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MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 12:17
it is £50 per supporter per game -AVERAGE some will pay less some will pay more(food and drink) not difficult

JP

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 12:21
So letís say the ticket is £25, youíre going to need me to eat a lot of burgers to earn another £25 of profit.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 12:23
Quote:
Big T 15
Fair comment that WRSC are a number volunteers, putting in the hours alongside their 9-5's. Respect that.
It's just in professional sport, owners and management can make some dreadful decisions and having a unified, independent supporter group at the table to challenge is a necessity.

Currently, the supporters club (for me) is not independent and is an extension of the 'Warriors' management and we need more than that.

Again, no offence to those volunteers at all!

Then form an independent Supporters club/group.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg Warriors Rugby Supporters Club http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/130/130_0_1418121803.jpg

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 12:35
JP, there are costs associated with extra supporters. If you have an extra 1,000 per game, you will need extra stewards, bar and catering staff. The food and drink also has a marginal cost, so spend on that isn't all profit.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 12:46
Where are the £25 tickets there certainly insnt another 3,000 of them plus all the home European and prem cup games thats another 6 home games 6000 times whatever it costs.

To work on average of £50 for 12 homes games is not bad. Remember a certain percentage will also be dinning and taking boxes.

The new owners have to set and work towards increasing per person spend.

JP

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 12:53
Itís madeuponomics JP....

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 13:04
Whatever you wish to call it...

The new owners have to have a target and i know that i am not far away from the number the club uses.

They must drive to gat an average increase of £5 per customer uplift

That should raise another £500k

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Butthead (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 13:55
Quote:
Faithful_City

They must drive to gat an average increase of £5 per customer uplift

Previously the tactic was seemingly to add most of that to the price of a pint!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Abberley (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 14:35
Quote:
Faithful_City

It has to be worth £500k to £1million for naming rights


According to this:

[www.express.co.uk]

whilst Manchester United may be valued at £26m, the Baggies' Hawthorns is less than £1m and Huddersfield £0.3m

Don't know where Sixways would be on the scale, but I suspect £0.5m might be a tad optimistic?

Edit:

According to this:
[www.express.co.uk]
it would appear that shirt sponsorship is more valued than stadium naming rights?

I think I have read recently that Jed McCrory has indicated that Greene King might be persuaded to increase their shirt sponsorship from £175 - which would imply stadium naming rights less than £100k ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2018 15:04 by Abberley.

 
Rinkadink
Re: New Owners
Rinkadink (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 16:19
Quote:
Faithful_City
it is £50 per supporter per game -AVERAGE some will pay less some will pay more(food and drink) not difficult
JP
I think the average spend is roughly £5 per supporter on top of ticket price at Bristol and is considered very good. How are you working out £50 average spend (even if you included ticket price in that) for each one of your supporters?

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 16:28
With the power of wishful thinking Rinkadink...

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 16:43
Quote:
Abberley
I think I have read recently that Jed McCrory has indicated that Greene King might be persuaded to increase their shirt sponsorship from £175 - which would imply stadium naming rights less than £100k ?

Didn't Bill say that Greene King had indicated a willingness to accept a less prominent shirt position without reducing their £175k, thereby freeing up the opportunity for a major new shirt sponsor at more than £175k?



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 16:46
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Abberley
I think I have read recently that Jed McCrory has indicated that Greene King might be persuaded to increase their shirt sponsorship from £175 - which would imply stadium naming rights less than £100k ?

Didn't Bill say that Greene King had indicated a willingness to accept a less prominent shirt position without reducing their £175k, thereby freeing up the opportunity for a major new shirt sponsor at more than £175k?

This is what the article says. Not sure I understand why GK would offer this though...

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 16:59
Quote:
Freypal
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Abberley
I think I have read recently that Jed McCrory has indicated that Greene King might be persuaded to increase their shirt sponsorship from £175 - which would imply stadium naming rights less than £100k ?

Didn't Bill say that Greene King had indicated a willingness to accept a less prominent shirt position without reducing their £175k, thereby freeing up the opportunity for a major new shirt sponsor at more than £175k?

This is what the article says. Not sure I understand why GK would offer this though...

Perhaps the going rate for main shirt sponsor is above £175k. Perhaps GK said that all they wanted to commit was £175k and they were happy to have a less prominent position but we had no one willing to pay more? Having the words "Rent this space" on the front of the shirt might have looked a tad tacky, so we went with GK instead?



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
beav1s (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 17:30
Quote:
neiljk
What was the end game at Swindon?
Luckily that never materialised because McCrory made the mistake of giving his money mark Lee Power an option to buy the club. Power realised what was happening and exercised this option. McCrory tried to renege on this and it went to a very ugly court Battle during which the judge said he found it very hard to believe anything McCrory said. Power won the case and still runs the club. McCrory slunk away to attempt his dealings elsewhere which have been detailed.

 
centrethere
Re: New Owners
centrethere (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 19:12
love the last sentence beav1s

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 19:59
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Freypal
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Abberley
I think I have read recently that Jed McCrory has indicated that Greene King might be persuaded to increase their shirt sponsorship from £175 - which would imply stadium naming rights less than £100k ?

Didn't Bill say that Greene King had indicated a willingness to accept a less prominent shirt position without reducing their £175k, thereby freeing up the opportunity for a major new shirt sponsor at more than £175k?

This is what the article says. Not sure I understand why GK would offer this though...

Perhaps the going rate for main shirt sponsor is above £175k. Perhaps GK said that all they wanted to commit was £175k and they were happy to have a less prominent position but we had no one willing to pay more? Having the words "Rent this space" on the front of the shirt might have looked a tad tacky, so we went with GK instead?

I get that but I'd read it as GK agreeing to have a smaller, less prominent space for the same money mid contract. Probably me misreading the article.

 
Marley66
Re: New Owners
Marley66 (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 20:25
For those of you questioning the role of the Supporters Club I can assure that I have been in regular contact with the club regarding this matter and the lack of statement from the new owners.

My contact details have been passed to Ged McCrory, at his request, and I am expecting to be able to sit down with him soon.....

I can also confirm that we are NOT an extension of the club; the Supporters Club was moved under the clubs umbrella during Charlie Little's reign but things did not move in the direction he probably anticipated. We are now linked with the Season Ticket but in reality we welcome ALL supporters of the club and work as a not for profit organisation. Any monies made from our events or bus raffles are donated to charity or for the upkeep of our branded items. We are a nice mix of the supporter group and provide the club with honest,vocal opinions and comment!

I have been at Sixways on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and today working on the new signage for the Clubhouse Bar - our new home - so please come in for a chat. BT Sport will be in there on Sunday so it would nice to see as many of you as possible just to reassure them that WE are here to STAY!

There was a lot of activity with new faces being shown around but I would ask you all to be patient, as you have been over the years, stop tying yourselves in knots trying to second guess what is going to happen. Once we know; then we can ask the questions.

Kind regards,

Bob Low

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 20:50
I donít think anyone is second guessing anything.

In the absence of anything meaningful from the club whatsoever, weíve been following the paper trail of the new structure. In doing that itís established some of the entities supplying the funding, the fact that most of the board of trading have resigned and that the P share seems to have been offered as a guarantee including in the event of relegation.

Weíre not all going to sit here quietly until someone deigns to speak to us.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: New Owners
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 22:00
Quote:
Marley66
For those of you questioning the role of the Supporters Club I can assure that I have been in regular contact with the club regarding this matter and the lack of statement from the new owners.
My contact details have been passed to Ged McCrory, at his request, and I am expecting to be able to sit down with him soon.....

I can also confirm that we are NOT an extension of the club; the Supporters Club was moved under the clubs umbrella during Charlie Little's reign but things did not move in the direction he probably anticipated. We are now linked with the Season Ticket but in reality we welcome ALL supporters of the club and work as a not for profit organisation. Any monies made from our events or bus raffles are donated to charity or for the upkeep of our branded items. We are a nice mix of the supporter group and provide the club with honest,vocal opinions and comment!

I have been at Sixways on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and today working on the new signage for the Clubhouse Bar - our new home - so please come in for a chat. BT Sport will be in there on Sunday so it would nice to see as many of you as possible just to reassure them that WE are here to STAY!

There was a lot of activity with new faces being shown around but I would ask you all to be patient, as you have been over the years, stop tying yourselves in knots trying to second guess what is going to happen. Once we know; then we can ask the questions.

Kind regards,

Bob Low
Thanks Bob.


Eats,Shoots And Leaves

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 22:14
Quote:
Freypal
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Freypal
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
Abberley
I think I have read recently that Jed McCrory has indicated that Greene King might be persuaded to increase their shirt sponsorship from £175 - which would imply stadium naming rights less than £100k ?

Didn't Bill say that Greene King had indicated a willingness to accept a less prominent shirt position without reducing their £175k, thereby freeing up the opportunity for a major new shirt sponsor at more than £175k?

This is what the article says. Not sure I understand why GK would offer this though...

Perhaps the going rate for main shirt sponsor is above £175k. Perhaps GK said that all they wanted to commit was £175k and they were happy to have a less prominent position but we had no one willing to pay more? Having the words "Rent this space" on the front of the shirt might have looked a tad tacky, so we went with GK instead?

I get that but I'd read it as GK agreeing to have a smaller, less prominent space for the same money mid contract. Probably me misreading the article.

I don't think you did misread the article: it also seemed to me that GK were prepared to agree a smaller, less prominent space, mid contract, as you say. I was just trying to put forward a hypothesis (ok, complete guess) as to why they might do that.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
05 October, 2018 22:18
Quote:
Marley66
For those of you questioning the role of the Supporters Club I can assure that I have been in regular contact with the club regarding this matter and the lack of statement from the new owners.
My contact details have been passed to Ged McCrory, at his request, and I am expecting to be able to sit down with him soon.....

I can also confirm that we are NOT an extension of the club; the Supporters Club was moved under the clubs umbrella during Charlie Little's reign but things did not move in the direction he probably anticipated. We are now linked with the Season Ticket but in reality we welcome ALL supporters of the club and work as a not for profit organisation. Any monies made from our events or bus raffles are donated to charity or for the upkeep of our branded items. We are a nice mix of the supporter group and provide the club with honest,vocal opinions and comment!

I have been at Sixways on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and today working on the new signage for the Clubhouse Bar - our new home - so please come in for a chat. BT Sport will be in there on Sunday so it would nice to see as many of you as possible just to reassure them that WE are here to STAY!

There was a lot of activity with new faces being shown around but I would ask you all to be patient, as you have been over the years, stop tying yourselves in knots trying to second guess what is going to happen. Once we know; then we can ask the questions.

Kind regards,

Bob Low

Thanks Bob and I'll look forward to hearing from you once you've had a chance to speak to Ged.

In the meantime, in the absence of any statement from the club, as Neil says I will continue to keep an eye on what's happening at Companies House and post it up, so that people at least have some info about what's happening.

If that helps you to ask some pertinent questions, all well and good.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
beav1s (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 00:21
Do you lot really imagine McCrory really cares what the supporters club has to say? He has hit his jackpot here and this is how Worcester Warriors will die, to the grumbling about fairness and what is right for the club.

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 06:06
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
I don't think you did misread the article: it also seemed to me that GK were prepared to agree a smaller, less prominent space, mid contract, as you say. I was just trying to put forward a hypothesis (ok, complete guess) as to why they might do that.

Ah ok. You may well be right!

 
yellow450
Re: New Owners
Yeller (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 06:39
Quote:
beav1s
Do you lot really imagine McCrory really cares what the supporters club has to say? He has hit his jackpot here and this is how Worcester Warriors will die, to the grumbling about fairness and what is right for the club.

Quite right Beav1s. Also, it would seem on reflection that Greg Allen and Bill Bolsover were adamant that the McCrory consortium was who they wanted to sell to regardless of any other offers. This consortium does not have a penny to its collective names and are buying it with secured funds (i.e. not theirs so no risk). As it is not their money or their risk, they have nothing to lose and would pay the full amount up front to Greg Allen.

Compare this to the Edward Griffiths bid, of which we have no detail. I am guessing that there would have been objectives to grow/improve the rugby side of the club rather than an attempt to make a quick quid. This may have meant that any proposed purchase may have been subject to certain conditions and instalments - this is all merely guesswork on my part.

Therefore, your point about McCrory et al not caring for the club or its future could also be put squarely at Greg Allen and Bill Bolsover's doors and all the nonsense about the right owner for the future of Worcester Warriors was bullsh1t of the highest order...absolutely heartless.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 07:06
I am mystified after 7 days there is no official statement from the Consortium.

I have read in interview style from the WN and BB that Gus is still Managing Director and Cecil is President. According to legal public records this is not the case both have resigned from the board.

How can you have a Director resign from the board and still be a Managing Director?

There is no statement from Pope who I have read is the main funder. There is also no statement from Seymour who is also part of the Consortium with rugby expertise, which I have been told, is very usefull to the future.

To dispell any concerns, by supporters and the big rugby revenue stream, on who holds the shares and who is doing exactly what to make sure Warriors is a continued success is/was a necessity.

I feel its quite disrespectful.

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 07:38
Agree KT. The silence is deafening. The fact that not one of them has bothered to even write a short statement tells it's own story.

I would hope that in any meeting with supporters or journalists that pertinent questions can be asked. Ie funding sources. Roles of all the consortium. Loan secured against p share etc.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 07:57
Quote:
Freypal
Agree KT. The silence is deafening. The fact that not one of them has bothered to even write a short statement tells it's own story.
I would hope that in any meeting with supporters or journalists that pertinent questions can be asked. Ie funding sources. Roles of all the consortium. Loan secured against p share etc.

Most importantly what finance is in place NOW to negate the continual seasonable loss to make Warriors exist and make premiership rugby continue in the short/mid term.

(All I've read is we are looking for a big sponsor!)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
beav1s (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 08:03
Quote:
knightstemplar
I am mystified after 7 days there is no official statement from the Consortium.
I have read in interview style from the WN and BB that Gus is still Managing Director and Cecil is President. According to legal public records this is not the case both have resigned from the board.

How can you have a Director resign from the board and still be a Managing Director?

There is no statement from Pope who I have read is the main funder. There is also no statement from Seymour who is also part of the Consortium with rugby expertise, which I have been told, is very usefull to the future.

To dispell any concerns, by supporters and the big rugby revenue stream, on who holds the shares and who is doing exactly what to make sure Warriors is a continued success is/was a necessity.

I feel its quite disrespectful.
The "consortium" is just a bunch of guys McCrory pulled together to make the bid look viable. Get an ex pro in to make it look like he has guidance from someone who knows the game. He did it at Swindon. Brought in Lee Power, ex Norwich player amongst other teams. As I've said before his mistake there was Power was also the guy who fronted the money to look like they had the means and pass the due diligence. Luckily for Swindon Power actually cared about the game and didn't want to see a club go under. Just look at the language from Bolsover in the WN pieces. He "believes", he "thinks", he "doesn't know". He has not been made party to McCrory's intentions. He's just the patsy being rolled out by the club. McCrory will release a statement, once he has mastered the crayon, and it will be full of promises and hyperbole. He is not a criminal mastermind, there no complicated scheme here. What is out there on the readily accessible information about his companies is what is going on.If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a @#$%& duck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2018 08:05 by beav1s.

 
A38
Re: New Owners
A38 (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 08:21
Quote:
knightstemplar
How can you have a Director resign from the board and still be a Managing Director?

I must admit to not having read into the detail of the company structures pre and post the sale but one must remember that each structure had / has a number of companies in it and each will have its own board of directors.

So, hypothetically, the share capital of company X, say, is owned by company A. Company A sells its shares in X to Company B.

Mr XYZ is Managing Director of company X and continues in that role post sale.

However he was also a director of company A from which he now resigns, there being no reason for him to stay.

Actually all this detail is the principal reason I have not bothered to follow the published corporate information, such as it is. What happens over the next few months will happen. We have very little control over it.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 08:25
By not being on the board of directors they save themselves being liable for any debts incurred.

So possible a good move by Gus and Cecil.

JP

 
Abmatt
Re: New Owners
Abmatt (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 08:36
I think Saturday will be my last game at 6-ways. I have mulled this over since the announcement and believe the club has been sold down the river to a shyster. I initially said we should exercise caution as we donít know the full details, but a week later we are none the wiser. What others on this forum have unearthed and the lack of communication to me have spoken volumes, and I think this will continue. GM has what he wants and is now planning his exit with a few £ in his pocket.

I have a gut feeling that in less than 5 years the club may not even exist. If it does it will be in the lower leagues, but not playing itís rugby at 6-ways.

The whole sale stinks like a rotten egg and I for one will not waste my time and money contributing to the coffers of an individual who, in his previous exploits has had anything but a positive effect. While he is involved, after Sunday me or my son will not set foot in the place.

The horse(Allen) has bolted leaving BB to take all the flack. But heís ok as theyíve got their money. But us, the supporters what have we got.........?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 08:53
I have a season ticket and no longer drink up there(haven't now for 4 years) so I will continue to support the team, then make a decision in the close season as we see what the club is doing.

Remember there is a flourishing Rugby Club just over the road who I am sure would love your patronage

Has a brand new clubhouse with a great bar. You get close the action and you are really part of the club not just an income stream.

£50 membership is worth every penny and it helps the club to continue and thrive

JP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2018 08:57 by Faithful_City.

 
Abmatt
Re: New Owners
Abmatt (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:12
JP,

I would go across the road, but when itís a 150 mile round trip what matches I do attend cost a lot when you factor in the fuel and driving time.

Hence why with the sale I am not going to waste anymore of mine. Due to work, last season I got to one match, away at wasps. This season, due to my son starting to gain more interest and learning to play I was going to make a concerted effort to attend as many games as possible. Not now. I shall support from a distance until such time as the situation is clarified, we have new ownership or cease to exist.

I work away all week so family time is a precious commodity. If things were better both on and off the pitch it would make it more palletable. On the pitch we may be improving, off, I think we are in decline.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2018 09:22 by Abmatt.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:13
I was in the original members meeting at the old WRFC when Cecil came and explained his dream of Premiership rugby. I heard what he proposed and bought into his vision and have since supported it as I can financially.

I understand life moves on in all sectors but I have been told nothing at present that instills any confidence in both the purchase or sale.

I won't be going tomorrow as I don't want to support financially anymore until someone or a group of people tell me what is going on, what is proposed and what is in place to make Worcester Warriors sustainable and a viable prospect for me to continue to support in the future by spending my money.

That's not saying I wouldn't support a group of great players/characters and hope for survival and the right results.

I'm half expecting Jed to get on the mike before the game with a Warriors scarf around his neck! Too little too late for me.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:30
Quote:
knighstemplar
I have read in interview style from the WN and BB that Gus is still Managing Director and Cecil is President. According to legal public records this is not the case both have resigned from the board.
How can you have a Director resign from the board and still be a Managing Director?

President is usually merely an honorary title and is not normally a recognised Board level position. The Managing Director will report to the Board of Directors and is responsible for the day-to-day management of the organisation but doesn't have to be on the Board of Directors (although they can be). There are lots of companies that have senior managers with 'Director' in their job title but who aren't a Board Director. Confusing, I know.

Quote:
Faithful_City
By not being on the board of directors they save themselves being liable for any debts incurred.

In limited liability companies, such as WRFC Trading Ltd, the Directors do not have any financial liability for debts incurred by the company UNLESS they have been in breach of their fiduciary duties, or their duties as set out in the Companies Act. In reality, this is unlikely ever to be the case: for example, I'm not aware of any Directors being held responsible for the debts incurred by the banks, etc., and they bankrupted their organisations, not to mention the country.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:41
It would be quite unusual for someone in the role of managing director in Gusís context not to be on the board of the main company, in this case trading. It may of course be only temporary and the structure might change, however at face value it looks a bit odd.

In the same way itís odd that none of the other names mentioned as part of the consortium appear anywhere so far on any of the paperwork.

Neither has there been any commemt from any of the new owners, not even so much as a bland statement.

None of this is usual or normal for me. At the very least it raises eyebrows.

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:46
Quote:
neiljk
It would be quite unusual for someone in the role of managing director in Gusís context not to be on the board of the main company, in this case trading. It may of course be only temporary and the structure might change, however at face value it looks a bit odd.
In the same way itís odd that none of the other names mentioned as part of the consortium appear anywhere so far on any of the paperwork.

Neither has there been any commemt from any of the new owners, not even so much as a bland statement.

None of this is usual or normal for me. At the very least it raises eyebrows.

It's clearly registered with the club as there was that official Twitter feed response about "fake news" and then nothing more to substantiate the statement.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:48
Quote:
A38
Quote:
knightstemplar
How can you have a Director resign from the board and still be a Managing Director?

I must admit to not having read into the detail of the company structures pre and post the sale but one must remember that each structure had / has a number of companies in it and each will have its own board of directors.

So, hypothetically, the share capital of company X, say, is owned by company A. Company A sells its shares in X to Company B.

Mr XYZ is Managing Director of company X and continues in that role post sale.

However he was also a director of company A from which he now resigns, there being no reason for him to stay.

Actually all this detail is the principal reason I have not bothered to follow the published corporate information, such as it is. What happens over the next few months will happen. We have very little control over it.

Whilst company structures and shareholdings can be quite complicated, often to put people off trying to understand what is going on, in the case of the Warriors it's actually pretty straightforward.

WRFC Trading Ltd is the company that runs the club. Its shares were owned by Cecil and Sixways Holdings Ltd, with the vast majority in the hands of the latter. Sixways Holdings Ltd was part of the structure by which the Allens held their shares and ultimately controlled Warriors. As such, I doubt any of the Warriors Board were involved in it, other than Greg Allen.

WRFC Trading Ltd still exists and is still the company that runs the club, as evidenced by the charge the company has granted over the P shares that it owns. Cecil and SHL have sold their shares to Ged, who is now the sole shareholder, via his company Militibus Quanco Ltd.

The Directors of WRFC Trading, including Gus MacKay, have resigned, apart from Bill, and been replaced by Ged and Michael Blood.



Whatever you do, do it safely!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2018 10:23 by Brummagem Bertie.

 
MacWarrior
Re: New Owners
MacWarrior (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:48
I was really excited about the Bristol game on Sunday but feel very flat now, as if the result actually doesnít matter.

 
Abmatt
Re: New Owners
Abmatt (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 09:59
Quote:
MacWarrior
I was really excited about the Bristol game on Sunday but feel very flat now, as if the result actually doesnít matter.

Ditto

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: New Owners
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 10:07
Agree. Sundayís game is huge but at the moment the outcome feels completrly irrelevant, especially in the long run

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 10:12
[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

Just for fun....

Were any of the details on what the Allens paid for Worcester ever made public?

I know they have invested and loaned the business money over their tenure, but if and when we get to know what it was sold for we can then work out what this means for the Allens.

 
TRIXTA
Re: New Owners
TRIXTA (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 10:27
One thing that puzzles me. If the business history of Ged McCrory is as 'dodgy' as people are suggesting, why would Close Brothers, or any other finance provider for that matter, loan him and his consortium the money? I know that the loans are guaranteed by the assets of the club but even so, it seems a strange thing to do. If you took it to it's extreme, by using the club assets as guarantee, then any Tom, Dick or Harry could buy the club. I would assume that due diligence was carried out by Close Brothers and can only think that some members of the consortium or other parties have given personal guarantees too.

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 10:29
Hockley Investments Limited are Jersey registered under jurisdiction of the British Virgin Islands. F**k all chance of looking at tbat, BVI are a notorious and secretive tax haven.

At some point the ownership of Trading has passed to Sixways Holdings, also Jersey registered, who have sold Trading to the latest owners.

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 10:38
Iím going to be wildly speculative now Trixta.

I wonder if PRL have to be consulted especially in the case of the P share being used as a guarantee? They have made no private comment either.

Hereís the speculative bit, not beyond the realms of possibility that a deal is already in place for the other 12 members to buy Worcesterís P share...

The other question for the private finance is not just the individuals (and note that the other new director of trading is a specialist lawyer from a reputable firm), is why they have invested. Usually these big private finance firms are pretty selective and they want to see and scrutinise a very robust plan to get to a return. I wonder what that plan is especially in the context of virtually no one making any money out of pro rugby and the fact weíre perpetual loss makers, bottom feeders and with a declining fan base. Whatís the golden nugget in this deal then to make it different and worthwhile?

 
B-road
Re: New Owners
06 October, 2018 11:08
I've really have no handle on the technical financial/ownership aspects of this, but to have complete silence from the owners during a week of intense speculation, seems to me to point to one of three things

i) they don't give a toss
ii) they're useless
iii) they don't give a toss and they're useless

I started off open minded, but to have complete silence is bewildering. Not even a cursory "really excited to be driving WRFC forward, more plans to follow" etc.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 11:18
Quote:
neiljk
I wonder what that plan is especially in the context of virtually no one making any money out of pro rugby and the fact weíre perpetual loss makers, bottom feeders and with a declining fan base. Whatís the golden nugget in this deal then to make it different and worthwhile?

Quite, on the current books why would you finance a big loss making organisation without working capital being available.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 11:22
Golden Nugget

Land and P Shares

JP

 
TRIXTA
Re: New Owners
TRIXTA (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 11:27
Quote:
neiljk
Iím going to be wildly speculative now Trixta.
I wonder if PRL have to be consulted especially in the case of the P share being used as a guarantee? They have made no private comment either.

Hereís the speculative bit, not beyond the realms of possibility that a deal is already in place for the other 12 members to buy Worcesterís P share...

The other question for the private finance is not just the individuals (and note that the other new director of trading is a specialist lawyer from a reputable firm), is why they have invested. Usually these big private finance firms are pretty selective and they want to see and scrutinise a very robust plan to get to a return. I wonder what that plan is especially in the context of virtually no one making any money out of pro rugby and the fact weíre perpetual loss makers, bottom feeders and with a declining fan base. Whatís the golden nugget in this deal then to make it different and worthwhile?

Interesting speculation Neiljk. Assuming the P share was bought by whichever body owns it at Worcester, I wouldn't have thought that they would need permission to sell on, although I am not certain of course. Depends on whether or not conditions were attached when they were purchased.
The body providing the loan will have guarantees in place to secure their investment but I agree, they would almost certainly have scrutinised any busy plan put forward to further protect their investment, which makes it all the more puzzling. The loan providers will solely be making their profit on interest charged which then adds to the debate. How much was last year's loss attributable to finance charges? I know it was published somewhere but I seem to recall it was relatively insignificant. I would assume therefore that the interest on loans now provided will come out of income, further increasing the annual losses. As you say, 'I wonder what the plan is'. I am sure we all do.

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 11:35
[www.theguardian.com]

It was £1m according to the last filed accounts.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 11:38
Tenuous Link

Greg Allen - TPA Capital - Lansdowne House

Errol pope - Brooks Pope and Co - Lansdowne Building

JP

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 11:47
Very tenuous, they have completely different addresses.

Worth a read of Greg Allenís profile though. No mention of Worcester.

[www.tpacapital.com]

However, investment is his profession and he divested his families interest in Worcester. Both our last two owners have been emotional ones, Cecilís dream of prem rugby and then Dave Allen stepping in with his friendship. Maybe Greg thought his dad had foolishly invested in a money pit, and has done his best to extricate him without letting his old friend down. Who knows, but it will become clearer once the actions of the new owners play out in the coming months.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 12:10
I did say tenuous, but i am sure they will at least know of each other.

JP

 
Mr Sheens
Re: New Owners
Mr Sheens (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 13:34
We can all see this clear as day. Iím done. Canít make tomorrow anyway. But then will budget the season tickets as a write off and wander off elsewhere for my live sport. After years of dreaming of Ďcracking ití, meaning no more that getting beyond the status of relegation favourites, I could have handled and even backed a scenario that planned to downsize the club for long term sustainability. But now I care too much and will have no part in watching a couple of seasons at best of the death throes. A f&@!ing dirty deal has been done and GA and BB can stick it. Many of you more sanguine than me: best of luck to you.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 13:41
Quote:
TRIXTA
One thing that puzzles me. If the business history of Ged McCrory is as 'dodgy' as people are suggesting,]
Thatís a matter of factual record.

[why would Close Brothers, or any other finance provider for that matter, loan him and his consortium the money?]

Because itís secured against assets.

[If you took it to it's extreme, by using the club assets as guarantee, then any Tom, Dick or Harry could buy the club. .

Indeed.

 
A38
Re: New Owners
A38 (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 13:48
Quote:
TeflonTed
Quote:
TRIXTA
One thing that puzzles me. If the business history of Ged McCrory is as 'dodgy' as people are suggesting,]
Thatís a matter of factual record.

[why would Close Brothers, or any other finance provider for that matter, loan him and his consortium the money?]

Because itís secured against assets.

[If you took it to it's extreme, by using the club assets as guarantee, then any Tom, Dick or Harry could buy the club. .

Indeed.

I rather think that there is a little more to corporate finance than that.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 14:11
Quote:
A38
Quote:
TeflonTed
Quote:
TRIXTA
One thing that puzzles me. If the business history of Ged McCrory is as 'dodgy' as people are suggesting,]
Thatís a matter of factual record.

[why would Close Brothers, or any other finance provider for that matter, loan him and his consortium the money?]

Because itís secured against assets.

[If you took it to it's extreme, by using the club assets as guarantee, then any Tom, Dick or Harry could buy the club. .

Indeed.

I rather think that there is a little more to corporate finance than that.

Undoubtedly, but as a laymanís overview, and a simplification where a simplification is probably acceptable to most, itíll do for me.

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 14:41
With the focus on the purchase of the land, assets and share etc I think it will also be interesting as others have mentioned to see how day to day costs are managed. There is a sizable wage bill. There has to be at least some finance source to cover this and at the moment I have no idea where this is supposed to come from.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 14:43
Quote:
TRIXTA
Quote:
neiljk
Iím going to be wildly speculative now Trixta.
I wonder if PRL have to be consulted especially in the case of the P share being used as a guarantee? They have made no private comment either.

Hereís the speculative bit, not beyond the realms of possibility that a deal is already in place for the other 12 members to buy Worcesterís P share...

The other question for the private finance is not just the individuals (and note that the other new director of trading is a specialist lawyer from a reputable firm), is why they have invested. Usually these big private finance firms are pretty selective and they want to see and scrutinise a very robust plan to get to a return. I wonder what that plan is especially in the context of virtually no one making any money out of pro rugby and the fact weíre perpetual loss makers, bottom feeders and with a declining fan base. Whatís the golden nugget in this deal then to make it different and worthwhile?

Interesting speculation Neiljk. Assuming the P share was bought by whichever body owns it at Worcester, I wouldn't have thought that they would need permission to sell on, although I am not certain of course. Depends on whether or not conditions were attached when they were purchased.
The body providing the loan will have guarantees in place to secure their investment but I agree, they would almost certainly have scrutinised any busy plan put forward to further protect their investment, which makes it all the more puzzling. The loan providers will solely be making their profit on interest charged which then adds to the debate. How much was last year's loss attributable to finance charges? I know it was published somewhere but I seem to recall it was relatively insignificant. I would assume therefore that the interest on loans now provided will come out of income, further increasing the annual losses. As you say, 'I wonder what the plan is'. I am sure we all do.

The P shares are in Premier Rugby and come with playing in the Premiership. As I understand it, they are linked to the share of central funding a club gets. A club that's promoted from the Championship, that hasn't got any P shares, gets shares for each season they remain in the club, up to the max shareholding. If you are relegated, you can keep hold of your shares, hoping to get back in the Prem. When you do you get a larger slice of the cake than if you were starting off from scratch, like London Welsh.

How much that has changed since London Welsh took the RFU/PRL to court to secure a fairer slice of the funding I don't know.

I do know, however, that WRFC Trading Ltd own 80 P shares and have given a charge over them to Link Corporate Trustees (UK) Ltd. That charge gives Link the right to exercise a power of sale should an "enforcement event" occur. An enforcement event is described as an event of default, which is continuing. One of the default events listed is relegation from the Premiership.

The charge also refers to Trading entering into a share security agreement with Close Brothers plc. This will also be in relation to the P shares.

The purpose of the charge appears to be to provide security for the sums due from Trading to Link in respect of the leases of the land at Sixways, which are said to be leases from Link as Landlord to Trading as Tenant.

If we were to be relegated Trading, as owners of the P shares, would have the right to sell them, as Leeds did with theirs, after several seasons out of the Prem. What the charge does, however, is to give Link a power of sale also. The charge also means that if the club sold the P shares Link would have second call on the proceeds of sale, after Close Brothers had taken what was due to them, with the club/its shareholders third.

Now, whether Link would exercise their power of sale should the club be relegated is the big question. It would depend on whether they wanted out, or felt that relegation meant that the club would become unsustainable. If Link were satisfied that the club could continue to pay the sums it had to pay, they might decide that selling the P shares would achieve nothing and would actually harm the club if it got promoted back to the Prem, so business as usual.

There is also the question of whether just being relegated would give rise to the power. The charge refers to an event of default continuing. Relegation is a singular event. Is there an argument that for the event of default, in this case relegation, to be deemed as continuing it has to last for more than one season, i.e. the power of sale wouldn't arise until and unless we failed to be promoted straight back up? Discuss.

Even if the P shares were sold, that wouldn't, of itself, preclude the club carrying on and even getting promoted back to the Prem. It would just mean that the club had to start accruing P shares from scratch, like the first time we were promoted.

I won't be at the game tomorrow, but that's due to a family event rather than any protest at the takeover.

I have a season ticket and will continue to support the team this season by turning up to home games (and, possibly, a few away). I will give a lot of thought to whether I renew based on what happens over the next 6 months but something very positive has to happen to allay the serious concerns I have over this buy out.

I would urge others in a similar position to do the same. It seems to me to be biting your nose off to spite your face to say you are not going to turn up to support the new owners when you have already got a season ticket. Turning up is never about supporting the owners, who are merely temporary custodians of the club: it's about supporting the team, and they still need our support.

I appreciate that where you have limited family time and a 150 mile round trip, the issue becomes more complicated, but I would still encourage people to do so.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 14:54
BB, With a 5 mile round trip I shall be there, as will, Iím sure, our friend with the colourful kecks.

 
gmem
Re: New Owners
Garym (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 15:42
Well said BB.

It is also my understanding with P Shares that if you are out of the Premiership for more than 2 seasons, then there is an obligation to sell the shares (if somebody in the premiership offers to buy them), so really we are in a position that is not to dissimilar to last week.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 15:42
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie

I would urge others in a similar position to do the same. It seems to me to be biting your nose off to spite your face to say you are not going to turn up to support the new owners when you have already got a season ticket. Turning up is never about supporting the owners, who are merely temporary custodians of the club: it's about supporting the team, and they still need our support.

I don't have a season ticket this year and don't live locally. So I won't be doing this.

I attend as many home games as I can make and some away. Until something as positive is declared that negates the public record negativity I will wait to make a judgement for the future then.

I will support the team and future results but not financially that's it.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 15:51
Fair enough kt; hopefully you can make some of the away games, so you don't have to support the new owners financially.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
knightstemplar (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 15:54
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Fair enough kt; hopefully you can make some of the away games, so you don't have to support the new owners financially.

I will try I will support the Team.

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 16:23
Thereís no obligation to sell Garym

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 16:29
Iíll be there tomorrow to support the team. Th season ticket means commitment this season but Iíll take a view on next on how the next six months pan out. My level of confidence and excitement for the future at Sixways is diminishing.

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 18:25
I shall go and see how things pan out. For better or worse things will become clear in the coming months. First real test as people have said will be contract renewals.

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 19:38
In other news, is this the first recorded instance of rats joining a sinking ship?

 
gmem
Re: New Owners
Garym (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 21:34
Quote:
neiljk
Thereís no obligation to sell Garym
Not even after 2 seasons out?

 
TRIXTA
Re: New Owners
TRIXTA (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 22:02
After a couple of glasses of rather nice single malt, my brain is even more addled than usual but I ask the question - if the loans to the consortium are close to the market value of the club and there is a charge on the assets, how will the new owners make a profit should everything go pear shaped, especially as losses will have been accruing since day one? Or am I missing something?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 22:17
Quote:
TRIXTA. how will the new owners make a profit should everything go pear shaped, ?[/quote

Now, therein lies the problem.....how long have I been telling you all itís all about The Pears!

 
Rinkadink
Re: New Owners
Rinkadink (IP Logged)
06 October, 2018 23:23
Was it BB on the previous page talking about P shares accumulating? Anyway, no you don't accumulate P shares. It is A shares that are accumulated;

Premiership Shares
Each club gets B shares
Every club gets five A shares for every year they are in the Premiership.
Clubs get a maximum of 40 A shares after six years
P shares, worth 25% of income, only given to 13 clubs.

Easy to get confused though. (:

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
beav1s (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 07:41
Quote:
TRIXTA
After a couple of glasses of rather nice single malt, my brain is even more addled than usual but I ask the question - if the loans to the consortium are close to the market value of the club and there is a charge on the assets, how will the new owners make a profit should everything go pear shaped, especially as losses will have been accruing since day one? Or am I missing something?
They strip money out of the club while it is operating. For example at Swindon, outsourced the catering for ten years and pocketed the money. Opened an unlicensed bar in on of the smaller stands and pocketed the money. Had a fleet of Mercedes for him and his mates paid for by the club. When Chelsea visited for a cup match put extra temporary seating in and pocketed the extra gate money. Never paid the company for the seats leading to an appearance on one of Channel 5's bailiff programs. The season ticket money for the year following the takeover was also went missing.

 
neiljk
Re: New Owners
neiljk (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 07:42
Trixta, the answer to that is two fold.

The new owners believe the assets are undervalued and that they can manage the business in a better way i.e. they believe they can make Warriors a going concern in the prem.

And/or the new owners are prepared to make decisions the old owners would not have.

For example, if there is a case to sell the P share, some of the land and then run a sporting and conferencing venue in the lower leagues, it seems unlikely that the Allens would have done that. Instead they sell out at a lower price, and leave it to someone else to do the controversial.

Remember that PRL and the RFU stood idly by when pests moved. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that you can say it wrested the club away from itís old support base and at a stroke made following the team quite a lot harder. I doubt too many still go. The point of that is no one is going to bat an eyelid at a few thousand of us Worcester fans, especially if loss of our P share is an enabler for a perceived greater good.

You never know, they might even run a bus to pests for us. But youíd need to put a the ticket in my cold, dead hand and drag me on before I took that journey.

 
TRIXTA
Re: New Owners
TRIXTA (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 08:10
Quote:
neiljk
Trixta, the answer to that is two fold.
The new owners believe the assets are undervalued and that they can manage the business in a better way i.e. they believe they can make Warriors a going concern in the prem.

And/or the new owners are prepared to make decisions the old owners would not have.

For example, if there is a case to sell the P share, some of the land and then run a sporting and conferencing venue in the lower leagues, it seems unlikely that the Allens would have done that. Instead they sell out at a lower price, and leave it to someone else to do the controversial.

Remember that PRL and the RFU stood idly by when pests moved. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that you can say it wrested the club away from itís old support base and at a stroke made following the team quite a lot harder. I doubt too many still go. The point of that is no one is going to bat an eyelid at a few thousand of us Worcester fans, especially if loss of our P share is an enabler for a perceived greater good.

You never know, they might even run a bus to pests for us. But youíd need to put a the ticket in my cold, dead hand and drag me on before I took that journey.

Couple of things here Neiljk. The P shares cannot be sold until the loan has been repaid due to the charge on them. In the meantime, interest on the loan has to be paid together with the ongoing losses at just under £700,000 per month. Also, were the assets really that undervalued at sale? Surely this is speculation as we don't know the agreed price? Either the new owners are taking a massive gamble or indeed do plan to develop the club.

Beav1s - I am not sure they can strip money out of a loss making club. This would surely increase debt which they would have to repay.

I am still puzzled as to why Close Brothers agreed a loan with this particular group - also, if the assets were sold off cheaply as you suggest Neiljk, why the Allens took so long to reach this deal when other offers were on the table some time ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 08:18 by TRIXTA.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
Abberley (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 08:12
Quote:
neiljk

The new owners believe the assets are undervalued...


Or, the new owner has persuaded his investors that the assets are undervalued, and will have squirrelled away a comfortable nest-egg before they realise?

 
Gray_Lensman
Re: New Owners
Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 08:41
The interesting thing about the P shares is that after 2 seasons out a club is obliged to sell them if an offer is made. If the clubs in question cannot agree a price then it goes to binding arbitration. So, in theory, the arbitrator could value them at less than any loan secured against them and the club would be contractually required to sell. Of course there's nothing to prevent a club selling whenever they want, so if relegation is a defined default event then it looks as if they could be sold straight away unless the intention of the charge is based on the two season rule. If it is then Worcester are no worse off than they would otherwise be, except, importantly, the money doesn't appear to to the club on any sale.

We've never actually seen the process at work. Exeter considered an offer for Bristol's but realising that with Lansdown 's money behind them they would hold out, instead waited another year and Leedshire were in a much weaker position and sold up. Supposedly the proceeds were ringfenced against a return to the Premiership but I haven't heard of that has remained the case. How arbitration would work hasn't been tested.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: New Owners
beav1s (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 09:22
Quote:
TRIXTA

Beav1s - I am not sure they can strip money out of a loss making club. This would surely increase debt which they would have to repay.

Swindon wasn't making a profit. My last post told you how they did it there. No care about running up debts because no intention of paying them. There are a million and one ways to skim money out of a club like Worcester.

 
Bauer
Re: New Owners
Bauer (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 09:22
Iíve been a long term supporter, Iíve had a season ticket for at least 10 years and shock horror Iím friends with Jed. In fact I enjoyed a couple of pints with him in Alcester on Friday night.

Heís not Satan, heís not trying to rip the club off, heís not going to sell the land off and above all heís not asset stripping to make a quick buck.

You have no idea the lengths he has gone through in order to buyiour club, it was in a right old pickle.

Heís not dodgy, heís a businessman heís very straight talking and he doesnít stand for @#$%&, he has however got a vision for the club, he wants us to be the place youngsters want to come and play rugby and then stay and not @#$%& off. He wants us to be self sufficient and successful.

The Swindon town@#$%&on the internet is rubbish, it got very messy but donít believe everything you read.

Not coming to games is madness!! I will be with my Dad today in the east stand in the disabled area, my names Ben Iím a big lad with a beard, come say hi, ask me my thoughts but please stop the negative speculation, there really is no need

 
shrewsburyman
Re: New Owners
shrewsburyman (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 09:24
Providing the team perform I shall enjoy my rugby and live for the moment.i have always supported the Allans on this site so am devastated by what appears to have happened. I posted earlier that the P shares were the key and we all seem to agree on that. Sadly the earlier comments by Yeller with regard to the Ed Griffiths bid echo my thoughts exactly. If we feel like this about the way that the Allanís have behaved I wonder what on earth Cecil must think!

 
TRIXTA
Re: New Owners
TRIXTA (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 10:07
Quote:
beav1s
Quote:
TRIXTA

Beav1s - I am not sure they can strip money out of a loss making club. This would surely increase debt which they would have to repay.

Swindon wasn't making a profit. My last post told you how they did it there. No care about running up debts because no intention of paying them. There are a million and one ways to skim money out of a club like Worcester.

So charging a fleet of cars to the club or depriving the club of bar takings by setting up a rival bar isn't increasing the club's (Swindon) losses? These increased debts will have to be repaid and I suppose it all depends on whether or not the charges on the assets cover the loans or whether individual guarantees have been given should things go wrong.

I would like to believe that Bauer's post above is correct.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 10:14
Quote:
Rinkadink
Was it BB on the previous page talking about P shares accumulating? Anyway, no you don't accumulate P shares. It is A shares that are accumulated;
Premiership Shares
Each club gets B shares
Every club gets five A shares for every year they are in the Premiership.
Clubs get a maximum of 40 A shares after six years
P shares, worth 25% of income, only given to 13 clubs.

Easy to get confused though. (:

Quote:
Gray_Lensman
The interesting thing about the P shares is that after 2 seasons out a club is obliged to sell them if an offer is made. If the clubs in question cannot agree a price then it goes to binding arbitration. So, in theory, the arbitrator could value them at less than any loan secured against them and the club would be contractually required to sell. Of course there's nothing to prevent a club selling whenever they want, so if relegation is a defined default event then it looks as if they could be sold straight away unless the intention of the charge is based on the two season rule. If it is then Worcester are no worse off than they would otherwise be, except, importantly, the money doesn't appear to to the club on any sale.
We've never actually seen the process at work. Exeter considered an offer for Bristol's but realising that with Lansdown 's money behind them they would hold out, instead waited another year and Leedshire were in a much weaker position and sold up. Supposedly the proceeds were ringfenced against a return to the Premiership but I haven't heard of that has remained the case. How arbitration would work hasn't been tested.

Thank you both for that info. It's always useful to have stuff like this to inform the debate.

Are you able to post a link to the source info, for future reference please?



Whatever you do, do it safely!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 10:16 by Brummagem Bertie.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: New Owners
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 10:30
Quote:
Bauer
Iíve been a long term supporter, Iíve had a season ticket for at least 10 years and shock horror Iím friends with Jed. In fact I enjoyed a couple of pints with him in Alcester on Friday night.
Heís not Satan, heís not trying to rip the club off, heís not going to sell the land off and above all heís not asset stripping to make a quick buck.

You have no idea the lengths he has gone through in order to buyiour club, it was in a right old pickle.

You are talking about a club that's had millions of capital investment into high quality strength, conditioning and medical facilities, two full size training pitches, a fully functioning academy system with centres in all parts of our RFU region. The club also fully owns its own ground and the £20m of shareholder loans, which funded all of the above plus a lot more, were written off before the sale was announced. In addition, the coaching and playing sides of the club have been stabilised after the mess Ryan left, all whilst staying in the Prem. That does not look like a club in a right old pickle, whatever Ged might have told you.

Heís not dodgy, heís a businessman heís very straight talking and he doesnít stand for @#$%&, he has however got a vision for the club, he wants us to be the place youngsters want to come and play rugby and then stay and not @#$%& off. He wants us to be self sufficient and successful.

You're the second person to tell us that. Would be rather nice for the rest of us to hear it from the horse's mouth, don't you think, rather than hearsay?

The Swindon town@#$%&on the internet is rubbish, it got very messy but donít believe everything you read.

The problem is that a lot of the stuff you are asking us to disbelieve has been judicially determined, even the subject of programmes on national tv. Ged has shown he's not averse to suing people he thinks write rubbish about him, so in the absence of contrary evidence I'll believe the stuff on record. Of course, if Ged wants to put his side of the story out there, there's nothing stopping him. I wonder why he hasn't?



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
SimonG19
Re: New Owners
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 10:31
Quote:
Bauer
Iíve been a long term supporter, Iíve had a season ticket for at least 10 years and shock horror Iím friends with Jed. In fact I enjoyed a couple of pints with him in Alcester on Friday night.
Heís not Satan, heís not trying to rip the club off, heís not going to sell the land off and above all heís not asset stripping to make a quick buck.

You have no idea the lengths he has gone through in order to buyiour club, it was in a right old pickle.

Heís not dodgy, heís a businessman heís very straight talking and he doesnít stand for @#$%&, he has however got a vision for the club, he wants us to be the place youngsters want to come and play rugby and then stay and not @#$%& off. He wants us to be self sufficient and successful.

The Swindon town@#$%&on the internet is rubbish, it got very messy but donít believe everything you read.

Not coming to games is madness!! I will be with my Dad today in the east stand in the disabled area, my names Ben Iím a big lad with a beard, come say hi, ask me my thoughts but please stop the negative speculation, there really is no need

Was the Judge's summary of his truthfulness also a pack of made up lies on the internet?

 
A38
Re: New Owners
A38 (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 10:57
[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

There is nothing particularly new in the podcast, we've read most if not all of it. The tone though is interesting, it's quite positive, and I am a touch - only a touch - reassured. Tone is not something which comes out of the written word.

BB sounds confident for the future but his role now seems to be the bridge between the old and new owners, a sort of interim caretaker. He cannot really speak for the new regime.

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 11:17
Quote:
A38
https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/16965519.worcester-warriors-podcast-episode-six/
There is nothing particularly new in the podcast, we've read most if not all of it. The tone though is interesting, it's quite positive, and I am a touch - only a touch - reassured. Tone is not something which comes out of the written word.

BB sounds confident for the future but his role now seems to be the bridge between the old and new owners, a sort of interim caretaker. He cannot really speak for the new regime.

I listened to this last night and got the same impression. One thing that I hadn't read in print was that BB states they explicitly ensured that funds were available to not only buy the club, but to sustain it for the next few years day to day. We shall see.

 
Freypal
Re: New Owners
Freypal (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 11:20
Quote:
Bauer
Heís not dodgy, heís a businessman heís very straight talking and he doesnít stand for @#$%&, he has however got a vision for the club, he wants us to be the place youngsters want to come and play rugby and then stay and not @#$%& off. He wants us to be self sufficient and successful.

A statement from the new owners would help here. It's been nearly a week and the only word has been relayed through BB.

 
Bauer
Re: New Owners
Bauer (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 11:37
Can I make an proposition, Jed will be at the club today, approach him, ask for a time suitable and sit down with him and ask him yourself. He will probably be with me for a bit in East stand disabled area.Hes approachable and has said in the past hes happy to talk to fans.

I will say this, make sure you have your facts straight, I suggest unless you were part of the buying team or actually know what happened at Swindon you think carefully about your questions.

Its very easy to sit here and type away on a Forum, however can you hand on heart say you know everything you write is FACT. For example, do you know how the shares were actually distributed, do you know for sure the club owned all the land? There are loads of questions I see on here, write them down and ask him. Hes very straight talking but also very blunt.

Yes he has had words with the press before when they print@#$%&about him, the Times is a good example, but wouldn't you or are you happy to have people put things in print and quote you have never even interviewed you???

As for the club being in a pickle,just because someone is good looking doesn't mean they are nice person, any one can throw money at things, it doesn't make it well managed

 
Warr-i-ors!
Re: New Owners
Warr-i-ors! (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 13:33
Interesting that BT Sport approached the new owners for a statement and they declined to comment. They clearly have no intention of putting out any sort of statement any time soon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 13:33 by Warr-i-ors!.

 
Devonianwarrior
Re: New Owners
Devonianwarrior (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 14:45
Where I agree with Bauer is that I think the club has been poorly run for years and money has been thrown at problems which has only served to increase the losses.We need someone who has the working capital to stem the losses and the get the club on an even keel. I hope he is the man to do this.The previous owners have not set the bar very high.

 
Devonianwarrior
Re: New Owners
Devonianwarrior (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 14:45
Where I agree with Bauer is that I think the club has been poorly run for years and money has been thrown at problems which has only served to increase the losses.We need someone who has the working capital to stem the losses and the get the club on an even keel. I hope he is the man to do this.The previous owners have not set the bar very high.

 
SimonG19
Re: New Owners
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 16:05
Quote:
Bauer
Can I make an proposition, Jed will be at the club today, approach him, ask for a time suitable and sit down with him and ask him yourself. He will probably be with me for a bit in East stand disabled area.Hes approachable and has said in the past hes happy to talk to fans.
I will say this, make sure you have your facts straight, I suggest unless you were part of the buying team or actually know what happened at Swindon you think carefully about your questions.

Its very easy to sit here and type away on a Forum, however can you hand on heart say you know everything you write is FACT. For example, do you know how the shares were actually distributed, do you know for sure the club owned all the land? There are loads of questions I see on here, write them down and ask him. Hes very straight talking but also very blunt.

Yes he has had words with the press before when they print@#$%&about him, the Times is a good example, but wouldn't you or are you happy to have people put things in print and quote you have never even interviewed you???

As for the club being in a pickle,just because someone is good looking doesn't mean they are nice person, any one can throw money at things, it doesn't make it well managed

I know exactly what the Judge said about him because it's a matter of public record.

 
Simba
Re: New Owners
Simba (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 16:19
Well if todayís performance is anything to by, we should change owners every week

 
Bauer
Re: New Owners
Bauer (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 17:11
SimonG19, whatís your point? If you have a real problem with him and the situation maybe you should talk to him?

 
Bauer
Re: New Owners
Bauer (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 17:12
Quote:
Warr-i-ors!
Interesting that BT Sport approached the new owners for a statement and they declined to comment. They clearly have no intention of putting out any sort of statement any time soon.

It was in the program and he was with his family today and didnít want to.

 
MFTS
Re: New Owners
MFTS (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 18:51
Bauer

Maybe if Ged is happy to talk to supporters and answer their question maybe the WRSC could arrange an ĎAn Evening with Gedí

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: New Owners
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 19:33
Quote:
Bauer
SimonG19, whatís your point? If you have a real problem with him and the situation maybe you should talk to him?

Iím sure Simon G will correct me if im wrong (and sorry for jumping in here) but crikey, itís pretty obvious what his point is. YOU questioned the validty of whatís being raised on here, challenging people to speak to Jed about them. When challenged with an answer youíve gone on the defensive ďwhatís your point?Ē. I canít believe you are that stupid as to misunderstand Simonís point so can only assume you are dodging the question.

 
Bauer
Re: New Owners
Bauer (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 19:53
It bugs me when people just keep writing the same thing over and over, I hardly dodged the question he made a statement. Please donít suggest I am stupid, stooping to that level is unnecessary.
My point still stands, if youíre really interested in what happened at Swindon ask Ged.

Look Iím done here, you guys want to keep panicking fine. I just donít appreciate you attacking sa friend without actual facts.

 
yellow450
Re: New Owners
Yeller (IP Logged)
07 October, 2018 20:10
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Quote:
Bauer
SimonG19, whatís your point? If you have a real problem with him and the situation maybe you should talk to him?

Iím sure Simon G will correct me if im wrong (and sorry for jumping in here) but crikey, itís pretty obvious what his point is. YOU questioned the validty of whatís being raised on here, challenging people to speak to Jed about them. When challenged with an answer youíve gone on the defensive ďwhatís your point?Ē. I canít believe you are that stupid as to misunderstand Simonís point so can only assume you are dodging the question.

I think Bauer is possibly a silent member of 'The Consortium' having shared a couple of pints with Ged.

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