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MESSAGES->author
Ball Carriers
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 10:53
What are they and do we actually need them?

We certainly need a player to be able to break the gain line from set play AND from the breakdown.

We had Denton and Spencer last season, who have we got this year who is a genuine premiership ball carrier - line breaker?

The only 2 I can place near that capability are Fao’siliva and Taufete’e, neither of whom are starters.

JP

 
usa warrior
Re: Ball Carriers
usa warrior (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 10:56
Suspect we'll see Faosiliva start this week.

We improved once he came on as we could be more direct with our attack.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 11:05
Does GJ not count as a ball carrier?



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

 
Warrior7
Re: Ball Carriers
Warrior7 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 11:23
IMO we do have ball carriers, but they are quicker and more evasive rather than bosh merchants. However this season I don't think we have used them very effectively so far, so I'd agree we need some better ball carriers to fit the current gameplan.
Bristol don't seem to have a massive pack at the moment but Pat Lam's gameplan is working well - putting them on weak shoulders and into half gaps, which IMO is what we should be doing.
I'm not a coach though so who knows if any of that is right.

 
usa warrior
Re: Ball Carriers
usa warrior (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 11:36
What is noticeable, and worked well Sunday, is that when we start offloading with those lighter forwards it causes some chaos and distorts the defenses.

We did that against Wasps well and the second half on Sunday. That has to be in the game from the start though I feel.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 11:43
Teo is a ball carrier.

Agree we don't want to get caught in a head to head forward game we are quite lightweight, quick off loads linking the back line.

We don't seem to be great at the breakdown and on the floor so keep everything quick and alive. Imho (for what its worth)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 11:47
GJ is not a ball carrier PE in the hard physical sense, he does not attract and commit in tacklers. He is great in support when there is a gap to hit.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 11:52
Mama

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 12:14
Mama definitely

JP

 
usa warrior
Re: Ball Carriers
usa warrior (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 12:29
Quote:
knightstemplar
Teo is a ball carrier.
Agree we don't want to get caught in a head to head forward game we are quite lightweight, quick off loads linking the back line.

We don't seem to be great at the breakdown and on the floor so keep everything quick and alive. Imho (for what its worth)

In actual fact the "rucks won" stat for the last two games has been excellent! Near 100% in both instances if I recall.

We don't fare so well when runners get isolated however, but that is a different matter.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 12:49
Quote:
usa warrior
Quote:
knightstemplar
Teo is a ball carrier.
Agree we don't want to get caught in a head to head forward game we are quite lightweight, quick off loads linking the back line.

We don't seem to be great at the breakdown and on the floor so keep everything quick and alive. Imho (for what its worth)

In actual fact the "rucks won" stat for the last two games has been excellent! Near 100% in both instances if I recall.

We don't fare so well when runners get isolated however, but that is a different matter.

Fair enough it didn't appear that way on sight alone

 
konverted
Re: Ball Carriers
konverted (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 12:54
Always thought that Matt Cox was pretty good in this role too................but under used in my opionion, any news when he might be back ?

 
Whispering_Death
Re: Ball Carriers
Whispering_Death (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 14:18
GJ will carry all day, he got through a huge amount of work at Sale but I don’t think he once won the hit and got us on the front foot. The only person who did that was Fos and to a lesser degree Joe. It’s no coincidence our attack started to function better when these chaps gave us go forward with Sale marching backwards in defence. Problem is Fos also dropped the ball twice.

 
usa warrior
Re: Ball Carriers
usa warrior (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 14:24
And Joe's lineout didn't function particularly.

 
Warrior7
Re: Ball Carriers
Warrior7 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 18:31
On another note with the performances of Milasinovich and Mudariki in the A league and Kerrod off the bench, could we see Schonert slip down the pecking order a bit? All of those could be used as ball carriers in heavy traffic, or as was used quite effectively 2 seasons ago maybe using Milasinovich at loosehead?
Ted Hill to potentially come in too, and also Carl Kirwan is a decent rumbler if he can string some games together.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ball Carriers
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 18:43
GJ made 20 carries against Sale and made just 20m. In comparison hos opposite number Beaumont made 4 carries and made 20m.

 
Ake1985
Re: Ball Carriers
Ake1985 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 18:56
Quote:
konverted
Always thought that Matt Cox was pretty good in this role too................but under used in my opionion, any news when he might be back ?

My thoughts as well! Think he is a very effective ball carrier. Always impressed every time he plays and I don't really understand why he never seems to get anywhere the 1st 15!

 
halfback09
Re: Ball Carriers
halfback09 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 19:11
We don't fare so well when runners get isolated however, but that is a different matter.[/quote]
I don’t think any team fares well when their runners get isolated, problem is we let our runners get isolated.

 
usa warrior
Re: Ball Carriers
usa warrior (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 19:39
Several of those were CP running from deep. Probably a poor choice.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ball Carriers
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 21:00
Pennell has a tendency to run into contact and not look up and thus get isolated. He improved this part of his game a lot last season but was unfortunately back to his old self vs Sale.

 
Warrior7
Re: Ball Carriers
Warrior7 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 22:03
There wasn't a lot of choice one of the times - also has to rely on a pack that is often slow to get back

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
Fiver (IP Logged)
13 September, 2018 08:10
From what I've seen so far this season we'd only get turned over if we had big ball carriers as the support isn't there. I don't know if this is due to poor organisation, poor fitness, or (unlikely) poor attitude.

I'd like to see Cox given more of a chance. He has so much pace that if he can burst through and make some yards the only support he'd get would be from Josh or Bryce.

I saw some games in the Super Rugby last season and the Lions had a 6 with that kind of pace. It caused the opposition so much trouble, but he did get isolated at times.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ball Carriers
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
13 September, 2018 08:30
Agree with sauce re CP. it’s always been his weakest point for me. Far too often he sets off on a zig zag run and gets caught and isolated, when he had plenty of time to kick initially.

Nobody is perfect, otherwise the guy is sound and I’m glad he’s here!

 
Underdog
Re: Ball Carriers
Underdog (IP Logged)
13 September, 2018 10:24
I was banging on about the forwards doing more in attack during the match and I will again.

One out runners work when used as one of several attacking strategies. Two forwards running parralel lines that could both receive the ball works, as do little pop passes to the next man. There were points in the game that you could pause the play at each ruck and comfortably predict who was going to get the ball. That's too easy and so it's not about strength at the ruck for me, as we're actually good at that.

Contrast this with Cipriani putting Ackerman through a hole against Bath. What's frustrating is this is not new for us: we play that ball with Olivier and Teo a lot, especially off the lineout. I'm sure our forwards are up to it in open play.

 
Offa
Re: Ball Carriers
Offa (IP Logged)
13 September, 2018 14:21
I think Marco is a terrific player, and possibly not yet fully up to speed, but I am not convinced that he is a destructive ball carrier.

Was struck at the weekend by what a big unit Pierce is, but as we well know, that too does not always equate to being a big carrier (But he is nonetheless one of our standout performers so far).

I am with most on here: Foti, Joe and Ben are our main carriers. I also agree that our line-up worsened when Nial and Pierce went off.


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