 2 years.

So EG money all gone in 2 years and the club up for sale again. This is not the financial stability that B. Bolsover has talked about, hence not accepting the bid.

All pure speculation of course.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 09:51
The sad thing is that the historical evidence of Rugby Clubs being at best short changed at worst virtually destroyed by supposed generous benefactors/investors/owners does not give confidence in any of them.

The Allenís have been incredibly generous to us all, they most definitely rebuilt and continue to support our academy and youth programs. We have one of the best surfaces in the Premiership. They have brought in the necessary personnel to keep us above the trapdoor last season - Gold and Griffiths. They have also been let down by others Ryan..

However there is always doubt that it is not all largesse but calculated long term profit making.

All we desire is a winning team playing in great facilities, so we can be a little one eyed and selfish.

Only time will tell, my wish and hope is that the rugby wins. I personally do not care who it is just that they are honest and their aim is for a long term successful premiership rugby club here at Sixways.

JP

 
gmem
Re: A Call To Action
Garym (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 10:23
Quote:
centrethere
Pat,
So a market value of £9.7m and a bid by EG of £16m not taken up - it does not add up.

Still suggest it that difference of how much the shareholders wish to take out, before handing over control. I think the answer is there - sale price of £9.7m.

And if costs are to take 2 years to get down to £0.5m / year (from losing what £16m over the last 3 seasons), it suggests that £4-6m would be needed in the first two years to cover costs including new debt to be serviced at 2 years.

So EG money all gone in 2 years and the club up for sale again. This is not the financial stability that B. Bolsover has talked about, hence not accepting the bid.

All pure speculation of course.

I thought the market value was closer to £27m based on the "P" shares, TV revenue and freehold of the assets, plus other bits that I can't remember

 
centrethere
Re: A Call To Action
centrethere (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:35
Just quoting the telegraph here re. £9.7m
[www.telegraph.co.uk]

 
FlipFlop
Re: A Call To Action
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:47
Sixways Holding Ltd may well be not-for-profit.

All this means is that any profits generated must be reinvested in the organisation for the organisation to hold on to any tax or reporting benefits that registering as this kind of organisation may hold, as compared to a fully blown Limited Company.

I seem to recall on a tour of HQ that RFU was deemed a similar not for profit org, but i did the tour several years ago, and this may have changed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/10/2017 14:27 by FlipFlop.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: A Call To Action
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:48
Quote:
Faithful_City
The sad thing is that the historical evidence of Rugby Clubs being at best short changed at worst virtually destroyed by supposed generous benefactors/investors/owners does not give confidence in any of them.
The Allenís have been incredibly generous to us all, they most definitely rebuilt and continue to support our academy and youth programs. We have one of the best surfaces in the Premiership. They have brought in the necessary personnel to keep us above the trapdoor last season - Gold and Griffiths. They have also been let down by others Ryan..

However there is always doubt that it is not all largesse but calculated long term profit making.

All we desire is a winning team playing in great facilities, so we can be a little one eyed and selfish.

Only time will tell, my wish and hope is that the rugby wins. I personally do not care who it is just that they are honest and their aim is for a long term successful premiership rugby club here at Sixways.

JP

Thatís it in a nutshell.

Well put JP


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