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Patgadd
Reasons to be cheerful
Patgadd (IP Logged)
05 May, 2018 21:01
Who will forget the occasion on May 29th 2015, when Worcester were promoted to the Premiership by dint of beating Bristol in a nail-biting finish. We were convinced, as so many times before and since, that the next season would see us push away from the bottom of the league. Every season we have thought, ”next year will be different”, and every time we have been disappointed. So why should we believe that 2018/19 really will see us start to climb the table? After all, we have had an exciting new DOR before, we have had a decent 10 before and we have signed quality players before.

I believe the difference this time is a combination of factors which taken together are unprecedented. Alan Solomons brings with him a new coaching team, keeping only the clearly successful ones from the past. DR’s revival of the academy has been continued and expanded, and it is looking more promising than ever before under the guidance of Chim Gale. We’ve already see what the likes of Adams, Butler, Singleton, Shillcock and Humphreys can do and there are others waiting in the wings.

Among the senior players, younger prospects such as Schonert and not-so-young ones like Van Velze have shown not only their true class but also their loyalty, as of course have the long stayers Pennell and Arr. Meanwhile Bower, Milasinovich and Barry have proved they can be more than perennial bridesmaids.

Add the new intake to the mix and we have something we’ve never had before; strength in depth. If we are hit again by injuries – and we probably will be – we could field 7 replacement backs and still look pretty smart. We have every reason to hope that the complaints on this forum next season will be limited to protests about bar queues and the price of chips!

 
usa warrior
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
usa warrior (IP Logged)
05 May, 2018 21:42
Can’t argue with any of that!

Contentious inference that Vesty has not been successful, but one I could agree with!!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
05 May, 2018 22:48
Well precedence has failed for many seasons.

Solomens is in the driving seat now so over to him!

We've heard it all before, but strength in depth is better next season.

Coaches can have a new input.

Its a difficult league well done for surviving and now to kick on hopefully.....

Its all positive, recruitment, coaches and a winning mentality

These things take time

Dean Richards took a few seasons but its all now clicked for them

I think we are on the right path

 
dkexile
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
dkexile (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 07:33
I hope so and I do feel optimistic about next season.

However, I still think we're weak in the forwards I'm not convinced the second row or backrow is good enough and the front row is only an injury to schonert away from looking vunerable.

Still if Kitchener steps up and our new forwards are as good as we hope we certainly look to have backs who can challenge almost anyone.

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 08:37
Agree about second row and we are not the same without Nick. Also not sure we have replaced our only two dominant ball carriers but time will tell. The difference next year has to be the coaches. Can they finally get our mentality right and get each player playing to the best of their ability. If they can’t we will be relegated as there will be 12 good teams next year.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 08:58
WD has it right.

This is all about the top 2”.

The players are good enough, the team performance too often is not. The new coaching team, and some of the performances since Solly arrived, give me cause for real optimism.

Looking forward to next season already.

 
LiveInHope
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
LiveInHope (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 10:46
Looking forward to next year as well.
The squad looks a lot better & deeper with the exception of lock until our big NZ arrives in Oct/Nov. The depth in the backs is very good, but less so in the forwards.
Think this year injuries hit us hard, hopefully next season we will have a less in the same position at the same time.
Will be interesting to see who in the academy make the step up.

 
Underdog
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Underdog (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 10:54
The academy forwards need to have a similar year to the one Adams, Shillcock, Singleton and Humphreys had last season. A few of them making the grade will add depth and a sense of excitement.

I'm also looking forward to next season. There have been some really promising performances this season, but no consistency. It's my hope that we'll get impetus from a new coaching setup but the players will get the consistency they need from Solly .

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 11:11
12 good teams?

Quins and Saints struggling, Bristol 1st season back is always going to be tough as you come to terms with the speed and intensity.

We have to be aiming to be above all 3.

JP

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 11:47
Also we can't be too down about yesterday.Not sure Saints fans would agree,obviously,but we were in the ascendancy until the double injury.I believe we would 've won otherwise.
The re-shuffle changed our game plan somewhat and two of their tries were gifts.
True,Saints took their chances but I think they had lady luck on their side.

But a great day out all the same,best ground I've been to after ours,fantastic fans.
I'm positive about next season!

Edit: Must remind myself to get a better seat of if go next season.Sat in Tetley Stand 2 yrs ago but sat in corner yesterday.Glad I had my binoculars!



Eats,Shoots And Leaves



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 08:38 by w4rriorz1980.

 
Underdog
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Underdog (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 12:02
Quote:
Faithful_City
12 good teams?
Quins and Saints struggling, Bristol 1st season back is always going to be tough as you come to terms with the speed and intensity.

We have to be aiming to be above all 3.

JP

All 3 are unknown quantities, though it may turn out the way you predict. Both of the former two teams will be under new management and both have decent squads that are demoralised at the moment. Bristol will struggle to adapt as everyone does, but they have better players than last time and a wilier DoR. Once they gel, I predict them to be the best promoted side since us.

 
Malvern Man
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Malvern Man (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 12:03
I agree we would have won without the injuries. Jonny Arr is a decent replacement for FH, but the back line lost its edge when we ran out of centres, in attack and particularly defence. Marco Mama was terrific, outstanding in a good back row.

The Northampton supporters around us said that they're losing something like 15 players, but the only quality replacement is Dan Biggar the fly half. In their place I'd be worried about next season. I cannot understand why they are letting Foden go. He always plays well against Worcester.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Fiver (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 13:22
Biggar isn't Saints' only quality replacement, check out Taqele Naiyaravoro currently playing for the Waratahs. He is a try scoring beast of a winger, bigger than most of the forwards.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 13:37
Quote:
Fiver
Biggar isn't Saints' only quality replacement, check out Taqele Naiyaravoro currently playing for the Waratahs. He is a try scoring beast of a winger, bigger than most of the forwards.
Nadolo-esqe?

 
Underdog
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Underdog (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 16:21
I'm not sure Biggar is a player I'd want here. He's great at what he does, and there's no question he's got willpower and competitive spirit by the bucketload, but IMO he's a major reason Wales find it hard to play a more expansive style, or really any other style but his. He reminds me a lot of Farrell before he added better distribution to his game.

 
dkexile
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
dkexile (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 20:04
Quote:
Faithful_City
12 good teams?
Quins and Saints struggling, Bristol 1st season back is always going to be tough as you come to terms with the speed and intensity.

We have to be aiming to be above all 3.

JP

We should be aiming to finish above them, but you can't consider teams with players such as marler, sinkler, robshaw, care and brown weak

 
kiddykid
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
kiddykid (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 21:06
My view of what could happen next season is this.

We have a DOR who has several months of Sixways experience under his belt. He has two members of his coaching team who have several seasons at Sixays under their belt......a sprinkling of new coaches will freshen things up. Yes, we have a new head coach but The DOR will retain some continuity. We have some new players but not wholesale changes.

Briz have signed some new players but we all know that the step-up is tremendous and they will NOT find it easy. Remember, Oirish lost only one game last season!! Their coaching team is in place but it is the Prem.

Saints have a new DOR coming in and a new Coach who will undoubtedly want to bring in his own guys, and some of the current back room team are leaving. Their new player signings are slow in coming in as far as I know. There seems to be an awful lot of 'settling in' to be done at Frankins Gardens.

Quins are in a similar vein as Saints - only worse! JK is going, Nick Eater receives mixed reviews, Danny Care is letting a few secrets out and they continue to struggle to fill the void created by providing several players for the England squad. The Stoop seems a very unhappy place to be at the moment.

So, overall, of the teams mentioned here I think we are best placed to do well. IF we can get off to a good start we are very well placed to push on as we look to be having the strongest squad for several seasons. We need luck with injuries and we won't be badly hit with international call-ups. Add in Weir and Lance at 10, FH being SA-free, and Mama being available all season ALL we need is an extra lock or two and Inthink that Biz, Wuins and Saints will,be looking UP at us.

Does anyone agree

 
BrumBrum
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
BrumBrum (IP Logged)
06 May, 2018 21:48
I think it all depends on the " injury fairy".
Think we are a lot stronger in the backs than this year just finished, but weaker in the forwards, but with some interesting locks coming through from the Accademy.
We finally have flyhalves & if FH can stay fit, then great. We all Arr but he is not a FH.

Can't believe Saints don't have more players coming in & Bristol will be either terrible or amazing.
Hopefully we can be 2018/19's Newcastle.

 
usa warrior
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
usa warrior (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 08:34
Newcastle had several false starts over the past few years, but always survived, which we have done. Continuity has helped them massively and I agree with the above that we have that going into next season with a group of players who are more confident than any time over the last few seasons.

Similar to Hougaard, Lance brings a confidence to the team and has the ability to make those around him better. I don't believe that they played together even once! I expect Weir will be similar in that regard.

 
Simba
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Simba (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 08:54
I would love to be able to share optimistic for next season but I have been disappointed to many times in the past.
Quins will be much better next season, remember they have a large number of internationals in their team, who have been playing alo st non stop for a long time now so must be exhausted.
Saints have shown in recent weeks they are able to turn it on when the occasion calls for it.
Bristol have recruited really well with players currently or recently playing top tier rugby. Pat Lam is a quality coach whom the players respect (Vui leaving us in the premier for them in the championship).

Don’t get me wrong, I really do want wuss to kick on from this season, but no matter how well we have played the table does not lie. We were 11th out of 12, avoiding relegation only because Irish were so poor. That will not be the case next season.

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 08:57
USA they certainly did against Tigers. Along with Mills they were outstanding. Never seen us attack with such confidence. In fact we were sat in the stands in disbelief for most of the game. Looking forward to more of that next season.

 
BridgnorthBaloo
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
BridgnorthBaloo (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 09:33
Sorry but both Saints and Quins were a blip this year with the wrong man at the helm. With some of Saints signings and Boyd coming in I would be amazed if they are not top 6. Quins cannot be as bad again with their squad. I hope we are mid-table but with our squad compared to others it is likely to be bottom 3. Sorry but unless Solly can get 98% + (concentration and quality) out of the squad for every game then it will be bottom 3,

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 09:34
I think the Premiership 18/19 will be one of the hardest seasons yet.
As eluded to Bristol could stutter at the start of the season but will be a good team mid late season.
Saints can still play well and Quins players are fairly worn out with the Internationals.

Warriors must start the season well and keep it going all season.
The new coaches will bring a new mentality we hope.

Im personally not sure the front 5 depth match our back line and hope to be proved wrong.

There wont be a weak link like LI its going to be a hard season but hopefully injury free to key players.

It wiill take a big effort to be mid table but hopefully something we will be up to mentally and physically.

 
Patgadd
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Patgadd (IP Logged)
08 May, 2018 11:23
Here's a reason to be cheerful: apparently we scored 1.1 ties per game on average before Solly's arrival, since when it has gone up to (I think) 1.94. Add to that the fact that we had no kickers at the start of the season, and I believe we can expect better next year.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 06:58
This season 54 tries last season 56, with 22 games a season I m confused with your tries per game.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
ARFC Warrior (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 07:51
I'm guessing that Pat has split the season pre-Solly and post-Solly, not comparing last season to this season.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 08:18
Gold did 1.5 seasons JP, Solly has only done half of one.

 
Eco Warrior
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Eco Warrior (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 08:23
My impression - not based on data or statistics, but I'm not going down that road - is that in the Solly era yellow cards are much less prevalent. Am I right?

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 08:28
Quote:
Eco Warrior
My impression - not based on data or statistics, but I'm not going down that road - is that in the Solly era yellow cards are much less prevalent. Am I right?
Thinking about it out discipline has improved exponentially!
Before the yellow v Saints which was harsh I'm struggling to remember our last sin bin.Definitely longer since a red!



Eats,Shoots And Leaves

 
Patgadd
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Patgadd (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 08:32
I read the figure on Twitter, but in the interests of accuracy I've just worked them out (NB this is premiership only - to include all the cups would make my head hurt too much):

Pre-Solly 7 tries from 6 matches
Post-Solly 46 tries from 17 matches

Much better figures than I first stated, in fact; someone else can work out the percentages, but marginally over one per match before his arrival against well over two per match after. Please don't point out that there were other factors; of course there were, but whichever way you look at it, the future looks, if not rosey, a darned sight rosier than before.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
ARFC Warrior (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 08:40
Quote:
Patgadd
I read the figure on Twitter, but in the interests of accuracy I've just worked them out (NB this is premiership only - to include all the cups would make my head hurt too much):
Pre-Solly 7 tries from 6 matches
Post-Solly 46 tries from 17 matches


23 match season then.

(Sm128)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 09:15
You lot are making my brain hurt.

The season’s finished, the sun is shining, bug ger off and do something else for a few weeks.

Pat can start by packing up all his red/pink/scarlet trousers and consigning them to the various charity shops around where he lives.

I have just read in the Sunday Telegraph (so it must be correct) that in certain circles the only people properly entitled to wear red trousers are those who have navigated across The Atlantic Ocean by sail. Perhaps he has!

As to the precise number, or fractions of a number, of trys Wuss scored pre or post Solly’s arrival, I honestly can’t get excited.

We were 11th, we would have been 10th had our match points for/against difference been 9 better, so if we want to pick over the bones of last season, let’s tot up how many place kicks could have turned that around had they been scored instead of being missed. Pre and Post Solly if you like.

Me, I’m off to mow a lawn, or something.

Edit.....just re-read that, and the answer is obvious.

3 penalties, 4.5 conversions, or several combinations of the two.

There....done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2018 09:18 by TeflonTed.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 12:14
Ah well...if Penalties had been scored, that would have lead to a kick off and not a 22 - then a different set of events may have transpired in a new scenario.....and then we are into the territory of entire alternate universes of different outcomes...and flapping butterfly wings causing hurricanes sending Patgads multi-coloured strides flying off the washing line.... so it turns out had Jamie Shillcock been any more accurate it would have cost Patgad a fortune in new trousers - and that is at least a reason for Pat to be cheerful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2018 12:16 by TVM Rides Again.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 15:49
On the discipline front we have the 2nd or 3rd lowest pen count this season. I am sure I heard that on the Saints game commentary



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Patgadd
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Patgadd (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 21:44
We have the lowest number of yellow cards this season. Here's the list:

1) Harlequins 15
2) Northampton 13
3) Leicester 12
4) Sale 11
5) Bath 10
Average 9.2
6=) London Irish 8
6=) Newcastle 8
6=) Wasps 8
9=) Gloucester 7
9=) Saracens 7
11) Exeter 6
12) Worcester 5

 
usa warrior
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
usa warrior (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 21:46
Quite amazing really, considering previous seasons.

 
Patgadd
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Patgadd (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 23:11
The stats don't tell us much; last season:

Sale 14
Tigers 13
Bristol 10
Wasps 9
Quins 9
Worcs 8
Falcons 8
Saracens 8
Glaws 7
Saints 7
Exeter 5
Bath 5

 
Abmatt
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Abmatt (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 21:38
Quote:
usa warrior
Quite amazing really, considering previous seasons.

I’m shocked tbh

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
10 May, 2018 22:33
How many of those Quins 15 yellows belong to messrs Matthews,Marler and Sinckler?!
(Sm159)



Eats,Shoots And Leaves



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2018 22:35 by w4rriorz1980.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Fiver (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 08:22
The top three this season were the three most under performing clubs. So no shock there. Quins, in particular, spent so much of their 80 minutes either arguing with the referee, or taking out their frustrations on opposing players I think they forgot about actually playing the game.

It would be interesting to see a list of those yellow cards issued for thuggery, as opposed to technicalities like off-sides and deliberate knock ons.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 08:45
Fiver, if you dig around the RFU offie under “governance” details of all citing and red cards can easily be found.

For example, Quins this season.....

Sinckler, contact with the eye area
Chisholm, tip tackle
Marler, striking an opponent.

Yellows are more hard to analyse, statbunker gives the numbers easily enough, but not the reasons.


Anyone know an easy way to see “yellows by offence” listings?

Edit... links failed!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2018 08:46 by TeflonTed.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 10:46
Quins Yellow cards all competitions

Mike Brown 2
Alofa Alofa 1
lewis Boyce 1
Danny Care 3
DEMETRI CATRAKILIS 1
James Chisholm 3
Will Collier 1
Joe Gray 1
Joe Marler 1
Charlie Matthews 1
Charlie Piper 1
Kyle Sinkler 2
Marcus Smith 1
Tim Swiel 1
Charlie Walker 1



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MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 11:45
But we don’t know how many were for “thuggery” (Fiver’s term) rather than for technical offences.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Reasons to be cheerful
Butthead (IP Logged)
11 May, 2018 17:27
That's easy! All the forwards' cards would clearly be for thuggery. The backs' would have been for technical offences (probably accidentally getting involved in a ruck and panicking)


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