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A falcons fan with a few ideas
LoverNotAFighter (IP Logged)
25 May, 2012 09:04
I'm a Falcons supporter but am disgusted with the way things have turned out for you and fully think that you should be promoted and us relegated if you finish off the Pirates next week. We'd definitely go straight back up and it never harmed Saints and Quinns when they went down.

Just a few thoughts I've had on your possible causes of action. As there is a European element to any claim (because in the Prem there is a chance of playing European rugby and the ECJ adopt a broad definition of it so as to include as many cases as possible), then some of the issues could potentially be challenged in the CJEU (previously called the ECJ).

The free movement legislation of the EU means that any MEASURE THAT HAVE THE EQUIVALENT EFFECT of restricting free movement are prohibited unless they can be justified (which these couldn't because Bristol were allowed up when their second ground wasn't satisfactory)

In competition law (which can be applied either domestically or on a European level) it is a breach if a group of competing undertakings get together to restrict competition. The clubs that make up Premiership rugby may or may not be undertakings. They are in it to make money but its not the primary purpose. It could definitely be argued though.

If they were undertakings, then getting together agree to negate competition within the market, that market being premiership rugby, would be prohibited.

IF it was found that the agreement was one of the following; price fixing (unlikely) market sharing (maybe) supply restriction (maybe) then any of the people involved with the decision could go to jail for up to 5 years. It would be very unlikely and a very novel way to use the legislation.

Restraint of trade has already been looked at and is probably the strongest argument so I'll not go over it again.

Interestingly both Newcastle and Welsh may have an argument by virtue of the doctrine of estoppel which prevents people being shitty to others really. If the RFU etc have said things that have caused Welsh to act to their detriment based on those statements, they can be prevented in law from going back on what they have said and stopping promotion. BUT...a history of action can suffice, letting other teams play in the Prem who don't meet the criteria AND by letting relegated Prem clubs go back up who don't meet the criteria, they have created a course of actions that could lead Welsh to reasonably think they could go up too.

They theoretically could be forced to enlarge the Prem and have 13 teams because Newcastle could argue for estoppel too.

I couldn't see a court in the land letting them impose criteria on you that they don't impose on those already in the Premiership.

Also, I am sick of people saying that they wouldn't mind if it was Bristol going up. There is no point going balls out to win the league if that doesn't win you promotion. Welsh and Pirates etc OBVIOUSLY rotated their squad, rested players etc to ensure they didn't peak to early so that they could do it when it count having got into the play-offs. AND it is not for us to mind or not who goes up...we deserve to go down END OF STORY. Relegation is important to ensure the bottom of the table isn't a pointless endeavor.

I am ashamed of English rugby and hope it gets sorted soon.

FINALLY....if the RFU had not completely neglected the Championship and had sorted it sponsor and had helped the clubs therein to develop and it become a truly professional league rather than only half the teams being full time and fully professional, then there would be less of a fuss caused when Premiership teams were relegated.

I fully expect to be abused for my views from fellow falcons supporters who instead of thinking about the effect that such an unfair decision has on English rugby as a whole, concentrate only on whether we will be in the Premiership or not for one year.

This unfairness is about more that just Welsh and Falcons, its about what the league should stand for and I would only want to be in the Premiership because the rules of fair play and sportsmanship dictate that we should be there and not because of petty bureaucratic form filling.

Re: A falcons fan with a few ideas
johntywyn (IP Logged)
25 May, 2012 09:28
I cannot see how primacy of tenure should be an issue. Saracens play at Wembley when they want, and Harlequins at Twickenham. I also believe that a season or so ago there was a plan to take a Premier League game to South Africa.

Surely London Welsh on that basis could play anywhere they wanted. I ask the question as to where the decision makers on this issue watch their rugby; could it perhaps be the North East ?

Re: A falcons fan with a few ideas
Big Dave (IP Logged)
25 May, 2012 12:22
"Also, I am sick of people saying that they wouldn't mind if it was Bristol going up. There is no point going balls out to win the league if that doesn't win you promotion. Welsh and Pirates etc OBVIOUSLY rotated their squad, rested players etc to ensure they didn't peak to early so that they could do it when it count having got into the play-offs."

Can I suggest that unless you have evidence that Welsh and Pirates rotated their squads and rested players to a greater extent than Bristol did, that your point is complete and utter rubbish? Do you have figures for the number of players used by all the clubs, and how this alleged rotation took place?

I have been watching championship rugby all season and I have seen no evidence that Bristol rotated any less or any more than any other club. I am, however, happy to be proved wrong.

And even if rotation and peaking and all the other stuff you refer to had happened, it still came down to a mad 10 minutes at Penzance where the Bristol players (several of whom had been brought in late in the season, no doubt with an eye on the play off not the league) lost their minds for a brief period of time.

So, if you are happy that promotion to the premiership can be decided upon 10 minutes of madness rather than judging which is the best team over the course of a season, thatís fine, youíre entitled to your opinion.

But unless you can demonstrate that the team who finished top only did so because they over concentrated on the league Ė with evidence that that is the case - then I suggest that you withdraw the point you are making about teams preparing for the play off.

Re: A falcons fan with a few ideas
Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
26 May, 2012 09:36
Actually, BD I'd say it was closer to 20 minutes of supidity from Bris, but I agree with the main point.

In fact I'd also like to take issue with the statement that Bristol "were allowed up when their second ground wasn't satisfactory". When was this? Our standby ground has always been Ashton Gate which has hosted RWC and Premiership games and passed the MSC audit.

And on a personal note: "We'd definitely go straight back up". Bring it on.

Re: A falcons fan with a few ideas
Bobba (IP Logged)
26 May, 2012 11:04
"We'd definitely go straight back up"? Try telling that to Bristol and now to Leeds fans.

I hope that London Welsh, if they win the play offs on Wednesday to take the RFU to task, and that they are not simply posturing. The question of relegation / promotion, tenure, gap between urinals.... needs to be finaly sorted once and for all.

Come on the Exiles, and that's from a Leeds supporter!

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