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AJWarriors
Eddie Jones
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:36
Has to grow a pair and drop some of his “favourites” I really struggle how some of these guys such as Cole,Hartley,Ford and I have to say Te’o start?

The back row was slow last week and even slower this week and the attack was non existent. Ford gets targeted every game and ran over. As soon as Farrell moved to 10 it was too late.

 
Ake1985
Re: Eddie Jones
Ake1985 (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:44
Who would you play at 12/13 if you move Farrell over? Mills would be in with a shout.

The backrow is appalling! England could really use a player like Sam Lewis!

 
AJWarriors
Re: Eddie Jones
AJWarriors (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:47
Henry Slade has to be in there. The thing I don’t understand with Eddie is that he’s not picking players who’s club is top of the league and clearly on form ie Armand and Ewers. They would add an awful lot to our pack that looks underpowered and Slow.

As for the backs I’d have


10. Farrell
11. Nowell
12. Slade
13. Daly
14. May
15. Watson

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Eddie Jones
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:57
Jerry Guscott just highlighted the end of the match before we knocked on the space we had on the right and the lack of authority from Farrell to basically shout "GO RIGHT!" There was acres of space!

Jones needs someone with authority to captain the team,someone with a voice.Not Hartley or Farrell again.



Eats,Shoots And Leaves

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:00
Looking at what is available or coming through England are not in a particularly good place

JP

 
centrethere
Re: Eddie Jones
centrethere (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:11
Neither Ford not Farrell are running the back line. Ford has to go at present as Farrell kicks. Another 10 needs a chance on the bench - Marcus Smith? Fed up with flat and static backlines so easy to defend against. What a contrast with the open lines of attack of Ireland and Scotland.

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Eddie Jones
ROLLO (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 20:57
It says something when the replacement scrum half is 34 years of age.

 
BrumBrum
Re: Eddie Jones
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 21:18
With the World Cup round the corner, you would have thought he would have used this 6-N to bring on new players.
Nope, nearly dropped my beer when I saw that role model Marler coming on. Never realised he was in the squad.
I really like Farrell, would have him at 10, but somehow we need to add something of life, energy & excitement into the squad/strategy because at times we were just so boring & predictable.
I don't know, but something is not working

 
Mikey40
Re: Eddie Jones
Mikey40 (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 21:45
Too much emphasis on strength and conditioning and not enough on ball skills. No structure and nous... one ruck Ford was first in to try and clear out!! WTF! And as for last few seconds... we had men out wide just waiting for the pass! No heads up rugby, we regressing!

 
Warr-i-ors!
Re: Eddie Jones
Warr-i-ors! (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 22:09
Te’o is nowhere near an England shirt. Drop him.

 
MacWarrior
Re: Eddie Jones
MacWarrior (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 22:32
This may be over simplifying England's predicament but I do think they lack a Ringrose ( who was different class today), Hogg or a Russell who just mix things up a little and create that Bit of magic. Are they playing by numbers ?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 23:05
Lost the breakdown big time today

 
Offa
Re: Eddie Jones
Offa (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 07:08
Lack of intensity.
Itoje and Launchbury look a shaddow of last year.
We really miss Billy V.
Backrow has been a mish-mash for a few years.

We needed this six nations. The last two years has hidden the fact that we are not as good as we think we are.

The only easy answer for me is Spade to 12. He is a class operator.

 
BrumBrum
Re: Eddie Jones
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 07:40
Think MacWarrior has it, we need a player to add magic, to make something out of nothing, thus a Russell, Hogg or Ringrose.
As for Te'o not fit to wear an England shirt, would add the other 14. Think it's a bit harsh tonsingle him out, actually thought he was not to bad.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Eddie Jones
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 08:34
England are over conditioned and over coached.

The skills and technique they have isn’t bad - but there seems to be no game intelligence, or instinct - which Ireland have in spades


England of 03 had savvy and leadership - to be honest the current crop are just meat heads



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2018 08:35 by TVM Rides Again.

 
Offa
Re: Eddie Jones
Offa (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 09:03
Good point, but they are worlds apart. Would a single player of the current crop make the 03 team? I am not so sure. Mako close, but it is easy to forget how good Woodman was.

 
Warr-i-ors!
Re: Eddie Jones
Warr-i-ors! (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 09:04
I single Te’o out because he’s a Warrior but yes you are right the other 14 weren’t great. I just think Te’o is one dimensional much like Jamie Roberts when he played for Wales. Easy to defend against and IMO offers very little spark in attack.

I agree wholeheartedly with TVM re a lack of leadership compared to 03. We need our Johnson, Dallaglio, Jonny, Back etc. We have very few leaders in that squad and I think that’s a huge problem for us moving forward.

 
centrethere
Re: Eddie Jones
centrethere (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 09:37
Use of 'this' and 'that' - 'that' - one use is to refer back to something.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 11:14
Need someone good on the floor

 
BrumBrum
Re: Eddie Jones
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 13:25
Just heard a really good thought.
England go in there with a game plan/strategy, but if the other team don't play along they can't or won't adapt it.
Think back to Italy, now Scotland in the breakdown & now France.
Then look at Wales, Ireland and even Scotland, they adapt we don't.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 14:06
Back row is a big mess a 6 playing at 7, a lock playing at 6 and an average number 8 in Nathan Hughes. Just makes me think what a shame it is that Kvesic never developed into the player he had the potential to be. Think it is about time Cole was sent to the bench for a few games, he gives away to many penalties.

In the backs Ford needs to be rested and Slade would be a good option to unlock the backs with Farrell moving to 10, the big worry is the lack of options at 9 coming through Care and Youngs are it really.

 
dkexile
Re: Eddie Jones
dkexile (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 16:58
A huge part of the problem in my eyes has been the lions tour.

England were winning games under Jones due to the huge work rate of our forwards.
This season our forwards have often looked second best and I believe they are tired.

I read an article which listed the amount of domestic minutes played by lions this season, even Te'o has played more than most Irish lions who have been tested for European matches, and all the English lions make up the most played players.

Without a dominant pack the weakness of our back play becomes more apparent.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Fiver (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 19:11
Interesting mention on the BBC website that Jones has never lasted more than 4 years as a coach and only really gets good results in his first year or two.

I think it is unfair to single out any of the backs as the quality of ball from the forwards was slow and often going backwards. This gave the French defence an armchair ride in regards to line speed.

The English forwards couldn't work out how to secure the ball in the way the French did. I noticed that the French 5 seemed to consistently hover in front of their tackled player, thus blocking the English attempted jackal. The referee didn't mind, therefore it must be legal.

England have no idea how to read the ref, or indeed the game. It's very similar to watching Warriors, it'll be interesting to see if it's the same next year under Duncan.

 
Eco Warrior
Re: Eddie Jones
Eco Warrior (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 13:59
awzz

 
hairyicecream
Re: Eddie Jones
wusstawizard (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 14:26
What would a combined 2003/2018 England team look like? This would be mine:

1. Mako
2. J.George
3. Vickery
4. Johnson
5. Launchbury
6. Hill
7. Back
8. Dallaglio/Billy
9. Dawson
10. Wilkinson
11. Robinson
12. Farrell
13. Greenwood
14. Watson
15. Lewsey

So 5 current, and 10 former. Although realistically the current XV would thrash the 2003 bunch at their prime, as players are so much fitter and stronger these days.

 
Offa
Re: Eddie Jones
Offa (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 15:08
My combined team:
Woodman
Thompson
Vickery
Johnson
Kay
Hill
Back
Dallaglip
Dawson
Wilkinson
Robinson
Greenwood
Tindall
Cohen
Lewsey


Billy and Faz would make the bench

 
Underdog
Re: Eddie Jones
Underdog (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 16:43
IMO, England's main problem is still tactical rather than personnel. The team are set up to clear their ball with one player, and the rest stay out ready to receive the ball from the Ford/Faz axis. What is worrying is that this has been a problem since the Italy game.

That's not to say that a few team changes wouldn't help. I think Armand has to be given a go to see if he can have am impact.

I think the SA tour has to be used to try and create more depth in some positions. The Argentina tour should be used as a template in that third and fourth choices need to get a game. What concerns me is that I think Jones will not be inclined to do this if we lose to Ireland. All the sarries Lions need a proper break for a start.

 
Villages12
Re: Eddie Jones
Villages12 (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 16:46
An interesting couple of posts (I'm referring to the last two). They're pretty much telling us that none of the current team is up to the standard of the previous 15 years.

I'm not sure that I totally agree but I am sure that Eddie Jones should go ! His record is good but he's been pretty much playing with Lancaster's team, who in my opinion was fired far too quickly. He's also being linked with the Australian job when Cheika leaves in 2019 so I don't see any loyalty being shown to England once that happens.

Now let's get on with an English Manager who isn't afraid to develop youth and leave the old brigade behind.

It's probably too late for the next World Cup now but let's move early to make us a force for the next one.

Let's give Mallender a go, he's got to be eager to prove a point and he's definitely going to be up for it ? No more non-English coaches. Or, maybe, they'll appoint Dean Ryan ?

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Eddie Jones
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 17:08
Quote:
wusstawizard
What would a combined 2003/2018 England team look like? This would be mine:
1. Mako
2. J.George
3. Vickery
4. Johnson
5. Launchbury
6. Hill
7. Back
8. Dallaglio/Billy
9. Dawson
10. Wilkinson
11. Robinson
12. Farrell
13. Greenwood
14. Watson
15. Lewsey

So 5 current, and 10 former. Although realistically the current XV would thrash the 2003 bunch at their prime, as players are so much fitter and stronger these days.

The physicality and athleticism of the game has moved on that is for sure - so I do see where you are coming from.

The trouble is that the current team have zero game sense it seems. The 03 team would out-think them in ruby terms

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 17:32
Quote:
Villages12

I'm not sure that I totally agree but I am sure that Eddie Jones should go ! His record is good but he's been pretty much playing with Lancaster's team, who in my opinion was fired far too quickly. He's also being linked with the Australian job when Cheika leaves in 2019 so I don't see any loyalty being shown to England once that happens.

Now let's get on with an English Manager who isn't afraid to develop youth and leave the old brigade behind.


This is officially insane, we have lost 3 games under Jones who has turned the team round from the shambles that was Lancaster's reign. Under Jones we at least have a game plan and while at present its not working I do believe player burnout is a factor especially from the Lions contingent in the team currently.

As for the youth development side I am unsure how many test caps Jamie George had before Jones, how about Kyle Sinckler? He is not afraid to bring uncapped players into the training squads to have a closer look at them.

As for Jones being linked with the Australia job in 2019, he has already had that job and with the bad blood between him and the Australian Union I would suggest hell would have to freeze over before the work with each other again.

On the future planning clearly Rob Baxter should be in the frame for the job when Jones departs in 2021. For me the nationally of the coach is the least important factor, the only criteria to judge them on is ability. Jones is the right man for the job to guide England into the 2019 world cup, his record has proven that.

 
Patgadd
Re: Eddie Jones
Patgadd (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 17:57
Quote:
Villages12
I am sure that Eddie Jones should go !

I say old bean, this isn't footie you know!

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Eddie Jones
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 18:06
Indeed.

The sort of reactionary flapping that will condemn England to yet another generation of floundering

 
Sutton Warrior
Re: Eddie Jones
Sutton Warrior (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 12:58
Looking at the 2 Let's pick the 2003 team" idea we seem to forget that although we won the world cup ( and that was the point of the exercise) we struggled in several of the games as our axis in mid field was not working well with a young fly half struggling with the pressure. Things only improved really when Catt got sent to mind him and offer an alternative kicker/play maker. Does that sound at all familiar?Yes, we had some great players but they didn't always work out all the issues in real time.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Eddie Jones
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 20:01
Eddie eating humble pie.

Quote:
EJ
England head coach Eddie Jones has "apologised unreservedly" for offensive comments he made about Wales and Ireland.
At a sponsors' talk in July 2017, the Australian described Wales as a "@#$%& little place" and spoke about how disappointed he was by a recent defeat by the "scummy Irish".

Classy.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Underdog
Re: Eddie Jones
Underdog (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 20:41
As with all outrageous comments made by public figures, I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt as to whether or not he was being entirely serious. Does any functioning adult really consider any country as 'scummy'?

That said, it is yet another piece of evidence to support the notion that Eddie's gob is sometimes faster than his brain.

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Eddie Jones
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 07:13
Sorry, but we like to point out that the Americans don't "Get" irony yet at the same time claim not to understand aussie humour which is often dark or self-depreciating.

The average comic can use the excuse of "wrong audience" when intended humour "bombs"

Mr Jones had no such chance as his words were lifted piecemeal and launched on social media.
I would question the motives of the original poster and the members of the press that latched onto it.

I remember climbing in Snowdonia one year and getting stuck on the three sisters during a White out. I distinctly remember at the time thinking to my self "This is a bit sh*t"

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Fiver (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 08:31
I'd love to know what proportion of people from either Wales or Ireland are actually offended by Jones' comments, especially given the context.

I'd guess that, when it comes down to it, hardly anyone actually cares. However, it sells media (used to say "sells papers"). I'd say the Scots who abused Eddie outside the train station said much more offensive things about the English, however it didn't get reported in that way.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Eddie Jones
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 09:06
Quote:
Underdog
. Does any functioning adult really consider any country as 'scummy'?

You'd be astonished....they make up a much larger proportion of the population than we'd like to believe unfortunately.

 
Freypal
Re: Eddie Jones
Freypal (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 10:29
His comments come across as incredibly arrogant more than offensive.

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Eddie Jones
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 12:38
My problem is that the video has been in the public domain for months and suddenly gets shoved to the front for public consumption by the Guardian, beeb and the rest just prior to an England Ireland International.

If it was arrogant and offensive why weren't we talking about it then ?

I'm sorry, but I'm of an age where the press presented us with the news rather than todays much more prevalent attempts at news creation.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Fiver (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 12:42
Does this mean an embarrassing story about someone else got buried down the bottom of page 23?

 
FlipFlop
Re: Eddie Jones
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 13:04
Media probably hoping he gets some Irish, "over fuelled" idiots, giving him verbal after the game on Saturday, just like he got in Manchester from alleged Scots supporters.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Eddie Jones
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 14:00
Quote:
Jones
"No excuses. I shouldn't have said what I did."

Eddie obviously doesn't know about this forum. (Sm16)



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
centrethere
Re: Eddie Jones
centrethere (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 16:33
What's the last time england lost 3 in a row

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Eddie Jones
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 16:50
2005 and 2006 I think.

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Eddie Jones
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 16:51
Sorry that’s three in a six nations champ not three in a row

 
Villages12
Re: Eddie Jones
Villages12 (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 11:38
I posted on here last week and answers came back that what I said was "officially insane" and something about being "like footie" because I dared to suggest that Eddie Jones should go.

Now one week on and three defeats in a row and nothing has changed my mind. His comments about some people not making the World Cup (a great morale booster for the squad) and needing more in depth talent to play Test Matches has been so apparent for such a long time, why not get on and fix it ? Why has he persisted in a squad that, in the main, will be past it's sell by date come the World Cup ? I fear it's too late now for 2019. He main have an overall good record but if we flop in the World Cup there can be no excuses.

We have plenty of young talent that needs International Development in time for the World Cup instead of short-term success using the old brigade.

Finally, and I'm not a Teo basher, how can Jones or anyone else expect this guy to be at his best when he's played virtually no games this season and been injured ?

We need a new coach and we need him now.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 12:53
V12, -lease name all this young talent you seem to believe we have that is ready to actually play at this level and develop and not get damaged in the making.

JP

 
Villages12
Re: Eddie Jones
Villages12 (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 13:30
JP

Did you read my post ?

Nowhere did I suggest that we had ready young talent. My point is that they should have integrated into the team squad instead of the old brigade.

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Eddie Jones
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 13:37
But if there isn’t any young talent who should he have integrated? Who is putting their hand up because I can’t see many.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 14:09
Takes a while to integrate to World Cup level not much time. Its all about strength in depth which all at Wuss know! Cant see England winning in Japan as it stands.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 14:14
I did read your post and this what you said

Quote:
We have plenty of young talent that needs International Development in time for the World Cup instead of short-term success using the old brigade.

All I asked was for you to name some of the “plenty”

JPp

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Eddie Jones
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 14:18
If the Irish can sustain their form they'll be one of the frontrunners for the Webb Ellis.

Hope they haven't peaked too early as some have said.But we need to bring new players through pronto starting with the SA tour as World Cup only 18 months away.



Eats,Shoots And Leaves

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 14:22
Quote:
Faithful_City
I did read your post and this what you said
Quote:
We have plenty of young talent that needs International Development in time for the World Cup instead of short-term success using the old brigade.

All I asked was for you to name some of the “plenty”

JPp

Takes more than 18 months to get to World Cup level. How many England games are there till then? Dozen? Its not a lot

 
Villages12
Re: Eddie Jones
Villages12 (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 16:28
JP to name a few...........

Singleton, Spencer (Ben), Slade, Devoto, Purdy, Underhill, Curry x 2, Mallinder, Clifford, Smith (M), Lozowski, Genge, Isiekwe, Woodburn.

I know that some of these are in the squad but if they don't play we will never know how they rise to the challenge. There are others that don't immediately come to mind.

If there aren't more we have to question why as our U20s, 18s etc seem to be doing well. Why aren't they transitioning to England players ? Could be that there are too many, highly paid foreign players in our Premiership ?

I fear for the future of England Rugby in 3-5 years time if we have no suitable talent that can be developed.

I repeat, it's too late for 2019 now but if we wait too long the next World Cup will be on us in 2023.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 17:10
The vast majority are in the wider squad and are already being developed as per the Argentinian tour, the England training camps and clubs giving them game time.

So what you are really saying is that Eddie is getting the prep and development right, which I agree with.

JP

 
Villages12
Re: Eddie Jones
Villages12 (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 17:23
JP

What you say is true but my major concern is that very few of them have had England game time during Eddie Jones's tenure. He has played people to keep his record looking good instead of some percentage of development in the games themselves.

Add to that his now statement of "we need an attack coach" and I find the whole thing alarming. Surely he should have known that for months.

Sorry if you disagree, but the cracks are beginning to show in his methods (or lack of them).

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 17:40
Eddie Jones first squad for his first International after Lancaster’s disastrous World Cup

Quote:

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Alex Goode (Saracens), Chris Ashton (Saracens), Jack Nowell (Exeter), Anthony Watson (Bath), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Bath; injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi, Leicester), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Sam Hill (Exeter; injury replacement for Henry Slade, Exeter) Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Danny Care (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester)

Forwards: Dan Cole (Leicester), Paul Hill (Northampton), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Henry Thomas (Bath; injury replacement for Kieran Brookes, Northampton), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley, Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Josh Beaumont (Sale), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), James Haskell (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester; injury replacement for Dave Ewers,
Exeter), Billy Vunipola (Saracens)


Recognize a few of those names and maybe read the article. How many have developed into Full England players? Not many because they have “not” developed. It is as much to do with the players desire to develop as it is for the coaches.

Full Article

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 17:50
Yes England and Jones have had a blip maybe the pressure demands of the English Premiership has not helped where it is more important NOT to lose than to win. England and France have relegation???

Interesting Article

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Eddie Jones
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 17:57
Record with England

Played 28, Won 24, lost 4!

He hast taken England from 7th to 2nd in the World Rankings.

So not bad an he will do well once again.

JP

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Eddie Jones
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 18:47
JP, I think Villages12 has a point.

If you look at Wales, they picked players like Josh, OWen Watkin, Rhys Patchell, Elliott Dee, all of whom were untested.

Conor O'Shea picked young Polledri from Glaws yesterday and he had a great game against Scotland. Ireland have also developed a load of young players.

England's approach was to pick a 34 year old when their first choice scrum half was injured. Why not Dan Robson, Will Chudley, or Ben Spencer?

Players only develop by playing, not by holding tackle bags for the first team. You won't find out how good they are unless you play them.



Whatever you do, do it safely!


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