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Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Osric 06 July, 2016 23:20
Personally, I prefer to watch entertaining championship rugby than negative, dull premiership rugby ( as we saw here three seasons ago).
For the good of the game, we need a geographical spread of clubs. Fourteen teams would help.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
falconsfan07 07 July, 2016 08:24
I'd just keep it the same, if you had 14 teams the bottom one would just get pumped every week, prem is fine as it is in my opinion, scrap for our lives makes it more exciting and means the game means a lot more!

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
pa8 07 July, 2016 11:31
If we did away with relegation from the top flight it might mean more patience being shown to younger EQPs and less money wasted on inferior foreign imports such as Fry, Clever, Andy Tuilagi etc etc. There'd be less need to 'fix it now' and, hopefully, more time for the academy to produce.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Northumbrian 07 July, 2016 19:16
Or, have 2 conferences of 8 teams with no relegations, Play a team in your own conference twice and the other conference teams once (22 games). Then have play-offs, which at least seem more appropriate than play-offs in one league.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Leipziger 07 July, 2016 19:29
Quote:
pa8
If we did away with relegation from the top flight it might mean more patience being shown to younger EQPs and less money wasted on inferior foreign imports such as Fry, Clever, Andy Tuilagi etc etc. There'd be less need to 'fix it now' and, hopefully, more time for the academy to produce.

The Falcons have given plenty of game time to the likes of McGuigan, Scott Wilson (when fit), Robinson, Watson.

If Fry, Clever and Andy Tuilagi played 20 league games between them for us (out of a possible 110 appearances), I'd be surprised, so it's not them who are keeping young English players out of the team.

The Falcons and other teams don't sign foreign players because they are foreign, but because they think these players are the best they can attract and afford. Thus logically, the alrernative English player must be inferior or more expensive. Either way, the club loses put by spending more or having an inferior team, and of course having an inferior team could mean reduced crowds. Of course, if a club has no interest in actually climbing the league and just wants to plod along and keep collecting the Premiership money, then that's not a problem for them, but I'm sure most supporters would like to think their club has more ambition than that.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 07 July, 2016 20:13
If you were to ask Semore & Deano if together they could deliver a better future knowing that they can plan for at least the next 2 years, 3 years, maybe even 5 years in the Premiership I think I know what the answer would be.

I know some people are passionately wedded to the concept of relegation & promotion, but that is exactly my point, it is now just a concept, something to talk about, nothing more. It has already died, it is gone, finished, over. Maybe after the next 5 years of the same 13 teams playing a game of musical chairs with only 12 places, the annual farce of one of those teams dipping into the Championship then bouncing straight out again, and the Championship teams realising that no matter how much ambition they have, promotion is just never going to happen, people will finally accept that it is over.

RIP any meaningful promotion & relegation. I will mourn its passing as much as many others, but at least I will accept that it is now dead.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Osric 07 July, 2016 22:07
From the last three WCs there have been 8 SH semi finalists (including Argentina twice) and four from the NH. From them France (twice) and England (once) have promotion and relegation.
So 3/12.
As a Scot, it's irrelevant, but for the English fans out there could I suggest that a move to a fixed league might help the national game?

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Kwa444 08 July, 2016 08:19
Probably a very fair point that. Which goes hand in hand with the development of young English players. I don't agree with Leipy about the foreign imports being better or cheaper. They are used solely because at that time they have the experience in a results based relegation experience to hopefully keep the club up.

If relegation didn't feature do you honestly think that Deano or any other DoR would play a journeyman in front of a youngster with potential who is liable to be more committed for having the opportunity, and cheaper?

I would argue it is the reason Leicester were so strong until 2010 because until 2002 when they won a league without playoffs, they were so far in front by mid season that they could afford to risk developing players and see if they could make the grade. This carried them through for most of the decade. Imagine the players who might develop for England and the clubs if the clubs had this chance - like switching your development in F1 part way through a poor season.

At that juncture Leicester ' s academy was lauded, but I don't think it was better than others, they just gave their youngsters more of a chance, earlier.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
leemingtyke 08 July, 2016 18:24
GKIPA Championship fixtures released and Play Offs are retained.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
steve1888 08 July, 2016 18:47
Surely the club would suffer a bit with attendances without the relegation battle games and interest they generate.

Compare the pro12 and premiership rather than NH and SH.

To bring on youngsters it would be better limiting the amount of foreigners although Brexit may help that anyway if it goes through.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Kwa444 09 July, 2016 07:21
Wholly agree that would help Steve, though I think financial incentive seem to work best. As you say if there is no alternative that would work too though...

Yep play offs still seem to be in the Championship - was you statement in respect of the 2017/18 season, Monkey? - did seem rather close to the start of the season to be hearing about it for this season.

Don't agree about attendences - if the club are producing good rugby and stand a chance of winning a game, I am far more likely to watch than if they are rubbish and might just survive relegation. I have no enjoyment in watching the club scrape, and crawl and trip their way to retaining premiership survival. Just a huge sense of relief that they do.... I'm not a masochist so it's not fun and I don't want to watch.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
steve1888 09 July, 2016 09:48
I agree with you on watching Kwa but would we have got the attendances and atmosphere we did against Irish and Wuss especially without the must win game or relegation battle in there? Core support yes but doubt we would have seen the extra couple of thousand due to lack of interest.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
gtoughuk 09 July, 2016 20:50
Quote:
Osric
From the last three WCs there have been 8 SH semi finalists (including Argentina twice) and four from the NH. From them France (twice) and England (once) have promotion and relegation.
So 3/12.
As a Scot, it's irrelevant, but for the English fans out there could I suggest that a move to a fixed league might help the national game?

Don't forget France is full of foreign mercenaries who are only concerned about who is paying them a wage and not how the French national team is doing.


Quote:
Money1
I have to say that expanding the prem to 14 and also having promotion/relegation and also bringing back the stupid play-offs but not even between the bottom or top teams is about as close to insanity as you could get while still being allowed to walk the streets.

I understand your concerns about relegation, but I still feel it is needed to keep the sport competitive.

Other options for promotion/relegation include either the French system or rugby leagues super league. Neither is perfect. The French is league of 14 teams but bottom two relegated. Rugby league splits the league with bottom of the super league playing the top of the championship. Both have their pros and cons.

Whatever happens, there will still be arguments about if it's a good or bad idea.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Leipziger 09 July, 2016 21:52
There are of course pros and cons to every type of system Gtough, as you say, but as an old romantic I can't see me ever getting on board with ringfencing. I might be a cynic, but I can't believe that any cartel members (Falcons included) are supporting the wider interests of rugby when they call for ringfencing - they are solely looking at their own interests.

What kind of playoff system, if any, is not as important to me as keeping Premiership status down solely to what happens on the pitch (yes, that means scrapping the cartel's Minimum Standards Criteria, if that would ever happen). I don't go to a game to look at how pretty a stadium is or check a club's financial solvency. If these things are so vital, should we give clubs extra league points for being profitable and having nicer stadiums with bigger crowds? No, of course not, so why should such criteria play a part in Premiership status?

Anyway, best I just agree to disagree perhaps, and go back to looking forward to the sevens :-)

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 10 July, 2016 13:01
Where did the news come from that the play-offs had been scrapped? That info is now looking a bit dodgy.

If we do need promotion & relegation then it has to ne realistic. The way that funding of the Premiership & Championship have been developing over the last few years, a gap has opened up that is now looking impossible to bridge. Bristol & Exeter with their moneybags backers now look like being the last teams that will ever make the move.

I don't know what the answer is, but I am far from happy with the idea that one of the thirteen clubs spends a season lording it around the Championship then bouncing back up again. That doesn't do the Championship clubs any good & almost certainly doesn't do the relegated club any good either.

Answers on a postcard please......

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
bulmer22 10 July, 2016 20:32
Postcard to Monkey.

Mowden Park have a stadium far superior to Kingston Park. They have money in the bank. If they have the ambition they could be playing in the Premiership. They can just copy Exeter. Leeds can do the same if they get their act together. But only if there is promotion and relegation. Ring fencing or cartel making or whatever you want to call it is not good for the game and from what I've read on here, no one wants it apart from you.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 11 July, 2016 07:24
Bulmer.

1. Where have I said I want an end to relegation? I merely raised a point for discussion that it has become meaningless.

2. The cartel already exists.

3. If Mowden Park has the sort of budget required for life in the Premiership I will eat several hats.

4. Leeds no longer exists as a rugby club.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
bulmer22 11 July, 2016 07:36
Apologies Monkey, I thought the long essay that you made was all about scrapping relegation.

The point I made was that any club with ambition can make it into the Premiership.

I think we are in a great position now as a club, and looking at the fixture list, we can make a great start and build on that as the season goes on. I feel very confident.

Come on Falcons !

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Wensleydale Falcon 11 July, 2016 13:23
Mowden Park have money in the bank......really???

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Hideo 11 July, 2016 13:35
I would advocate an increase promotion and relegation rather than getting rid of it. Two up and two down would produce a greater turnover of clubs and give the chance, over time, for the gap between the leagues to narrow.

Restrictions on stadium size etc should be scrapped too, as this is prime among the financial reasons barring some teams from promotion.

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