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thechiefstribe.com
W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
thechiefstribe.com (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 15:34
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MESSAGES->author
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Moorsman (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 15:37
Thanks Exeforever thumbs down

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Lowerwatha (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 16:16
The Championship clubs are already in the British & Irish cup but agree that the zany way the competition is formatted needs looking at.
As for the final venue, why not award the final to the club that scores the most try's of the two finalists thereby encouraging running rugby.
The integrity of the competition should be enforced by introducing a workable system that ensures predominantly development teams.

 
southgate
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
southgate (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 16:18
By certain clubs I guess you mean Bath

 
OldWing
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
OldWing (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 17:33
Alternatively, we could have a proper cup competition - la FA Cup - and also have a proper A team competition. It does seem odd to me that English rugby doesn't have a major domestic knock out cup competition despite the acknowledged gulf between the premiership and everyone else.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Little Plums (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 19:04
Excellent ideas there, if only the powers that be gave half thought and/or politics didn't get in the way. Maybe we should put you in charge?

One point however, the difference between a cup and a trophy is more than the shape of the prize. A cup is played for in a knockout competition (eg Anglo Welsh, Calcutta, World, F.A.) whereas a trophy is played for in a league competition (eg Six Nations, Premiership etc).

We could always weld a couple of handles on the side of the existing receptacle, if that would help?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/03/2017 19:05 by Little Plums.

 
ChiefChopper
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
RedExe (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 19:25
I really don't get why people have an issue with club's playing a strong team in this competition. Why was it ok for us to do that when the final was held at Sandy Park, but not OK for others to do it now? There is nowhere in the rules that state the Anglo-Welsh cup is a development competition, or is the A-League cup. Throughout this campaign pretty much all of the squad (barring, Nowell, Steenson and a couple of others) have played in the competition. We've taken the view to use the competition this season and the last time it was played as a way to give experience to younger members of the squad as well as fringe/returning players. Others though, have different priorities and will use the cup accordingly.

With regards to the setup. As discussed in another thread, whilst it would be nice to get back to the days of a national competition. That isn't going to happen. And the current setup is there to fit around the international games. So you would need to have a group stage, and there isn't enough free weekends to have a full round robin group, hence the weird nature.

The final is an issue. Unless there is a home team playing there is going to be a problem with the attendance. There realistically is only going to be a week turnaround, so I would think the final would go to whoever had the best overall record. Not perfect, but I don't think there is another way.

Finally, incentive. Ultimately, the competition used to have a place in the European Cup for the winner (our winning year, was the year this stopped), bring that back and you'l see stronger teams being played.

 
LTigerFan
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
LTigerFan (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 21:15
Big mistake in the write up to say it is an A League cup competition. It isn't. It is a domestic first team cup competition. It just so happens that teams have two other competitions which many see as more important targets and therefore play a weaker starting line up. It's exasperated by the fact that the format of the A league means there are only 5 games all season so the AWC provides a rare opportunity for some of the fringe players.

 
Boldngrey
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Boldngrey (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 21:37
Surely if too few people want to travel to a final, the competition is not worth anything.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Little Plums (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 21:48
Not playing it on a Sunday would be a start but that interferes with the International window.

 
Peter Ord
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Tommy Hawkeye (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 22:02
Would all this nonsense be going on had we won. We should have won the game but blew it. So let's get back on the horse and play in another final on the other side of the road. The only thing is I would like to win one at HQ at some point. Whatever the outcome the buffet on Cardinal Vaughen will be up to our usual standards

 
Blue feather
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Blue feather (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 13:34
Quote:
Tommy Hawkeye
Would all this nonsense be going on had we won. We should have won the game but blew it. So let's get back on the horse and play in another final on the other side of the road. The only thing is I would like to win one at HQ at some point. Whatever the outcome the buffet on Cardinal Vaughen will be up to our usual standards
+1
Our selection was at the Developement end of the spectrum Tigers wasn't QED

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
fatheralice (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 14:10
Interesting article - some good points raised.

It was reported in the RP at the weekend, as part of the global season restructuring, that an expanded B&I cup may replace the AW, played over the 6N weekends, as no Prem matches will take place.

Assuming the other B&I teams are also able to field quality teams, this may be a good development - however if it means we have even more mismatches with decimated squads from Wales and Scotland in particular, then it will be worse than ever.
It is not the Pro12 sides fault that they lose 50% of their players to international call ups - it is simple mathematics of 2 or 4 representative sides into one international team.

I actually prefer the idea of helping the championships sides develop - however, as ever it is down to economics - would those matches be as marketable as a bigger name side?

I don't really subscribe to the idea that this is only a topic as a result of losing- many of the points raised a valid win or lose. 7000 at a final with a week to sell the tickets is indicative that things need to change. Top seeds to host would be much better on a number of levels, however that requires the stupid pool stages to be made less random I suppose!

And no, I do not believe it was not a first team from Tigers - and so what if it were.
Had we been more accurate, and perhaps game savvy in certain positions we would have won - errors gave Tigers field position and the opportunities to score, and an experienced Burns seized on them.

 
ExTeddChief
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
ExTeddChief (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 11:21
I like the idea of a revised B+I Cup in theory but I'm not sure how the structure would work. 12 Prem teams + 10 other British Isles sides = 22 teams competing over five weekends? Only way that works is if you throw in the top 10 Championship teams from the previous season(or set up a qualifying competition involving Championship teams and teams from the Scottish, Welsh and Irish leagues), make it a straight knockout competition with 32 teams. Prem teams and Pro12 top 4 get seeded in the first round, all future rounds unseeded.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2017 14:21 by ExTeddChief.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
PhilW2010 (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 20:43
Exeforever makes some valid points.

But I'm afraid I disagree with the comment about Referee's.

Referee's need to develop on the big stage just the same as the players, they need the experience.

Our own (Devon) young female Ref Sarah Cox is one example of how a very promising referee for the future, probably at both Premiership & International Level, could have been introduced to "the big stage" by having her Ref one of the semi-final's and/or The Final.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/03/2017 20:44 by PhilW2010.

 
SK 88
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
SK 88 (IP Logged)
31 March, 2017 21:15
Quote:
Blue feather
Quote:
Tommy Hawkeye
Would all this nonsense be going on had we won. We should have won the game but blew it. So let's get back on the horse and play in another final on the other side of the road. The only thing is I would like to win one at HQ at some point. Whatever the outcome the buffet on Cardinal Vaughen will be up to our usual standards
+1
Our selection was at the Developement end of the spectrum Tigers wasn't QED
For the starting XVs of the final:

Tigers average age= 25
Chiefs average age= 27

 
Squawker2
Re: W(h)ither the Anglo-Welsh Cup?
Squawker2 (IP Logged)
02 April, 2017 00:24
The suggestion of picking the 4 top Championship sides - presumably that would be either teams placed 2-5 of the year before (assuming No1 was promoted), or teams 2-4 and the team relegated from the Premiership.

This would however seem to stretch the financial differences between some premiership sides, in a similar but even worse way than teams that make it into the ECC make more money to support themselves.

Obviously this would provide an additional incentive for Championship teams to try and get to top 4/5 in the league, but would risk further making it impossible for the lower teams in the premiership to improve their lot.



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Stuart Barnes is a Cock Womble


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