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MESSAGES->author
Referees
25 February, 2018 08:50
So we're all good at blaming the ref for decisions, me included, but I have wondered for a long time what the sport can do about it. For so long it has allowed offsides, taking men out off the ball, not straight put ins at the scrum, crooked lineouts, closed gaps in the lineout, deliberately obstructing players chasing a kick, kneeling or holding players to prevent them rolling away, coming in from the side, diving over rucks off their feet,high tackles, no arm tackles,time wasting, to name just a few!!

These happen far too often, and in most instances many are happening at once by both teams, so how do the ref or other officials decide which to penalise. I don't know what the solution is but it's just a lottery these days. The law makers need a serious rethink.

Maybe the refs should just blow the whistle every 5mins and introduce a big Game Of Fortunes type wheel with all the offences on it to decide what they should do, at least it might be a bit fairer and will stop all the Ref Bashing, but I doubt it.

 
OldWing
Re: Referees
OldWing (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:13
I agree with you that, in any game, both sides will commit many offences that are not picked up by the officials. Let's face it, if every offence was penalised, the game would never get going. The best refs take a pretty pragmatic approach and only penalise the most blatant offenders. It's the rather random effect of all this that concerns me. Now that most teams have someone who can pop penalties over from the halfway line or even in their own half, the award of a penalty - even for minor technical infringements - can, obviously, have a major effect on a game. I wonder if one possible approach would be to say that only penalties given in, say, the 22 can be kicked for goal, otherwise the team has to kick for touch. At least that would stop some teams who seem to win games simply by forcing penalties anywhere on the pitch and taking the points. I'd be interested to see how many matches are decided by penalties rather than tries.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Referees
Geronimo Jim (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:26
When I trained as a referee many moons ago we were told that if we see an offence and it has no impact let it go, this is often the case with offside offences.
Many of the other things can be sorted out but would cause so much disruption to the game that there would be a huge backlash from spectators.
Also I'd put money on it that our coaching team would be hacked off if a pedantic referee reduced the intensity of the game by insisting on the metre gap at line outs, minor scrum offences etc. Our game requires continuity and ball in play, not a ref saying too both sides please step back 10 cms the gap is too small.

 
Chiefsexile
Re: Referees
Chiefsexile (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:42
Refs are human beings, they are fallible (even if Wayne Barnes thinks he isn't).

For me, the solution is to simplify the rules to make it simpler to referee so that the officials are less able to influence the outcome.

1. Players are given more responsibility to uphold standards. For example, sin bins or sending offs are not given to the offending player but, players are removed starting at Number 8 and then moving down the pack with no substitutes allowed. If a team is unable to field a pack with more than 5 players then the game is restarted with an uncontested scrum and backs have to make up the numbers in the scrum. Mr Captain, if you only have 6 players to go against 8 in the scrums then get your discipline sorted out.
2. Scrums can be fed at any angle you like but, the defending 9 is allowed to go 'offside' to contest the ball at the back of the scrum.
3. Line outs down to 3 per side mandatory with no lifting allowed at all.
4. Offside line at mauls is the head of the attacking maul and any defending player not directly in front of the maul is treated as if they have made a side entry or are attempting to collapse it.

 
Peter Ord
Re: Referees
OAP (Over a pint) (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 11:57
I started playing club rugby 52 years ago. I was taught how to cheat in an acceptable manner. The laws have changed since then as has the officiating but I can guarantee you that every young player is taught to cheat in an acceptable manner. It was ever thus and forever will be as will placing the blame on the man with the encapsulated pea.

 
mommentum
Re: Referees
mommentum (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 18:46
I don't think that in the six nations a Celtic league ref should be reffing a game with one Celtic league side. Not because of bias, but because he would have ref the Scottish side many times giving them a much bigger knowledge of what you can and can't get away with. You would not get a Welsh ref in a game between an English and Scottish side in the European cup

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Referees
clalan (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 22:38
Its not the referee in the middle that is the problem, but many times the assistant refs do not assist. Its a fast game and the referee tries to keep up with play, also has to be aware of not getting in the wrong position so needs help.
Saturdays game was the opposite the assistants called a lot of things, which the ref had missed, if they had not done so the ref would have had a moan from many, including me.
The offside i agree is not being policed much in todays game, but its the blatant cheating that needs to be picked up.
Our team has suffered from time wasting by others teams as a tactic, whether its shoelaces as with Saints, or going down every chance they got like Glasgow, yesterday he eventually started stopping the clock, but if your game plan is to keep the ball in play an run teams ragged, the yellow should be used more.

 
Chiefsexile
Re: Referees
Chiefsexile (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 19:11
Quote:
clalan
Its not the referee in the middle that is the problem, but many times the assistant refs do not assist. Its a fast game and the referee tries to keep up with play, also has to be aware of not getting in the wrong position so needs help.
Saturdays game was the opposite the assistants called a lot of things, which the ref had missed, if they had not done so the ref would have had a moan from many, including me.
The offside i agree is not being policed much in todays game, but its the blatant cheating that needs to be picked up.
Our team has suffered from time wasting by others teams as a tactic, whether its shoelaces as with Saints, or going down every chance they got like Glasgow, yesterday he eventually started stopping the clock, but if your game plan is to keep the ball in play an run teams ragged, the yellow should be used more.

Mostly agree. Furthermore, isn't this something that many of the Southern Hemisphere coaches have said is retarding our game in general?

Solution, how about the coaches get to call two one minute time outs per half and any player going down for anything other than a head injury does not stop play. If it is a tight five player that goes down then the scrum goes ahead with a tap start for the attacking side. I suspect that these injuries that force players onto one knee might stop then!

 
ukms
Re: Referees
ukms (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:20
Quote:
Chiefsexile
Quote:
clalan
Its not the referee in the middle that is the problem, but many times the assistant refs do not assist. Its a fast game and the referee tries to keep up with play, also has to be aware of not getting in the wrong position so needs help.
Saturdays game was the opposite the assistants called a lot of things, which the ref had missed, if they had not done so the ref would have had a moan from many, including me.
The offside i agree is not being policed much in todays game, but its the blatant cheating that needs to be picked up.
Our team has suffered from time wasting by others teams as a tactic, whether its shoelaces as with Saints, or going down every chance they got like Glasgow, yesterday he eventually started stopping the clock, but if your game plan is to keep the ball in play an run teams ragged, the yellow should be used more.

Mostly agree. Furthermore, isn't this something that many of the Southern Hemisphere coaches have said is retarding our game in general?

Solution, how about the coaches get to call two one minute time outs per half and any player going down for anything other than a head injury does not stop play. If it is a tight five player that goes down then the scrum goes ahead with a tap start for the attacking side. I suspect that these injuries that force players onto one knee might stop then!

Interesting reading some of these posts written as though Chiefs are the eternal victim of other teams misdemeanours....... watch some your games through 2 eyes and youíll see as many off side infringements (probably more because of the pace you play) and time wasting as any other team ... they all do it in one way or another to suit various situations. As for not genuinely going down on one knee, I would invite you to play a physical AP game and see how often you go down smiling smiley

 
OldWing
Re: Referees
OldWing (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:26
I see that Ryan Wilson has now been cited for contact with the eye area of an opponent. Pity it wasn't picked up at the time by NO.

 
ukms
Re: Referees
ukms (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 13:22
Quote:
OldWing
I see that Ryan Wilson has now been cited for contact with the eye area of an opponent. Pity it wasn't picked up at the time by NO.

Could have been a very different result ..... that said I donít think itís done England any harm to lose ..... kick up the air$e they need.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Referees
Mabolza (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 13:52
Quote:
OldWing
I see that Ryan Wilson has now been cited for contact with the eye area of an opponent. Pity it wasn't picked up at the time by NO.

I'm surprised that Hughes wasn't also cited. ( for choking )

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Referees
Lowerwatha (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 17:59
Quote:
Mabolza
Quote:
OldWing
I see that Ryan Wilson has now been cited for contact with the eye area of an opponent. Pity it wasn't picked up at the time by NO.

I'm surprised that Hughes wasn't also cited. ( for choking )

If Hughes had made more of it when both were asked by NO what they were up to it might have been reviewed by the TMO with serious repercussions for Ryan Wilson. Hughes though it a decent bloke, remember last season when he stopped playing to tend to an injured opposition player.

 
Seany_Boy0511
Re: Referees
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 18:07
The problem with Citings: yes they are required but it is too late when it's had an impact in the game where the offence has taken place and missed by 4 officials ( if it's that obvious) obviously if it's a 50 50 decision or been brought up after the game and people are completely unaware of the situation, then that's a different story

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Referees
fatheralice (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 19:46
Interesting video released by world rugby re a number of largely unmissed offences in this year's 6n.

Shows what a tough job any ref has....

[www.advantagereferee.com]

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Referees
fatheralice (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 19:47
link to video



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2018 19:52 by fatheralice.


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