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Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: FalconsRugby.org.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 14:37

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Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DeceptivePace (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 16:06

Anyone see Jonny in the west bar? We stayed until MoM presentation when as designated driver, I couldn't stand the Guinness deprivation any longer. Carl was certainly in evidence, chatting, posing for photos and necking isotonic IPA. Real shame IMO if Jonny didn't show; Falcons were a big part of his life and he would have been assured a warm and respectful welcome.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 16:19

He certainly wasn't held up in the press conference, because he refused to speak to any media whatsoever.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Falconfan (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 16:41

Strange!! You'd have thought that he would want to say hello to the fans who didn't get to acknowledge him on the playing field. But we do know that he never goes seeking an accolade. So that probably explains it.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 16:47

A quick 30-second soundbite to the press would surely not have been asking too much.

Something along the lines of: "Great to be back in Newcastle where I have so many good friends, shame about the result but hope for better next week at home"

But alas, it was just too much for him to give.

Luckily the current Falcons players always have time for the media and apreciate the value of communicating with supporters via the papers, TV and radio.

Never had any problem at all with the current squad, who are all brilliant with the press.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Getitright (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 16:55

Jonny's attitude tells it's own story!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 17:01

GIR,

Agreed.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Toonfalcon (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 17:14

Grant Shiels looked absolutely done in when he was eventually substituted; no surprising because he coped with Carl well and his overall display was magnificent and the same can be said for the rest of the team. Perhaps we have turned the corner after the Gloucester game let's just hope so.

I'm surprised as anyone that Jonny did not make an appearance, whether to fans or media. This is simply not like him. Those of us who knew him well from his falcons days remember him as an extremely friendly, approachable person; a great communicator very modest and down to earth despite all his fame, ability and achievement.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 17:36

TF,

In fairness, from the media side this was not particularly unusual. I have to say.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: davidmc (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 17:40

Well he appeared somewhere - there's a couple of photos of him talking to a few fans here here. Can't work out where it was, but I waited with my daughter for ages afterwards by the changing rooms but didn't see Jonny. Quite a few other Toulon players were wandering about though.

Agree with all comments re the Falcons players - every one we have met so far has been fantastic, even after the A game at Darlington on Monday when it was freezing they were happy to spend time talking & signing autographs.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Compton (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 18:26

You shouldn't be at all surprised Mark Smith with Jonny's reluctance to speak to the media etc. after the comments you wrote in your previous article about him caring more about gaining caps for England than playing for the Falcons inbetween injuries. There was absolutely no need for that kind of comment towards someone of Jonny's integrity. Perhaps you didn't like something that he wrote in his book?.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:18

"after the comments you wrote in your previous article about him caring more about gaining caps for England than playing for the Falcons"

Where did I say that?

I've said no such thing.

I said that some cynics claimed he was more focused on caps than club duty (which was an expressed opinion by many at the time) but that such a notion was hard to stomach. I then went on to praise his immense contribution and said he would rightly receive a hero's welcome as a club legend.

I never criticised him at all, I gave a balanced view expressing both ends of the spectrum on his final five seasons at the club which saw 25 league starts and 25 international caps.

"There was absolutely no need for that kind of comment towards someone of Jonny's integrity."

Again, I never questioned his integrity. I laid out some facts.

"Perhaps you didn't like something that he wrote in his book?"

I haven't read his book. Haven't read any of them in fact. I worked closely with him for 5 years and always got on really well with him. Never been a problem at all between us.

Carl Hayman, in contrast, was good as gold with the press and gave up his time to chat even though I know first hand that he truly hates doing interviews. He just got on and did it like a true pro.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Getitright (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:25

Smithy don't be so defensive.

Compton needs to understand the last few years of Jonny's tenure at KP. The word integrity was used and I totally agree that integrity is a pre-requisite, however it was sadly lacking on a number of occasions and that is not a comment aimed at Smithy.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: alas (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:38

Jonny didn't get on the field. Why should he feel obliged to give an interview to the press?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:46

alas,

His return to Newcastle was clearly the story for some people. It added significantly to the crowd, for starters.

Yes, I agree the guys who played should get the bulk of the attention.

But a courteous quick line to the Falcons fans via the press about how much he enjoyed being back in the area, a few thoughts on the game and a smattering of preview stuff for next weekend would have taken 2mins and generated massive goodwill.

Don't get me wrong, it's not the end of the world and I'm not too fussed.

But given how readily the other 45 players involved in the game were happy to grant similar requests, it just stood out as a sour note and further perpetuated the myth that he will only do media through his lucrative national newspaper column rather than deign the local rag with a harmless quote.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Falconfan (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:47

This is really sad. I can't believe that Jonny holds any grudges towards the Falcons' fans. It was not his fault that he did not get to play at all last night. He would have had the warmest of all welcomes had he come on the pitch. And he always said how much he had loved living in the North East and being with the Falcons. I just can't believe that he intended any snub towards the Falcons and their fans. I hope nobody is suggesting that there is such a problem. We need to respect that he is a very private person. Carl, on the other hand, obviously thoroughly enjoyed his night back at KP - and enjoyed the beer in the West Stand bar as well!!! Maybe he did not enjoy so much his tussle with Grant Shiels, tho' he would be proud how one of his proteges has developed.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:51

It was also the first opportunity for hacks from the nationals to have a go at him after the RWC.

You might not be interested by that Smithy, but they wouldn't have let him out alive. Don't blame him for passing up the press, especially as he didn't feature. Shame about not hanging around for the fans though.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:52

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he holds any grudges to fans or even media. That was not my argument at all.

Had he come on he would have got a hero's welcome, and rightly so.

Jonny is a good lad and I always got on well with him.

It was just a shame that even a bland 30sec soundbite about his return for the local press was beyond the realms of possibility.

I would definitely never criticise his attitude to the fans. In all my years no player has given more time for supporters to sign autographs and do photos etc. Every single away game he did it for hour after hour. Unbelievable effort, and he spent days on end replying to fan mail. Immense at that side of things.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 19:54

Kwa

"You might not be interested by that Smithy, but they wouldn't have let him out alive"

They wouldn't have been in the room. It would have been 1-on-1, quick line about being back in the NE and general fluff around the rematch etc. Nothing remotely controversial.

I agree on him not wanting to walk into a World Cup hornet's nest with the nationals, but that was not what was on the cards.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Falconfan (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 20:31

But would he have known, Smithy, that the hornet's nest was not in the room? You knew it - did he?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: wheelie (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 20:31

Jonny said in his book he would not be able to play against The Falcons, the reason he turned down offers from other premiership clubs and in the french press it was claimed in did not want to play in the game last night. He went through a difficult time during the last few years he was at Newcastle, injuries and battling depression, who knows how he felt coming back. His commitment to fans is clear, he spent 8 hours signing autographs at Twickenham not so long ago and after every game he spends time with fans. So he didn't talk to the press, the very people who have been pulling him to pieces in recent times. By not doing so at least he gave you all something to moan about!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2011 20:33 by wheelie.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 20:37

FF, Yes.

Wheelie,

"Jonny said in his book he would not be able to play against The Falcons"

Why go on the bench then? A waste of a place. If their 10 had gone down are you seriously saying he would have refused to come on? What rot.

"So he didn't talk to the press, the very people who have been pulling him to pieces in recent times."

I've not pulled him to pieces. I spent 5 years doing the opposite as Falcons' press officer!

"By not doing so at least he gave you all something to moan about!"

Aye, that is true. Very fair point you make there.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: zackary71 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 20:39

Great report and I claim plagiarism rights on the first 9 words !!! (in joke) and will forgive the sly dig buried in the middle !!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 20:41

Zack,

Have to admit you have lost me there... that is if your post was aimed at me? If not then just ignore this!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: wheelie (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 20:49

He was on the bench at the request of the manager who doesn't want Giteau at 10 because he can't speak French yet and feels there is a language barrier between him and the team. He would have come off the bench if required as he is a professional and I guess put his personal feelings to one side.

I can't say why he didn't speak to you Smithy, but I'm sure he had his reasons.

He clearly has a strong connection to the area, he owns a house and business there and his family still live there.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 20:55

"He was on the bench at the request of the manager who doesn't want Giteau at 10 because he can't speak French yet and feels there is a language barrier between him and the team"

Any evidence for that?

The interview I read with Laporte this week suggested the exact opposite - basically that Laporte wanted to leave him at home but JW wanted to make the trip.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: wheelie (IP Logged)
Date: 09 December, 2011 21:16

Only like you interviews and comments I have read, maybe things have been lost in translation!

He came, he didn't play, he didn't speak, yet we are talking about him, what a man!!!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: zackary71 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 09:40

Quote:
Mark Smith NCJ Media
Zack,
Have to admit you have lost me there... that is if your post was aimed at me? If not then just ignore this!
No Smithy, it was aimed at Leipy. Spoke to him just before kick off and said "I've got the first 9 words of your post match article for you"

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: falconite (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 11:42

Quote:
wheelie
Only like you interviews and comments I have read, maybe things have been lost in translation!
He came, he didn't play, he didn't speak, yet we are talking about him, what a man!!!


Whether he asked to come or not, the bottom line is he had no control as to whether he played or not and evidently Laporte decided to keep him fresh for Agen. The weather could have played a big part in that decision.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 13:58

To be fair he does pop home unannounced every so often.

He probably wanted to get off and catch up with his family. There are many reasons why people have to dash off.

You could probably just give him a ring, Smithy and ask him for a quick couple of lines, though he may well make sure you have something next week anyway.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 17:12

Kwa,

He's not doing interviews telephonically or otherwise (at least he wasn't last week and Thursday, anyway).

"though he may well make sure you have something next week anyway"

Not sure what that means exactly. Yes, he might play in the game, but there are no press conferences or interviews with him scheduled that I have been made aware of. If that changes then great. If not, then no big deal.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Maccafan2 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 18:51

Poor,really poor.JW was a magnificent servant for the Falcons! He not only put his body on the line sometimes behind a pack that was going backwards,but always signed autographs,posed for photos and generally gave the impression he was a great bloke.Whats your beef Smithy?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: twlch (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 19:49

if i was earning 50k plus per game think i would sign a few autographs and put my body on the line

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 20:30

Yes but then you may not be the sort of person who is not comfortable with fame and is actually reclusive to some extent.

If you were then you would probably sign a few autographs because you felt you should, but would be quite happy to get home when the opportunity arose too.

Nobody should take the way he has acted as an affront. We have had more than our pound of flesh from the lad. If he wanted to get home from a game where he didn't feature quickly, then that is not unreasonable.

Maybe he was given dispensation to leave when he did. If so it's a shame he didn't think to stay, and how well it would have been taken if he had.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: twlch (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 20:48

if i was uncomfortable with fame i doubt if i would write a few books and have a national newspaper coloumn

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: falconite (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 21:24

[quote twlch]if i was uncomfortable with fame i doubt if i would write a few books and have a national newspaper coloumn[/quote

Don't judge him by the way you would react to fame. He is a complex character and 'though reclusive by nature, has handled the spotlight in a positive way by communicating his passion for rugby in the few books he has written and spending hours after games signing autographs when he must have been longing to go home and relax. Over the years he has given much to the sport we all love and there would be a very good reason why he didn't make himself available after this game.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: steve1888 (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 21:56

Love how everyone jumps to the defence of super jonny but let people like Maccafan slate the hardworking , honest and committed players likes Wilson,Graham and Fitzy etc.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Thespence_uk (IP Logged)
Date: 10 December, 2011 22:34

Quote:
steve1888
Love how everyone jumps to the defence of super jonny but let people like Maccafan slate the hardworking , honest and committed players likes Wilson,Graham and Fitzy etc.

Maybe people have more of a fondness for a player they have seen lift trophies. I take it your sarky "super Jonny" is fine though. The club advertised on the back of "super Jonny" returning because he has a place in many supporters hearts.

As for the 3 you have mentioned Fitzy & Wilson have improved a lot since joining us. Not sure about Graham though, I reckon Tait will sign Mayhew & that will be two hookers above Graham.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2011 22:37 by Thespence_uk.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Getitright (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 04:52

Memories appear to be long or short to suit the occasion.
Jonny's best years at the club will always be remembered however there is more to Jonny than himself. He has an entourage who help make his decisions and relationships with KP may not be as sweet as they used to be since he became a Francophile.

Whether this affects his judgement when asked to participate in interviews who knows but it certainly appears likely.

Without wishing to re-open an old chestnut, especially at Christmas time, remember the rumoured 'Twist' it never happened but it still may colour opinions and attitudes!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Falconfan (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 11:15

Get real Steve. Although Jonny has a global record second to none (which reflects brilliantly on the Falcons who developed him), the three adjectives you used to describe the three other players apply in spades to Jonny - honest -yes! - committed - yes, yes - hard-working - yes, yes, yes! I hope you were not implying that Jonny does not have these virtues - because he sure does!!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Maccafan2 (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 14:06

I've said all I want to say about 1899 on another thread.The players he mentioned are journeymen,Fitz is a reasonable one trick pony,and the other two are not 1st choice,although Tatty has seen fit to reward the Cumbrian with a 3 year contract!'Super Jonny'.Too right!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: oldlad (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 18:49

Quote:
Maccafan2
I've said all I want to say about 1899 on another thread.The players he mentioned are journeymen,Fitz is a reasonable one trick pony,and the other two are not 1st choice,although Tatty has seen fit to reward the Cumbrian with a 3 year contract!'Super Jonny'.Too right!
Isn"t a journeyman someone who is just along for the ride(so to speak) knowing subconsciously that they are not giving 100 per cent.Also a journeyman suggests associations with many clubs.None of the 3 players maccafan accuses are guilty of either charge.On thursday night in awful conditions all 3 of them played there hearts out for the CLUB! As for the "Cumbrian"he mentions which one does he mean?As both Wilson and Graham are cumbrians.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Maccafan2 (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 19:02

There is only one of the Cumbrians with a 3 year contract! Lets see how the 3 lads do on a balmy night in Toulon,if selected.Playing their hearts out will not be anywhere near good enough.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: alas (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 19:09

Oldlad a journeyman means a competent but routine worker or performer. Although Wilson is a hardworker I think that is a fair description of him.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: oldlad (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 19:24

Quote:
alas
Oldlad a journeyman means a competent but routine worker or performer. Although Wilson is a hardworker I think that is a fair description of him.
Sorry,I mistakenly thought calling a player a "journeyman" was an insult.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 20:31

Maccafan, you really don't like Mark Wilson do you? Did he crash into your car or something?



The South Stand Choir (NEW POST: Match reaction: Newcastle Falcons 18-23 Saracens):

http://thesouthstandchoir.wordpress.com


Big improvement.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: sour (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 20:41

Personally, think he's stepped up another level this year

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: mannin (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 21:35

Wilson is a hard working player who deserves his place in the squad due to his commitment and constant improvement. He's not there to be a starter at the moment and he's probably not on a huge contract either.

It's a no brainer to have given him 3 years in my eyes. If Tait would've given him 1 year, he would've been attacked from all angles if he left at the end of the season for another club.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Psycho (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 21:55

What a very unpleasant thread.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: lizard118 (IP Logged)
Date: 11 December, 2011 22:19

I have to agree Psycho.Whatever Jonny's reasons for not staying on I think we should just concentrate on what happened on the field.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: bird lover (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 08:57

There is nowt so funny as folk Psycho and that certainly applies on this board.Macafan is blindly opinionated it happens.Leipy, you have a particulare aversion to one of our 9s do you not ? maybe he has hit your car? Glass houses and that. and here we are back to opinions right or WRONG!!!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Almostan Oldgit (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 09:36

He will always be a top bloke in my eyes, I remember a time when he spent half an hour or more signing autographs and talking to fans after a game and when he got to my daughter he was dragged away by club coaches to do a warm down session - he promised her he would return after the warm down so she waited for an hour for him. Sure as his word, as soon as warm down was completed he came back into the ground, passed loads of fans (who he later went back to) and went straight back to the spot where he had left her, a memory that will stay in her, and my, mind forever.
Top top man who has gone way beyond the call of duty on many occasions, and to call him is churlish in my view.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: bird lover (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 09:42

How can anyone have a pop at him he was England Rugby for a decade. And some of our so called superstars should follow his example.A true world class super star,and a credit to the game.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Leipziger (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 09:46

Quote:
bird lover
There is nowt so funny as folk Psycho and that certainly applies on this board.Macafan is blindly opinionated it happens.Leipy, you have a particulare aversion to one of our 9s do you not ? maybe he has hit your car? Glass houses and that. and here we are back to opinions right or WRONG!!!

Fair point I suppose, although I don't have a car and I admit that said 9 has looked a bit better recently. Still not the best one we have though. In my opinion.



The South Stand Choir (NEW POST: Match reaction: Newcastle Falcons 18-23 Saracens):

http://thesouthstandchoir.wordpress.com


Big improvement.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: falconite (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 10:11

Anyone who has read Jonny's autobiography will know why he never played in that game. In the book he gave a very frank account of those final months with the Falcons covering all aspects of what went on behind the scenes. I'm glad I read it because it proved to me just how much he loved playing for the Falcons and how hard it was for him to leave. His loyalty was second to none.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 10:33

Maccafan,

I've got no beef at all. I always got on well with JW and have acknowledged his 'immense contribution' to the club many times in this thread alone.

I just felt that 30 secs speaking to the local press was a reasonable request given the interest surrounding his return to the club (playing or non-playing).

That is all. Nothing more. There is no problem between myself and Jonny.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: bird lover (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 10:44

No one can kill you for an opinion Leipy,it can be disagreed with and as long as it is not insulting or denigrating no problem.And as long as we keep winning and get some confidence happy days.You noticed Morriartys involvement as regards to being on pitch by minute lately?????

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Horus (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 18:32

Jonny retires...from international rugby. But he captains Toulon in their Top 14 match on 13th.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 12 December, 2011 23:15

Smithy:-

"It was just a shame that even a bland 30sec soundbite about his return for the local press was beyond the realms of possibility."

Perhaps he's so pi55ed off with the press just now that he couldn't be @rsed. Is that so bad? Who can blame him?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: TouchLine (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 07:47

Quote:
t was just a shame that even a bland 30sec soundbite about his return for the local press was beyond the realms of possibility."

What would be the point of just that anyway?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Rugby Rose (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 09:11

Quote:
TouchLine
Quote:
t was just a shame that even a bland 30sec soundbite about his return for the local press was beyond the realms of possibility."

What would be the point of just that anyway?

To thank people for their years of support?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 10:37

"Perhaps he's so pi55ed off with the press just now that he couldn't be @rsed. Is that so bad? Who can blame him?"

DG, I've done nothing to remotely pee him off. Not that I know of anyway. I always got on well with the lad.

"What would be the point of just that anyway?"

TL, Believe it or not people still have a huge interest in him and even a bland sound-bite thanking the NE public for their support would have been very well received. The absence of such a sentiment has certainly seen messages flooding my inbox, rightly or wrongly.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 17:00

Well it would appear that he was about to make a pretty important announcement in his life within a few days of the game, so maybe he wanted to get home to talk it over with his family.

I think I might have done the same, if it were me. I would certainly not be hanging around to talk to people about a game I didn't feature in with my preoccupation.

Think we could probably all forgive him for that bearing in mind how much he has given us, particularly those who are also England fans.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 17:39

I fail to see the correlation between yesterday's announcement and his decision not to give the local press less than a minute for a tame line about enjoying being back in the NE.

Two totally unconnected and separate matters.

I couldn't give a monkey's about his international future and would not have asked him about it.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: ninjaboy (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 21:43

Incredible stuff reading this. Maybe St Jonny didn't want to speak to the local hack. Who could blame him with his national press interests via his agents. Maybe he wanted to come back to see his long lost north eastern relatives, wherever they are... If all Smithy wanted was some "tame line" then why bother at all? Non story at all levels, and in any case Giteau leaves him miles behind as a players, and with far leads psychological drama.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Falconfan (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 23:06

This Ninjaboy is not a welcome addition to the website. Don't know where all this bitterness comes from. I suspect he is not a Falcons supporter. Still, he is entitled to his opinions, which I suspect are very much minority opinions.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 13 December, 2011 23:17

Agreed FF, clearly somebody that hates Jonny, not a Falcons fan then.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 10:07

"Incredible stuff reading this. Maybe St Jonny didn't want to speak to the local hack. Who could blame him with his national press interests"

Exactly. That is what the local press find so galling. A reluctance to engage with grass roots media in the local area, but a readiness to accept a large wedge from a national newspaper. Although in fairness I have not seen him do anything in The Times this week as yet, I must add that.

"If all Smithy wanted was some "tame line" then why bother at all? Non story at all levels"

To be totally honest as a personal opinion I actually agree with you, but believe it or not this is what the readers want to hear. The absence of a story qith a quote saying how good it was to be back in the NE and see old friends etc has provoked a significant volume of correspondence to myself, the tone of which is not great towards JW.

I do take your point though, and largely agree with it myself.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 16:45

Smithy I understand where you are coming from, especially as you have obviously had emails about it.

However, for someone who is reclusive and appears to still regard the Tyne valley as home he doesn't get many opportunities to come back in the season. Bearing in mind the fact he was thinking of retiring maybe he wanted to tell his family in person. He was probably keen to get away for both those reasons.

I also believe that one of the reasons he is so fond of the area is the fact that most of the media have a habit of forgetting about him up here.

I don't think anyone should be taking his silence as a slight. It astonished me that people seem to think he owes them anything, particularly being affronted because you didn't get a quote which you agree would have been relatively meaningless.

In a country where we all say far more than perhaps we need to or should on occasion, maybe we should be grateful for someone who is comfortable keeping their counsel.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 17:29

Kwa,

I can't agree with that.

Thousands of fans were interested in Jonny's thoughts on returning 'home', and the local paper was the ideal forum to satisfy that interest by describing his feelings and fondness for the region.

It would have taken less than a minute to do, and not involved any anxiety over imminent decisions or probing questions, and it would not have delayed him for family commitments longer than 60 seconds.

Rather than just being an isolated case, it is symptomatic of a sustained unwillingness to engage with a local media which has done nothing but support him throughout his career.

In fact I have never known a player less willing to co-operate with friendly local media.

Yes I can understand not wanting to speak to nationals sniffing around for an England line, but I've known the guy for years and I couldn't give a monkey's about England.

It is just a shame, that is all, and from the messages I received it has disappointed a large number of people.

I bear him no ill and there is no 'beef' between us as was suggested earlier in the thread, but snub the local media on what was clearly a big local story left a sour taste for many folk.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Cantabrian (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 19:26

Kwa

I agree with you.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Getitright (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 20:15

I think it's about time we put this to bed. Message is received regarding interviews and no amount of wishful thinking will resurrect the chance unless you head for Slaley or Newbrough at Christmas!!

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Thespence_uk (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 21:19

The rugby family in our office could not speak highly enough about JW 'off the field' return to Kingston Park as he posed for a picture for them & they got a England shirt signed by him.

Loads of things hack me off about the local media but JW bland quotes not being in them was not one of them. Felt more sorry for the folk who made the effort to go & see on cold night not see him come for 10 or so mins at the end.

Smithy from this "In fact I have never known a player less willing to co-operate with friendly local media." do we/I gather from your previous role @ KP you could not get JW to engage with local papers in the past?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 22:53

Smithy from this "In fact I have never known a player less willing to co-operate with friendly local media." do we/I gather from your previous role @ KP you could not get JW to engage with local papers in the past?

Correct.

He did the bare minimum occasional team press conferences and I cannot recall a single 1-on-1 interview he gave to the local media during my 5 seasons working with him.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Thespence_uk (IP Logged)
Date: 14 December, 2011 23:01

Well at least you know its nowt personal & it just the way he rolls with the local NE media. You best get packing you Bermuda shorts for your away day in France now!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/12/2011 23:02 by Thespence_uk.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 15 December, 2011 01:05

He's a private person, never did speak to the media much.

Remember that by many accounts he didn't leave KP on the best of terms, same with England I understand, so perhaps that's why he'd rather just keep his thoughts to himself.

Give him credit for that, not wanting to air his dirty laundry in public.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/12/2011 01:07 by DGNTR.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 December, 2011 10:20

DG,

The point being that I wasn't asking him to air his dirty laundry in public.

Merely to thank the NE public for turning out in their numbers and communicating his feelings about being back 'home' and how he has always enjoyed great support etc in the region.

I am not in the muck-raking business and couldn't give a flying fig about his terms of departure (even though I was there and know exactly what happened!)

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Cantabrian (IP Logged)
Date: 15 December, 2011 10:46

Smithy,for somebody happy to voice feelings about negative posting on this site you aint half making a meal of this.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 December, 2011 10:58

Fair enough. The case has been clearly stated and I will just drop it there.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: lizard118 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 December, 2011 11:24

Thank goodness for that, twas getting a bit tideous.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 15 December, 2011 21:12

I wonder if Jonny bought the Journal on the Friday morning.......

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: ninjaboy (IP Logged)
Date: 16 December, 2011 21:15

Falconfan,DGNTR. Sorry you feel I am unwelcome here. The irony is of course that smithy agrees with me. see his post of 14th dec. I'm no Jonny hater, but we are talking about a bloke who played some 150 games for the falcons in 12 years, hardly a great rate of return.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 16 December, 2011 21:30

No not a great return, but better than Carter at Perpignan, Thompson at Wasps, Tait at Leicester, Henson at Sarries & Toulon, to name just a few.

He featured very regularly until Betsen rearranged his shoulder in the 03 RWC semi final. After which he was never the same player.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: ninjaboy (IP Logged)
Date: 16 December, 2011 21:58

Kwa, I said "rate of return". I.e. The amount of games he club got for the investment they made. 150ish games in all those years is BAD value, especially considering how much he must have been paid.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Thespence_uk (IP Logged)
Date: 17 December, 2011 10:00

Quote:
ninjaboy
we are talking about a bloke who played some 150 games for the falcons in 12 years, hardly a great rate of return.

How many points did he get?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: markismith50 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 December, 2011 10:49

The stat that did it for me was that in his last 5 seasons he made just 25 league starts for the Falcons.

In that same period he made 25 international appearances (more if you count non-cap games on Lions and England tours).

All I said was that those stats, in the cold light of day, have to bring into question whether or not the financial outlay from the club was worthwhile.

One might well argue that it was still worthwhile given his commercial lure and his undeniable ability to attract other top players to the club.

I merely asked the question - I never voiced an opnion one way or the other.

And I also acknowledged his fantastic record in his first 6 seasons as a Falcon, stating that he will be rightly afforded legend status and warmly welcomed when he came back to the North East.

I was just surprised by the extent of the stats from his last 5 seasons, so I put them in the public domain. Some have obviously seen that as me having a pop at him. It was not.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Thespence_uk (IP Logged)
Date: 17 December, 2011 11:38

I had a browse on [www.itsrugby.co.uk] & it looks like the Falcons win ratio & number of losing bonus points picked up when JW played made the outlay worthwhile imo.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 17 December, 2011 11:49

I don't think anyone who reads you normally on here mistook your sentiment, Smithy.

Rate of return for a player is not just how many times they play - for a big name it is how many sponsors they attract, how many fans through the gate, how many shirts they sell, and how many other big name players they attract to the club, or developing youngsters they encourage to stay.

I think Johnny was worth every penny, and everywhere he played in the world, the name Newcastle Falcons went with him whenever the commentary was streamed.

I also suspect that when the club felt he no longer represented good value for money, they made a business decision to allow him to move on.

We should also remember that for although he sometimes didn't play much for us in later years, he was also paid a lot less than he may well have been able to get elsewhere.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/12/2011 12:03 by Kwa444.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 17 December, 2011 17:30

Laughable that ninja reckons the club didn't get good value for money from Jonny.

What a load of oarlocks.

Jonny Wilkinson is the biggest marketing asset the world of rugby has ever seen, and that is fact not opinion.

I also happen to know that the club now realise that parting company with Jonny was very commercially damaging to the club. He was the club's biggest asset for years, regardless of whether he played. Of course he would have generated even more cash for the club if he had played more but it is still fact that he generated more cash for the Falcons and English Rugby generally than anybody else in history, despite being injured a lot.

The decision to allow him to move on has cost the club a fortune. I would go as far as saying that the Northern Rock sponsorship deal was on the back of Jonny's value from a marketing perspective.

Remember that even for months after he left the press were still referring to the Falcons as "Jonny Wilkinson's former club Newcastle Falcons" such was the impact he was still having.

Anybody that thinks that Jonny was not value for money in all of the time he was at KP has the commercial nous of a newt.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: ninjaboy (IP Logged)
Date: 18 December, 2011 22:30

Commercial nous of a newt, perhaps... Don't know how I've managed for so long, DGNTR. I do manage to avoid posting homophobic comments online. Maybe something you could learn from?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Kwa444 (IP Logged)
Date: 19 December, 2011 19:36

I'm a little confused and think I may have missed something - could someone please point out the homophobic comment?

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 19 December, 2011 22:00

Ninja,

If you've managed for so long why not show that you have that commercial nous and acknowledge that Jonny was a huge asset to the club?

Very clearly he was so why suggest otherwise.

You are entitled to an opinion like anybody else but you've not backed up your low opinion of JW with reasons. I'd be interested to hear them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/12/2011 22:45 by DGNTR.

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: Getitright (IP Logged)
Date: 19 December, 2011 22:43

DGNTR,

Worst spelling of 'hear' that I've seen for ages

(Sm161)

 
Re: Hayman and Jonny return to defeat
Posted by: DGNTR (IP Logged)
Date: 19 December, 2011 22:45

Haha, typo GIR, well spotted

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