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A38
Back Row Woes
A38 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 09:28
[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

Indication as to selection for the Pau games. Looks like the home game will be given priority. I can't argue with that given injury issues.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Back Row Woes
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 09:44
I canít agree and think itís a really bad and potentially stupid move.

We have worked so hard to get to where we are. If we win the next two games we have one foot in the QFs (and virtually 2 if Ospreys lose at least one game to Stade).... we never have any success, ever. Pau will be up for it next week, knowing that a win would put them right back in the mix for qualification, given they still have to play Ospreys at home and us again. Surely we should be really going for it next week and beating them. They then wonít care about the Sixways game as theyíll be virtually out anyway and whatsmore French sides travel badly anyway. We can rest the first team that week and have them fresh for Northampton. If we lose this week we risk having to play the first team against an all of a sudden up for it Pau side the week before a very important prem fixture. Makes no sense whatsoever IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 09:59 by WorcesterSauce.

 
centrethere
Re: Back Row Woes
centrethere (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 09:58
Totally agree - intíl mix with fatiolofa , Hougaard , Teío all need to be in the 23

 
usa warrior
Re: Back Row Woes
usa warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:00
Can't keep flogging the same players every week though.

 
centrethere
Re: Back Row Woes
centrethere (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:03
Not forgetting faoísilava

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Back Row Woes
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:06
I agree, and i agree with the approach of resting these players for one of these 2 weeks but think he has got the wrong week completely and risks jeopardising our potentially very impressive qualification and then also the Northampton game. If Pau win, we can probably kiss good bye to first place and qualification will be in the balance. A win and weíre almost there.

I also worry a bit that we cannot last three games withour getting absolutely shattered.

 
centrethere
Re: Back Row Woes
centrethere (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:16
I was agreeing with you WS, even with few knocks at glaws and one or two needing a rest, the cupboard is surely not that bare. Take the AS comment to be too early in the week to have any meaning

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Back Row Woes
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:18
Yep - sorry Centre there my comment was in response to usa.

 
gmem
Re: Back Row Woes
Garym (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:31
Quote:
centrethere
I was agreeing with you WS, even with few knocks at glaws and one or two needing a rest, the cupboard is surely not that bare. Take the AS comment to be too early in the week to have any meaning

I think the cupboard is that bare - how many players have we not seen/only seen for 1or 2 games in the backrow this season. The vast majority of them would fit in that category! Take away Lewis and GJ to a degree and everybody else has only played a few games. I am sure that Super Ted would not have got his chance so early if the others had all been fit

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Back Row Woes
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:38
Injuries i can deal with and obviously canít be helped but if we are resting for the sake of it, which reading the article seems to be the approach, itís just an unnecessary risk. As iíve alluded to above, they only had a rest 3 weeks ago! Hougaard was in Miami for a week ffs!

 
centrethere
Re: Back Row Woes
centrethere (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 10:49
Itís a smokescreen. The coaches have at least a couple of days to think about it before training the expected team. Although I could take it to mean shillcock starting at 10 in his mind at present

 
A38
Re: Back Row Woes
A38 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 11:08
I would like to make a general point - without referring to individual players or indeed individual games.

As supporters I don't think we are close to understanding the potential damage each Premiership game does to the players' bodies. We demand that our best team is played in each and every game but I don't think that this is either feasible or realistic.

If the game as we know it is to continue with all its abrasion then we have to accept that players' time out on the pitch will have to be rationed and that decisions will have to be taken as to which games to give priority to.

To my mind, the overriding priority - both in rugby and commercial terms - is home games. To stay in the Premiership, most home games must be won. To increase attendance at Sixways, most home games must be won.

It follows therefore that if key Player A is nursing a strain he does not play in an away game which is most unlikely to be a loss. Far better to keep him "whole" for important home games.

After all that is what squad size and rotation is meant to cater for.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Back Row Woes
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 11:09
I think he has chose the right week to rest for the following reasons

We are more likely to win at home, so make sure we do put the best team out

We are@#$%&after a break, make sure the Saints game is not after a break

Rest now before injuries are exacerbated

Bring in players who are desperate for game time, then bring in returning players for last 20 at Pau

Home game against Saints is a big game for us AND them.

JP

 
usa warrior
Re: Back Row Woes
usa warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 11:11
And our "second team" won both of the previous games. Why not now?

Will admit to knowing nothing of Pau's current form.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Back Row Woes
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 12:26
It's a really short turnaround, with the game on Friday and having to travel Thursday. If players are nursing knocks or knackered from 3 big games it makes sense to leave them at home. We would soon be questioning the Coaches if a minor knock turned into a long term injury.

Added to that is the article on Alfie, which confirms he suffered a setback when he had to play against Sarries when he wasn't quite ready, as well as research that I seem to recall reading last season that indicated tired players were more likely to pick up serious injury.

It makes a lot of sense to concentrate on our home games and the Prem.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Back Row Woes
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 12:29
The mentality of ďhome games are more importantĒ is probably true but it is also that sort of mentality that has probably meant we have never kicked on and have won less than 10% of premiership away games. If we are serious about doing anything, including competing in the challenge cup, we have to win away. I agree, our chances of winning away are less likely, so why not put a stronger team out to try and shift the odds in our favour. I have no doubts our second team would beat an already knock out Pau side at Sixways.

As above, if our injuries are so bad then giving our squad just a 5 day recovery period before what has turned out to be a huge premiership game is the wrong call.

Whereas i am sure the game is ridiculously attritional, if players cant play for 3 weeks in a row before being completely broken and in need of another weeks holiday then perhaps the game is broken... but saying that i doubt many of the England players will have the 2 weeks off.

Of course our seconds may do the job, and if so then itís great. If not itís a disaster... itís just a silly risk IMO given a knocked out Pau side at Sixways would be beaten with ease by our seconds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 12:30 by WorcesterSauce.

 
Warrior Al
Re: Back Row Woes
Warrior Al (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 12:53
Don't forget we are where we are in this competition thanks to our '2nd string' we rested players away in Paris and at home to Ospreys, why not back them again. With the players who are also targeting returns and starts it wont be too weak anyway. the likes of Kirwan, fatiolofa, faoísilava, Teo (?), Hougi (?). I would rest Schonert, Weir, Heem and Pennel. Get the likes of Lawrence, Hammond, Howe in. What's the latest on Van Breda, Joe T and Mama?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Back Row Woes
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 12:56
Rugby is a brutal game and the back row often are involved in the biggest hits so I am not surprised to see us struggling with injuries. As much as we have done in Europe this season I would give most players two weeks off if they are struggling and focus on the premiership, we are in a huge battle against relegation that if we get right could mean a top 6 place, if we get it wrong its back to the championship.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Back Row Woes
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 12:57
Quote:
Warrior Al
Don't forget we are where we are in this competition thanks to our '2nd string' we rested players away in Paris and at home to Ospreys, why not back them again. With the players who are also targeting returns and starts it wont be too weak anyway. the likes of Kirwan, fatiolofa, faoísilava, Teo (?), Hougi (?). I would rest Schonert, Weir, Heem and Pennel. Get the likes of Lawrence, Hammond, Howe in. What's the latest on Van Breda, Joe T and Mama?

Yeh itís a wait and see i guess. Weir should play if we want to qualify. He doesnt seem fatigued or injured... rest him for the home leg IMO where kicks will be less important. Teo should be first on the team sheet both weeks.

 
usa warrior
Re: Back Row Woes
usa warrior (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 13:16
Teo won't be playing this weekend...

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Back Row Woes
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 13:17
Is that fact? If so, what a joke. Surely even those who have given him the benefit must be starting to get annoyed with this now



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 13:18 by WorcesterSauce.

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Back Row Woes
ROLLO (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 13:45
The problem of fatigued bodies is partly of our own making. Because we spend so much time on the back foot we are having to tackle more , this means more damage. If we can get onto the front foot, the reverse may happen? .
There is no doubt that in not having replacements for Spencer and Denton we have been at a disadvantage , indeed in the circumstances I think we have done rather well. As I said on another post I am not optimistic about reinforcements( unless there are substantial other injuries ) - we have what we have.

 
Malvern Man
Re: Back Row Woes
Malvern Man (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 16:41
Slightly unfair on the club? Spencer and Denton were replaced by Fatialofa and Du Preez, surely of equivalent standard. It's not their fault that Fatialofa arrived with a mismanaged injury and Du Preez had a freak injury.

 
Freypal
Re: Back Row Woes
Freypal (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 16:48
Ben should be in this weekend. It gives some respite at centre and should allow a quality replacement to slot in. If he's not available then that's very disappointing.

Are Lawrence and Butler available back from injury now?

 
shrewsburyman
Re: Back Row Woes
shrewsburyman (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 18:43
We are having to make so many tackles because we kick so much.I have no problem with a kicking game but feel that we might benefit from holding onto the ball a little more. Given that we are a little lightweight at the moment again it makes sense to move the opposition around. Just a thought.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Back Row Woes
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 08:11
I think if our first XV can't beat Pau at home, then is the time to worry: they have lost most of their away games, usually by around 20 points.

Pau have also lost most of their home games, so I'm backing the team that does play to go over there and get a result, as I think Pau's priority will also be their league: they are currently 3 points above the second relegation team, Grenoble, with a worse points difference.

I believe Ollie Lawrence's injury wasn't as bad as feared and that he will be back soon, but this weekend could be bit early. Mama, Kirwan and Alfie are all very close to being back, by all accounts, so with Fatiolofa also close to making his debut I don't think our back row and second row woes will be too much of a concern for long, barring fresh injuries.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MSR-Worcester
Re: Back Row Woes
MSR-Worcester (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 08:43
Quote:
A38
https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/17270649.back-row-injury-concerns-increase-for-worcester-warriors/
Indication as to selection for the Pau games. Looks like the home game will be given priority. I can't argue with that given injury issues.

Looks like the back row is very depleted. Looking through the various injuries I'm not quite sure how we will put a team out. I think Solly should look at bringing in cover if we don't get some players back to full fitness soon.

Fit:
Matt Cox
Tom Dodd

Close to a return:
Alafoti Faosiliva - calf
Ted Hill - arm
GJ van-Velze - ribs
Carl Kirwan - hamstring
Sam Lewis - hamstring
Marco Mama - hamstring
Matti Williams - arm

Long-term injuries:
Dewald Potgieter - knee
Cornell du Preez - larynx
Zac Xiourouppa - ACL

 
centrethere
Re: Back Row Woes
centrethere (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 09:01
Apart from the point about the team largely picking itself again due to injuries, there is the question - coming into the Saints game, are we better having played the starting team week before or are we better having given the team a week off and can expect them to perform.

Both ways have merits, but a win in Pau sets up the mental strength without draining it the week before Saints.

And conversely, will AS consider that getting through these extra comps with first team players may seriously compromise survival in the premiership.

This is where AS has to earn his keep.

 
A38
Re: Back Row Woes
A38 (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 09:15
A bit of an update here:-

[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Back Row Woes
ARFC Warrior (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 09:28
Quote:
A38
A bit of an update here:-
[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

AS quoted in the article:-

ďYou canít get a braver player than Hougaard.

ďBut he just wasnít not right.

Does that mean he was right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2018 10:45 by ARFC Warrior.

 
usa warrior
Re: Back Row Woes
usa warrior (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 06:19
Quote:
usa warrior
Teo won't be playing this weekend...

[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

 
Freypal
Re: Back Row Woes
Freypal (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 07:03
Quote:
usa warrior
Quote:
usa warrior
Teo won't be playing this weekend...

[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

Sigh. Article says he will be ready for the next round of prem games. Except he won't will he if he's gone back to NZ as he still won't have trained with the squad.

These euro games were where he was needed to allow rest time for Mills and Venter

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Back Row Woes
Fiver (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 10:06
A real shame that Beck broke his leg. Mind you, that leaves us with Olivier, Butler and Lawrence to get some game time, I'm hoping they're all fit now.


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