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FlipFlop
T'eo to start against Italy
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:10
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Miraculous. Those healing hands in Brisbane must have been worth paying for.

Now for the injury in the last game of the 6N to rule him out for Warriors for the season(Sm164)

 
Ake1985
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Ake1985 (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:26
Ridiculous! How is a man who hasn't played at all or well all season straight back in the starting line-up!!!

So much for picking on form!

 
AJWarriors
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:31
On a positive note. Excited to see what he can do at 13 for club and country. I think thats his position to cement for both.

On another note guys just be aware that he was due back from injury around this point anyway so theres nothing miraculous about it.

Good luck Bennie. Another international representative of the club can only put us in a good light

 
Warr-i-ors!
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Warr-i-ors! (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:31
If it was against any team other than Italy, Teo would not be starting.

Sooner we offload him and free up some cash the better IMO.

 
woodywuss
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
woodywuss (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:34
The newspaper article that broke the story said he would recoup his layout with his match fee.I think it is 23k. I hope Eddie Jones has explained his decision to the other contenders for the position. Maybe he just wants to bash Italy into submission?

 
usa warrior
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
usa warrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:38
That is surely a strategic partnership as he and Farrell compliment each other well.

Looking forward to seeing them play on Sunday!!

 
AJWarriors
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:40
Quote:
Warr-i-ors!
If it was against any team other than Italy, Teo would not be starting.
Sooner we offload him and free up some cash the better IMO.

Kills me to say it but I agree to an extent. I think Teo is a luxury player in a position we are already pretty strong in. I definitely want him to stay 100%. I think once hes fit and firing hes devestating,but we need investment in other vital positions such as 10 and the forward pack. If we keep him and add to those positions then Ill be even happier. Just a shame the majority of our fans dont like him for whatever reasons

In my opinion which I know everyone wont agree with I think we should support him while hes still our player and save the opinions if and when he does eventually leave us

 
Whispering_Death
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:42
I agree, if it wasnt Italy it would be a crazy decision, but good chance to see what he can do outside Farrell from the start.

 
FlipFlop
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:47
AJ

He may well have been on the verge of return, but we have learned in the last few weeks of him financing his own rehab for whatever his reasons, he has been with the England camp despite being officially injured for Warriors, and now is picked for an Elite game.

I know he wouldn't have played tonight, but it seems that Uncle Ed is "the only one with the keys" to our Marquee vehicle. Just smacks a bit of the employee at work who has a lot of sick leave, but always manages to take their holiday and come to the office parties.

Hope he has a good game, and i don't wish him ill. But i do wish as a club we could get him to play in Gold & Blue much more than he does instead of with England / Lions etc.

Let's not forget, that he can only play for England due to us signing him.It's not always clear that he recalls this.

There may have been others in the market for his services, but given that we secured him, i'm not convinced that there were.

 
Scrum pox
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Scrum pox (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:48
I thought Easter was the time for miracles,but how wrong could I of been,the resurrection of Ben Te`o is unbelievable.

More like a farce and the joke is on Worcester Warriors.

 
dkexile
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
dkexile (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:50
I'm surprised but I hope he does well. I feel a bit for Joseph.

I really wouldn't say we're strong in terms of centre, certainly not looking forward to next season.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:52
I find it very odd that England will pick him to start when he has hardly played this season but I am delighted for Ben hopefully he uses the 6 Nations to showcase his talents and get match fitness for our run in.

 
backrow
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
backrow (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:55
Must have missed that have we got a T'eo playing at Worcester .(Sm159)

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
ROLLO (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 09:59
As I posted on another thread he was in the coaches lair for the Bath or Connacht game I can't remember which , so he has been around Sixways at least once.
If we wern't fighting relegation or were flying I think the attitude to Ben would be different. As it is I hope that he does well for England and comes back and does well for us - that is his challenge.

 
AJWarriors
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 10:00
Quote:
FlipFlop
AJ
He may well have been on the verge of return, but we have learned in the last few weeks of him financing his own rehab for whatever his reasons, he has been with the England camp despite being officially injured for Warriors, and now is picked for an Elite game.

I know he wouldn't have played tonight, but it seems that Uncle Ed is "the only one with the keys" to our Marquee vehicle. Just smacks a bit of the employee at work who has a lot of sick leave, but always manages to take their holiday and come to the office parties.

Hope he has a good game, and i don't wish him ill. But i do wish as a club we could get him to play in Gold & Blue much more than he does instead of with England / Lions etc.

Let's not forget, that he can only play for England due to us signing him.It's not always clear that he recalls this.

There may have been others in the market for his services, but given that we secured him, i'm not convinced that there were.

Hows it going FlipFlop

To be honest I dont actually think he was still officially listed as being injured for us. Its been the European and Anglo Welsh Cup period and I know hes been fit for a good while now so I doubt Eddie would be wanting him being risked being played in games that were of less importance than our games in the Prem and the 6 Nations coming up.

Eddie obviously sees him as a key player and with the amount of injuries England currently have then I think hes been saved for this 6 Nations campaign and the rest of the current season for us.

Dont forget he was injured in a pretty much lesser game in Europe and not in an important game playing for us.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 10:03
I would like this scenario.

He gets game time for England at 13 next two games then comes back to us for the Irish game and we have this backline

15. Pennell
14. Adams
13. Teo
12. Willison
11. Heem

10. Mills
09. Hougaard

JP

 
usa warrior
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
usa warrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 10:10
Could well be released back in order to get match fit.

Jones likes him as bench player however.

 
AJWarriors
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 10:36
Quote:
Faithful_City
I would like this scenario.
He gets game time for England at 13 next two games then comes back to us for the Irish game and we have this backline

15. Pennell
14. Adams
13. Teo
12. Willison
11. Heem

10. Mills
09. Hougaard

JP

Good selection JP. Not sure Millsy is too keen on going back to 10,but I like that backline a lot

 
kiddykid
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
kiddykid (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 10:39
Agree with the holiday analogy. I often think we have had to learn to live without him and am almost of the opinion mthat we might as well plan without him because I am not convinced that his heart is with us.......but he is a very good player but not sure about his mental approach being right. In a relegation fight next season he would be useful though.
I guess this is the way things are now in the pro game - see Will Dpencer and Jackson Willison for details

 
Blue&GoldWarrior
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Blue&GoldWarrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 10:57
I have T'eo down as playing WW:19 Eng:8 in the 2 seasons. Add the potential 5 caps for Eng in the 6nations that would take him to 19 vs 13. Would love to see the other players club vs country ratio. It's not a great return on 350k per season!

Agree with what has been said above he is a luxury player and we haven't used him to his full potential. Maybe only the Bath game last season with that break to set up Adams.

When I have spoken to BT he is an extremely driven and confident individual. He won't be worried about relegation as he will be in the prem regardless.

We've got him for one more season assuming we stay up. IF we can get a top 10 and RM inside him I think we could see a different BT. Did we see him with Lance at all?

 
Ake1985
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Ake1985 (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 11:00
Quote:
Faithful_City
I would like this scenario.
He gets game time for England at 13 next two games then comes back to us for the Irish game and we have this backline

15. Pennell
14. Adams
13. Teo
12. Willison
11. Heem

10. Mills
09. Hougaard

JP

Move mills to 12 and shilcock at 10. I'd be happy with that. Less pressure on shilcock with mills alongside and he can play his own game.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 11:06
Quote:
Blue&GoldWarrior
I have T'eo down as playing WW:19 Eng:8 in the 2 seasons. Add the potential 5 caps for Eng in the 6nations that would take him to 19 vs 13. Would love to see the other players club vs country ratio. It's not a great return on 350k per annum.

You can also add his Lions appearances into the equation: if he hadn't gone to New Zealand he would have been with England over last summer.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
FlipFlop
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 11:17
AJ,

You and i know he got the invite to the Training Camp while not being mentioned in training for us.

As others have said, he appears to have got to Elite intensity without playing a match for us. Made stranger by Denton's comments in the week about the step up he noticed to Scot Elite training in the past few weeks, and he's been playing for us before the call up.

Ben will do, what Ben will do. Good luck to him in that respect.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Drutz (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 11:45
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Blue&GoldWarrior
I have T'eo down as playing WW:19 Eng:8 in the 2 seasons. Add the potential 5 caps for Eng in the 6nations that would take him to 19 vs 13. Would love to see the other players club vs country ratio. It's not a great return on 350k per annum.

You can also add his Lions appearances into the equation: if he hadn't gone to New Zealand he would have been with England over last summer.

It was 4+1 on Lions tour so it already stands as 19 - 13 plus any of the 6 Nations games so if he stays fit and featured for all games it would be 19-18 for a 2 year period.



Pulling the boots on for one more year

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 12:07
Quote:
Blue&GoldWarrior
I have T'eo down as playing WW:19 Eng:8 in the 2 seasons. Add the potential 5 caps for Eng in the 6nations that would take him to 19 vs 13. Would love to see the other players club vs country ratio. It's not a great return on 350k per season!


On this if you put it purely as salary vs appearances then no he has not been worth the money. He is on about 500 a min in a Worcester shirt so far. However he has raised the stature of the club, we can say to potential players we have a Lion in the squad. Like most I want him to do well for England and us, hopefully the remainder or this season and next season we get more out of him which is as much to how we have used him when he has played as well as his lack of appearances.

 
centrethere
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
centrethere (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 12:19
Good luck Ben

 
FlipFlop
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 12:35
WBW,

I query if or how Ben has raised the stature of the club. Elite Mgt may visit us more than in the past, but Ben isn't a talent magnet for promising players.

Who do you think he has persuaded to the club that GG or AS hasn't?

As a club, we have only just begun to demonstrate that being at Warriors and international aspirations need not be mutually exclusive. However, one of those aspirants may need to move home for future fun, and Ben may move, because he can now we've helped "put him in the shop window", which after all, was the role the club appears to have taken on.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 12:49
FlipFlop very fair question but say you are a player in New Zealand or Australia and your agent says Worcester Warriors are interested. You google the club and Ben Te'o is a player at the club, he had a pretty good Lions tour most will know who he perhaps that will make them more inclined to sign up. Of course not the only factor but perhaps one that may play a part in a decision to join or not join a club.

I am also certain that since Te'o has joined we as a club have gathered more column inches in the media, while not linked in many ways the more recognisable Worcester Warriors are as a club to the wider world the better in my opinion.

 
centrethere
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
centrethere (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 14:26
Ben has been criticized for (a) being injured, (b) being away playing for England; (c) being away with the Lions; (d) being away doing his own rehab.; (e) being selected again / starting for England; (f) getting paid a reported 366,000 / year by Warriors; (g) having a dig at the Warriors position before the Bristol game in 2016; and (h) not playing enough for the Warriors. So apart from the last couple of points, why does he seem to wind up a few on this forum? Watch a few U-tube videos of his interviews and he comes across fine, with fellow professionals with a dry sense of humour, although a bit taciturn with the press on occasion.

 
Patgadd
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Patgadd (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 14:28
Centrethere - the voice of reason

 
woodywuss
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
woodywuss (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 14:51
A to H , fair basis for the opinion divide.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 15:15
Quote:
Faithful_City
I would like this scenario.
He gets game time for England at 13 next two games then comes back to us for the Irish game and we have this backline

15. Pennell
14. Adams
13. Teo
12. Willison
11. Heem

10. Mills
09. Hougaard

JP

Why would he come back to us for the Irish game? Its a 6N weekend.

 
FlipFlop
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 15:37
WBW

I would agree that his mention with the Elite does lend a linkage to Warriors and garner media coverage, which is good. But so will Josh now, and already has. Maybe even Denton will. I get that, and things with their progress and its kudos tend to sit better as we've had some good performances from them both in Warriors shirts, and this has got them noticed.

A stellar showing in the 6N may well have the media luvvies struggling to understand why Warriors are where they are in the league with a player like Ben in their ranks. Me too, but i've answered my own question re Ben- he's rarely available for us!

 
centrethere
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
centrethere (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 15:38
It is the partnership with Farrell as USA Warrior says. The telegraph analysis explains it well - [www.telegraph.co.uk]

 
FlipFlop
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 15:50
Quote:
centrethere
Ben has been criticized for (a) being injured, (b) being away playing for England; (c) being away with the Lions; (d) being away doing his own rehab.; (e) being selected again / starting for England; (f) getting paid a reported 366,000 / year by Warriors; (g) having a dig at the Warriors position before the Bristol game in 2016; and (h) not playing enough for the Warriors. So apart from the last couple of points, why does he seem to wind up a few on this forum? Watch a few U-tube videos of his interviews and he comes across fine, with fellow professionals with a dry sense of humour, although a bit taciturn with the press on occasion.

a) Happens- i get that
b) Usually without having played for his club, or just before he returns injured (see a)
c) See b
d) Doesn't feel our systems, staff or facilities are as good as his buddies back at Bronco's. Nice team ethic there.
e) See b
f) He and his Agent did the business. That is what we agreed to pay for his services.
g) Truth in what he said. Would query timing of it's release, or why it needed to be said to a newspaper at all. Someone worked that into the media and i doubt it was Warriors.
h) See a, b, c. Clearly you're cool with a player playing less than half a season of Prem games?

Of course your opinions is yours. But for me, the above is why the enigma that is Ben winds me up.

I can state that i would be more appreciative of the class he possesses and the eilte selections if he played more for Warriors, as i think he would be making a difference to our on going battle to avoid the drop.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 16:15
Flipflop yes if Adams does well for Wales then yes he will also add to the profile of the club which can only be good in our attempts to recruit.

Centrethere I am frustrated by Te'o not playing much for the club so far but I want him to play well for England and Worcester when he does play. He doesn't divide my thoughts I am delighted to have him at the club but just wish we saw more of him in a Warriors shirt. Many reasons why we dont and will not complain about having an England starter instead of playing for us but his selection to start an international after not playing since October is still baffling.

 
Malvern Man
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Malvern Man (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 16:16
In today's Telegraph, Austin Healey is wishing that Josh Adams was England qualified. What a shame he isn't.

 
woodywuss
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
woodywuss (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 16:16
Hougaard was influential in the latter part of last season. I hope BT has the same effect when he returns from England duty.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 16:38
Can we address the real problem here? Why is he getting 22k to play one match by the RFU? Playing for your country should be about reaching the pinnacle of the game and representing your country. IMO players shouldnt get Anything for it, other than obvious expenses. Based on the above figures we'll be paying tomorrow's england squad about 500k or 2.5m over the six nations. That's not taking into account physios, other players not in the squad etc.

Yet the RFU think its ok to pay champ clubs bext to nothing. Pathetic!

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 16:44
Quote:
Ake1985
Ridiculous! How is a man who hasn't played at all or well all season straight back in the starting line-up!!!
So much for picking on form!
EJ is very contradictory regarding selections.

 
OverTheBoarder
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
OverTheBorder (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 19:58
I believe centrethere sums it up perfectly. Teo received the call up. In his position how many professional players would have turned the opportunity down under the circumstance?

I assume we knew, or the club did, what we were signing in a potential International player at the time, so there shouldnt be any argument in releasing him for International duty when called.

However England selection should be based on form and merit and therefore cant agree that he should be donning the Rose before others such as Joseph.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 20:10
Quote:
dkexile
I'm surprised but I hope he does well. I feel a bit for Joseph.

At least he can have a good chat to Jamie George whilst they're both on the bench and get some tips on how to deal with being rejected in favour of someone who isn't performing anywhere near their level.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
657warrior
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
657warrior (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 20:13
The greatest comeback since the rising of Lazerus.
Get rid of him now.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2018 20:14 by 657warrior.

 
Underdog
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Underdog (IP Logged)
02 February, 2018 23:21
England rely hugely on Billy Vunipola to make the yards necessary for the backs to get going. When he's not available, Hughes does a decent job. Neither player is available, hence why we have a rookie at 8.

Tactically, it makes perfect sense to include carriers elsewhere in the side so that we aren't asking a novice to take on massive amounts of carrying in heavy traffic that only the complete freak of nature England usually pick at 8 can manage. The presence of Lawes, Itoje and Ben will mean Simmonds has more license to carry in wider channels, which is where he works his magic for Exeter.

IMO, that's why Ben is starting and not Joseph.

As for the griping about Ben, I'm not really sure what the alternative is. As far as I can remember, he's never put in a lacklustre performance and has pretty much played every time he's available. He's probably not ever getting the club badge tattooed on him, but I think a lot of the comments about his commitment to us are a tad unfair. My only wish is that we start to use him properly and not just as a battering ram.

 
centrethere
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
centrethere (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 00:35
I would suggest Ryan Mills is a student of the game and feel that Ben Te'o's skills at 13 have developed over the last 18 months, yet Ryan / Ben (and our coaches) haven't had the time to test them much, so like Woody for example, I'm really looking forward to a massive end of season at Worcester for Ben and co.

Added to which Ben must be on such a high having got himself fit again to play for England and in Eddie's eyes warrants a start on Sunday.

 
Old 7
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Old 7 (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 06:38
I understand that the media can frame a question or edit an interview to suit their agenda but I think opinions would be very different had it been reported that Ben was paying for his own rehab in order to get playing for Warriors again ASAP. He could then have added that if England come calling it would be a bonus.

I think that for Ben, playing club rugby for any team, is a necessary evil that has to be endured in order to play international rugby.

 
Dai Grumble
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Dai Grumble (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 08:01
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Can we address the real problem here? Why is he getting 22k to play one match by the RFU?

Irony is he gets more per game for Warriors due to his limited appearances.

Little can be done about time lost to Injuries, but I wonder if having such a lot of money tied up in one player, when you're a club in such a fragile position year on year makes sense.

Thats the sort of money that probably gets you a Jono lance and a half decent second row.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Abberley (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 09:32
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Playing for your country should be about reaching the pinnacle of the game and representing your country.
IMO players shouldnt get Anything for it, other than obvious expenses.

Isn't that the main issue - the concept of 'Country' [and, with the advent of professionalism, even 'Club'] is outmoded?

I am of an age where I can recall fellow post-colonial expats shipping their pregnant wives back to the UK for the confinement so that their offspring would be entitled to play for Yorkshire.

Should you represent the 'country' where you were born, or the 'nation' you were born into?

Ben Te'o has represented New Zealand, Samoa, England and even Queensland in the State of Origin series. I gather from the recent press coverage that his pregnant partner is 'at home' in Queensland. I wonder which country his offspring might potentially represent?

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 09:49
Yep its absurd and rugby has lost the plot a bit with the residency rule. A change to 5 years will help but not solve the issue.

 
Underdog
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Underdog (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 12:32
I agree it could probably do with tightening, but any sensible policy would include allowing parental birthplace to count as a method of qualification. As a result, Te'o could play for England under that policy as his mother is English.

In any case, as long as everyone is bound by the same laws, it's at least a fair system.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Abberley (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 13:48
Quote:
Underdog
In any case, as long as everyone is bound by the same laws, it's at least a fair system.

Possibly fair - but meaningless.

It might be better if

a) Sports 'nationality' were considered fixed when you represent a country at any sport at senior (18+) level

b) In order to represent a country, you must be (or become) a citizen of that country.
[Doesn't quite work with England/Scotland/Wales/N Ireland - but would help to concentrate the mind even there.]

 
Underdog
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Underdog (IP Logged)
03 February, 2018 14:56
For me it needn't be so stringent. I'm English and have always lived here, but my mother was born elsewhere. Now, say I'm an excellent rugby player but England have no need of me, I'd happily and proudly pull on the jersey of her homeland. That might make me a mercenary in the eyes of some.

For me, it should be seven years or place of parental birth. That's enough.

More interesting to me is the idea put forward by Fotuali'i of Samoa. He said Union should follow League's example and allow cast aside tier 1 players to declare for a tier 2 nation they qualify for. I agree with that but imagine it wouldn't be popular.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: T'eo to start against Italy
Fiver (IP Logged)
04 February, 2018 00:02
I'd be happier with a cut off age for residency. How can someone who has no link with a country play for the national team? A few years working there? It's a nonsense. If that person moved as a child, then I think it's fair. I'd personally be happier with something like:

1. Born here
2. Parent (s) born here
3. Lived here aged 16 or younger.

Forget grandparents. Forget auntie who once knew someone with a Yorkshire terrier. Forget took a big pay packet at a club which kept them in the country for a few years. A bit of honesty and morality would be nice.

However, I'm aware money talks and every team needs a few south sea islanders, so I'm led to believe.


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