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MESSAGES->author
Bath v Scarlets
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 22:54
Bloody good job weíre not playing Scarlets any time soon!

 
shrewsburyman
Re: Bath v Scarlets
shrewsburyman (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 22:57
Very struck with the pace and style of play.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Bath v Scarlets
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 07:26
No doubt you can be taught to play like that when you have no fear of relegation and can rest your big players the week before....and no, I donít mean Bath!

 
worcestawarrior
Re: Bath v Scarlets
worcestawarrior (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 08:43
Resting players! It's strength in depth. Scarlett scored two tries when down a man and played with a miss matched team
BBC - With Leigh Halfpenny and Johnny McNicholl failing fitness tests,
Rhys Patchell replaced full-back Halfpenny, Paul Asquith moved from centre to wing with Hadleigh Parkes lining up alongside Scott Williams in midfield, and Dan Jones started at fly-half for the first time no wander they don't want George North.

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Bath v Scarlets
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 10:07
Healey said it was a reality check for Bath....well we were utterly dominated at home by that Bath team. Scarlets attacking play was pretty awesome though.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Bath v Scarlets
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 10:37
Quote:
FlipFlop
No doubt you can be taught to play like that when you have no fear of relegation and can rest your big players the week before....and no, I donít mean Bath!

Iíve never understood that theory, surely the best way to avoid relegation is to win games, play attacking rugby and back your decisions and game plan.

I appreciate this is heresy.

 
NW2
Re: Bath v Scarlets
NW2 (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 10:52
Not taking anything away from Scarlets, they played brilliantly.
I do think though that if there is no fear of relegation, you can, if you want, ignore your league position, and put out your strongest side for every cup game, in an effort to win some silverware.
If we weren't so concerned about relegation, we could do that in both of our cup competitions.
Just saying.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Bath v Scarlets
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 11:08
NW2, yes there's certainly an issue where prioritising 2 different competitions comes in, but that's not the core of the issue.

The fundamental point is that absence of relegation threat makes teams play expansive running rugby, because they're not so worried about losing.,

I don't buy it. The best way to avoid the threat of relegation is simply to win, using whatever game plan suits your team's ability best.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Bath v Scarlets
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 16:59
Quote:
NW2
Not taking anything away from Scarlets, they played brilliantly.
I do think though that if there is no fear of relegation, you can, if you want, ignore your league position, and put out your strongest side for every cup game, in an effort to win some silverware.
If we weren't so concerned about relegation, we could do that in both of our cup competitions.
Just saying.
I agree.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Bath v Scarlets
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 18:31
Sorry NW2 & FF, but being able to ignore league position and concentrate on the Cup is a fallacy. For some years now, qualification in the Pro12 (now Pro14) has been determined by league position. To qualify for Champions Cup rugby, the Welsh regions have had to finish in the top 6/7.

As with the Prem, if they want 'domestic' silverware, they need to finish in the top 4.

I'm with Ted - it's more about attitude, quality of coaching and quality of player that determines whether a team plays attractive, attacking rugby. We've seen evidence of that ourselves, with the change of style and focus that Solly brought.

With Scarlets, there is also the question of DNA. The style that they played with on Friday night is the way that they have traditionally played rugby.

Ken Owens's view.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
FlipFlop
Re: Bath v Scarlets
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 20:53
With the SA sides involved in the 14, essentially a side could finish 8th or 9th out if 14 and still be in the play offs and the mix for Euro Champ Cup where ruled state a quota must go through anyway.

Yes Scarlets were effective and clinical but might wager their team changes for Bath compared to their Pro 14 game the week before, were more than Bathís changes having played us.

Iíll go and check.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Bath v Scarlets
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 21:03
TT / BB

Iím sure the Regions do all set out to win, just as Warriors do, I hope. However, if we finish bottom, we get a parachute, weíll intended best wishes from other clubs and console ourselves with believing weíll be better for it. Whatís the implication for a Pro 14 side if it doesnít click or 6th or 9th place is a pipe dream..... the chance to try again next year with a Euro Champ quota farce guaranteeing a set number of clubs from within Pro 14 Euro Cup income streams that make us weep.

If Scarlets are also in the Boss seat in the top 5 of Pro 14 already, a bit like in the Prem, any kudos about finishing top of a league is now gone where an end of season circus follows to decide the actual Champions. So they could ease off in a game where progressing in Euroís is arguably more lucrative in such a situation and thrashing your resource to win every game in a league becomes not so important imo.

PS

I aware that 2 conferences operate for the Pro league now, but believe the main view I have still remains even in this format.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/01/2018 21:54 by FlipFlop.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Bath v Scarlets
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 22:05
Quote:
FlipFlop
With the SA sides involved in the 14, essentially a side could finish 8th or 9th out if 14 and still be in the play offs and the mix for Euro Champ Cup where ruled state a quota must go through anyway.
Yes Scarlets were effective and clinical but might wager their team changes for Bath compared to their Pro 14 game the week before, were more than Bathís changes having played us.

Iíll go and check.

Scarlets v Dragons: Rhys Patchell; Tom Prydie, Steff Hughes, Hadleigh Parkes, Ioan Nicholas; Dan Jones, Aled Davies; Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Samson Lee, Steve Cummins, David Bulbring, Aaron Shingler, James Davies, John Barclay

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Wyn Jones, Simon Gardiner, Lewis Rawlins, Will Boyde, Jonathan Evans, Rhys Jones, Morgan Williams

Scarlets v Bath: Patchell; Asquith, Parkes, Williams, Prydie; D Jones, G Davies; Evans, Owens (capt), Lee, Beirne, Bulbring, Shingler, J Davies, Barclay

Replacements: A Davies for G Davies (62), W Jones for R Evans (66), Elias for Owens (67), Kruger for Lee (54), Rawlins for Bulbring (60), Macleod for Barclay (67).

Changes mostly due to injury/nursing knocks, rather than resting players for the big game. Scarlets played 3 welsh derbies in 10 days over Christmas and New Year. Also missing Jake Ball and Jonathan Davies to long term injury.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Bath v Scarlets
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 22:13
Flippy, I think weíre in danger of confusing 2 quite separate issues

1) do teams involved in 2 competitions and not in fear of relegation have an advantage in being able to sacrifice league games by fielding weakened squads..... thatís not an issue Iím disputing, or even very much interested in.

2) Does a league structure with relegation make teams less likely to play open running rugby because of fear of losing. This is often proposed, and I donít buy it. And I know Iím in a minority in believing that.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Bath v Scarlets
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 22:19
BB, we know Bathís current injury list is a bit of a mare, hampering selection for their busy Christmas New Year schedule too.

To be fair Scarlets start sides were not so different for both games, but with being top of Conference A and playing NGD, I would expect their big hitters were rested early, once W was in the bag. Not sure Bath were accorded quite the same in the game against us. I think that told to some extent in the result between Scarlets and Bath.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Bath v Scarlets
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 22:20
Quote:
FlipFlop
TT / BB
Iím sure the Regions do all set out to win, just as Warriors do, I hope. However, if we finish bottom, we get a parachute, weíll intended best wishes from other clubs and console ourselves with believing weíll be better for it. Whatís the implication for a Pro 14 side if it doesnít click or 6th or 9th place is a pipe dream..... the chance to try again next year with a Euro Champ quota farce guaranteeing a set number of clubs from within Pro 14 Euro Cup income streams that make us weep.

If Scarlets are also in the Boss seat in the top 5 of Pro 14 already, a bit like in the Prem, any kudos about finishing top of a league is now gone where an end of season circus follows to decide the actual Champions. So they could ease off in a game where progressing in Euroís is arguably more lucrative in such a situation and thrashing your resource to win every game in a league becomes not so important imo.

PS

I aware that 2 conferences operate for the Pro league now, but believe the main view I have still remains even in this format.

The quota only operates if no team from one of the 4 nations fails to finish in the top 6. In practice, this only really benefits the Italians, as usually at least one Irish, Welsh and Scottish team will finish in the top 6. This means that qualification is pretty much the same as in the Prem - you have to finish in the top 6.

As for league games not being so important because of the knockout at the end of the season, not true. Top 4 are seeded, with top 2 having home advantage. Before Scarlets won at Munster last season it was years since an away team had won a semi. There is a real advantage in finishing in the top 2, the same as in the Prem.

Really, the only games where a team like Scarlets would rest a lot of players who aren't injured would likely be home games against Zebre and Dragons. There will be rotation in other games, with Welsh international players rested when fit or carrying a minor niggle, but this will be on player welfare grounds, the same as with England internationals in the Prem.

It is sometimes more noticeable with Pro14 teams, simply because of the greater proportion of the team who are internationals: when Scarlets went on their two week sojourn to South Africa in the Autumn they left behind 16 players with Wales for the autumn AIs.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
FlipFlop
Re: Bath v Scarlets
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
16 January, 2018 06:39
Iíd agree about resting but as they were playing NGD and then Bath, the teams actually looked more comparable than expected.


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