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Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Selgwent (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 01:16

Dear Mr. Holland,

Do you get it yet?

Unfortunately, you have landed in a mess not of your making. When you arrived, you made some silly statements but, having listened to us fans, took the brave decision to take on the All Mighty Blues Board and return to the CAP for two (let’s face it) not very capacity challenging games.

Unfortunately for the Board, the 8000 (limited capacity certificate) v Connacht and 8600 (not full capacity certificate) v Ulster, proved a bit embarrassing. They increased our seasonal averages significantly.

Never mind, with remaining fixtures v the Scarlets and Ospreys coming up, a return to the CCS and its comfy lounges could be excused. After all, the massive crowds these games would engender would necessitate the switch, would they not?

Blues v Scarlets ~ 8337
Blues v Ospreys ~ 8396

So the total benefit, in comparison to the average of the two games at the Arms Park = 133!

Full and unequivocal justification for the switch to CCS: NOT!

Do you get it yet?

And the ‘Goodbye to Nugget’ you have planned: just how embarrassing to a great player will that be? CCS, Sunday afternoon, with little public transport in place?

Do you get it yet?

If you don’t…………………………………….

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: shrekogre (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 15:28

As you can see Mr Holland, if we move back to CAP all our problems will be solved. I dont think.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: smudgerblue (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 15:54

but it would be a start......

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: hands in the ruck (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 17:44

we need a team first

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: amstel (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 18:34

Quote:
hands in the ruck
we need a team first
We got coaches but no team !

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: shrekogre (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 18:53

Having been in Dublin last week supporting my team, not a stadium (CAP). I noted that the stadium was on the outskirts of Dublin in an area predominatly residential. The beer and food was expensive in comparison to that charged at other grounds in the UK. The stadium is not warm and welcomming, whilst atractive in its own way. The comparison to that of the City Stadium in location, refreshment cost and coldness was a mirror image. Yet 50,000 people turned up to watch the game. The RDS is across the road from the stadium and I ventured to have a look. This stadium is frequently sold out. Is the location of the CCS and its simularities to these two stadium the real issue regarding poor attendances. The CAP was only ever on one occassion I recall ever a sell out of 15,000. Is the real issue over the last 3 years, the stadium or the team. The Blues had a good run in winning the Amlin, attendances did not improve, so a succesful team did not increase support. Mr Holland has to embrace a wider audiance and break down the resentment and tribalism felt against anything Cardiff.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Wideboy82 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 19:30

The problem is the product on the pitch! Can you really expect people to travel to either stadium, pay £20 to watch a match made up of players you have hardly heard of playing shocking rugby?!
I don't think you can do anything about players signing big money contracts in France or wherever. But the club needs a number (10+) of quality players who are available all season, mixed with a handful or internationals and a few development players here and there.
Put something decent on to watch and people will turn up to be part of it, whether its Friday evening, Saturday or Sunday afternoon.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: hands in the ruck (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 20:24

ospreys have lost a lot of players but the squad is still in fairly good order, that is compared to ours

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Hairy Powell (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 21:29

and was twice as big as ours to begin with

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Stevenjp74 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 22:15

Quote:
shrekogre
Having been in Dublin last week supporting my team, not a stadium (CAP). I noted that the stadium was on the outskirts of Dublin in an area predominatly residential. The beer and food was expensive in comparison to that charged at other grounds in the UK. The stadium is not warm and welcomming, whilst atractive in its own way. The comparison to that of the City Stadium in location, refreshment cost and coldness was a mirror image. Yet 50,000 people turned up to watch the game. The RDS is across the road from the stadium and I ventured to have a look. This stadium is frequently sold out. Is the location of the CCS and its simularities to these two stadium the real issue regarding poor attendances. The CAP was only ever on one occassion I recall ever a sell out of 15,000. Is the real issue over the last 3 years, the stadium or the team. The Blues had a good run in winning the Amlin, attendances did not improve, so a succesful team did not increase support. Mr Holland has to embrace a wider audiance and break down the resentment and tribalism felt against anything Cardiff.

The most sense I've seen put forward on this board. I was there in Dublin too supporting my team - and I'll continue to do that.... 'support' my team, wherever they play. CCS would be great if full of people who cared.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: BlueButtyBoy (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 23:31

Thinking of this, maybe we need to separate the Cardiff from the Blues.

Glamorgan Blues, Glamorgan Giants etc

Again, we need to spread the franchise games around the region.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Laulala was a tellytuby wasn't he? (IP Logged)
Date: 15 April, 2012 23:57

Quote:
Stevenjp74
Quote:
shrekogre
Having been in Dublin last week supporting my team, not a stadium (CAP). I noted that the stadium was on the outskirts of Dublin in an area predominatly residential. The beer and food was expensive in comparison to that charged at other grounds in the UK. The stadium is not warm and welcomming, whilst atractive in its own way. The comparison to that of the City Stadium in location, refreshment cost and coldness was a mirror image. Yet 50,000 people turned up to watch the game. The RDS is across the road from the stadium and I ventured to have a look. This stadium is frequently sold out. Is the location of the CCS and its simularities to these two stadium the real issue regarding poor attendances. The CAP was only ever on one occassion I recall ever a sell out of 15,000. Is the real issue over the last 3 years, the stadium or the team. The Blues had a good run in winning the Amlin, attendances did not improve, so a succesful team did not increase support. Mr Holland has to embrace a wider audiance and break down the resentment and tribalism felt against anything Cardiff.

The most sense I've seen put forward on this board. I was there in Dublin too supporting my team - and I'll continue to do that.... 'support' my team, wherever they play. CCS would be great if full of people who cared.

Quote:
BlueButtyBoy
Thinking of this, maybe we need to separate the Cardiff from the Blues.
Glamorgan Blues, Glamorgan Giants etc

Again, we need to spread the franchise games around the region.

Firstly Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht do not have to compete with Football like we do in South Wales. The Irish sports often draw big crowds of course, but i just don't see them as the same level of competition.

The problem with all these ideas is that these people simply haven't come to watch Cardiff Blues at the CCS. Attendances are shocking, if more and more of the traditional fans leave, which has happened season on season since the move and they aren't replaced by new supporters (which hasn't happened so far, the attendances don't lie) what are we left with? Playing in front of 2,000 at Sardis? Or 1,000 in Ely?? Good luck having a sustainable future with that!

Realistically there are two venues that are viable venues in the region. Holland has to work out a way to keep traditional fans interested while welcoming new fans. Personally i think the only way forward is to play all but the HEC games and the Welsh derby's at CAP. Firstly the money made from 8,000 at CAP is more than the equivalent at CCS. Then play the 6 games where we should be getting more than 12,000 at the CCS. To do this and keep the fans onside he also needs to get out of the ridiculous lease at CCS. Id even be tempted to play all games at CAP and move if we can attract more than capacity, be that to the MS or the CCS. That is how the successful models in English rugby tend to work.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: bluebadger (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 09:32

Once again more about comfy chairs than the team. The players loved playing at the arms with the twitters and Patterson holding up his sign and Holland started off on the wrong foot by telling people what and what not they should watch.
Do you think in his previous job he ignored the punters wishes and turned the racecourse into an all seater stadium to you think that would be a roaring success? I doubt it

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: sphagc (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 11:54

Leinester only took out the lease with the RDS when their own ground at Donnybrook became too small due to selling out of games there! Compare that with the move from CAP where weren't even selling out the CAPs (with paying customers!) to trying to fill the CCS with freebie customers!

Oh and we also took the big games to the MS the same as Leinster took last Saturday's game to the Aviva - we still have this option when at the CAP!

The move is nothing less than financial suicide, what should have happened was a major effort to sell-out CAP with paying customers and maximising income from the central location of CAP. Only when this was maxed out should then a move to a large location have been looked at!, instead we have PT and cronies leading the club to financial bankruptcy!

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Neil (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 15:08

Quote:
BlueButtyBoy
Thinking of this, maybe we need to separate the Cardiff from the Blues.
Glamorgan Blues, Glamorgan Giants etc

Again, we need to spread the franchise games around the region.
So you want to pay the shareholders of the team to do this then?
I await your (cash only) offer....

It is not a f'ing franchise at all it is a limited company FFS Do you all know so little about the set up of 'your sport'
It just gets more farcial



___________________________________________________________

Soldier: This is the worst part. The calm before the battle
Fry: And then the battle is not so bad?
Soldier: Oh, right. I forgot about the battle

Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: cardiffsteve (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 15:11

Quote:
Neil
Quote:
BlueButtyBoy
Thinking of this, maybe we need to separate the Cardiff from the Blues.
Glamorgan Blues, Glamorgan Giants etc

Again, we need to spread the franchise games around the region.
So you want to pay the shareholders of the team to do this then?
I await your (cash only) offer....

It is not a f'ing franchise at all it is a limited company FFS Do you all know so little about the set up of 'your sport'
It just gets more farcial

I'm getting worried about your blood pressure. Have you tried Tai Chi?

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Neil (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 15:18

Far too many apologists on this here bored



___________________________________________________________

Soldier: This is the worst part. The calm before the battle
Fry: And then the battle is not so bad?
Soldier: Oh, right. I forgot about the battle

Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Neil (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 15:19

Quote:
cardiffsteve
Quote:
Neil
Quote:
BlueButtyBoy
Thinking of this, maybe we need to separate the Cardiff from the Blues.
Glamorgan Blues, Glamorgan Giants etc

Again, we need to spread the franchise games around the region.
So you want to pay the shareholders of the team to do this then?
I await your (cash only) offer....

It is not a f'ing franchise at all it is a limited company FFS Do you all know so little about the set up of 'your sport'
It just gets more farcial

I'm getting worried about your blood pressure. Have you tried Tai Chi?
BP is fine ta ever so...
Does Tai Chi do a vegan option like mmmmm winking smiley



___________________________________________________________

Soldier: This is the worst part. The calm before the battle
Fry: And then the battle is not so bad?
Soldier: Oh, right. I forgot about the battle

Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: cardiffsteve (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 18:08

Quote:
Neil
Quote:
cardiffsteve
I'm getting worried about your blood pressure. Have you tried Tai Chi?
BP is fine ta ever so...
Does Tai Chi do a vegan option like mmmmm winking smiley

Ah, you've confused her with something else entirely. She'll be upset now.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: blueshuw (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 18:45

The idea that shares in Cardiff RFC Ltd are worth anything looks incorrect.I have a few and consider them worthless.CAC have written down the value of their shares in Cardiff RFC Ltd to zero-so seem to agree.It would be more a case of buying the Company for a pound and taking on the debts.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Neil (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 20:39

Quote:
blueshuw
The idea that shares in Cardiff RFC Ltd are worth anything looks incorrect.I have a few and consider them worthless.CAC have written down the value of their shares in Cardiff RFC Ltd to zero-so seem to agree.It would be more a case of buying the Company for a pound and taking on the debts.
the shares never did have a 'real worl' finacial value. their value was (is?) as first an investment into the club to kick start the pro game here and as tool for the shareholder to use to control the company. Sadly we as shareholders have failed spectacularly to do!!!
It isn't all over just yet but until PT can be persuaded to step aside (without taking his loans back out!) and CAC and the M & AA of the company overhauled to bring it out of the Dickensian gloom it was created in then NOTHING is going to change.



___________________________________________________________

Soldier: This is the worst part. The calm before the battle
Fry: And then the battle is not so bad?
Soldier: Oh, right. I forgot about the battle

Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Neil (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 20:40

Quote:
cardiffsteve
Quote:
Neil
Quote:
cardiffsteve
I'm getting worried about your blood pressure. Have you tried Tai Chi?
BP is fine ta ever so...
Does Tai Chi do a vegan option like mmmmm winking smiley

Ah, you've confused her with something else entirely. She'll be upset now.
(Sm123)



___________________________________________________________

Soldier: This is the worst part. The calm before the battle
Fry: And then the battle is not so bad?
Soldier: Oh, right. I forgot about the battle

Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: blueshuw (IP Logged)
Date: 16 April, 2012 23:51

I'm not sure whether there is much chance of PT leaving without his loans or not.I only have access to info in the public domain-no real contacts .However,the cuts in players wage costs,coaching costs(no DoR) and management looks like an attempt to get CRFC Ltd to break even.No more costs for PT.What then? It's likeley to be a mainly losing side- at least in the short term.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: Laulala was a tellytubby wasn't he? (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 00:27

Quote:
blueshuw
I'm not sure whether there is much chance of PT leaving without his loans or not.I only have access to info in the public domain-no real contacts .However,the cuts in players wage costs,coaching costs(no DoR) and management looks like an attempt to get CRFC Ltd to break even.No more costs for PT.What then? It's likeley to be a mainly losing side- at least in the short term.

Id suggest there is some way to go before they break even as well, so more cuts to be made. I think mainly a losing side is an understatement.

As they still would get a 1/4 cut of the HEC money even if they don't qualify (like the Dragons do now), I'm even beginning to wonder if it would save more money to have really cheap squad, not even qualify for the HEC, take the 1/4 share of the money, and lose out on the Gate and Box money for the HEC.

 
Re: Dear Mr. Holland
Posted by: theArmsPark.co.uk Admin (IP Logged)
Date: 17 April, 2012 10:35

Until the WRU take responsibility for the dire state of Welsh club rugby and do something about it, I cannot see our situation changing.

While it's easy to blame Holland and PT for this mess (and to be fair, the stadium is obviously the latter's fault) I think there are much bigger issues which desperately NEED to be addressed.

How do the regions 'represent' Ponty and Cardiff when they could be playing at the exact same time? The NZ model is urgently needed if 'regional' rugby is ever going to work.

Kick off times aren't the Blues' fault. WRU cave into the TV demands far too easily.

Add to that the shambles of a league we are in - nothing wrong with the teams in it, but I wonder how many Edinburgh fans will be at the CCS for the last game of the season? Let's ditch the Rabo as soon as possible and do whatever it takes to get into the English league.

I believe that until dramatic changes are madd to the way the game is structured in Wales then there's very little Cardiff Blues (CRFC Ltd) can do to make this sustainable.



Admin of theArmsPark.co.uk,
Make Noise and You Will Be Heard!

http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/170/170_0_1264029860.jpg

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