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Chief RedWine
Re: The here and now.
Chief Redwine (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 07:51
Quote:
Chiefs
It is not only academies, hormones, girls or colleges, that lure youngsters away. But the fact that they are taken to their local club at the age of 5, yes 5, and by the time they are 12/13/14/15 they are sick of the sight of a rugby ball, and that is why we are losing so many young players.
They start too early, let them try lots of other things first, I did not start until I was 12 at school, I played until I was 38 in regional rugby, wore the green and white of my County and captained my club. I then coached for 13 years and chaired my club, because after playing football, cricket, swimming and badminton I realise at about 15 that rugby was for me, and it became my life.

They want to try other things, and who can blame them. Guys, this is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Agreed. I am trying to find the research that was published about 15 years ago and to which I was referring in my non-irritated post above. I only read the summary but it was pretty compelling about the ten year rule for young children and their dedication to sport. Not just in rugby. Working away at the moment so no access to decent wifi Google. If I find it I'll post a link.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The here and now.
PhilW2010 (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 23:58
Quote:
Chief Redwine
Phil
So, one person tells you it could be a problem and you then project that out into it being and I'll quote you here:


'a number of the local Clubs in the Area are, apparently, actually struggling to field a side in the older age groups of their clubs junior section, and this is, allegedly, Due to the clubs loosing players to The Chiefs Academy?'


You have exaggerated the impact from one person at one club to 'a number of the local clubs'. Which is frankly a major leap. In addition the words 'apparently' and 'allegedly' detract from that statement.

Just look at those outreach figures. A tiny minority of those players will want to move on to the academy. The vast majority of players will have been enthused by having contact with either players or coaches wearing the Chiefs strip. A massive positive to the local game.

There is, of course, no law against people discussing these things. Who said there is? Simply challenging your assertion is not stopping a discussion is it? Or is there a law against your allegations being challenged? smiling smiley

CRW.

You are playing on words again.
What I posted were not really allegations...they were observations.

The issue at Teignmouth was just one very recent example.
We have two lads playing junior club Rugby, U10's & U13's at Cullompton RFC. We obviously travel about quite a bit getting the boys to their respective games...and get to meet a lot of people at other clubs.
Over the last couple of seasons we have heard a number of different parents, from a number of different clubs, mention the same thing - We have heard it from people at Honiton, Sidmouth, Tavistock & Crediton. I also understand that there were very few players join the colts at Exeter Youth Rugby this seasons...but that may have been a "hang over" from the previous year when I think the U16's age group were forced to merge with Exmouth due to both clubs being short of players in that particular age group.

If the talk is true, and it is becoming an issue - how about The Chiefs Academy sponsoring the various Colts (and possibly U16's) age groups and/or players at their respective Local Clubs & putting Coaches out to help the club coaches?
This could then be run alongside, and a stepping stone up to, a chiefs Academy for the very best of the older best developed players.



Be sure to treat every day on this earth as if it were your last...one day you will be right. (Jethro)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The here and now.
PhilW2010 (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 00:15
Quote:
Chiefs
It is not only academies, hormones, girls or colleges, that lure youngsters away. But the fact that they are taken to their local club at the age of 5, yes 5, and by the time they are 12/13/14/15 they are sick of the sight of a rugby ball, and that is why we are losing so many young players.
They start too early, let them try lots of other things first, I did not start until I was 12 at school, I played until I was 38 in regional rugby, wore the green and white of my County and captained my club. I then coached for 13 years and chaired my club, because after playing football, cricket, swimming and badminton I realise at about 15 that rugby was for me, and it became my life.

They want to try other things, and who can blame them. Guys, this is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Not sure that I entirely agree with your facts about players starting so young? Maybe that is just how it is over here?
Take a look at the Southern hemisphere countries...you will find that a lot of their International and club players were born with a Rugby Ball in their Hand. (poor Mum)
And I am fairly sure they start Full contact over there at 6 or 7.
Our Youngest (10 this month) is now in his second season of contact, has hated playing at School now for the last year or so because it means going back to Tag.

As for trying other things when they are young - too right.
Both of ours manage to fit in Tennis, Table Tennis, Badminton...and horse riding & shooting.
Not sure about our youngest, he likes all of it and doesn't really have a favourite.
But our U13 is absolutely bonkers about Rugby & can't get enough of it. He is Hoping to make it to the Devon Trials this season.

Do you think that maybe sometimes youngsters quit due to too much pressure from their Parents, or possibly an older sibling? Having had 3 youngsters play junior Rugby over the last 10 years or so we have seen some pretty shocking examples of that sort of thing.



Be sure to treat every day on this earth as if it were your last...one day you will be right. (Jethro)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2017 00:18 by PhilW2010.

 
Chiefs
Re: The here and now.
Chiefs (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 08:15
Yes, I do think there is too much pressure from parents Phil, I have seen it so many times myself. Very few rugby players are made, most are born to play rugby, you either have it or you don’t.

I have just spent the weekend at a reunion (🍺🍺🍷&#127863winking smiley with a dozen gnarled old rugby players, 6 of which are, or have, coached minis/youth rugby, all played County, and one international, so a lot of experience. We were all in absolute agreement that we lose a lot of youngsters because they start rugby, a particularly physical and demanding sport, too early.

One of the chaps coached a young George Kruis in Surrey, and is still coaching minis/youth, and he is adamant that many lads walk away from rugby to get into other sports when really they should be just getting into rugby.

I have been to clubs in NZ, and have coached quite a few lads from NZ. It is very different over there, there very few other distractions, especially in the more rural areas which much of NZ is. Rugby is king in NZ and will always remain so, so I really don’t think we can make a comparison.

I certainly hope your lads continue in the sport that has, and still does, give me so much pleasure Phil.

 
Chief RedWine
Re: The here and now.
Chief Redwine (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 10:23
'CRW.

You are playing on words again.
What I posted were not really allegations...they were observations.'


Phil

You used the word 'allegedly' in your initial post. If you allege something you are making an allegation. This is not 'playing on words', it is using words correctly and with clarity.

I'll return to the rest of this discussion when I have assembled some facts. So far I have only seen hearsay.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2017 10:24 by Chief Redwine.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The here and now.
Lowerwatha (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 10:45
Interesting comments from Austin Healey in his European round up article in the telegraph this morning:


“It is an interesting exercise to compare Saracens’ squad to Exeter’s. Saracens have the star power but Exeter have the depth. In the back row alone they have – deep breath – Don Armand, Dave Ewers, Matt Kvesic, Julian Salvi, Sam Simmonds and Thomas Waldrom competing for spots. That is just ridiculous.
Last weekend, they absolutely demolished Bath and are eight points clear at the top. Leinster had the luxury of resting all their Irish internationals last week but even with their big guns nice and fresh I just can’t see how they will be able to stop Exeter in this form. My one worry for Exeter is that it is very hard to keep that energy going for the entire season. It is almost like you want to have a little bit of a blip at some point where a defeat can act as a reset for the group.”

We used to have a blip around about Christmas during our early years in the Premiership but have managed this period better of late. Our strength in depth in all positions, not just the back row, has certainly been a factor in this!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The here and now.
PhilW2010 (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 11:15
Quote:
Chief Redwine
'CRW.
You are playing on words again.
What I posted were not really allegations...they were observations.'


Phil

You used the word 'allegedly' in your initial post. If you allege something you are making an allegation. This is not 'playing on words', it is using words correctly and with clarity.

I'll return to the rest of this discussion when I have assembled some facts. So far I have only seen hearsay.

CRW.

Yes, I know what I wrote.
I used the word Allegedly to protect the person that told me....just in case someone kicked up a song and dance about what he told me. The allegations didn't come from me, I just repeated what he said...do you get it now?
I am beginning to wish I hadn't bothered saying anything. Why is it that some of the posters on here get so bleddy touchy when anyone dares to question the Board, The Club...or now the Academy?

Anyway - do you have an opinion on the idea of the Chiefs Academy sponsoring players at their local Club...or sponsoring the older age groups? Or would you be shot at dawn if you said anything that may go against what the club want?



Be sure to treat every day on this earth as if it were your last...one day you will be right. (Jethro)

 
Chief RedWine
Re: The here and now.
Chief Redwine (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 12:24
Quote:
PhilW2010
Quote:
Chief Redwine
'CRW.
You are playing on words again.
What I posted were not really allegations...they were observations.'


Phil

You used the word 'allegedly' in your initial post. If you allege something you are making an allegation. This is not 'playing on words', it is using words correctly and with clarity.

I'll return to the rest of this discussion when I have assembled some facts. So far I have only seen hearsay.

CRW.

Yes, I know what I wrote.
I used the word Allegedly to protect the person that told me....just in case someone kicked up a song and dance about what he told me. The allegations didn't come from me, I just repeated what he said...do you get it now?
I am beginning to wish I hadn't bothered saying anything. Why is it that some of the posters on here get so bleddy touchy when anyone dares to question the Board, The Club...or now the Academy?

Anyway - do you have an opinion on the idea of the Chiefs Academy sponsoring players at their local Club...or sponsoring the older age groups? Or would you be shot at dawn if you said anything that may go against what the club want?

Yes - I know I should let it go. But repeating an allegation is making an allegation. Not getting heavy, but anyone repeating a proven libel in print is also open to prosecution. Don't worry, Plod will not be knocking on your door.

As I wrote earlier, I will return properly to this discussion when I have some facts, not hearsay. I am keen to get to:

* know what numbers are taken into the Academy,
* have some of my own discussion with a number of coaches with whom I am still in contact and * look out the research paper I referred to earlier.

Two of these items will be factual; the other you'll just have to take my word on their what the coaches say.

This is not being touchy, it is having a difference of opinion. As long as we keep it civilised and grounded in fact I am happy to continue. Most of what you have written in the past went straight over my head; I have no experience of what you wrote. This one? Well yes, I do have first-hand experience. So, what I see as a negative point about a superb outreach by the Chiefs will be challenged.

And no, I won't be shot at dawn. Allegedly smiling smiley they just do it immediately. Saves time and the last meal.

On your last point - did you know that both Joe and Sam Simmonds continued playing for Teignmouth RFC whilst in the Academy? I assume this meets the criteria of sponsoring local players at their local clubs? (Although my son, in his last few 1st XV playing years while they were there, insists he taught them all they know . . .)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The here and now.
Tom A Hawk (IP Logged)
08 December, 2017 13:09
Pretty sure Sam Hill was still playing for Crediton too whilst in the Academy

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The here and now.
PhilW2010 (IP Logged)
09 December, 2017 14:01
Yes, well aware of the Simmons boys playing for Teignmouth whilst in the Academy!
And that Sam Hill was still playing for Crediton and in the Academy!

But I honestly don't think this was when those players were at junior level (U16/COLTS)!

As I clearly stated in my original post - it is the U16/colts age groups at local clubs that appear to be losing players.

Is it down to RFU laws?? Youngsters are restricted to the number of games/hours of Rugby they can play? Has this law recently become more strict with less game time/hours etc?
CRW- you know the people to ask.

Look forward to your balanced response!



Be sure to treat every day on this earth as if it were your last...one day you will be right. (Jethro)

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: The here and now.
PhilW2010 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 01:49
Have you finished compiling your facts & findings yet CRW ?

Or have you been too busy chasing bee's...or was it leaves?



Be sure to treat every day on this earth as if it were your last...one day you will be right. (Jethro)

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