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Success for local team with no Welsh players
40:20 (IP Logged)
04 May, 2018 18:50
Cardiff City are on the verge of the top flight, all season only one Welshman has played for them and he for only 6 games.

I don't see the fans at CCS clamoring for Welsh players....

Just a thought

 
Rogero
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Rogero (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 18:42
Sports fans want to watch winning teams.

That is the b all and end all...

 
cast-Iron13
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
cast-Iron13 (IP Logged)
07 May, 2018 22:18
Quote:
40:20
Cardiff City are on the verge of the top flight, all season only one Welshman has played for them and he for only 6 games.
I don't see the fans at CCS clamoring for Welsh players....

Just a thought


I think the Americans call this comparing apples and pears.


2 completely different things/sports.


Are you telling me that you would prefer foreign investment,foreign coaches,and foreign players as long as they were instantly successful?


I seem to remember the Cardiff club being bankrupt some years ago.


sic transit gloria mundi

 
Rogero
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Rogero (IP Logged)
08 May, 2018 07:46
I think the point is, with no local boys in the team, Cardiff City played in front of 32,000 people and got promoted to the top flight.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

 
casual observer
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
casual observer (IP Logged)
08 May, 2018 08:03
It's not a question of apples and pears - 40:20 quite simply has stated that if you want success on the field the fans will turn up to watch. It doesn't matter what sport you are talking about.

Celtic Crusaders had crowds averaging over 3,000 in the top flight which is ten times what WWR are likely to get at the moment.

Like it or lump it people will not turn up week after week to watch a losing team apart from the die hards.

This is not a criticism but a statement of fact.

 
cast-Iron13
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
cast-Iron13 (IP Logged)
08 May, 2018 15:28
Quote:
casual observer
It's not a question of apples and pears - 40:20 quite simply has stated that if you want success on the field the fans will turn up to watch. It doesn't matter what sport you are talking about.
Celtic Crusaders had crowds averaging over 3,000 in the top flight which is ten times what WWR are likely to get at the moment.

Like it or lump it people will not turn up week after week to watch a losing team apart from the die hards.

This is not a criticism but a statement of fact.

Right.Got you now.Should Liverpoool FC win the European game there won't be too many Liverpool folk involved - but lots of travelling supporters from around the globe.
Should Manchester United FC win the FA Cup - no folks from Manchester will be involved but a few supporters from around the globe.

I remember the 'Bridgend ' Crusaders.Good to watch.One individual put the money in.Then he didn't.Not much legacy,despite the crowds.

We should all make a list.It will be quite lengthy.

Sunderland AFC won the FA Cup 45 years ago last weekend.They have just sacked their Welsh born manager.They had an American billionaire owner.They had bigger crowds than Chelsea and Man City and Liverpool at certain stages in recent years.Now they have been relegated,twice in succession and until last week had a huge debt.As do most soccer clubs.

 
Rogero
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Rogero (IP Logged)
08 May, 2018 17:43
That is professional sport in a nutshell.

The days of Celtic's Lisbon Lions have long gone.

Success breeds success and building from the bottom could take too long without some outside help.

Although it would be great to have a 17 man squad in Super League all born in CF / SA / NP postcodes....

 
jd1664.
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
jd1664. (IP Logged)
08 May, 2018 17:57
I am not sure what you are trying to say.

Sport, be it Man City and Man Utd, Wigan and St Helens or Exeter and Saracens, etc, requires cash to operate at the professional level and requires the best players available regardless of where they hail from.

We can all admire a community club that is well managed financially with "local village players" but that is not the model to take you up and make progress, witness Toronto, Toulouse, etc. If WWR wanted to be that "local club" then maybe they should have stayed within the Welsh domestic system but if they wanted to make progress then they always had to "speculate to accumulate". the degree to which they were prepared for that seems to be what is at issue in these discussions.

 
jd1664.
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
jd1664. (IP Logged)
08 May, 2018 17:58
You must have written that as I made a similar point .....



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2018 20:10 by jd1664..

 
Rogero
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Rogero (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 07:55
Agree 100% jd.

The WWR are in League 1 of the RFL Championship, effectively two promotions away from the top flight of the sport in the UK. If WWR continue to take really heavy beatings the sport both locally and dare I say it nationally will be damaged. I for one don't want to be looking at the score each week to see if records have been broken for all the wrong reasons.

It is great having Cast Iron on here and top marks for his enthusiasm and optimism plus he does source some good background stuff too, but 638 points conceded and only 32 scored is really worrying in seven matches. Over the years we have had the odd thrashing but the average score is 91 v 4.

As a long standing (aged 57) RL follower I am genuinely concerned, hence I agree that "outside help" is needed on the pitch.

I do not want the club to become a laughing stock or one which the opposition feel sorry for us, that isn't sport at all.

 
casual observer
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
casual observer (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 08:44
good points made all round however the dream of a welsh team competing at league 1 level is in my opinion a long long way off, the game has been established in northern cities and towns for 100 years; its played in schools and lads do not need to convert from the 15 a side version...

 
cast-Iron13
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
cast-Iron13 (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 16:39
Good stuff all.Keep it coming.

It's great,and refreshing,that even though some do not attend rugby league games,the enthusiasm and desire for the side to succeed is still very strong.


If we take Salford,who have signed Welsh players over the decades,and we take their 3 previous owners,Snape,Wilkinson and Dr Koukash,although changing monetary times are also to be considered,as well as the times changing inside and outside the sport,they have met with different results.

Snape - 1963 - 1978,signed Dave Watkins,amongst others,won a little silverware,increased
attendances,courtesy,mainly,of The Willows entertainment centre attached to the stadium.

This film shows some of the story Black And White Film - Salford Feature


When the brewery started losing money at The Willows,the big spending on players ended,the crowds dwindled.

John Wilkinson was owner - 1982 -2012.He took over when the club was in financial trouble.He held a steady ship,mainly in the top flight,but the crowds never reached their earlier heights.

Because of Super League wanting Licensing introduced,coupled with the banking crisis,he left the club seriously in debt and with a new stadium requiring huge repayments.

Dr Koukash took over Jan.2013.He was unable to purchase the stadium.Signed big names who failed to gel.The attendances failed to improve.


With West Wales Raiders it seems the new owner had to rescue the failed South Wales Ironmen.They have their own stadium which is a massive boost.They are starting from Ground Zero.They have observed how other clubs operate.They are aware of the need for more Welsh players for the national side;bearing in mind the results and performances at the last world cup.

Dr Koukash repeatedly stated that to have a big club,and to persuade big name players to be enticed to the club,it required a large fanbase.

What comes first,the chicken or the egg?

Show me an example of a side starting in League 1 to who we should look to follow.

Forget Toronto as they have 12 multi-millionaires involved.If a Russian oligarch fancied it,how would you advise him to go on? Just sign a squad of Australian NRL players on 2 years contracts every 2 years and hope they gel in 2 weeks?


How about building slowly.Building fanbase.Increasing player pool and having lots of young supporters singing,''.....He's one of our own.''

Also,please be grateful,cos I sure am,that someone,or more,are putting money in to give me lots of enjoyment,and the players are still prepared to pull on a shirt and boots and give their all,and be appreciated in west Yorkshire,if not yet in west Wales,for their efforts.

** Huge respect to Phil Carleton for his selfless and gracious words following a hugely emotional and difficult couple of weeks for West Wales raiders and the coaching staff **

 
Penybont Crusader
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Penybont Crusader (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 18:57
London Skolars.

 
jd1664.
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
jd1664. (IP Logged)
09 May, 2018 19:15
If we were all sat in the George Hotel back in the 1890's I would probably agree more with your idea's about organic growth but we are where we are, one hundred years plus behind the "heartland" and with no realistic role model for success in recent times beyond the heavily funded route.

WWR could own the bars in the Mil Stand but if only 200 people turn up because the playing performances are so abject then it matters little who owns the bar take. It's rather like the band on the Titanic squabbling over who gets the tips!

It's been stated elsewhere that any one-off stand out players will move up north quicker than you can say "feeder club" so unless you can develop 17 or so simultaneously and then afford the higher wages and promotion bonuses to persuade them to stay, which seems counter to your argument, then how is player development going to succeed without a few mercenaries?

You make some telling points about the roller coaster ride the Salford fans have had but when I last looked they were in SL so you might argue the route worked with a little pain on the way?

I don't know what the answer is; I suspect there is no answer and the 100+ years since the schism are a bridge too far. What I do know is that there is no fan future for a team that has failed to register double digits yet and whose last few games have been nils. Hey maybe just to lighten the mood and bearing in mind what's on this week, the club should re-brand as "Norway RLFC".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2018 19:18 by jd1664..

 
cast-Iron13
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
cast-Iron13 (IP Logged)
17 May, 2018 19:12
Even in the heartlands,at the club which spent a lot of money on union players,Offiah,

Davies,Tait et al.it seems they are going the organic growth route

Academy To Super League

 
Rogero
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Rogero (IP Logged)
18 May, 2018 06:59
Very very admirable, but in West and South Wales unlike the M62 corridor we have rugby union which takes the cream of the crop. That is 100 years of development we cannot change overnight.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing 17 man squad competing at a reasonable level all born in SA, CF or NP postcodes.

Good plan on a seperate note to change kick off to 2.30 on Saturday. I am in east Cardiff and it's a 120 mile round trip and I'd like to get back for most of the FA cup final.

 
jd1664.
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
jd1664. (IP Logged)
18 May, 2018 07:45
Could you really shout for an SA postcode????

 
Rogero
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Rogero (IP Logged)
18 May, 2018 21:25
If the WWR are doing well and there are players playing well from any Welsh postcode I'll be delighted...

 
Rogero
Re: Success for local team with no Welsh players
Rogero (IP Logged)
18 May, 2018 21:29
Just seen that the kick off for the Oldham game is back to 3pm.

I may struggle....


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