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neiljk
Who gets better at Tigers?
neiljk (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 15:32
Given tbe apparent migration eastwards I wondered who actually gets better by moving there. Aside from their historic status they look largely like a club in decline to me.

I canít think many that have joined from here have gone onto better thngs, or if I think about it players from othe clubs. They have a wealth of history from players they have brought through but canít see the same with established pros.

Might be just me, but I canít see the attraction. Sarries or Exe come knocking then maybe...

 
incastrowetrust
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 15:38
Quote:
neiljk
Given tbe apparent migration eastwards I wondered who actually gets better by moving there. Aside from their historic status they look largely like a club in decline to me.
I canít think many that have joined from here have gone onto better thngs, or if I think about it players from othe clubs. They have a wealth of history from players they have brought through but canít see the same with established pros.

Might be just me, but I canít see the attraction. Sarries or Exe come knocking then maybe...

I mean outside this season.
The fact that we have been in 13 playoffs on the trot has helped alot in luring players.

Even with our big decline we manged to make top 4 last season.

 
neiljk
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
neiljk (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 15:42
Ooo I hooked me a Tiger!

Getting to the play offs is obviously lovely, but still not sure who you make better.

In the debit side from us I have Benjamin, Kitch, Williams and Blaze. None in credit side.

 
incastrowetrust
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 15:45
Quote:
neiljk
Ooo I hooked me a Tiger!
Getting to the play offs is obviously lovely, but still not sure who you make better.

In the debit side from us I have Benjamin, Kitch, Williams and Blaze. None in credit side.

You say hooked but i post on most boards.

Personally i'm not that fussed but If Tigers don't make any players better (ex Worcester players or other clubs players as you say) ever then i'm surprised we haven't been in a relegation battle earlier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2018 15:45 by Ayerza wannabe.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 15:57
No ex Worcester player has ever pushed on at Tigers despite the better competitions etc.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 16:10
Quote:
Ayerza wannabe
Quote:
neiljk
Ooo I hooked me a Tiger!
Getting to the play offs is obviously lovely, but still not sure who you make better.

In the debit side from us I have Benjamin, Kitch, Williams and Blaze. None in credit side.

You say hooked but i post on most boards.

Personally i'm not that fussed but If Tigers don't make any players better (ex Worcester players or other clubs players as you say) ever then i'm surprised we haven't been in a relegation battle earlier.

When you keep creaming off the best players from other clubs, you aren't going to be involved in a relegation battle and stand a very good chance of being top 4.

The point is that whenever players have left here (I suspect other clubs too), the argument is that by going to Tigers and being surrounded by better players, playing in the top tier in Europe and in the play-offs, they will become better players themselves and further their England ambitions/careers.

The actual evidence is rather different.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
hairyicecream
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
wusstawizard (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 16:17
Self-improvement is just one of many reasons why a player might wish to switch clubs. Others include:

Chance to play at a higher level (Champions Cup)
Chance to win silverware
Chance to play in front of big crowds
Bigger salary
Geographical location
Club personnel

To rubbish a player's decision based purely on whether or not it will further their international ambitions is somewhat one-eyed.

 
neiljk
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
neiljk (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 16:22
Iíd say improving as a player and international recognition have to be huge factors. Playing in champions cup and silverware will also be big ones, but in case of Tigers silverware has been thin on the ground.

Were it me, Iíd want to be sure Iíd thrive and get better. However I canít see thatís the case at Tigers and I canít see who they have brought on.

They have a good record on home grown talent for sure, but beyond that?

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 16:26
Wusstawizard,

I think the question was " who gets better", and not what makes a player want to join Tigers. Big difference.

I don't even think it was about international honours either.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 16:49
Tigers are unlikely to be in the Champions Cup next season and, historically, haven't been good payers.

There must be some draw?

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 16:55
Quote:
wusstawizard
To rubbish a player's decision based purely on whether or not it will further their international ambitions is somewhat one-eyed.

But what if that's what the player says at the time? Kitch was quite explicit about his reasons for moving and was simply following Lewis Moody's advice. Mike Williams was also pretty plain about his desire to play for England and his belief that playing for one of the big clubs was the way to do it, little old Worcester serving simply as a shop window for his talents.

I believe Will Spencer has also made little secret of his international ambitions, if not directly then certainly through the coaching staff "putting a word in".

I'll believe a player is moving simply for the chance of playing at home in front of 20k and a shot at Champions Cup rugby when they say they are sick of playing in front of only 8k and they'd rather quit than play another game in Russia/Georgia/Rumania/Italy/Newport/Galway.

Whilst they say its because they believe it will further their international career, I'll take them at their word.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 18:24
Define improved? Have they developed as a player? In many cases it is hard to say as I watch the Tigers when they are playing Worcester and at no other times really and I much prefer to watch Worcester closely rather than focussing on what an ex player is doing.
Have many of them gone onto international recognition? No but they didnít get much at Worcester either.

Have they played top European rugby in a secure premiership club? Yes and that is something we cannot offer them. Even if Leicester are in a rut currently and are struggling this season they sit 3 places higher than us in the league, 10 points clear of us and only 4 points behind a top 6 place.

History shows Warriors have little chance of shifting many trees in the Premiership and Leicester have a history of winning titles and competitions. I see the attraction of joining the Tigers over Worcester, if I was a player and made an emotionless choice of club I too would pick Leicester over Worcester.

Players moving on to new clubs is part and parcel of sport, I wish them no ills, I bare our leavers no grudges. They leave with my hope they will continue to have successful careers for all but 2 games a season when I want them to have a stinker of a game.

 
NW2
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
NW2 (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 19:51
Quote:
West Brom Warrior
Players moving on to new clubs is part and parcel of sport, I wish them no ills, I bare our leavers no grudges. They leave with my hope they will continue to have successful careers for all but 2 games a season when I want them to have a stinker of a game.

You're right of course WBW, however, in the case of Denton it would be nice to think he would have had SOME gratitude and allegiance, given his history at Bath and the difference the opportunity Worcester gave him has made to his career.

 
BrumBrum
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 19:56
I can understand the attraction of Tigers.
Been there a few times & it's a great place to live & breath rugby.
But it's a good point, few Worcester players have made the obvious next step to play for England or into the greats that we expected when the played for us.
Thought Williams would do great things, but nothing much & on the few occasions I have seen him on TV he just doesn't shine.

But I can still very much understand the attraction of Tigers.

 
neiljk
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
neiljk (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 23:11
So quite a few posts in and no names for anyone who has got better; by reputation, significant honours, international appearances?

I can see why we might be an unattractive option but equally Iím less sure of the cachet of Tigers but then I guess the reaction of their board is instructive. Denton is not a first rate pick and for a heritage side not prestigious. Maybe this is the pond that Tigers are now fishing in

 
Offa
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Offa (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 08:52
Tigers are and always will be a heritage club. They will be a draw for any player. They are in a dip, but will undoubtedly come out of it, the only question is when. Their current DOR is rebuilding. That is unfortunate for us, as it will be for other lower ranked teams, because the best will be creamed off. I don't like it, but it has been the reality of the situation for years. That is what makes breaking the catch 22 so tough. But it is the same in all professional leagues except NFL.
O'Connor will only get a couple of years to turn it around. But if not him, somebody else will.
AW posts here frequently. He/ she is knowledgable, informed, polite and most welcome.

 
Touchliner
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Touchliner (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 10:03
Quote:
Offa
Tigers are and always will be a heritage club. They will be a draw for any player. They are in a dip, but will undoubtedly come out of it, the only question is when.

That may be the key point - they are in a dip and currently 8th in the Premiership.

When we have been in a dip anytime in the last 14 years since reaching the Premiership we have been in or heading for the Championship!

Now which club sounds the most attractive for an ambitious player? We've talked the talk a few times over the years but never a serious prospect that we would ever see 8th in the Premiership as a "dip"!!

 
Bag Inton
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Ken I L Worth (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 10:54
The same is probably true of Bath. They both 'lure' bright shiny things,

As a Glaws fan I'm convinced there's an England squad culture that engenders an 'it's better for career' feeling, but rarely seems to happen. From our perspective Tigers 'bought in Freddie Burns and dumped him a couple of years later...and although Jonny May is scoring tries at Welford Rd he looks like a boy lost and has to go hunting for work.

But I've seen very few senior players from any club develop as a result of a move to Tigers.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:10
In the last 10 years Tigers have had 13 players selected for England International Honours (including Saxons) and 21 players for other National teams.

And our roll of honour is?

 
Rinkadink
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Rinkadink (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:23
Quote:
neiljk
So quite a few posts in and no names for anyone who has got better; by reputation, significant honours, international appearances?

Obvious ones from Bristol;

Ellis Genge
Martin Corry
Julian White

Genge will be returning to us unlike the latter two though. #Prays

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:12
TT,

Is getting better, getting picked for an International side or 6N side only?

Surely we're still not suggesting that Tigers=call ups without question?

Duratolo, Taufete, Denton, Hougaard, T'eo, Adams, Cavubati, Tuitupou, Grove, Pennell, Sanderson, Creevey, Senatore, Galarza to name a few.

Not bad for a perennial floundering club in basement battles or no heritage.

 
incastrowetrust
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:49
Quote:
Ken I L Worth
The same is probably true of Bath. They both 'lure' bright shiny things,
As a Glaws fan I'm convinced there's an England squad culture that engenders an 'it's better for career' feeling, but rarely seems to happen. From our perspective Tigers 'bought in Freddie Burns and dumped him a couple of years later...and although Jonny May is scoring tries at Welford Rd he looks like a boy lost and has to go hunting for work.

But I've seen very few senior players from any club develop as a result of a move to Tigers.

A bit Pot kettle black from a Gloucester fan.

RE players tigers have developed.
Current squad i would say
Thompstone
Tait
Genge
Hamilton
Malouf
Mulipola
Veainu
Have all improved since being here.
With 10 academy products in our senior squad.

Look i'm going to be obviously one eyed, not without sounding arrogant or anything (which is extremely hard in our current situation LOL) but is it a case of players not developing or a case of players not standing out as much because it's in a better performing team again not saying it's the case now as Worcester showed when they bossed us completely at Welford in a deserved win, just saying in the past.

Kitchener for me outside the last 2 seasons where he is looking worst for wear physically was a our best lock and pushing B&I lion Parling.

On injuries not much i can say as i don't know the reasons for or why. But Blaze was called up to the England elite squad with us before his injury so not sure why people keep using him as an example of not getting England recognition.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:56
Quote:
FlipFlop
TT,
Is getting better, getting picked for an International side or 6N side only?
.

No, itís about the pulling power of Tigers, and the perception of players who go there.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:05
I thought the question was "Who gets better at Tigers" and not "Why sign for Tigers"?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:11
Quote:
FlipFlop
I thought the question was "Who gets better at Tigers" and not "Why sign for Tigers"?

Are we paying enough attention to know if our ex players are getting better at the Tigers?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 15:45
Quote:
FlipFlop
I thought the question was "Who gets better at Tigers" and not "Why sign for Tigers"?

Yes, but the discussion has drifted a bit, often does!

 
usa warrior
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:05
Kitchener was not a million miles near a Lions call up. What rubbish! Never even played for Saxons after moving did he?

 
Ronster
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Drahm for England (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:07
I'm not sure that's what was meant - he was pushing Parling (a Lion) hard for his place in the Leicester team.

 
incastrowetrust
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:28
Quote:
usa warrior
Kitchener was not a million miles near a Lions call up. What rubbish! Never even played for Saxons after moving did he?

Where did I say that?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:50
Quote:
Ayerza wannabe
Quote:
usa warrior
Kitchener was not a million miles near a Lions call up. What rubbish! Never even played for Saxons after moving did he?

Where did I say that?

You didnít...some of us understood you.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:54
Denton quoted in press,,,,
ďThe Scotland international back-row joins current team-mate Will Spencer in agreeing a move to Welford Road and cited his hopes of adding club honours to his 30 international caps as a key reason in signing.

ďIím really excited to be joining Leicester Tigers next season,Ē the 28-year-old told the clubís website.

ďThe club has a rich and celebrated history as well as a squad that is very capable of winning more trophies over the next few years.Ē

 
neiljk
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
neiljk (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 17:34
The question was who does get better,not why do players join. One or two good examples from Bris but Iím struggling beyond that.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 17:42
Neiljk do you watch that much of the Tigers that you see the players week in week out to make a fair judgement on if they have improved or not?

 
neiljk
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
neiljk (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 17:44
Theyíre always on the tv, so yeah a fair amount. There are few in their squad I would swap for and for me their trajectory as a club is down. Sarries and Exe seem to have a different culture

 
arkivist
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
arkivist (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 18:49
Could I suggest that as ŗn up and coming player one might prove ones worth by staying at Sixways and smashing the Mays Tuilagis or Robshaws week in week out rather than sitting on the bench for a large part of the season at a "better" club?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Fiver (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 18:58
I always love watching players giving it large at a trophy ceremony who've not actually played more than a few minutes all season. Love those guys.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 20:04
We had to go over the top when we won the B&I Cup due to our paucity of other chances to give a fist pump or two.

 
usa warrior
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
usa warrior (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 20:07
Thatíll teach me to read the forum outside on my phone. Odd phraseology, but understood.

ďKitchener for me outside the last 2 seasons where he is looking worst for wear physically was a our best lock and pushing B&I lion Parling. ď

 
just got into rugby
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
Big Bird Warrior (IP Logged)
15 February, 2018 23:47
Punctuation may have helped (Sm154)

Had to read a few times to get the intended meaning!

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Who gets better at Tigers?
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 07:20
Quote:
neiljk
The question was who does get better,not why do players join. One or two good examples from Bris but Iím struggling beyond that.
Hence would be one.


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