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Leeds Carnegie have a problem
1spy (IP Logged)
06 March, 2019 17:49
Report in this weeks Rugby Paper concerning the clubs poor finances.losing players due to not having funds to offer players new contracts next season.Players have called a meeting to discuss issue.Also mentioned moving away to save £400,000 a year ground rent.Club lost £1 million pounds sponsorship from University Trust.Worth a read in The Rugby Paper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 17:50 by 1spy.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
2Harbourview (IP Logged)
06 March, 2019 18:14
I remember years ago when I was living in Blackpool and going to Fylde games, they had just had the partnership with the Rhinos and Wendell Sailor played (another story). They were on the way up but the fans, many from the Headingley RFC days, hated playing at the Stadium. Felt they had lost something and i am not sure they ever really got it back

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
yeldor (IP Logged)
10 March, 2019 18:23
Ask LI if we have problem playing rugby 🏉. Yes sarcasm Iím dealing in here . Good luck to you. From the frozen wasteland of Yorkshire.



sent off carried off never backed off

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
wigston pirate (IP Logged)
12 March, 2019 13:15
Did read the article in TRP and the previous week there was discussions to be held with the board and players. It appears they could move from Headingley and to be honest a soulless place, such a vast stadium and so few inside.Hope they can sort out something by the end of the season as they have Chris Sterling is in place and Dave Ward mentioned in the past to take on a coaching role next season.


(Sm109)

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
1spy (IP Logged)
12 March, 2019 15:14
This weeks TRP on page 2 reports the players demanding the Chairman resigns.The £2 million pound loss of funding has put the club in a very serious position.Speculation they will go part time next season or a threat of administration.Hope they can sort future out.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
12 March, 2019 17:44
It doesn't sound good if you're a Leeds fan on reading their forum. They have accrued £4.4M of debt since 2017. There is a link to an article in the Yorkshire post by Chris Stirling who criticises their board for not being honest with the players and him. He states they only have 8 players signed for next year as they were brought in on 18 month deals but he's not sure if that will be honoured.His own position appears uncertain but his number 1 priority is the players.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
cheshire exile (IP Logged)
14 March, 2019 10:46
Complete mess and yet another illustration of the gulf between the Premiership (now wallowing in venture capital cash) and the championship.
The Premiership is going the same way as its wendyball equivalent, spending all the external injections of money on inflated wages. Some of the figures being bandied around for overseas signings in particular are mind boggling if even remotely accurate.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
almostatyke (IP Logged)
14 March, 2019 19:39
Yorkshire Carnegie moderator here: I concur completely with Cheshire exile above. Yes we have a problem, but although we have attracted a lot of criticism (but not on your board, this is why I am posting) the big thing is that we are not following London Welsh by signing lots of expensive players in the hope that a Fairy Godmother will arise to pay the bills.
We have dreamt of competing for promotion to the Premiership, hence retaining use of Headingley stadium, but our search for financial backers has so far not worked. Seems the CVC Premiership money was enough for our main backer (and any sane businessman, to be fair) to say that the pitch was sloping up so much against us that sustainable promotion was not achievably without Abromovich-type money.
Our future is uncertain, but I suspect that we are not going to be worse off than, perhaps half of the other Championship clubs.
And all this is so ironic in that our present young squad has proved it is a viable stepping stone to a serious promotion challenge having completely outplayed London Irish.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Black Bart (IP Logged)
14 March, 2019 20:50
Well said and good luck. Hope things get sorted

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Geoff DC (IP Logged)
14 March, 2019 20:54
Quote:
almostatyke
all this is so ironic in that our present young squad has proved it is a viable stepping stone to a serious promotion challenge having completely outplayed London Irish.

How many weeks are they left with you before they move on ??

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
almostatyke (IP Logged)
14 March, 2019 22:18
Sadly they have been told that there are no new contracts available so the majority will move on at the end of the season. Really sad as some have been really good players for years and also the star youngsters our Academy has produced are now going off with negligible appearances for our first team, including one currently playing for England U20.
It costs a lot to run a rfu academy but we have not been able to reap the benefits as the talent we produce moves straight on to Premiership clubs. Bath have poached our Academy Manager, John Pendlebury and pick off our starlets as they develop.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 13:34
Latest report in the Yorkshire post is an interview with their CEO who admitted that the club was handed back to the current board in 2014 debt free. The board had managed to raise an additional £5M but that had now gone. They had set a budget of £2.3M for this season but next year it would be reduced to £1.3M which is in keeping with a number of other championship clubs.
I'm not sure that there will be much sympathy for their board based on this account and these figures.
It should make us all appreciate even more what Dicky Evans,his fellow board members and our sponsors have done for the club since we entered the professional era.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
*Stalwart (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 16:00
It's a mess. They seem to have brought in Chris Stirling, and all the players he's brought in, on false promises that they were never going to be able to keep. As P15 says, we are very fortunate to have Dicky and the present board running the club on a sensible business footing.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
almostatyke (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:27
Sorry disagree about Yorkshire, Stalward. Our main backer, the founder and CEO of exercise4less was backing us until the huge CVC Premiership investment came in and distorted our aims. Following his withdrawal the other directors are continuing to run the club within budget. We are now at normal Championship level.

I'm sure your club would do the same.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
*Stalwart (IP Logged)
15 March, 2019 19:48
Quote:
almostatyke
Sorry disagree about Yorkshire, Stalward. Our main backer, the founder and CEO of exercise4less was backing us until the huge CVC Premiership investment came in and distorted our aims. Following his withdrawal the other directors are continuing to run the club within budget. We are now at normal Championship level.
I'm sure your club would do the same.

Fair enough. Unfortunately there are victims who thought they were signing up to something which has now evaporated. Good luck for the future, let's hope the club can stabilise and build proper finance and playing foundations.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
AnIdiotAbroad (IP Logged)
18 March, 2019 19:53
Andy Rock is at Bath, JP is at Wasps.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
bolingey pirate (IP Logged)
08 April, 2019 20:11
According to the Carnegie Unofficial site, there is to be a major meeting of staff and players tomorrow, to discuss the club's financial position....watch that space!!

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
09 April, 2019 18:13
Worrying news coming out of Yorkshire after today's players meeting.They have been unable to attract new funding and currently the club cannot offer the players any new contracts. The budget for next season will be £500k and they will go part-time. Huge implications for the players,coach Chris Stirling and their fans.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
*Stalwart (IP Logged)
09 April, 2019 18:25
It feels like this has been coming for quite a long time. It seems they had a massive budget for this season, only LI and Ealing had bigger budgets. Hope they can steady the ship, live within their means and survive. They probably need to get out of Headingley and have their own ground (similar to what Nottingham did). It's tough on their players and Chris Stirling who seem to have been recruited without being made aware of the full facts.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
09 April, 2019 21:10
Club statement "Greene King IPA Championship side Yorkshire Carnegie have revealed that the search for new investors for the season 2019-20 has not yet been successful.
Unless new investment can be found, the club cannot afford to continue at its current level of investment and the Rugby budget is likely to be significantly reduced for next season, to a level which is more in line with a number of other Greene King IPA Championship clubs.
Yorkshire Tykes Chairman David Dockray said, ďOver four years ago we formed a new company to take over the ownership of the club, and by the end of this season, our Shareholders and other providers of capital will have funded investments of around £5million in the club. This has been an outstanding contribution of Shareholders' own money and time.
"However, it will not be possible for the current Shareholder Group to continue funding at that level and so various actions have taken place to try and secure new and additional sources of funding. Unfortunately, these efforts have not yet proved successful, and therefore for next season we will have to accommodate a significant reduction in the level of funding available and adopt a new model for the operations of the club. This outcome is frustrating and disappointing for all of us, especially given our successes on the field since the turn of the year," added Dockray.
Gary Hetherington, Yorkshire Carnegie Chief Executive added, "David and I met with the players and staff five weeks ago to explain the clubís situation and we have now given them a further update on our current position. Our hope remains that we can restructure our Rugby model for next season, operating within a significantly reduced budget with no liabilities carried over from this season. This is an extremely difficult and disappointing time for everyone connected with Yorkshire Carnegie, including our loyal supporters, past and current players and staff, and the many people who are working hard to preserve a future for the Club. We will provide a further update before the end of the season."

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
*Stalwart (IP Logged)
10 April, 2019 10:08
It's very difficult to sustain a full time squad in The Championship, and many clubs rely on benefactors to keep them afloat. Shows even more how we need the stadium to give us a chance of creating a sustainable business model and have the opportunity to go for promotion. I just wish we could hear something about the government funding as everything seems to hinge on that.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
10 April, 2019 20:55
There is an article in the Yorkshire Post on the latest woes concerning Yorkshire Carnegie. It quotes an unnamed 1st team player who said that the players have been told that they may not get paid for the remainder of this season. In light of that they are considering boycotting Sundays game against Doncaster. He also states that next years budget of £500k does not cover the wages of the 8 contracted players. If that is true they get very little sympathy from me as they are clearly living well beyond their means. If they fail to honour the fixture against Doncaster I'm pretty sure they will be in trouble with the championship and RFU regulators and may not be allowed to compete in next seasons championship.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
*Stalwart (IP Logged)
10 April, 2019 20:57
Sounds pretty serious. It's terrible for players and staff who have been badly let down if this story is true.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Eastanglianpirate (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 08:33
Their next game happens to be against us, hope they turn up as the game is the biggest part of our big reunion Easter weekend in Penzance! Very sad affair if all above is true.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
old prop steve (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 13:33
There but for the grace of RGRE go we.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
bolingey pirate (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 18:40
Despite all their troubles, Carnegie beat Doncaster 22 - 12 today........somebody needs a medal for motivating their squad after an awful week. Next week's game will be very interesting with 5th playing 6th with only one point in it !!

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
1spy (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 08:23
bolingey pirate i think Chris Stirling is tops at motivation.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
1spy (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 14:49
Big article in todays "The Rugby Paper" that both Chris Stirling and Dave Ward are uncertain about their futures at the Club.Dave Ward opted to leave Quins with a year to go on his contract to take up a coaching position.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate4ever (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 16:44
Chris Sterling to be Pirates biggest signing this summer

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
welshpirate (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 19:08
Hmm, putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5?

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
bolingey pirate (IP Logged)
16 April, 2019 00:26
No smoke without fire, Welsh Pirate !!

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate4ever (IP Logged)
17 April, 2019 15:49
Happily bet you a pint of Tribute smiling smiley

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
bolingey pirate (IP Logged)
17 April, 2019 16:21
Well, that is interesting !!!!

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2019 18:17
Reported on twitter that there is a board meeting this afternoon which neither Ian McGeechan or Chris Stirling have been invited to attend.It is suggested that the outcome will determine the future of the club.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
19 April, 2019 13:14
Their is an update on the YC website from a meeting last week between the the board and supporters club. Confirmation that they will be part time next season budget expected to be £1M for all rugby matters. Don't know what this means for DoR Chris Stirling and the players he signed on 18 month contracts.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate4ever (IP Logged)
19 April, 2019 15:54
CS will be a Pirate come next season!

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Pirate15 (IP Logged)
02 June, 2019 13:16
It doesn't look good for YC according to today's rugby paper. It appears that the club are heading towards a Company Voluntary Arrangement(CVA) as they have been unable to reach an agreement with the 8 players currently under contract for next season. These are the players signed by Chris Stirling on 18 month contracts last October/November. The future of the club will now rest in the hands of creditors and if agreement is not reached then they will be wound up and not play in this seasons championship. On the Rolling Maul Forum it suggests that if this cannot be sorted out by 1st August Richmond will remain in the league. Its a very worrying time for YC and their supporters but is equally unfair on Richmond who are left in limbo and cannot effectively plan for next season.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
old prop steve (IP Logged)
02 June, 2019 13:20
According to todays Rugby Paper things sadly seem to have got worse rather than better. The article then blithely states that if Leeds Carnegie fail to satisfy their creditors and go into liquidation the Championship will then be limited to 11 teams because according to the organisational geniuses at the Rugby Union 'it is too late to redraw the fixture lists'. Really?

Given the circumstances in which Richmond were sent down largely because the RFU were mentally incapabable of writing a coherent set of rules which might have prohibited Hartpury from driving a bus through the spirit of the competition you would have thought Richmond would have been given a reprieve and Championship fans would have had 11 other teams to watch next season. But no - too hard!

Perhaps Carnegie will pull some irons out of the fire - lets hope so for the sake of the sport in the North.

Meanwhile the laptop layabouts at Twickenham go on eating their dinners. zzzzz

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
1spy (IP Logged)
09 June, 2019 17:10
Detailed discussion on Championship future and Leeds fall on Will Greenwoods Sky Sports Rugby Podcast. Pirates get positive mention.Unfortunately not looking good at Leeds.
Worth a listen sorry no good at the Link but it is on Tykes Unofficial Forum.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Longrockerz1 (IP Logged)
10 June, 2019 09:50
Here's the link. Will Greenwood pod cast

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
1spy (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 21:23
Leeds Directors have proposed applying for a CVA . See details of statement on their website. Remember London Welsh?

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
*Stalwart (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:22
With the publishing of the fixture list imminent it seems likely that Leeds will be included. As they have no team and no coach I wonder how they'll get 15 on the field for the first game.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
cornishbob (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:30
Such a shame that this once great club should be in this position. I hope they can pull things round and survive. There but the grace of Dicky go us.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
old prop steve (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 11:53
The entire sport clearly needs some sensible direction - Yorkshire Carnegie are just the latest in a whole sorry litany of clubs which have gone professional since 1995 and got themselves into serious trouble. I only wish I had any confidence in the RFU and the Premiership to face up to the problem. Never mind about running after World Cups - if the base falls apart what is left?

The list of those who teetered on the brink is staggering - Wasps, Bristol, Richmond,London Welsh, London Scottish, Coventry, Birmingham-Solihull, Orrell, Wakefield, Bedford, Rotherham,Plymouth Albion, Manchester plus a few others - it just goes on and on. Pirates got far too close for comfort about 3 seasons ago as well until RGRE thankfully came back in again and pulled us back from the fire.

Furthermore you can't build a sustainable sport indefintely on the generosity of a few wealthy individuals as YC have unfortunately found to their cost. This is as true of the Pirates going forward over the next two decades in their new stadium as it is of Bath and Bruce Craig, Saracens and Nigel Wray and the money men at Bristol and Ealing.

Whatever is done will be controversial and I dont expect everyone to agree with me - far from it - but here's one for starters.

A maximum annual wage for individual players and clubs ganging together and refusing to pay agents might be a start. So much precious income keeps getting frittered away on a few expensive overseas 'stars' to the detriment of both developing the rest of the squads and the viability of the clubs concerned. Yes there would be the inevitable internet and newspaper outcry and some of our current stars would decamp to France and Japan but rugby is the epitome of a 'team game' and frankly none of them are irreplaceable. A bit of short term pain might assist a long term gain.

What do others think? What else would make an impact?

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Black Bart (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 19:57
Well put Steve; but Iím not too sure of the answer or if indeed there is one

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
almostatyke (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 18:37
Excellent post old prop steve - as ever the quality and balance of posts on this board are impressive.


Ironically Yorkshire recognised the danger of having a single sugar daddy when our previous one took our parachute payment, on relegation from the Premiership, as part repayment for past "loans". Sadly nobody in Yorkshire was willing to back the team except for one guy whose business seems to have fallen into disarray suddenly without warning.

 
Re: Leeds Carnegie have a problem
Surrey Pirate (IP Logged)
16 June, 2019 10:32
Steve, you mentioned Birmingham and Solihull - and things there have taken a dreadful turn over the past month or so. They were relegated from National Two South at the end of April this year and have now pulled out of playing Midland Premier League rugby (Level 5), instead dropping down to Midland Merit League rugby - effectively outside of the RFU leagues.


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