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gmem
Jed has gone ....
Garym (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 11:09
Well this should brighten up the board for a couple of days

[www.worcesternews.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 11:10 by Garym.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Fiver (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 11:14
I'm guessing one of two things:

1. Conspiracy theory time, Jed was the front man to look nice enough to buy the club before the mafia step in.
2. The more likely situation that the guys with the money want to do it themselves as they don't trust Jed. A bit like the second restaurant that never does as well as the first, managers just don't have the same drive as owners.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 11:26
Maybe he got bored of being called a ******* when all he was doing was his best so thought 'sod the lot of them' when another option came along

Maybe not, but it's an option c.

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Jed has gone ....
ROLLO (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 11:53
It has been clear for a while that Ged has not been around much and has gone the way of Errol Pope. All very confusing and I guess we will never the know the ins and outs. I always found Ged approachable and open albeit that what he said didn't always add up. I wish him well and we now put our trust in two chaps who we really don't know, but am told by someone who should that they are good people.

 
SimonG19
Re: Jed has gone ....
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 11:59
Quote:
Fiver
I'm guessing one of two things:
1. Conspiracy theory time, Jed was the front man to look nice enough to buy the club before the mafia step in.
2. The more likely situation that the guys with the money want to do it themselves as they don't trust Jed. A bit like the second restaurant that never does as well as the first, managers just don't have the same drive as owners.

Blimey if 1 is true there really is trouble ahead!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 14:48
Oh dear, I'm so shocked...

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 15:05

 
centrethere
Re: Jed has gone ....
centrethere (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 15:30
Nice picture of them here

[www.thevisitor.co.uk]

Was it the cufflinks that...

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:08
The Allen's want out.

Club is put up for sale

Griffiths puts in an offer which is refused - alleged fallout with Greg Allen?

1 other interested consortium.

Greg Allen sells to Jed McCrory led consortium, including Errol Pope and Seymore. Pope website written by an illiterate, he never turns up neither does Seymore.

The whole existing board resigns and leaves the club.

McCrory has a proven dubious financial/management history.

Supporters request a meeting with McCrory or his management team several times to update them on what his plans are for the club. He and his management team refuse all requests.

McCrory meets 6 Supporters for 5 mins in the club bar just before kick off. No feedback from him or any of the supporters present.

Whitingham and Goldring announced as directors on the board. They are already co-owners of Morecambe FC.

Whitingham and Goldring announced as co-owners of Warriors

CVC invest £200m in the premiership to be shared by the 13 shareholders
Clubs.

Morecambe are put up for sale

McCrory leaves the club now owned by Whitingham and Goldring

You're having a laugh!11

Forgive me for saying, but I do not believe we are in safe hands.

JP

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:40
Quote:
JP
McCrory meets 6 Supporters for 5 mins in the club bar just before kick off. No feedback from him or any of the supporters present.

I could go through your whole post JP, but I can't be bothered, to be honest. I can't let that particular statement go, however.

The meeting wasn't for 5 minutes just before kick off, but for 15-20 minutes. There was also feedback posted on here from several of the supporters present. There was also feedback at the WRSC AGM.

The really important bit you've neglected to mention, however, is that you were invited too, I believe, and said you would attend, withdrawing late on. If you were so keen to question Ged, therefore, you had your chance and blew it, basically.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:50
15 to 20 minutes wow!!

I pulled out and told him and the WWSC chairman I was not going to meet in a bar just before KO for such an important meeting. It made a mockery of the meeting and I felt it was extracting the urine.

Obviously you think differently, we all have standards.

I certainly did not, in your words "blow it"

I refused to be treated so shabbily.

Lets see how it all ends up shall we.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:53
Clearly the chap representing the new owners didnít see it as an ďimportant meetingĒ did he?

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 17:06
I am putting the new owners in the same bracket as Ben T'eo

I think the suppoerters are too far down the road, they have taken against them, and will interpret everything to fit that picture.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 17:18
I certainly haven't taken against them and I don't interpret everything to fit any picture.

I have laid out a timetable as best I can remember everyone can "interpret" them anyway they wish.

Mine is that I don not believe we are in safe hands.

That does not mean they are in "bad" hands.

JP

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 17:22
Unsafe and bad are surely synonyms?

You have also stated Morcambe FC is up for sale. Something they have categorically denied.

They have said they will listen to the right offers....but if someone offered me £5000 for my old nail of a car - I'd listen.

It doesn't mean it's up for sale.

You have interpreted that selectively. Not me.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 17:35
It is clearly up for sale the rest is smoke and mirrors.

Not in safe hands is not the same as in unsafe hands.

Bad is not a synonym of unsafe or not safe.

JP

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 17:46
JP - that is an interpretation. You have decided it is all smoke and mirrors, and when you apply your judgment to it it ceases to be a fact and starts to be an opinion.

So d't include it in a list of facts and say anyone is interpreting it their own way, when your hand is clearly on the steering wheel.

Speaking of hands.

So - you are saying that the hands are not safe. Can you please define this position of an absence of safety, which is not unsafe?

And I would say that in the vast majority of cases, unsafe is considered 'bad'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 17:48 by TVM Rides Again.

 
jgmorgan100
Re: Jed has gone ....
The Mailman (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 17:54
OK. I'm completely confused. What the hell does all this mean to an ordinary supporter who hasn't had the time to delve into every detail re: the takeover?

I'm guessing absolutely nobody knows. All I know is that Morecombe FC were promoted from the conference 11 seasons ago and they've constantly flirted with relegation and have never finished above 11th. Sounds like a good fit for us come to think of it!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 18:06
Since weíre talking about confusion......

Letís consider the (confusing) question of Morecombe Football Club being not for sale.

This from the official club statement of 28th May:-

ďMorecambe Football Club has not been put up for sale......Jason said: ďWe have always tried to be very open.........Colin and I would consider the right offer from the right buyer...........But that has not yet been receivedĒ

Iíve edited it a bit.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 18:08
You personally would say that, but the english language does not!

You have your views which is fine, I hope you are right, but i will not have a pop at you for your views or use minutia to trash them. Please allow me the same curtesy.

We have different opinions on what is happening(which is a good thing)only time will tell.

As I have laid out above it leads me to believe we are not in safe hands, obviously you do.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 18:30
JP, Iím taking your last as a response to TVM, not to my immediately preceding post.

Since on this occasion Iím not disagreeing with you!

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 18:43
Quote:
Faithful_City
15 to 20 minutes wow!!
I pulled out and told him and the WWSC chairman I was not going to meet in a bar just before KO for such an important meeting. It made a mockery of the meeting and I felt it was extracting the urine.

Obviously you think differently, we all have standards.

I certainly did not, in your words "blow it"

I refused to be treated so shabbily.

Lets see how it all ends up shall we.

JP

Sorry JP, still not buying it. It was never sold as "an important meeting" much less as "such an important meeting". It was only ever sold as a chance for a few supporters to meet Ged before a game to get an idea of the man himself, hear his plans for the club and ask a few questions about them. You're trying to make it into something it never was to try to justify your mistake in not going.

If you felt that what was needed was a proper meeting on a non-match night, scheduled for a couple of hours, with a proper Q&A session, then you had the perfect opportunity to make that point to his face. I have to question why you didn't take that chance and instead chose to just carp from the sidelines online.

And no, it's not a fact that Morecambe FC is up for sale. Being prepared to listen to someone who comes along and says I'm interested in buying the club, would you sell, is not the same as instructing a firm to market the club and actively seeking offers, such as what Ged Greg Allen did.

That you choose to regard as fact a newspaper report quoting anonymous sources rather than a pretty clear denial from the actual owners is rather telling. Just because you choose to believe the former, however, doesn't make it fact.



Whatever you do, do it safely!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2019 19:58 by Brummagem Bertie.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 18:52
Thank you BB

JP

 
ROLLO on tour
Re: Jed has gone ....
ROLLO (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 21:02
I too went along to the meeting and agree with what BB said about it's remit, and for waht it was billed to be it was fine . I think that I posted afterwards on what had gone on.
Being good people does not prevent them doing bad things , but lets wait to see what happens first.I would prefer to be in our position rather than Wasps.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 21:28
Concur with Rollo.

Ged has gone, his past history is just that, past.

From what I can see re. Goldring and Whittingham, purely by online searches, they seem well intentioned, and well regarded.

Perhaps Gedís departure to a ďnew challengeĒ has been engineered by them, perhaps not. I doubt weíll ever know. They were only ever going to say good things in public.

We were spoiled as supporters by previous regimes having the open evenings, itís not typical, and clearly isnít going to be repeated by our new owners.

I see no reason to panic.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 22:47
Quote:
TT
I see no reason to panic.

I don't do Facebook but from what I've been told, there are one or two on there in serious need of a towel and a copy of THHGTTG. (Sm132) (Sm14)



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
A38
Re: Jed has gone ....
A38 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 22:51
One, two or forty two of them?

 
Eternal optimist
Re: Jed has gone ....
Eternal optimist (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 22:56
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
TT
I see no reason to panic.

I don't do Facebook but from what I've been told, there are one or two on there in serious need of a towel and a copy of THHGTTG. (Sm132) (Sm14)

Itís just not Kricket (Sm71)

 
Latecomer
Re: Jed has gone ....
Latecomer (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 23:01
Quote:
Faithful_City
Please allow me the same curtesy.
JP

'Courtesy' JP, thought for one second you were bending at the knees with one foot in front of the other !!

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 23:45
Quote:
A38
One, two or forty two of them?

Probably best to ask Frankie or Benjy. I do like the fjords, though.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 23:50
Quote:
Eternal optimist
Quote:
Brummagem Bertie
Quote:
TT
I see no reason to panic.

I don't do Facebook but from what I've been told, there are one or two on there in serious need of a towel and a copy of THHGTTG. (Sm132) (Sm14)

Itís just not Kricket (Sm71)

No, it's Brockian Ultra Cricket.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
TeflonTed (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 00:13
Quote:
Latecomer
Quote:
Faithful_City
Please allow me the same curtesy.
JP

'Courtesy' JP, thought for one second you were bending at the knees with one foot in front of the other !!

Now Iím faced with trying to get to sleep with a mental picture of JP in a frilly ball gown bending the knee to Bertie at after-match drinks in the Inn at The Side.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 01:02
Quote:
TeflonTed
Quote:
Latecomer
Quote:
Faithful_City
Please allow me the same curtesy.
JP

'Courtesy' JP, thought for one second you were bending at the knees with one foot in front of the other !!

Now Iím faced with trying to get to sleep with a mental picture of JP in a frilly ball gown bending the knee to Bertie at after-match drinks in the Inn at The Side.

Presumably at the exact same moment as the band starts playing for the Ladies' Excuse Me, with JP declaring in a shrill voice, "I'm a laydee!". (Sm100)



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
usa warrior
Re: Jed has gone ....
usa warrior (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 08:02
[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

Cecil doesn't agree with you JP...

ďI am very impressed with Colin and Jason,Ē Duckworth said.

Asked whether Goldring and Whittingham were in it for the long-haul, Duckworth said: ďVery much so. They are very enthusiastic.

ďThey like the club, the area and are here every week. It is good to have them involved in every aspect of the club.

ďThey are going a great job."

And as another who was at the meeting with BB, I was impressed with Jed and grateful for his time. He was meeting several other groups that same day and took more time to speak to us than I was anticipating.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 08:23
We shall see...

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 08:38
JP - I am not attempting to deprive you of your view, just challenging it. All views should be challenged, I have been virtually hauled into the town square and asked to justify myself by this place more than once - and I like to think I give a good account of myself.

My principal objection is you stating a view but portraying it as an incontrovertible fact, and then telling people you just lay it out for us to play it out - which is simply not the case. That just comes across as trying to herd on-lookers round to your way of thinking.

TT, Rollo and USA all put forward what are clearly views - though in my opinion relatively persuasive ones - that it may* not be as bad as all that. It is my opinion
that so much doom and despondency was put around when they took over, and some were so vehement about it, that they cannot countenance a climb down. But that's understandable enough - I am sure that most of us have been there at some point of other.

*one can never predict the future.

 
Berty13
Re: Jed has gone ....
Berty13 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:00
Sad Jed has gone. At least he was visable around the club. I bumped into him in the club shop and he spoke to me for as long as I wanted. I won't be convinced with Colin and Jason until they sell Morecambe FC but Cecil seems happy with them.

 
Ronster
Re: Jed has gone ....
Drahm for England (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:29
After everything Cecil has done for the club, I am more than happy to take his opinion on this as enough evidence that there is nothing underhand going on, especially as he is more 'in the know' than some of the speculation on this board! Just my opinion, of course.

 
usa warrior
Re: Jed has gone ....
usa warrior (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:31
From what I'm told, Cecil is still very much involved with the club so is certainly knowledgeable. Very happy to accept his viewpoint.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:48
TVM, that simply is not the case.

I am not the slightest bit interested in herding on-lookers to might point of view at all.

I have done what I have said I have done, laid out the information I believe I remember as accurately as the grey cells will let me and then given my option on what it indicates to me.

Just like Parliament there will be 100's of differing views and some may even run out to be accurate, I hope in this case mine turn out to be wrong, but they are what I feel at this point in time.

When a well liked and respected benefactor of a club heaps praise on other members of the club does not mean that always works out well. Remember Charlie Little, Mike Ruddock, Anthony Eddy, the Allens, O'Toole.

I am not having a dig at Cecil I massively respect him, without Cecil we would not exist, he "IS" Worcester Warriors! No matter who you are no-one is infallible and there are some very sharp operators out there that can deceive the best!

To reiterate at this point in time and from what I have seen over the last 24 months I as yet do not believe we are in safe hands.

JP

 
Warrior1988
Re: Jed has gone ....
BromsgroveBeat87 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:50
It would be nice to hear from them but things we do know so far:

- They haven't bulldozed Sixways and sold the land as the doom-mongers predicted.
- Solly is happy with them and their ambitions.
- They want to invest in a new North Stand/hotel/conference facilities.
- They clearly enjoy it here as by all accounts they would happily sell Morecambe to
focus full-time on Worcester.

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Jed has gone ....
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:52
I'm not sure what the issue is here ?

JP wasn't happy with Jed's antecedents when he turned up and is even less happy now he has moved on ?

We are unhappy with Goldring and Whittingham's public personna yet there was never a squeak about our previous owner's preference for their tax haven over sixways ?

Perhaps the question is will the club still be here in ten years time ?
with all the ailments I picked up last season I'm not sure I will but there is one thing I am sure of -
I am more confident supporting a club working on reducing its debt than one relying on it.

 
w4rriorz1980
Re: Jed has gone ....
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:55
I wonder what Morecambe's fans views are on this issue?



Eats,Shoots And Leaves

 
Berty13
Re: Jed has gone ....
Berty13 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:58
A business friend of mine pointed out that there is no money to be made in running any professional sports club and they were just rich people's play things.

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Jed has gone ....
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 10:01
Quote:
w4rriorz1980
I wonder what Morecambe's fans views are on this issue?

Morecambe forum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2019 10:02 by Southstand(again).

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 10:05
Quote:
Berty13
A business friend of mine pointed out that there is no money to be made in running any professional sports club and they were just rich people's play things.

Yonks and yonks ago I did a dissertation on the subject - a receivership and insolvency specialist called (I think - it was 12 years ago now) Lee Manning ended an article about football clubs - 'if anyone asked me about investing in football, I;d advise them not to - if they asked about investing in a rugby club, I'd refer them to a psychologist'

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 10:32
So Jed and Errol Pope have been bought out from there ownership of the Warriors. Either there was disagreements in the board between the owners or it was only a short term thing while the new owners got settled. Personally I don't think this changes much the ownership and owners and very much hidden from us supporters and they clearly don't want much of a public profile but that is there choice. The proof of there suitability for the role will be very much in how the club is run over the next few years.

 
usa warrior
Re: Jed has gone ....
usa warrior (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 10:42
Watch this space in terms of owner engagement... something may be on the horizon.

 
Inbox
Re: Jed has gone ....
Inbox (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 11:30
Love supporting Warriors, like everyone here but would I invest serious dosh/take the risk like others have done of owning our club, Iím not sure that I would.

So I find it incredulous some of the comments about the new owners and about Jed McCrory particularly as most have who never met them!

Frankly if itís for financial gain or massaging their ego, we all know that owning and running Warriors is putting serious money at risk. And more than likely losing it over a period of time.

For all the fears aired here, we have to accept (and be grateful?) these individuals are prepared to take the risk!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 12:38
Inbox I thing you maybe being incredibly naÔve.

Very few club owners are as magnanimous as Cecil.

We may be losing money but we are worth several millions just in CVC investment and shares.

We also have the potential for development land worth lots of millions if Worcester continues to grow.

Our owners have been called ďseveral investors ď investors will eventually want a return somehow. They are not multi-millionaires with a hobby/passion for a club.

I do not feel anymore confident.

JP

 
Southstand(again)
Re: Jed has gone ....
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 13:23
Perhaps, JP you would feel happier if you supported a club that was £50mil in debt. running an annual deficit and financed by an investment bond scheme without a hope in hell of servicing the dividends that are due in May 2022 ?

Derek Richardson has put £18 mil pounds into wasps which was reputedly a third of his worth.
There is no way he will be able to underpin what's on the horizon.

We are now living in a different world from the one that held Cecil's vision for the Warriors and the journey he took us on. The "sugar daddy" is starting to become as rare as Rocking horse shavings.

We need to accept the emergence of the businessmen who use other peoples money to finance and re-finance their business plans.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 13:44
Quote:
Faithful_City
Inbox I thing you maybe being incredibly naÔve.
Very few club owners are as magnanimous as Cecil.

We may be losing money but we are worth several millions just in CVC investment and shares.

We also have the potential for development land worth lots of millions if Worcester continues to grow.

Our owners have been called ďseveral investors ď investors will eventually want a return somehow. They are not multi-millionaires with a hobby/passion for a club.

I do not feel anymore confident.

JP


Which can all be turned into money when and how and for how much?

I genuinely don't know how you;d go about stripping the CVC money and P shares as assets.

The land is such a long term prospect i'd attach very little value to it, personally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2019 13:46 by TVM Rides Again.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 14:29
Quote:
Inbox
Love supporting Warriors, like everyone here but would I invest serious dosh/take the risk like others have done of owning our club, Iím not sure that I would.
So I find it incredulous some of the comments about the new owners and about Jed McCrory particularly as most have who never met them!

Frankly if itís for financial gain or massaging their ego, we all know that owning and running Warriors is putting serious money at risk. And more than likely losing it over a period of time.

For all the fears aired here, we have to accept (and be grateful?) these individuals are prepared to take the risk!

+1 Inbox apart from your first point, if I had the money to fund Worcester Warriors (on the basis I don't see sport as a profit making industry) I would love to do so. However I will need some seriously deep pockets and my lovely wife is already very good at spending all our money so the chances of it happening are less than 1%.

 
Pablo Warrior
Re: Jed has gone ....
Pablo Warrior (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 14:38
Greg Allen allegedly didn't want to sell to Edward Griffiths..........
Greg sells to a consortium fronted by Jed...........
Jed Leaves..........

Giant Leap.........

Is there an opening for Edward Griffiths now Greg has no involvement?

(Sm159)

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 15:49
Quote:
JP
Our owners have been called ďseveral investors ď investors will eventually want a return somehow. They are not multi-millionaires with a hobby/passion for a club.

That's two pretty big assumptions, there, JP, with no evidence to back them up, so far as I am aware. Do you know different or just guessing?



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 15:59
I am not in court!!!

So you think investors donít want a profit, remind me not to go into business with you.

You also think they are multi millionaires with a hobby/passion for Worcester Warriors, remind me never to ask you for a character assessment

JP

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:23
Quote:
Faithful_City
I am not in court!!!
So you think investors donít want a profit, remind me not to go into business with you.

You also think they are multi millionaires with a hobby/passion for Worcester Warriors, remind me never to ask you for a character assessment

JP

No JP. You are not. I am merely inquiring into why you think what you think. If you suspect a ram raid on the clubs assets, you must have some sort of idea?

I have stated I don't know how you'd go about liquidising the CVC money and shares into something usable - but you seem to think they have value to the market place - it was a genuine question.

(I'm ignoring the jibes)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2019 16:28 by TVM Rides Again.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:28
I will leave you to work that out for yourself.

I am sure you have the skills.

JP

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:29
Quote:
Faithful_City
I will leave you to work that out for yourself.
I am sure you have the skills.

JP

Am I to take that as you don't know, you just 'reckon'?

 
A38
Re: Jed has gone ....
A38 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:34
I see from the latest e-mail that there will be a Q&A session with the owners - albeit "on video". Questions to be e-mailed in.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:40
Your choice

JP

 
Abmatt
Re: Jed has gone ....
Abmatt (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:54
Is there any evidence that Jed ever put any money in?

 
Inbox
Re: Jed has gone ....
Inbox (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 17:15
Quote:
Faithful_City
Inbox I thing you maybe being incredibly naÔve.
Very few club owners are as magnanimous as Cecil.

We may be losing money but we are worth several millions just in CVC investment and shares.

We also have the potential for development land worth lots of millions if Worcester continues to grow.

Our owners have been called ďseveral investors ď investors will eventually want a return somehow. They are not multi-millionaires with a hobby/passion for a club.

I do not feel anymore confident.

JP


Well I have run my own business for 20 years so probably not as naive as you think. But Iíll accept that your arrogance on this board is probably greater than it is in person.

But taking your approach, if you intending to buy the club and then frankly dismantle it then really this isnít that clever (as you fear).

You are not realistically going to syphon the CVC monies without accountability, and open yourself to up to potential fraud.

And the land is worth something but only worth a fraction if donít have planning permission granted. If this was a possibility and available for development donít you think that former Board Member Anthony Glossop ( ex MD of St Modwen - one of the largest Property Companies in the UK) might have recommended his business buying the whole site some years ago?

I assume that Cecil has suitably tied up the freehold title to ensure that the club remains protected at Sixways.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 17:23
Go on, I'll have a go - I won't shirk on the challenge winking smiley.

Let's play devil's advocate and assume that they are up to no good.

Let's have a little think about the stuff I don't know about, not really.

The CVC money: Now there was a lot of hoo-ha when they spent £200 million - so thats £15,385,000 per club, near as makes no difference - assuming they are all equal shareholders.

At the rate, the club is losing money, that will be all used up in just shy of 2 years 8 months. Either way, at the time of investment the following statement was released

Quote:
Premiership Rugby says the extra money will not result in a hike in player wages, but will instead go towards improving facilities at club level and growing the league globally.

One assumes if they are making these claims, there was a contract being drawn up between the new shareholders, and those who sold their shares - because CVC know a thing or two, and want some assurances that they weren't buying into a profligate industry that wasn't going to burn through the money leaving them no where to grow. So there will I am sure be a very detailed contract specifying what is expected of the clubs for their part, and what they can and cannot do.

So in reality that cash cannot be liquidised. But it is essentially free money to invest in an asset to make work. That is a good thing for the club, and an owner looking to commit a bit.

So the CVC money is probably off limits - they are total sharks - they dealt with Bernie Ecclestone...the shark's shark - and won.


So how much are the P shares worth?

I should also rather imagine there is a veto for CVC of anyone else buying in. Don't KNOW anything of course. But i would imagine there is. As such, this is possibly a one time deal, until the brand of premiership rugby grows, and CVC want to sell their stake - but that relies on the game and clubs being in rude health - so isn't exactly a downside for us. The clubs also blocked them taking more.


The deal, if the reported £200,000,000 covers the estimated 27% - then in that deal Premiership rugby was valued at an almost pleasing £740,740,741. Meaning each club had basically £57,000,000 in shares. So now have about £42,000,000 left.

All very promising but all highly theoretical.

Something, as I am sure we all know, is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

The last comparable sale we have is Exeter buying poor old Leeds shares in 2012 - for £5,000,000.

Not a bad sum. However, assuming that the sport hasn't ACTUALLY grown 11 fold in the last 9 years - CVC probably paid for some exclusivity!

But again, that's been consumed as a holding cost by the asset you are holding to get at it in under 12 months. Not much of an investment there - even if you can find a buyer in a championship club.

Which one can afford it? There's probably only a couple with ambitions, and what sort of stake can they raise - Exeter were a pretty well off club by championship standards (and still are by premiership standards). So do they have the money to pay a proper return on it?

The pool of prospective purchasers is actually vanishingly small, and none will have MEGA bucks to pay. It's a lot of money to tie up hoping on the CVC plan to come good - The value to another rugby club possibly hasn't moved on that far in reality. The CVC value is pretty theoretical outside of that deal - and IMHO it is safe to assume exclusivity.


I also wonder what debt obligations they have picked up. I know the Allens wrote a lot off, but that was 12 months ago - that £5.8 million has gone somewhere...



These are just some initial thoughts.


I have done the property side to death, save to summarise that both planning and several title issues that I believe to be there would make development in anything but the very long terms largely impractical, and if I wanted to make money from property first and foremost there's many better ways of doing it.

That's just how I see it. If anyone has anything to add beyong 'I reckon they are up to something' - I'll cheerfully listen.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2019 17:31 by TVM Rides Again.

 
Inbox
Re: Jed has gone ....
Inbox (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 18:20
Good shout TVM. Weíre no further forward than we were ... yesterday!

BUT with Solly agreeing his contract then hopefully we can continue to improve next year accepting itís going to be tougher campaign.

And if diggers turn up during next season and planning permission is submitted then Iíll personally acknowledge ďFaithfulĒ was right and buy him a beer before the bar in the East Stand is demolished.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 18:37
It wonít be next season as no chance of getting planning permission. But could be in the next 10 years as Worcester grows along with demand for housing.

JP

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
West Brom Warrior (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 18:41
Quote:
Faithful_City

Our owners have been called ďseveral investors ď investors will eventually want a return somehow. They are not multi-millionaires with a hobby/passion for a club.

I do not feel anymore confident.

JP

Well as we donít know who the investors are we donít know there wealth however as I have previously said having a loss making business is not an issue if you have deep pockets and is an excellent way of writing down some of the tax you owe so a loss making business is not always bad news.

I would also question when you have ever felt confident in the new owners? You have made numerous posts stating judges statements on them and plenty of posts saying in essence it was a bad news takeover for the club. While you are more than welcome to your views I would question if you have ever been confident to suddenly lose confidence.

 
FlipFlop
Re: Jed has gone ....
FlipFlop (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 18:47
As a genuine question- how will any club who plays at a ground they rent for matchday, utilise the CVC money on facilities they donít own?

Not suggesting anything about Warriors but one or two in the Prem who Ďrent a pitchí.

I admit iím Being lazy in not looking at details of CVC money, but while chugging on GWR back to Worcester from London, I was just wondering how, if at all, the CVC money would be handled in such a scenario.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 19:05
Just as a little background to TVM's post, prior to the CVC investment there were 3 classes of shareholding in Premier Rugby Limited (PRL): A shares; B shares; and P shares.

Different rights attached to each class:

- 585 A shares, which were transferable and were the shares that a club built up each season by dint of being in the Prem, and lost a proportion of each season if they were relegated. They were the first class of share to gain entitlement to assets and liabilities in the event of a winding up;

- 480 B shares were distributed equally each season to each club in the Premiership. If you weren't in the Prem you didn't get any. They bore the entitlement to appoint a director to the PRL Board, attend the AGM and Board meetings and vote on resolutions.

- 1040 P shares were split equally into income and capital sub-classes and carried an entitlement to 25% of PRL's distributable income.

As part of the CVC investment new Articles of Association were adopted on 29 March 2019, which changed the rights attaching to the A, B and P shares. PRL resolved to issue a further 200m ordinary £1 shares, which were presumably what CVC got for their investment.

Confusingly, PRL also resolved to convert the 2,105 A, B and P shares into ordinary £1 shares. I say confusingly because there is no mention in the new Articles of Association of ordinary £1 shares, just A, B and P. It's also confusing because CVC were said to have purchased a 27% stake in PRL but if the own 2m ordinary £1 shares and the clubs only own 2,105, CVC own by far the majority of the shares. Absent anything else, they have a controlling interest.

There is, however, mention of a shareholders agreement, which presumably contains some provision in relation to the alloted shares, reflecting the published nature of the deal.

Oh, and the P shares were valued in last year's club accounts at £6,483,082, using a calculation approved by PRL. The PRL Articles of Association also contained a formula for calculating the value of the A shares and contained provisions relating to the sale of both A and P shares, meaning that they can't be sold to just anyone.

Hope that helps.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 19:10
Quote:
Inbox
... And if diggers turn up during next season and planning permission is submitted ... .

During the season will be too soon for the diggers, but with any luck the planning permission will be sorted out during the season so that the diggers can get on site at the end of it.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
Eternal optimist
Re: Jed has gone ....
Eternal optimist (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 19:52
TVM, I presume that the new club owners hold the leasehold but are not the freeholders of the land. If so we donít know the conditions set out within the lease agreement or the contract of sale. No doubt there will be the usual clauses regarding development including an overage clause for at least 21 years Iíd imagine. A decently written overage clause will certainly considerably reduce any profit from the sale to make it unviable.
As they are looking to invest the hotel that would certainly suggest to me a longer term interest
But I guess weíll just have to wait and see.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 20:00
The new owners own the Freehold!

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 20:21
Quote:
Faithful_City
The new owners own the Freehold!

That's about the first factual thing you've said, JP. (Sm100)

It is true, though, via MQ Property Co Ltd, last time I looked. IIRC there is then a long lease to Link Corporate Trustees UK Ltd (999 years?) with a lease back to WRFC Trading Ltd for 175 years.

Not sure whether Ged leaving has changed any of that in any way.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
centrethere
Re: Jed has gone ....
centrethere (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 08:28
TVM,
£8.2m from CVC was reported
[www.worcesternews.co.uk]

 
A38
Re: Jed has gone ....
A38 (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 08:54
Questions to the new owners?

How about something like: "The club has seen significant changes in ownership and coaches over recent years. It was pleasing therefore to see the news that Alan Solomons has agreed to a new contract. This will bring stability and continuity on the rugby side, somethings which have been variable in the past. Can we, as supporters, now look for similar long term stability from you as owners?"

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 09:25
No it wasn't BB (Sm100)

JP

 
Bushi
Re: Jed has gone ....
Bushi (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 10:03
All this talk about redeveloping Sixways seems bonkers to me. If I was an investor looking to buy land to redevelop I wouldn't buy something that was already redeveloped and would cost me £6-£8mio per year. I'd buy a piece of farmland on the outskirts of the city, far cheaper to buy, no year-on-year losses.

Personally I think they are looking for a return, but a medium/long term return. Maybe they see a massive potential in Rugby. Lets face it CVC must, hence the reason they've invested. Get the the club breaking even in a couple of years with thanks to the CVC money being invested into the facility. Sit on it a for a few more years and as the popularity of the sports growns, the value of their investment will grow. Have an exit plan in 7-8 years.

 
Warrior1988
Re: Jed has gone ....
BromsgroveBeat87 (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 14:33
No need for any more assumptions, we can submit our questions for the owners here

 
neiljk
Re: Jed has gone ....
neiljk (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 18:36
The Q and A is unlikely to shed much light. They arenít Bond villains, inclined to tell us their dastardly plan while they have us pinned down. Whatever their true motivation is will only become clear with time.

Personally Iím glad McGrory is gone. His track record and reputation arenít exactly stellar. As for the mysterious Errol Pope, who knows.

All told though this is an odd story. Doors have revolved, people have come and gone, accounts have been late and some time later weíre none the wiser. How and why this has all come about is a bit of a mystery, and if itís a nefarious way to get hold of a bit of land it seems an odd way to go about it.

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 12:03
Update from Companies House.

Militibus Quanco Limited (the holding company above WRFC Trading Limited) has filed notices that confirm Ged is no longer a person with significant control and that there is now a Relevant Legal Entity with significant control, namely Bond Group Sixways Limited.

Bond Group Sixways Limited is a company that has only one director and shareholder, Jason Whittingham, and was incorporated nearly 12 months ago, on 22 June 2018.

Interestingly, BGSL is said in the filing by MQL to own not more than 50% of the shares and voting rights, which begs the question as to where the other 50% of Ged's shareholding has gone.



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
neiljk
Re: Jed has gone ....
neiljk (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 13:50
BGSL were incorporated under that name and from what I can see Whittingham has and is the only director. Why would you create a new company with Sixways in itís name some months prior to the McGrory deal?

Does this not suggest other people have been involved all along.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Jed has gone ....
Faithful_City (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 14:01
I would imagine CVC own 27%

JP

 
Brummagem Bertie
Re: Jed has gone ....
Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 15:00
Quote:
Faithful_City
I would imagine CVC own 27%
JP

And why would you imagine that, JP?



Whatever you do, do it safely!

 
neiljk
Re: Jed has gone ....
neiljk (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 16:07
CVC and the prem clubs share ownership of Premiership rugby, no indication CVC bought a holding in any of the clubs.

 
TVM Rides Again....Again
Re: Jed has gone ....
TVM Rides Again (IP Logged)
16 June, 2019 08:58
Quote:
neiljk
CVC and the prem clubs share ownership of Premiership rugby, no indication CVC bought a holding in any of the clubs.

Preciesely.

CVC own 27% (or is it 45 now?) the remainder is owned by the Rugby clubs as independent bodies.

If CVC owned 27% of us, a necessary extension of that logic is that each premiership club owns a bit of each of the other ones....


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