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WorcesterSauce
Ring fencing back on the agenda
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 20:18
Just as the league is shaping up to give us the best relegation battle for years, possibly ever.

Of course itíll be spun that Ďthe best interests of the growth of the game are at heartí but this is gonna be awful for us and there is a strong likelihood that our existence as a club may become pretty pointless should we continue to hover around the 9-12th places of the prem.

It also stinks that the clubs are trying to push it through this season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 20:19 by WorcesterSauce.

 
gmem
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Garym (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 21:38
Where have you seen this?

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 21:39
Itís been all around social media tonight, seen it on various sources.

 
gmem
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Garym (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 21:42
Anything tangible you can point us in the direction of? I donít do twitter etc.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 21:53

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Fiver (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 22:01
Is social media as reliable as Wikipedia for facts?

 
gmem
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Garym (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 22:19
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Sure
[www.punditarena.com]

Thanks ... just found the same thing on the Waspsís site. Quite ironic reading some of their comments

 
Eternal optimist
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Eternal optimist (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 22:33
[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Try this

 
incastrowetrust
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 22:33
Doesn't this get brought up every year?

Ring Fencing seems to always be on the verge of happening during the winter period then 3 months later not talked about at all.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
03 December, 2018 22:38
Yeh, youíre right, just this time there seems to potentially be some more powerful teams suggesting it should happen. Itís ridiculous that it keeps rearing itís ugly head to be honest, wish it could just be put to bed once and for all. Thing is once itís in the clubs are never ever going to vote to change it and thereís your 12-14 rugby teams to watch for eternity.... how dull!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Fiver (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 06:21
I really enjoy watching Super Rugby. Just because a team is at the bottom of the table it doesn't stop them wanting to win each game.

 
Freypal
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Freypal (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 06:32
I'm conflicted on this. In principle I like promotion and relegation as it adds excitement to the bottom half. Watching a lot of Pro 14 rugby, other than a scrap for the last Champions cup spot, bottom of the table games end up fairly meaningless.

However this is balanced against the current uncertainty about new ownership and what was unearthed about secured loans, with relegation classed as a default etc. There is still the nagging doubt that a trip down would be one way.

Interesting times either way. It would be a tough pill to swallow for the likes of Ealing and Cornish. I'm undecided as to whether the CVC deal makes this more or less likely.... There are attractions from a commercial perspective either way.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 08:24
Ring fencing has never been off the agenda, particularly for some.

Personally, whatever the arguments for and against, I think if those in charge of the game, at both the RFU and PRL, cannot sustain at least 16 professional teams in the richest union and probably the biggest audience market they all ought to give up and take their 'talents' elsewhere.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 08:32
I believe it will at some stage happen, like it or not.

Why not start now with 13 clubs with a commitment to grow to 16 over the next 5 years and say to the other clubs there are 3 places up for grabs, over to you and see what happens.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 08:40
Sky Blue thinking.

We lose promotion and relegation so....

Why not

For every game a club earns a try bonus they are given £100k

For every game a club earns a LBP they are given £25k

For every loss to a 4 try bonus point and more than 7 points adrift Lose £25k

Every club that ends the season no more than -25 points diff gets £50k


and so on.

Different??

JP

 
jgmorgan100
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
The Mailman (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 08:41
Might happen this year simply because half the league are in danger of relegation. No such thing as cosy mid table now. Kind of focuses the mind!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 08:46
Why not some sort of ticket bonus schemes for supporters sponsored by the club and PRL??

JP

 
Norfolk Warrior
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Norfolk Warrior (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 09:18
Been expecting this after the CVC interest

 
inatthebreakdown
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
inatthebreakdown (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 10:13
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Yeh, youíre right, just this time there seems to potentially be some more powerful teams suggesting it should happen. Itís ridiculous that it keeps rearing itís ugly head to be honest, wish it could just be put to bed once and for all. Thing is once itís in the clubs are never ever going to vote to change it and thereís your 12-14 rugby teams to watch for eternity.... how dull!


But that's what you have now, 12 to 14 teams. It's just that two of them each season are outside the Prem beating everyone else (give or take the odd result here and there) in the Championship. How dull!

 
Malvern Man
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Malvern Man (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 10:22
Curious that it's come up when it isn't just the usual suspects threatened with the drop but "giants of the game" like Bath, Northampton and Leicester.

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 10:32
Quote:
inatthebreakdown
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Yeh, youíre right, just this time there seems to potentially be some more powerful teams suggesting it should happen. Itís ridiculous that it keeps rearing itís ugly head to be honest, wish it could just be put to bed once and for all. Thing is once itís in the clubs are never ever going to vote to change it and thereís your 12-14 rugby teams to watch for eternity.... how dull!


But that's what you have now, 12 to 14 teams. It's just that two of them each season are outside the Prem beating everyone else (give or take the odd result here and there) in the Championship. How dull!

Yep, and i think things should be changed to allow for more growth and championship clubs should be dangled a realistic carrot to aim at. It is fairly dull, but not as dull as playing the same 14 clubs over and over and over again. Forever. Yippee. That doesnít happen now and wonít if the trap door remains open, yoh only have to have a quick trawl through google to see there are a number of Championship clubs who have serious or semi-serious ambitions of Premiership Rugby.

At some point the powers that be will have to make a choice as to whether they want to stifle the growth of the game forever or accept expansion and accept that they have to properly fund a second tier of some description properly.

 
SimonG19
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 10:57
Quote:
Ayerzawannabe
Doesn't this get brought up every year?
Ring Fencing seems to always be on the verge of happening during the winter period then 3 months later not talked about at all.

Absolutely. It's a bit like the media reporting this will be the hottest/coldest year on record. Of course someday they will be right the only question is when.

 
A38
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
A38 (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 11:20
Another of the drivers towards ringfencing will be England's prospects and then actual performance in the World Cup.

The comparison will be made with Ireland. It is my understanding that Ireland's top players will have far less than 20 really competitive games a season. They are able to do this because there is no fear of relegation and therefore each club does not have to put out its key players for each and every match.

This season this is what is happening in England. With so many clubs being within the relegation danger zone the pressure from owners on coaches will be to put out the top players for each and every game.

This increases the risks that England internationals will get injured because they are playing the maximum amount of games and even if there is no major injury the wear and tear will build up.

We've already seen in the Autumn internationals a list of England players not available for injury reasons and it is more than likely that the 6 Nations will see similar depredations.

As I understand it any proposal for ringfencing has to go through the RFU. The RFU will have to balance, I suppose, their natural sporting instincts for competition with the needs of the national team. In that scenario, my guess is that those needs will be paramount especially if the Premiership will accommodate all those clubs who have the resources and grounds and no club will be seen to be disadvantaged.

That leaves the question of an open door for ambitious clubs which are not quite ready for the Premiership. That is where, I believe, most attention will be paid.

 
Humps for 1 Mile
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Humps for 1 Mile (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 17:09
I suspect that Ring Fencing has raised its head as some of the 'bigger' names are in the bottom half of the table and it is currently so tight.

God forbid if Bath or Leicester - or even Northampton - were at the bottom of the table in May.

Oh dear.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 17:27
Saints have been relegated before.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Fiver (IP Logged)
04 December, 2018 19:14
I simply couldn't imagine Bath or Leicester being allowed to go down. I've always felt that those two were the biggest of the old school tie brigade.

The key thing about mentioning Quins or Northampton going down is that it was some time ago now and the financial stakes are almost incomparable. I can't be bothered to look up the numbers, but the TV revenue, players wage bill, replacing the best players who would leave etc... would be extremely hard to come back from.

 
centrethere
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
centrethere (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 00:37
Perfectly happy to see Bath or Leicester go down.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Fiver (IP Logged)
05 December, 2018 06:09
Oh, don't get me wrong, so am I. I just don't think it would happen, even if one of them did finish 12th.

 
PMB
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
PMB (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 11:51
I just hope that neither Warriors or Chiefs forget where they came from and do not support any ring fence proposal. This season is going to be one of the most exciting for years and probably right up to the last match-remember when we beat Saints (a Drew Hickey winning try in front of the South Stand) and the Saints supporters were sweating on the Quins result? Neither of those two suffered from going down and the parachute payment coupled with the lack of financial support for the Championship virtually guarantees coming straight back up

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 11:53
Exactly my thoughts PMB. Why would we want to give up the moments that make supporting a team like Worcester so good?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 12:08
Its going to happen as is "Br***t"

Live with it and move on.

JP

 
gmem
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
Garym (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 12:36
Quote:
PMB
.... Neither of those two suffered from going down and the parachute payment coupled with the lack of financial support for the Championship virtually guarantees coming straight back up

Doesn't the last part of the sentence imply that relegation is a waste of time?

 
WorcesterSauce
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 12:49
The important thing is garym that the door remains open. If the worst case scenario for the PRL/RFU is a year in the championship (with a parachute payment) sure this is worth keeping the door permanently open for any aspiring championship teams. Keeping relegation at the moment is more about ensuring the premiership keeps it's competitive edge than allowing premiership teams to drop into the championship for years on end because, as you say, that doesn't happen. Eventually a team from the Championship will fancy having a pop at the big time. It could well happen fairly soon with Cornish Pirates getting their stadium.

 
kiddykid
Re: Ring fencing back on the agenda
kiddykid (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 16:05
Rather than ring-fence why not increase the Prem to 14 teams, put out two groups of seven with the two bottom teams going into play-offs and the loser going to the Championship and their champion coming up.
It would see the Prem matching the Frnch Top 14 and also the Celtic Pro 14 so making it easier for Euro comps.
Adopt the Pro 14 system of resting key players IF the current owners agree to relax some of their control for the greater good of the game. Wishful thinking? Probably.


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