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Patgadd
Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 22:27
Here's my take on the situation - only my opinion of course. Let's start with a basic premise. Bill Bolsover told us that when the Allens rejected EG's bid, money had nothing to do with it. I can think of no reason why he should be lying to us.

That being so, I can't help thinking along these lines:

Why, then, was the bid rejected? Surely it can only have been that they didn't think it was in the best interest of the club that somebody could own 51% without paying a penny. After all, we know that Greg Allen will make nothing whoever buys the club. An analogy that comes to mind is this: suppose you owned a horse that you were particularly fond of, but for whatever reason you had to sell it. Someone comes along and offers you a fair price, but says that he is acting on behalf of a third party. That party will pay for the horse, but the man who made the offer will own 51% of it. If you don't care what happens to the animal, you'll accept. If on the other hand you care very much, you won't like the idea at all, and will reject the offer.

This leads me - rightly or wrongly - to believe that Greg has the club's interest at heart, and will only sell to the right buyer. If that is so, then I believe that he won't sell out to the SRU or anybody else unless he honestly believes it's in the club's best interest. Now there is quite a lot of conjecture in this, and certainly the lack of communication is a worry, but until we hear to the contrary I'll wait and see.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 22:35
Or the investment he wanted has come in and he doesn’t want to sell a controlling percentage anymore as he sees another route forward.

 
Eastrrr Bunny
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Eastrrr Bunny (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 05:04
Or they want to retain ownership of the land and sell the club only

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who is going to buy us?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 06:20
The freehold’s the only decent Asset. Without that, you’re just buying a money pit. Imagine buying a house and the land agent building right in your back garden because the garden wasn’t for Sale when you bought the house?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Fiver (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 06:29
Who says EG wasn't putting in any money himself? Also, Greg might not personally make any money from the sale as the club is owned by a trust fund. If the right person offered £10, and someone else came in with £100 million, then I think I know what would happen.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 06:32
Or enough money wasnt offered for the freehold

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 07:14
Or there really was a clash of personalities. I’ve heard from several people that Allen junior isn’t exactly your pleasant humble type. Let’s not pretend this doesn’t happen in business.

If they care so much how come the club has continued to fail gloriously since they came in. How come our recruitment over the last few years has been rubbish despite quite clearly having one of the worst squads. How come our DOR this year was always likely to be short term then we bring in a 70 year old as cover. How come they invested 19 million in paying off debts to benefit themselves, to make a sale easier, rather than spending even just a fraction of this on players. And how come the communication from them and the club has been pretty much non existent. Surely if they cared they would have some empathy with us supporters in this situation and at least show they recognise us.

Sorry, but I don’t buy it.

 
A38
Re: Who is going to buy us?
A38 (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 07:37
The problem with an information void is that voids get filled with all sorts of speculation. We live in an age where instant information is expected and we all feed off scraps of gossip, leaks fed to newspapers and "fake news".

I suspect that the situation at Sixways is in many ways a classic PR dilemma. Detailed negotiations may well be under way, perhaps with several different parties, and / or due diligence investigations are in hand. No final agreement has been made, no deal yet done and some or all of the interested parties might be frightened off by the prospect of a too early revelation.

From a PR point of view it would have all been a great deal better if all of this could have been done behind a confidentiality curtain with none of us being aware of anything going on. But perhaps the Gloucester comment scotched that? (Oops, unfortunate verb!)

So what do the PR people advise? How much should be said at what may be an early stage? The best advice is probably to say as little as possible; the lawyers might say the same, don't know.

Better to risk supporter grumbling than jeopardise a deal by too early an information leak?

After all, it might be thought, once a deal is signed off supporters will just go back to grumbling about the rugby and the world gets on with it.

I have been as guilty as anyone about speculating what is going on behind closed doors. But the best advice for us is, I am afraid, to continue to be patient. I can't see the whole saga going on for much longer.

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 07:49
Agreed

 
Eternal optimist
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Eternal optimist (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 07:59
BillBolsover may have the club at heart, but just how much of a say will he have in all this. Not a lot I’d say and therefore down to the Allens. In which case are they looking to cut and run. In my humble opinion probably yes. Glass is now half empty.

 
backrow
Re: Who is going to buy us?
backrow (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 08:22
I don't know it's about who is going to buy us ,it is why is any one going to buy us and what to do with the Warriors name ,Sixways ground is the money . (Sm154)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 08:30
Which is why WRFC always wanted to retain the freehold to ensure the land was only ever used for rugby.

By one means or another the Allens wrestled it from them. It was not just the very small amount of money that was exchanged.

The Allen’s refused to invest in the club until they had been given the freehold. I wonder why?

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 08:32
Its all about the freehold imho

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 08:52
Quote:
Faithful_City

The Allen’s refused to invest in the club until they had been given the freehold. I wonder why?

JP

Actually JP, the Allens invested in the club a long time ago. Sixways Holdings only acquired the freehold within the last two years.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 09:03
Yes they had put in several £1,000's but there major investment came once there had been movement within WRFC to give a very long Lease(I think it was 250yrs) the freehold was then exchanged later after further negotiations.

JP

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 09:05
I wasn't aware of that. Mancunians 1, scousers nil.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Who is going to buy us?
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 09:39
Quote:
Faithful_City
Yes they had put in several £1,000's but there major investment came once there had been movement within WRFC to give a very long Lease(I think it was 250yrs) the freehold was then exchanged later after further negotiations.
JP

'Further negotiations'.... essentially wasnt this paying for WRFCs brand new very nice clubhouse that mustve cost well into 7 figures?

Shows how much they wanted the freehold. It'll (hopefully) all come out in the wash and with it hopefully we'll get the reasons as to why DR left too as a bonus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2017 09:39 by WorcesterSauce.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 09:42
So are we now saying that WRFC have been hard done by? Everyone I’ve spoken to, who represent them, are pretty pleased with arrangement.

DR!! Really, again?? He had a better offer. That’s been done to death.

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 10:44
I still don't believe that the board (which, remember, includes one Chris Pennell) wants anything but the best for the club. We shall see.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Drutz (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 10:52
Without going into to much detail all WRFC wanted was to secure the future of a rugby in Worcester for all who wish to play.
An offer was made to fund the building a new clubhouse for us which would allow us to continue to offer rugby to people in Worcester at the grassroots level.
As a club we took it as it also allowed to once again become WRFC and regain our history and control of our own future with the new facilities.
Did we get the full value of freehold? Probably not but we are happy to be once again masters of our own club and any who have been to the new clubhouse will tell you its got the feel of a good clubhouse again.
I would say as others have the lack of information on the bids is frustrating but patience us required. No major deal wants all the information in the public domain and in the next month you may see some movement on information as any deals progress.
Also Worcester Sauce not going into prices but no it was not into 7 figures for the new clubhouse, but I'm glad you think the clubhouse looks like it had that much spent on it as it shows we have done a great job.



Pulling the boots on for one more year

 
PMB
Re: Who is going to buy us?
PMB (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 10:59
All down to money in my opinion with the freehold being the lynch pin to any future deal. And yes WRFC are happy with the Westons Fields set up in exchange for the freehold with Trading getting a very good deal (less than £2m?).

Being cynical, the land value would put a big dent in the alleged £16m losses over the last three years, sadly with the lack of information forthcoming from the powers that be we will only know when "it" is a done deal.

I can also see Trading becoming a little irritated with cheaper parking, food and drink being available across the road on Warrior match days.

Sadly it is what it is and I for one feel sad with the way things have gone, a long way away from CDs' original dream and a disappointing end to a journey, that for me, started in Div 4 West.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Who is going to buy us?
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 12:43
Really surprised at that Drutz it is a brilliant facility. Are WRFC not one of the wealthiest and stable amateur clubs in the country now then? A brand new club house and a good chunk of cash for the freehold?

Certainly don't think they've been hard done by.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Drutz (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 12:47
Sorry Worcester Sauce all we got was the money for the clubhouse build no wedge of cash so hardly flush. We are debt free though and own all of our facilities which a lot if clubs can't say at our level.



Pulling the boots on for one more year

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 12:59
The Allen’s have done very well out of the deal so far.

If it becomes housing development land it will be worth many £millions. Then sell the land and move the Rugby over the road somewhere jointly with WCFC.

JP

 
centrethere
Re: Who is going to buy us?
centrethere (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 13:42
I like the sign pointing back through the WRFC tunnel to the Sixways side that says: Pitches 5-15.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who is going to buy us?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 13:51
In terms of investment, bankrolling club losses since Allen’s took over must have been more than “several thousands” before and since Freehold purchase was concluded? They wrote off £20mill last season. Sure they’re wealthy, but £20 mill of debt is not a small sum.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Abberley (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 14:09
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Certainly don't think they've been hard done by.

To judge that you might want to compare what WRFC had before the professional era

• Multiple pitches on a single integrated site
• Floodlights & covered stand
• Clubhouse with two domestic flats for full-time steward and groundsman
• Sponsorship & support from local businesses

with what they have now:

• Multiple pitches on a site split by a main road and a canal
• Floodlights (but no stand)
• Clubhouse (but no living accommodation)
• Competition from neighbours Warriors for sponsorship etc.

To that must be added the intangibles such as the sacrifice of the players who suddenly found themselves without teams to play for (plus the many mini-juniors who had no senior teams to progress to after U17s).

I'm sure Cecil was genuine with his original vision but, for whatever reason, it has not worked out to anyone's advantage.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 14:24
Flip-flop I think you missed the point of Freehold transfer and funds invested.

The vast vast majority of investment has come post transfer of freehold. They may have invested several millions since but they now own 10’s of millions of prime real estate.

If I invest £20million and get back £23million that is a massive 15% growth better than any bank.

If we go down and stay down for 4/5 seasons by which time Worcester expansion has turned it all into housing land it becomes worth £45/50 million. AND Warriors revert back to WRFC.

What then for a small £16million investment.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Drutz (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 14:39
Quote:
Faithful_City
If we go down and stay down for 4/5 seasons by which time Worcester expansion has turned it all into housing land it becomes worth £45/50 million. AND Warriors revert back to WRFC.

JP

On the second part of your comment JP the Warriors cannot simply revert back to WRFC. They are two different teams WRFC and WWRFC, and are viewed as such by the RFU and Prem Rugby etc. One cannot revert to being the other as such and I'm not sure there is any enthusiam from either side to link up again in the foreseeable future having just moved apart.
As for where WWRFC see their future I do not know but maybe the meeting on the 31st will clear that up but I'm pretty sure it will not involve WRFC.



Pulling the boots on for one more year

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 14:46
It may just fade away Drutz and “we” revert back to supporting WRFC.

Get close to the action again.

JP

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who is going to buy us?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 14:58
FC,

I understand how the future numbers can stack re Freehold. However unless i’ve read your comments wrong, you suggested the Allen’s had only invested “ several thousands”. Can’t imagine that was CD’s selling price, but I don’t have facts on that. In the last 4 years the club has lost at a rate of £4-£5 mill per season, excluding extraordinary write off of £20 mill debt owed by club to AN Others. The Freehold wrangle has been circa 2 years to wrestle iirc from snippets on here, even 2 years pre discussions, have between £8-£10mill to be bridged by Allen’s, doesn’t it? That’s ignoring the initial purchase price.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 15:14
Quote:
Yes they had put in several £1,000's but there major investment came once there had been movement within WRFC to give a very long Lease(I think it was 250yrs) the freehold was then exchanged later after further negotiations.

JP


So yes you did misread FF

JP

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 15:37
Quote:
Patgadd
I still don't believe that the board (which, remember, includes one Chris Pennell) wants anything but the best for the club. We shall see.

I don't know where you got that from Pat, but Chris isn't on the Board. Current directors are:

Greg Allen;
Bill Bolsover;
Cecil Duckworth;
John Crabtree;
Anthony Glossop;
Gus McKay.

Company secretary is Kirsty Fisher.

Chris Pennell has never been a director.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 15:53
Quote:
Eternal optimist
BillBolsover may have the club at heart, but just how much of a say will he have in all this. Not a lot I’d say and therefore down to the Allens. In which case are they looking to cut and run. In my humble opinion probably yes. Glass is now half empty.

Bill Bolsover may have the club at heart, personally, or believe he has, but legally, like all the members of the Board, he has a duty to act in the best interests of the owners of the business, ultimately Hockley Investments, via Sixways Holdings Ltd, and, to a lesser extent, Cecil, those being the only shareholders (the last annual return also indicated that Worcester RFC Ltd had some shares, but I assume that these have been bought out, along with all the other WRFC interests).

It is not necessarily the case that the best interests of the owners and those of the club will always align: never mind that two members of the Board either own shares directly or represent those that do.

In reality, I agree with your second sentence. Whilst Bill and other Board members may offer their views to Greg and Cecil, whatever the Allens decide (for their shareholding far outstrips Cecil's) will be what happens, as shareholders ultimately control any such business.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 16:15
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Patgadd
I still don't believe that the board (which, remember, includes one Chris Pennell) wants anything but the best for the club. We shall see.
Chris Pennell has never been a director.

B*gger. I searched through Companies House, and found a PDF confirming him as a director along with Gregg Allen et al as from 11th March 2015. I have spent the last half an hour trying to find out how to transfer a screenshot to this forum, and then went rather red as I realised this was Worcester Warriors Community Foundation. Mea culpa twice in one day. I stand by my conviction, though, that the eventual sale, whoever the buyers are, will benefit the club.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 20:58
That really should be the bottom line. Mr Allen has stated that the future of the rugby club is the priority, we have no reason to doubt his word.

Put forward suggestions for supporters club chair to put to club, (done on t’other thread), go to Oct 31st evening, discuss, listen, and review.

In the meantime, win a game of rugby.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Who is going to buy us?
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 07:20
Just because you're on any one board does it mean you're a director?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Fiver (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 08:14
The full name of the board is the board of directors. Directors don't have to be share holders, though. There are also executive, and non-executive board members. Executive members are generally heads of department and deal with the day to day stuff. Non-executive will help with the general policy of the business.

Just because you're on one board, it doesn't necessarily put you on the board of an affiliated company.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 08:27
Yes Fiver, all true, and in addition many large companies choose to assign senior managers as “Directors” as a vanity title, when they are not registered as such as specified in law as per the Companies Act (latest iteration 2006.)

Have been such a “director” myself on several occasions.

 
A38
Re: Who is going to buy us?
A38 (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 08:43
TT: Quite right. All board members are directors but not all directors are board members.

But one important distinction is the legal / fiduciary responsibilities which a board director has and which a Director of the Paperclips Department doesn't.

Gone are the days - or they should be - when semi-geriatric non-executive directors of major plcs turned up once a month for their lunch. To get this and their very nice fees all they had to do was to sit in a board meeting and nod at the appropriate time when requested by the executive directors.

 
just got into rugby
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Big Bird Warrior (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 22:05
Is there not a covenant on the land which states it is for the purpose of rugby? Or did I dream that?
Surely that would mean it could not be flattened and turned into a housing estate?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 22:52
I wouldn’t worry too much about speculation of housing estates just yet BBW.

That, along with the “the franchise could easily get moved to wherever”, is a disaster scenario which has been raised only on here, and unless current owners are simply lying through their teeth is not even a remote likelihood, although technically possible.

In my opinion of course....and what do I know? Until proven otherwise the Allen’s pledge to ensure the future of rugby in Worcester should be taken at face value.

Even if that may well mean the rugby is at level 2.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Abberley (IP Logged)
23 October, 2017 23:05
Quote:
Big Bird Warrior
Is there not a covenant on the land which states it is for the purpose of rugby? Or did I dream that?
Surely that would mean it could not be flattened and turned into a housing estate?

It may well depend on when, and by whom, the covenant was initiated?

If it was part of the complex Trading/Holdings/Players/WRFC Ltd/... structure (created specifically to protect the amateur Club from a potential failure of the professional rugby venture) then it could easily have been extinguished as part of the recent freehold deal.

However, if it was part of the original sale of Sixways to the Club following the move from Bevere, then a release would need to be negotiated with the original covenantee (or their heirs)- which could be more tricky.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 07:05
A restrictive covenant is a private agreement between land owners where one party will restrict the use of its land in some way for the benefit of another's land. Restrictive covenants, once agreed between the parties, are placed in the title deeds to the property. They bind the land and not the parties personally. In other words, the restrictive covenant 'runs with the land'. This means that the covenant continues even when the original parties to the covenant sell the land on to other people. Restrictive covenants also continue to have effect even though they were made many years ago and appear to be obsolete. They are enforceable by one landowner against another, provided they are restrictive or 'negative' in their effect and effectively allow a form of private planning control.

Covenants are private agreements not a planning restriction.

Under Section 84 of the Law of Property Act 1925 or Article 5 of the Property (Northern Ireland) Order 1978, a person interested in certain types of land can apply to the Lands Tribunal to have any restriction on that land cancelled or modified

Its planning that would stop it. Is a hotel part of sports buildings?

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Who is going to buy us?
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 13:39
Quote:
Abberley
Quote:
Big Bird Warrior
Is there not a covenant on the land which states it is for the purpose of rugby? Or did I dream that?
Surely that would mean it could not be flattened and turned into a housing estate?

It may well depend on when, and by whom, the covenant was initiated?

If it was part of the complex Trading/Holdings/Players/WRFC Ltd/... structure (created specifically to protect the amateur Club from a potential failure of the professional rugby venture) then it could easily have been extinguished as part of the recent freehold deal.



However, if it was part of the original sale of Sixways to the Club following the move from Bevere, then a release would need to be negotiated with the original covenantee (or their heirs)- which could be more tricky.

Restrictive covenants on land are for the benefit of parcels of land and not individuals, and as such any covenant would be for the benefit of the owner of the relevant parcel of land. Negotiation is one way to get it knocked off the title.

However - if the feeling is that the covenant is passed its beneficial life and there is no actual purpose to retaining it, you can apply the the Upper Tribunal (lands chamber) to get it extinguished under s.84 of the 1925 Law of Proeprty Act.






Guess who has been dealing with one at work smiling smiley


Sorry boys and girls - as you were!

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 14:03
It would be breaking a confidence to tell you where this came from, but it may help.

Any offer will be rejected if it lacks (a) the commitment to spend a minimum of £x on rugby for a number of years and (b) an agreement not to sell the P shares.

The rugby facilities are worth a lot more then the land.

I have a marshmallow hat for sale as I will shortly no longer have the need for it.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Who is going to buy us?
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 16:50
(Seeing as my profession is as near as makes no difference given away above)

In my opinion, people are over-estimating the value of the sixways site/the planning possibilities.

The planning regime may change in the future - but people looking to develop land will only look to the foreseeable and not tie up any money in the future beyond that (house builders do landbank, but only where there is plausible light at the end of the tunnel).

And they pay commensurately for that land anyway.

Simple state of play currently is that a planner would say 'non' to houses being built, and so a developer would also say 'non'.

If a retail park got refused planning by the hospital citing traffic, it would at sixways also.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Abberley (IP Logged)
24 October, 2017 23:03
I wonder if WRFC incorporated an Overage clause when the Sixways freehold was eventually sold?

(Our neighbours have just sold a house & six-acre orchard - with a 25-year overage of 30% of any subsequent increase in value should planning be obtained).

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 08:08
Can I ask why all this talk of housing at Sixways has suddenly come up? Looking at the site from an objective point of view you will not get planning permission for residential use of any sort, its pie in the sky thinking to suggest otherwise.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 08:09
Think it’s just people worrying what the future will hold.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 08:33
Well then may I suggest in relation to housing people stop worrying. As someone who has first hand knowledge of the planning system in relation to residential developments the idea of developing even part of the area into housing are fanciful it is not the right area to develop housing on a small scale and no planning authority is going to give planning permission to build a large development on the site.

While the site would be suitable for commercial development it would not be an out of town retail park which is now largely considered a no go in terms of urban regeneration and focussing on maintaining city centres, in addition to that Worcester already has a number of these facilities so again planning permission would be extremely hard to get. The site as has been shown by David Lloyd is perfect for a certain type of service style commercial development such as leisure facilities which is why the club is looking at a hotel however these are all things that can be developed on the site alongside the rugby club.

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 08:35
What you say makes a great deal of sense, WBW.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 08:54
Patgadd hopefully it will reassure some people on here. The issue and doubt amongst supporters is arising from what is perceived as little in the way of news coming out of the club in relation to new investment. All supporters have heard is from one interested party who is no longer in the running who managed to unsettle numbers of supporters with his posts. Personally I would not expect to hear anything until new investment has been found as these will be confidential talks and the Worcester News is hardly going to dig for an exclusive as the paper seems more interested in reviews of chain restaurants in Worcester than proper journalism.

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 08:58
Quote:
West Brom Warrior
The Worcester News is hardly going to dig for an exclusive as the paper seems more interested in reviews of chain restaurants in Worcester than proper journalism.

...and cut and paste quotes from this forum, social media and press releases

 
Devonianwarrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Devonianwarrior (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 09:32
What I find unsettling is a rudderless club drifting towards the Championship. We have owners/board who, whilst still motivated, over the last few years have proved ineffective and now the club is up for sale, with their long term motivation in question, are proving even more ineffective. We have a part time DOR who has announced his departure at the end of the season. Goodness only knows the effect on the players and coaches. Against this background I saw EG as a light at the end of the tunnel.We need new owners and quickly.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 13:23
WBW, I agree with your points about development: Wychavon DC rejected out of hand, only a few years ago, the proposals for a sports village around Hindlip, abutting Sixways, that would have included residential and sporting development.

I'm not familiar with the South Worcestershire Development Plan but, given that Wychavon refused permission for a big screen in one corner of the ground, because they determined that it was too visually intrusive, I would be gobsmacked if the area is earmarked for much in the way of development at all, let alone a large tract of housing.

Where I disagree with you is about EG's posts on here. I think Devonian is much nearer the mark: it seemed to me that EG's proposals were well thought out and articulated and presented a vision that supporters could get behind. In contrast we have had diddly squat from the current owners, bland assurances about wanting what's best for the club aside.

It's not even clear whether the preference is to see a minority investor come in, sell a majority stake, or the whole caboodle, either with or without the Sixways freehold.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 13:28
BB I totally agree EG posts were excellent the unsettling I refer to was from supporters reaction as we had only heard one side of the story. Following his posts many seemed to try and find answers to EGs posts without any further information. It likely we will never know what the club said to EG in response to his proposals in full and therefore there is an information vacuum where we supporters can only speculate.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 13:44
But that's hardly EG's fault. There was misleading speculation about what his bid had entailed, including about moving the club somewhere else, so he acted to make sure that people had accurate information.

If the club were in any way unhappy they could have adopted a similar approach and explained why they didn't accept his offer. Instead, all they did was curtly dismiss any possibility he might still be an option, with virtually nothing more.

The information vacuum, such as it is, is wholly of the club's making.

What was it Gus said on his appointment about ensuring communication was put in the hands of professionals?



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
BrumBrum
Re: Who is going to buy us?
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 16:31
I was under the impression that EG bid struggled to get off the ground because he would not give certain commitments on the freehold and then did not want to proceed if the Allan's held onto the freehold or if it was put into a third party company/trust.

EG did a very good job communicating to us at a time when the club/board have not. Thus we all think he is the saviour.
The fact that nearly everyone speaks well of him, including players, BB, GG etc, means he no doubt is or could have been the saviour.

What I find baffling is the Alan family not pumping cash in for additional signings as surely the club will be worth a lot less in the Championship than in the Premiership.
The only solution to me is that the club is a lot closer to being sold than we think.

 
Patgadd
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 14:16
A poem (yes, another one) - The New Messiah


In 1997, after 12 months as professionals,
We needed cash to reach the heights to which we could aspire.
Then along came Cecil Duckworth, who provided us with capital.
Our Christmases had come at once – we’d found a New Messiah!

Another seven years it took, of triumph and adversity
Rung by rung we climbed the ladder, reaching ever higher
Until at last we reached the top, through hard work and tenacity
We’d made it, with the guidance of John Brain, our New Messiah.

A few years later, down we went, with Ruddock held accountable,
And up again and down again, just like a bride’s attire;
Though Richard Hill was held to blame, the snags seemed unsurmountable.
The club required a magic wand – or else a New Messiah.

Now enters Allen junior, who told us at a conference
We would at last arise again, a phoenix from the fires
He backed his words with something that would really make a difference;
Dean Ryan was appointed, and we now had two Messiahs!

But still no magic wand, as Dean was quick enough to tell us
And Greg decided he’d recruit a business-like high flyer
So up pops Jim, (and did it make Dean Ryan slightly jealous?)
A forthright, friendly sort of chap, if not quite the Messiah.

Things started well, and Sunny Jim at least communicated
Which after years of “need to know” was something to admire
But he and Dean did not agree, and we were desolated
When Ryan went – oh no, we need another New Messiah!

Now Sunny Jim has gone; we’re like a horse without a saddle
The rugby club is up for sale, and looking for a buyer;
It feels as though we’re up the creek without a bl**dy paddle
The cry goes up “Oh who, oh who, will be our New Messiah?”

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 14:25
Patgadd for official Warriors poet laureate I say.

Outstanding.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 15:39
Brilliant, love it

Pool 1:1 Manc (Sm128)

Getting there

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who is going to buy us?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 15:56
So WCFC to Parsonage Way t’other side of jct 6 doesn’t make anyone nervous of adjacent land use? The large warehouse development between M5 and Crowle was not even a twinkle in the planners eye more than 5 years ago. Now land formerly owned by WCC is flogged at bottom of Warndon villages, up to M5, KFC Fields is nearly open and Whittington village is nearly adjoined ro Worcester outskirts.

WBW, your planning knowledge will easily outweigh my cynical concerns, but I don’t see land linked to the club being “ as safe as houses” for too long. The club only woke up to its most underused asset just over a year ago. Make the rest of the ‘turf work’ will be part of a future owners plan, and not in creating a Mini Murrayfield imo. Maybe a hotel as I think you have mentioned but not sure about that ideas commercial appeal and no doubt Three Pears / Prem Inn and Pear Tree at Smite may make objections.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 16:41
FlipFlop, development in and around Worcester is now governed by the South Worcestershire Development Plan, adopted by Worcester City, Wychavon and Malvern Hills councils last year.

The areas you highlight (Parsonage Way, Swinesherd Way, the new Technology Park between Crowle and Ronkswood) are all set out in the plan as areas for development. The Sixways side of the A449 is not.

With the adoption of the plan Councils are in a very strong position to refuse planning applications that are contrary to it, for at least the next 4 years or so, as I understand it.

The plan.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
worcestawarrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
worcestawarrior (IP Logged)
25 November, 2017 08:04
Who's going to be our next owner?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/11/2017 08:22 by worcestawarrior.

 
worcestawarrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
worcestawarrior (IP Logged)
25 November, 2017 08:16
It's all gone quiet. We'll the next update should be out soon re the future at Sixways. The win has given us a positive slant on things and a bit of positivity. So Sixways it's not a bad place with a good infrastructure in place and no debt. If we're after heart and sole, no better team than Cecil and Bill, but can they afford it without remortgaging us? Or will the amature club buy us.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
25 November, 2017 08:38
How/why would the amateur club buy us?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
25 November, 2017 11:41
I had heard a few weeks ago that Cecil was interested, maybe a consortium with Bill and Cecil as part of it???

JP

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
25 November, 2017 11:56
Cecil and Bill owning the club and putting Ed G in charge would not the worst thing that could happen, IMHO.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
worcestawarrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
worcestawarrior (IP Logged)
25 November, 2017 20:54
And after today's result are we more desirable and has the price gone up.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 09:12
I had heard on the grapevine a local businessman was interested with a consortium.....that is all

Not to be requoted kind of rumour but a remour!

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Who is going to buy us?
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 09:43
If cecil is involved in any takeover we will be just fine.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Drutz (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 09:58
Quote:
usa warrior
How/why would the amateur club buy us?
Not sure where that one came from but you're right usa warrior there is no interest in this whatsoever.



Pulling the boots on for one more year

 
shirelad
Re: Who is going to buy us?
shirelad (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 21:12
At Friday last week's answer and question lunchtime session with Gus and Gary:

1/. Two offers currently on the table which are being given due diligence.
2/. Greg won't come to any formal meetings as he is limelight shy.
3/. Ed Griffith's proposal turned down as the 49% anonymous shareholder wouldn't be revealed.
4/. FH being signed up moving forwards next year all being well.

Other bits and pieces but these were the more interesting ones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/11/2017 21:14 by shirelad.

 
Warriors23
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Warriors23 (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 20:17
I heard from someone (with connections to the club)that a a buyer maybe imminent and that they are also a current owner of a football club.

 
Offa
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Offa (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 20:45
Hopefully not Sport Direct Warriors.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 21:53
At least they’ll be used to losing money!!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 22:31
Whelan had Wigan Athletic and look what he did to ORRELL and I do believe he is close neighbor of Cecil in Barbados.

JP

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 23:01
Could this be Cecil’s consortium?

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Who is going to buy us?
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 00:08
Dave Whelan is an a* tw@t. Wont be him.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 01:20
Quite an elderly one as well. A new venture would be odd.

 
Norfolk Warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Norfolk Warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:34
Good thought. What about the current Leicester City owners. They appear to have the money and possibly the inclination

 
A38
Re: Who is going to buy us?
A38 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:39
I suppose that it is about now that rumours would be starting up again. There was bound to be a period of quiet after the closing date for bids but they are now beginning to appear.

Hopefully matters will now move on apace.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:39
No Chance.

JP

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:54
So IF we’re about to be sold, does the DOR appointment get put on hold?

 
A38
Re: Who is going to buy us?
A38 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:19
I don't see why the two cannot go hand in hand. As you say, IF there is a new owner imminent, the sensible thing would be for the appointment of a new D of R to be discussed between buyer and seller. After all, the new D of R will always be associated - because of the timing - with the new ownership. Better perhaps to make a PR "thing" about it by announcing both the new owner(s) and D of R at the same time.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 12:34
Funny one though isn’t it. Process should be complete for the DOR.

 
Maul Master
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Maul Master (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 19:38
What happened to the SRU interest?

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who is going to buy us?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 20:00
Surely Leicester City owners would prefer Tigers?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 20:10
Exactly

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 07:07
Quote:
Warriors23
I heard from someone (with connections to the club)that a a buyer maybe imminent and that they are also a current owner of a football club.
Obviously Worcester City!

 
BrumBrum
Re: Who is going to buy us?
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 07:35
Pure speculation due to the comment about already owning a football club.
It also adds a bit of fantasy with serious mega bucks.
But how about Jim Redcliffe?
He makes the Allens look like poorhouse residents.
Rational
1) - recently bought a Swiss football team,
2)- lives in Switzerland thus may know the Allen's,
3) - went to Birmingham University thus a vague connection to Warriors
4) - has an interest in getting kids active & believes sport is key to that.
5) - worth £10bn

Ok hugely vague, but this story has NO substance, thus why allow facts to get in the way of a good story.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who is going to buy us?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 07:41
Hope he doesn't read that you've spelled his name wrong!! He may pull out of the deal.

Believe it's "Ratcliffe".

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 09:50
For these who don’t have a clue who Jim Radcliffe is (which included me up to 5 minutes ago)

He’s Chairman and CEO of Ineos Group, which manufactures industrial chemicals and plastics

He’s a major Brexiteer.

He owns ( no doubt amongst other vehicles ) an orange Land Rover Defender

He has expressed a desire to build a replacement for that vehicle since JLR ckearly don’t want to.

He’s got a lot of dosh.

What’s not to like?

 
BrumBrum
Re: Who is going to buy us?
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 10:42
Think he is worth £10-£15bn. Wiki have him at £10, but a few others £15.
Believe that gets him in the top 100 richest in the world.
Has recently made some very strange acquisitions that include a Swiss football team and is a very passionate believer in motivating/encouraging young people to be active in life and that includes through sport.

Do I think he is interested in Warriors?
Not in a 100 years, but it would be nice even if it was only to dream for 10 mins.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Abberley (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 11:09
Perhaps he's worked out that Sixways is sitting on shale and is a potential fracking site?

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who is going to buy us?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 11:24
Not sure which is the weakist link from the above to this rumour, but in the absence of any official information, the conjecture appears harmless enough.

 
Warriors23
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Warriors23 (IP Logged)
05 December, 2017 17:01
Quote:
knightstemplar
Quote:
Warriors23
I heard from someone (with connections to the club)that a a buyer maybe imminent and that they are also a current owner of a football club.
Obviously Worcester City!

Don't mock! .... all will prevail

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
05 December, 2017 18:15
Quote:
Warriors23
Quote:
knightstemplar
Quote:
Warriors23
I heard from someone (with connections to the club)that a a buyer maybe imminent and that they are also a current owner of a football club.
Obviously Worcester City!

Don't mock! .... all will prevail

Do we still have a Hallmark suite?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who is going to buy us?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
05 December, 2017 20:28
Is David interested then?

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