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ROLLO on tour
Is the grass greener?
ROLLO (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 16:39
I have been thinking of those players in the recent past who have left that we could not persuade to stay. Have their moves proved worthwhile?
Ruskin - Glos Too soon to say
Symonds LI/Glos Not so far - injuries
Cosgrove - Glasgow/Bristol Not so far
Kevesic - Glos/Exeter I would say not
Galazza - Glos Not really
Williams - Tigers Definitely yes.

Perhaps some of our star players may care to think on this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2017 07:44 by ROLLO .

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
Fiver (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 17:31
I don't believe any of them are contemplating spending next year in the second tier.

 
usa warrior
Re: Is the grass greener?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 18:57
Kvesic hurts the most for me. Left us with so much promise and on England fringes, now playing Amlin Cup rugby to get a game.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Is the grass greener?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 20:06
Tom Wood, Matt Mullen, Kai Horstman seem to have done okay.

Coincidence that the ones above went to Glaws and it didn’t go well?

 
usa warrior
Re: Is the grass greener?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 20:39
Bit early to say with Val, but doesn't look the player he was with us.

Symons always struggled with injuries as well. However they don't have a great track record with ex-warriors it would appear.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 20:43
Quote:
Fiver
I don't believe any of them are contemplating spending next year in the second tier.

There is the key we are perennial relegation fighters the other clubs are not.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Is the grass greener?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 21:36
Our 4G should be greener....

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Is the grass greener?
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 21:54
Quote:
FlipFlop
Our 4G should be greener....
Ha Ha!

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Is the grass greener?
ROLLO (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 07:48
Flipflop I was thinking of the recent past .
USA Warrior I think that Val will do OK at Glos given a bit of time, we have to beat in mind that competition for a place is stronger at Castle Grim. Equally if any club can revive Matt it will be Exeter, but again he will have to face some stiff competition for a starting place.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 08:02
Wood and Hartley havent done too bad Kitchener got a cap or two

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 08:04
I refer readers to my comment on the Kitto thread.

 
gmem
Re: Is the grass greener?
Garym (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 08:20
Quote:
knightstemplar
Wood and Hartley havent done too bad Kitchener got a cap or two

Kitchener left us with his "cap" for playing against the BaaBaas, not sure when he has played since for England. I know we keep saying that Hartley was one of i ours, but how many first team/"A" team matches did he actually play in for Worcester

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 08:55
Quote:
Garym
Quote:
knightstemplar
Wood and Hartley havent done too bad Kitchener got a cap or two

Kitchener left us with his "cap" for playing against the BaaBaas, not sure when he has played since for England. I know we keep saying that Hartley was one of i ours, but how many first team/"A" team matches did he actually play in for Worcester

Don’t know, but for sure his sojourn at Wuss was a brief step between his upbringing in Rotorua and his eventual appointment as an honorary Englishman.

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Is the grass greener?
ROLLO (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 11:21
The point of my post was recent times.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 11:30
Dylan has lived in the UK since 2002 so was 16 when he moved to UK.

Hartley was born in New Zealand, but qualifies to play for England through his English mother. He moved to Crowborough, East Sussex in 2002 and enjoyed the game through local teams and the Beacon Rugby Academy, where he competed with English, Scottish and Italian rugby hopefuls before being picked for Sussex and later divisional and England schoolboys.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

 
gmem
Re: Is the grass greener?
Garym (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 11:51
and to answer my own question , Dylan apparently played once for the senior team in a European Shield match (the 3rd tier of European competition) in a 30-30 draw against Leeds

[rugby.statbunker.com]

 
FlipFlop
Re: Is the grass greener?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 12:26
In recent terms, your summary is probably about right. For the players, they will all probably deem the move worthwhile as they are not here anymore and the issues that can surround that linkage.

Val and Kev have only been at their new clubs for a Pre season and a handful of games so far, so probably too early to decide with both.

Williams, we know we'd love him back after giving him his break in to the big time , and now just signed for another 3 years with Tigers, suggests he and Tigers know they have a good thing.

That said, if we believe that the majority of the initial names listed have not really lit up the Prem elsewhere, would we have been right to retain them either, even taking into consideration our own on field woes?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 13:10
Quote:
Powick Eastander
Dylan has lived in the UK since 2002 so was 16 when he moved to UK.
Hartley was born in New Zealand, but qualifies to play for England through his English mother. He moved to Crowborough, East Sussex in 2002 and enjoyed the game through local teams and the Beacon Rugby Academy, where he competed with English, Scottish and Italian rugby hopefuls before being picked for Sussex and later divisional and England schoolboys.

Aye, we can all cut and paste from Wki, but dig a little deeper and you'll discover his schoolboy rugby history in NZ, and wonder why he chose to come here instead of following through to senior level in NZ.

 
Offa
Re: Is the grass greener?
Offa (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 13:24
Ted, if he moved when he was 16, I would imagine the decision had little to do with him. I wouldn't let my 16 year old relocate himself or the family to the other side of the world. Surely it would be a parent/ family decision.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 13:29
Offa, I’m sure it was a family decision, of course that makes sense. Question remains “why”.

I was told by friends in Picton that there was considerable history, he was a schoolboy star, but always “difficult”, I pick my word carefully. There is stuff to be found if anyone wishes to research further.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 16:08
Lamb carving up the French league now.

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Is the grass greener?
ROLLO (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 20:06
But we didn't want to keep Lamb, my comparison is with those players who chose to leave when we would have liked them to stay.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 08:06
As Mentioned Matt Mullan has def benefited

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Is the grass greener?
ROLLO (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 09:21
Not a recent leaver though.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 09:42
Quote:
ROLLO
Not a recent leaver though.

Have we had any outstanding players recently leave?! (Sm163)

 
PMB
Re: Is the grass greener?
PMB (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 11:27
Blair Cowans has not done too badly (LI and Scotland) since not being retained with Kai Horstman a bad loss in my opinion.

 
Abmatt
Re: Is the grass greener?
Abmatt (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 19:15
Quote:
knightstemplar
Quote:
ROLLO
Not a recent leaver though.

Have we had any outstanding players recently leave?! (Sm163)

Mike Williams? To tigers. Hope I got the name right I’m terrible with names.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 23:51
No, you’re quite right Abmatt.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 07:08
Vui to Bristol

JP

 
FlipFlop
Re: Is the grass greener?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 09:07
That's a good shout JP.

Abmatt, Mikey was in Rollo's initial listing and indicated as a success, which is clearly not in doubt.

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Is the grass greener?
ROLLO (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 14:13
Yes forgot Vui in my original post, so far can't due to injury but I believe we certainly would have liked to have retained him which is the point of the thread.

 
usa warrior
Re: Is the grass greener?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 14:38
Difference with Vui is that he already had a contract with Bristol when he came to us. Slightly different circumstances.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Is the grass greener?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 14:58
USA,

As Andy Symons proved with LI / Glaws, a contract can always be broken.

Think Vui liked the idea of teaming up with Lam though.

 
usa warrior
Re: Is the grass greener?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 15:45
Agree with that. Was always going to play for Lam once appointed.

 
MacWarrior
Re: Is the grass greener?
MacWarrior (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 16:58
Creevy was a big loss but left because of his International commitments if I remember correctly?

What about Schofield,he was a big loss wasn't he, and so was his wife 😉

 
Abmatt
Re: Is the grass greener?
Abmatt (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 17:10
Andy Goode? I know we didn’t develop him but one more season with us could have paid dividends in the development of future prospects at 10.

 
usa warrior
Re: Is the grass greener?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 19:21
Oddly Goode was the opposite of this rule, wanted to stay but was let go by Hill, etc.

One of the worst decisions in club history imho.

 
A38
Re: Is the grass greener?
A38 (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 19:42
Quote:
usa warrior
Oddly Goode was the opposite of this rule, wanted to stay but was let go by Hill, etc.
One of the worst decisions in club history imho.

Oh to be a fly on the wall when some of these decisions were taken. I don't suppose we will ever know the "inside story" of any of the turning points in the club's history and who actually took what decision.

I still have, or at least I think I still have, a match day programme with Gomersall's face on it. It must have been the first game of that particular season and he would have been our star signing (?). Whatever happened to him?

It's not that I'm looking for anybody to blame - far from it - I'm just curious as to the thinking behind the decisions highlighted on this board over time. Those decisions might with hindsight look wrong to us - but at the time...?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 19:51
Lots of bad decisions and a lack of rugby expertise. Thats why we are here now

 
johns
Re: Is the grass greener?
Johns (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 07:33
Mike Williams was inclded in the England training squad, he was then injured.

He has just signed a new contract with Tigers, a very popular member of our squad.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
Fiver (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 07:42
Richard Hill was well known for his training. He loves training. When your head coach loves training, it's best you try to as well. Andy Goode would turn up when he felt like it, or occasionally not at all. Now, I wonder why Richard didn't offer Andy a new contract?

Richard would have felt that he could have replaced Andy, however, he got sacked before that could happen.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Is the grass greener?
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 10:28
Quote:
Fiver
Richard Hill was well known for his training. He loves training. When your head coach loves training, it's best you try to as well. Andy Goode would turn up when he felt like it, or occasionally not at all. Now, I wonder why Richard didn't offer Andy a new contract?
Richard would have felt that he could have replaced Andy, however, he got sacked before that could happen.

Now here is -sort of - the rub (IMHO). Some people do have practices which would be unacceptable in a normal work environment - regardless of their position in the company. As a coach, for example, regardless of performances on the pitch I would want my big money stars to ALSO work hard and set a good example of work ethic to the youngsters. You are paying them an awful lot after all.

I have noticed round these here parts (I don't know if it happens at other clubs) that certain players become a little bit....untouchable... for want of a better word.

I get the impression Andy Goode could have stolen the other boys lunch money, hit the coaches and only bothered coming on every third Wednesday - and people would still find a way to blame Hill for it.


The trouble is with stuff, is we don't know what we don't know. But because of the miracle of the internet message board, we all seem to decide that what we know is DEFINITELY all there is to know, and so the conclusions drawn from data that could be anywhere between 1% and 100% of the data needed to form an opinion (and we never know where) end up turning into total, uncontrovertibly, immutable fact.

And once that is buried in, its buried in. No amount of evidence to the contrary will shift it.

Not sure where I am going with this. Just musing smiling smiley

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
Fiver (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 10:55
I once saw Andy turning up to training, if that's what you might call it. 20 minutes late, shuffling along at his own pace whilst playing with what looked like his ipod.

 
usa warrior
Re: Is the grass greener?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 11:02
All accepted and Hill is not at fault for everything, clearly, but to get rid of Andy because he (potentially) couldn't be managed by the DOR/Coaches, and then get rid of the coaches is silly.

The opportunity to do keep him was there and it's been a major turning point in our recent history; again imo.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Is the grass greener?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 11:47
For his adoring fans, Goode is back at Sixways in February 2018 with Jim Hamilton.

 
dkexile
Re: Is the grass greener?
dkexile (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 11:55
I'm finding it shocking that Goode wasn't dedicated to training.

He always looked in peak physical condition!

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Is the grass greener?
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 12:11
https://pics.me.me/andy-goode-rugby-emes-nstagram-1-7c-because-even-ronaldo-28595406.png

 
dkexile
Re: Is the grass greener?
dkexile (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 13:03
sad smiley I can't see half your post on my phone, what does Ronaldo need?

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Is the grass greener?
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 13:04
A hero, dear boy!

 
dkexile
Re: Is the grass greener?
dkexile (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 13:10
Thanks

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
Abberley (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 19:02
Quote:
TVM Rides Again
The trouble is with stuff, is we don't know what we don't know.

Quote:
Donald Rumsfeld
...as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

...it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones

 
Patgadd
Re: Is the grass greener?
Patgadd (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 22:20
Going back to the title of the thread - prominent in tonight's historic victory by Glaws were one V.R. Ruskin and one A. Symonds. Just saying...

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Is the grass greener?
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 22:57
Not to take anything away from Glaws' win but this Sarries team was similar/just as weak as when we beat them last season @ home.
But you can only play what's in front of you.Sarries strength in depth is phenomenal so without their internationals they're still a force to be reckoned with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/11/2017 23:00 by w4rriorz1980.

 
gmem
Re: Is the grass greener?
Garym (IP Logged)
18 November, 2017 06:15
Quote:
Patgadd
Going back to the title of the thread - prominent in tonight's historic victory by Glaws were one V.R. Ruskin and one A. Symonds. Just saying...

But would Ruskin be happy with a bench spot? Symonds has to do that on a regular basis to convince me, never been his biggest fan. I saw too many performances like his one against LI to shed tears when he left

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Is the grass greener?
ROLLO (IP Logged)
18 November, 2017 10:43
I think that Glos are now beginning to see the benefit of bringing Ackerman in as Head Coach. I have no doubt that Ruskin will do well at Glos as will Symonds if he can stay fit.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Is the grass greener?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
19 November, 2017 17:15
Quote:
A38
I still have, or at least I think I still have, a match day programme with Gomersall's face on it. It must have been the first game of that particular season and he would have been our star signing (?). Whatever happened to him?

Stand up, toe-to-toe row with John Brain at Leicester Tigers that season, saw him shipped out to save the job of that idiot that JB brought in from Queensland. That worked out well, didn't it?



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Is the grass greener?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
19 November, 2017 19:57
I was privileged to be invited to a private farewell party for Andre Van Neirkirk (have I got close to that spelling?), and remember Gommers, dressed in a tight black leather jacket, and utterly unnecessary dark glasses (in a pub, at night) being such a general nob that several players suggested he might want to call it a night well before closing time.

Mind you, that was in the days of the Cheltenham Mafia.


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