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Diesel74
Finances and the championship
Diesel74 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 13:07
If we were to win the title this year, how would finances work next season?
There would be five fewer games at Butts Park Arena, as things stand, which would mean five fewer pay days.
I'm sure there are plans for more sponsors et al, but revenue streams seem a bit skewed.
What's anyone else's take on this?
Mark

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Finances and the championship
Kimbo (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 13:55
Bit early to make any kind of assumptions TBF.
I'd like to think the RFU have something good to announce re. the replacement for the Joke Cup, but this is the RFU, remember.
There's a chunk of central funding to come, and as you say, hopefully a bit more sponsorship, and bigger crowds (again, hopefully), but I reckon we won't know much more for a while yet.

 
HoboAl
Re: Finances and the championship
HoboAl (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 18:41
The obvious way to go in future is expand Premier and Championship. Top club go up band bottom club come down, then 2nd at both ends of table have play offs. I would have same system for League 1. It would keep the season alive for some clubs and their fans.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Finances and the championship
Kimbo (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 08:30
Most would agree. Except those that hold the stick.

 
telly1
Re: Finances and the championship
telly1 (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 02:12
Clearly,it will be a financial challenge maybe too big to survive it.RFU are committed to finding a way to get out of relegation and playoffs in top tier and championship.funding is about 550k per club and after paying for all match officials and other matchday costs it leaves little for on field budget apart from physiocs ,team managers,kitmen,coaches,and uncle Tom Cobley and all,then the cupboard is bare on a balanced budget basis.even now with the current run revenues are static and the club ,by chairman's statement is losing a lot on a weekly basis.championship gates will not be higher than now as was proven when wecwere there for 12 years or so .main fact is,purely in financial terms, we would be better off being a big fish in this pond, not to dampen ambition,but simply realistically portraying the facts.

 
titchywinger
Re: Finances and the championship
titchywinger (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 01:03
Maybe a few full stops , commas, and capital letters would help when you post. The last 30 or so words of your post would seem to say that promotion to division 2 is pointless , and ambition is pointless.Why would you wish to deny the ambitions of a committed chairman and committed players who want to aspire to the top of the ladder?
Why would you think that fans would be happy without signs of ambition and progress?
Why be a big fish in a small pond?
I am a fan of Coventry RFC and I want to see them at the pinnacle of the rugby pyramid.
Maybe, Telly 1 , you might buy a £15 ticket, a programme , a beer or two and maybe a gourmet plate of food to put in the coffers now and then. Or maybe not Telly1

 
Cov_InPeace
Re: Finances and the championship
Cov_InPeace (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 22:28
Let's keep it gentlemanly chaps. Whether you go or not, write proper like wot I do or not, everyone is entitled to an opinion. winking smiley

Mine is; if you're not in a league to at least try to win it, then there's not much point in being in a league.

I have no idea how it'll go next season if we go up (with regard to finance or on the pitch), but from what I seen and heard since Rowland Winter's arrived, I'm happy to trust the Chairman and DoR. I hope we'll soon see. smiling smiley

Cheers,

Russ.

 
HoboAl
Re: Finances and the championship
HoboAl (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 11:34
Quote:
Cov_InPeace
Let's keep it gentlemanly chaps. Whether you go or not, write proper like wot I do or not, everyone is entitled to an opinion. winking smiley
Mine is; if you're not in a league to at least try to win it, then there's not much point in being in a league.

I have no idea how it'll go next season if we go up (with regard to finance or on the pitch), but from what I seen and heard since Rowland Winter's arrived, I'm happy to trust the Chairman and DoR. I hope we'll soon see. smiling smiley

Cheers,

Russ.


Well my opinion is if you are in any league the first job is to avoid relegation and do it as soon as possible. Once that is achieved you try and push on and develop from there.

 
Teddy60
Re: Finances and the championship
Teddy60 (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 12:04
This is Coventry’s 8th year of playing in N1. I’m sure the vast majority of fans are not only thoroughly enjoying this successful season but are full of anticipation of what may lie in the year ahead in the Championship (fingers crossed). Ealing, poss London Irish, Bedford etc will all be great contests to look forward to. I’m sure Jon Sharpe and the Board would not jeaprodise the long term stability of the club for a short term stint in the league above.

Rowland, the coaching staff and the players will undoubtably be setting themselves up to be competitive in the Championship. The Board will be looking to maximise the clubs finances so as to have a competitive squad but also to press the button on all the infrastructure improvements they have discussed for the next 5 years. I would say this is a very exciting time to be a Coventry supporter. Enjoy.

 
telly1
Re: Finances and the championship
telly1 (IP Logged)
06 March, 2018 22:09
I simply made comments about finances in the championship.why I get insulted in return really makes you look beastly to me.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Finances and the championship
Peter Redhead (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 13:56
Quote:
telly1
I simply made comments about finances in the championship.why I get insulted in return really makes you look beastly to me.
You also made comments last year regarding the solvency of the club that you failed to retract, do you work at Severn Trent?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Finances and the championship
Bono546 (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 20:06
Trust in the stewardship of John Sharp and the board.

The debate that people are trying to start will never bring out the facts to everyone's satisfaction and nor should it imho. When the accounts are published yes the facts will be seen although again accounts are a mystery to most but that is usually all you know about a company even when working for them. (Unless your the finance director).

Every one knows it is expensive to be in the championship just how expensive is unknown. BUT John Sharp has amassed a now small fortune by being astute and doing his research and will without doubt have a better idea than most.

Enjoy the moment and the Rugby being served up this year and give this thread a wide berth



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2018 20:09 by Bono546.

 
Diesel74
Re: Finances and the championship
Diesel74 (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 06:56
Quote:
Bono546

The debate that people are trying to start...and give this thread a wide berth

Well, thanks for that. I wonder what a forum should be for?
I've been a Cov fan since about 1980 and was merely curious as to how things would work next season if we make it, as we most surely will.
Is it wrong for a supporter to care about his club?
I personally don't want to be in a situation where Coventry go up and we have financial issues that have dogged the club for so long, leading to more problems and then possible relegation.
I think Jon Sharpe has done a great job, and his 'signing' of Rowland Winter has paid dividends.
I am enjoying the moment, thank you.
But I want to enjoy the coming seasons. I want to think that Cov can consolidate and then make a tilt at the top table. Are supporters not allowed to be concerned about financing when there are five fewer home games to take into account?
Mark

 
Rob C
Re: Finances and the championship
Rob C (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 07:15
Seemed like a perfectly reasonable point for discussion tbf, this is a forum after all.

Any genuine Cov supporter will have concerns as to how we will cope both on and off the pitch should we go up. It's been a long time coming and we all want to see us succeed in what will be a far more challenging environment.

I'm sure Jon Sharpe has planned ahead, but do we just sit back now and not question anything?

I wish people would just let Russ police the forum...he does it very well.

 
Cov_InPeace
Re: Finances and the championship
Cov_InPeace (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 08:01
Mornings all,

Stop it Rob, you're making me blush!

Anyway, the point is absolutely valid, there's nothing off limits on here except for personal insults and anything that might land me in court! smiling smiley

Everything else is fine by me. If people don't want to engage with a particular thread that's fine, but rather than close down a discussion I'd rather people challenged the opinions they disagree with. Politely, of course. winking smiley

Fwiw I had a browse of our accounts last night, and compared them to Richmond. In truth I couldn't glean much from it other than the levels of finance are orders of magnitude away from what seems to happen at the top level of the game. That really surprised me, but I guess that's a reflection of my lack of knowledge rather than anything else. I can see why Championship rugby is in an awkward place...

I still trust Jon Sharp mind, and I still want us to get promoted!

Cheers all,

Russ.

 
HoboAl
Re: Finances and the championship
HoboAl (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 08:41
Jon Sharpe and Rowland Winter are both capable of working to budgets. RW has already said we missed out on certain targets last year to clubs in our league who were prepared to pay more. The club are working hard at increasing revenue streams on match days and outside of match days that are needed.

There seems short and long term goals to develop the club and get it performing at a higher level, it seems to be based on sensible steady growth without throwing silly money at it. It's a big step up to the next level but I think Jon Sharpe is too shrewd to risk the financial progress we have made.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Finances and the championship
OldNick (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 11:43
A couple of 'facts' regarding Coventry's attendance figures have been stated here, and elsewhere.

The first is that our attendances in tier 3 are no lower than they were in tier 2.
The second is that on promotion our attendances in tier 2 would be no higher than they have been in tier 3.
The first is, quite simply, inaccurate and misleading.
The second of course is just crystal ball reading.

Looking at attendances from 2000 to date, which is where stats are easily available.

First of all - our history of attendance figures in tier 2.

From a peak in 2002-2003 until relegation at the end of 2009-2010, attendances were on a pretty steep decline averaging 182 per year.

You can slice and dice attendances in this period in various ways - getting different average figures that can be used to 'prove' pretty well any theory - here are a few.

Overall - 2000-2010 average 1785

Coundon Road - 2000-2004 average 2131
BPA era - 2004-2010 average 1554

KF era 2000-2006 average 1981
AG era 2006-2010 average 1327

In the end it doesn't matter which of these figures you use as a basis for comparison. All of them are higher than our average in tier 3, prior to this season. However, looking at the period in tier 2 as an whole, the 1785 average, or about 80 above where we are today looks realistic, when accompanied by a downward trend of -182 per year from 2003

This was against a tier average, which over the period effectively doubled from 1000 to 2000 (and has oscillated wildly around 2000 ever since).

Tier 3
The first effect of being relegated into tier 3 was a drop in attendance of about 400, or over two years previous average decline, and roughly speaking a plateau at 800-1000 for the survival years under PR and then JS. Since then there has been an uneven increase, averaging 71 per season.

The average during our time in tier 3 is 1196 including this season to date. However we look at it, this is still well below the average achieved during our time in tier 2. It is even below our worst (final) year in tier 2.

By comparison with tier 2, where Coventry's attendances were falling in opposition to a tier where average attendances were rising, average attendances in tier 3 have been flat at just over 500.

Secondly, where does that leave us for attendances following promotion to the Championship.

First of all, we're in a much better place than when we fell out into tier 3. Even before relegation, Coventry's decline had dropped us to only a little above half the average attendances in tier 2. This season has us at 1706, very close to last seasons Championship average, and only a couple of hundred below this season;s average - an average significantly raised by Bristol's participation - which will end shortly as they return to the Premiership.

A very simplistic argument would be that the 400 who vanished as we were relegated will reappear. I suspect this is nonsense - any of them who would reappear probably will have done so. I am sure there will be some who join Cov on promotion - but how many will it be?

Attendances have obviously grown with success - but this is not likely to continue at anything like the current level. However, any fair weather supporters who drift away as the going gets harder are not likely to vanish until at least Christmas. Their real impact if they leave is not likely until a second season, particularly if they have bought season tickets.

One noticeable factor is likely to be the number of away supporters. In a league with bigger attendances overall (and we will only be around average to start with) decent travelling away crowds gain in significance. A coach may only add an average of about 40 extra visitors, but it's still an help.

So, my guess is a moderate increase in the first season, and potentially a slight decline in the second. Comfortable security in tier 2 would probably change that to stability, and success to growth.

Beyond that everything is guess work.

Here are the figures. If you spot any mistakes please let me know, and I'll apply the changes.



Season Venue Chairman Home T2 Home T3 Tier 2 average Tier 3 average
2000-2001 CR KF 1728 949 340
2001-2002 CR KF 2065 1013 592
2002-2003 CR KF 2495 1097 661
2003-2004 CR KF 2237 1846 487
2004/2005 BPA KF 1688 1789 438
2005-2006 BPA KF 2126 2300 478
2006-2007 BPA KF 1530 1618 507
2007-2008 BPA AG 1366 2377 485
2008-2009 BPA AG 1397 1744 545
2009-2010 BPA AG + PR 1218 2227 537
2010-2011 BPA PR 834 2093 536
2011-2012 BPA PR + JS 1051 1845 582
2012-2013 BPA JS 857 2092 504
2013-2014 BPA JS 1201 1898 610
2014-2015 BPA JS 1506 2518 593
2015-2016 BPA JS 1152 1888 561
2016-2017 BPA JS 1263 1716 567
2017-2018 BPA JS 1706 1942 618

 
Sam Skennel
Re: Finances and the championship
Sam Skennel (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 15:53
You really do have a lot of spare time Nick.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Finances and the championship
OldNick (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 16:03
Quote:
Sam Skennel
You really do have a lot of spare time Nick.

No, I'm just dead quick with spreadsheets. And, I like people discussing from real figures not assumptions.

 
Sam Skennel
Re: Finances and the championship
Sam Skennel (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 18:42
I had assumed that's what it would be :-)

 
Cov_InPeace
Re: Finances and the championship
Cov_InPeace (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 20:30
Quote:
OldNick
Quote:
Sam Skennel
You really do have a lot of spare time Nick.

No, I'm just dead quick with spreadsheets. And, I like people discussing from real figures not assumptions.

Excellent, me too. If you could just plumb in the interquartile range, a few measures for statistical significance and a quick regression analysis we'll be laughing. smiling smiley

In fairness, it's always going to be a bit finger-in-the-air at the mo. I think the club are doing their bit, I just wish they got a bit more out of the local media for what is looking like a really significant achievement.

The old marketing saw is all about product, price, place and promotion as I recall. On at least three of those the club is spot on, imho. We just need a bit more from other parties to help them out with the fourth, perhaps?

Cheers,

Russ.

 
HoboAl
Re: Finances and the championship
HoboAl (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 22:52
Cov In Peace, I think they have had some good coverage recently on local radio, the Coventry Telegraph has been disappointing but I think that is a spent force anyway. The club has improved its output on social media, however I think the existing fans are the most important facility for promoting the club. If they can entice a few extra through the gate and raise people's curiosity and awareness it would be a big step forward.


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