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Next match

Next two matches

Season over.

Last result: Exeter Chiefs 36-5 Newcastle Falcons


England/France....
Running Rugby (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 17:33
England were absolutely awful against France this weekend. When watching the other sides, mainly Ireland, Scotland and Wales, it is glaringly obvious that the English coaches, are a bit behind on their approach to what can be called the modern game.

We have all been screaming from the rooftops for probably two or three years that England need an out and out seven, to act as the link man between backs and forwards, but more importantly, to give England an advantage at the breakdown. Now the players, are there, before anyone says it.

You have Sam Underhill and Tom Curry (granted both are injured), but you could also argue the case for Don Armand, Matt Kvesic, Lewis Ludlow (probably a bit inexperienced), Luke Wallace (who for me is the most underrated open side in the country) and Guy Thompson would all bring an injection of pace and intensity to the England back row, not too mention our very own Will Welch and Gary Graham. Mark Wilson, I see more of a 6/8, but he could still bring more to the team than we witnessed yesterday.

It is not just the back row, as the props could also do with a bit of a refresh, or at least rest the current starters and give someone else a chance. Kyle Sinckler was brilliant coming on yesterday, and deserves a start. Marler, for me, on form in better than Mako, and should start, and why not give Cowan-Dickie a go from the start.

The attack also needs to be polished, starting with moving Owen Farrell to 10, taking Ford out, and bringing back Manu Tuilagi, who may not be able to play a full game yet but will bring guaranteed go forward. Ben T'eo needs to be taken out and replaced by someone with a bit of creativity, like Henry Slade, who could and should be England's option at 12.

For me though, the major issue that England need to address is their lack of an established attack coach, as Eddie Jones, is not that man, and because of this, the team are completely devoid of ideas.

What are peoples thoughts? as England do not seem to get much discussion on here.....

 
Re: England/France....
pa8 (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 18:14
Totally agree with regards to the lack of an out and out seven although the players who have been getting the turnovers the last couple of years are no longer doing so. Itoje stands out, he used to be a real pest at the breakdown but seems to concentrate on trying to wind up the opposition with whooping and clapping at the award of a scrum.
Marler should definitely start IMO, Vunipola doesnít seem to be at the races recently. I can see why Jones keeps Hartley in the team, George had a big chance to stake a claim to the shirt yesterday and did three quarters of two thirds of SFA.
Dan Cole used to be in for his scrummaging as he does very little in the loose but he, as well, seems to be well off form.
Iíd certainly be giving Guy Thompson a look, been a fan of Wallace but he was woeful against us. The backs looked like they just met for the first time during the anthem.

 
Re: England/France....
dksniper (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 18:23
I watched the ladies game last night and we were out fought in the rucks by the French in the same way as the men. I think you may be right about what is being coached, particularly at the rucks.

 
Re: England/France....
DB23 (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 18:59
Englandís breakdown work is an embarrassment.

Robshaw is workmanlike but surely we have more potent back row players than him.
Lawes is just dreadful and is hopelessly out of his depth at international level (I thought the same about Tom Wood).

I could go on about individual players but the whole forward pack as a unit are ponderous and ineffective which completely negates the back line who can be brilliant out wide if given front foot ball by the forwards - thatís not happening.

We seem to have regressed, or flattered to deceive given the excellent results record over the last couple of years, but we look miles away from challenging for the World Cup.

 
Re: England/France....
AFalcon24 (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 19:44
The back row has looked unbalanced for a while, we miss Billy Vunipola but there is others what I think have been unlucky to miss out Don Armand especially, I also agree if Manu Tuilagi can stay fit what is a big ask sadly and get back to his best he is in for me. I did think especially yesterday England have slightly gone backwards and I worry for when we face Ireland. smiling smiley

 
Re: England/France....
AJfalc (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 21:33
First time ever that I have switched off a match. Exactly the same as the Scotland game, players getting isolated, another penalty given away.

 
Re: England/France....
Kwa444 (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 21:45
The problem is not just lacking an out and out 7. It is exacerbated by playing a lock at 6 ... and a lock coming from a team that are the most out of sorts they have been in years.

We were a lot better with Haskell at 6. Cowan Dickie is a joke though. He consistently can't get his throwing right - hence a perfect chance for a lineout and rolling maul for a try to probably win the game got thrown to a Frenchman.

Cole did a lot of work but Sinckler looks good too. Mako looks overweight and out of sorts. Marler looks hungry.

George Ford is out of sorts and Te'o somewhat one dimensional.

We were poor but then the French should never have had that penalty try. A penalty, yes. A yellow card highly dubious and certainly not a try.... which would have left us two points down in the closing stages.

 
Re: England/France....
Kath... (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 22:52
Don Armand been called up

 
Re: England/France....
Cantabrian (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 10:46
We looked complacent, over-coached and stale again. I think Eddie's selection policy has gone wrong, keeping faith for too long with players who have lost form and look like they need a break, plus we've got out of position players failing at international level.

Also, it's a familiar gripe to repeat, but it does appear that Eddie favours only half the Premiership clubs.I can't see what Earle, Lozowski, Marcus Smith, Teo and Wrigglesworth have shown this season to make them stand out.

Wasps, Gloucester and Newcastle are all in-form teams with only 3 representatives [all wasps]in the 32 man squad for the Irish game. Harlequins have 6 players in the 32 man squad.

I hope we can find a way to beat Ireland on Saturday, but whatever the result, HQ needs to
have an open-minded, root and branch review of the squad before the summer tour. The World Cup is only 18 months away, England needs to get back on track.

 
Re: England/France....
GeordieFalcon (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 11:27
Where is Gary Graham?

 
Re: England/France....
12 March, 2018 11:46
Neck injury, picked up on England duty.

 
Re: England/France....
Running Rugby (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 11:52
Quote:
GeordieFalcon
Where is Gary Graham?

I was thinking that, Gary Graham seems to have fallen off the map both at club and international level.

 
Re: England/France....
mannin (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 12:19
Wow. I was as upset as any England fan the last few weeks but to call out some the way you lot are seems a massive over-reaction.

The biggest issue is the Lions players are absolutely knackered and instead of managing them carefully. Ej has been beasting them. Top international players don't become poor overnight.

Despite this, I (and probably a huge amount of England fans) believe selection is poor in the back row and 10,12,13. Hopefully this is the wake up call Ej needed as this team isn't winning the World Cup.

 
Re: England/France....
eebagum (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 13:41
You make a good point mannin, and we need to look very closely at our squad selection between now and the World Cup.
Strangely tho, I don't think it's a 'massive overreaction'
You call out 6,7,8,10,12,13 then throw in an entire front row, 3 wingers and 2 second row Englishmen from the Lions Squad.
Yes, we certainly have some work to do to restore confidence before the World Cup.

 
Re: England/France....
GeordieFalcon (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 16:19
We're putting too little numbers in the breakdown and securing our own ball.

I appreciate this is for quick ball, when when your losing it...you need to change the tactics and make sure you keep your ball.

3 Examples!

1.
Ford v Basteraud in a ruck. It actually happened...HOW ON EARTH!!??

2.
There was one stage we were 5/10 m out from their try line and going forward and we put two men in to secure our ball...and france just flooded the ruck and won the ball - very easily.

WHY was the whole flipping pack not smashing through making sure we kept the ball!!??

3.
Another example was Launchbury v Ryan Wilson in the Scotland game.
Launchbury was stood on the ruck with his head down, half asleep...Wilson noticed it and absolutely smashed him out the way...and Scotland got the turnover. That is simply unforgivable at this level!

 
Re: England/France....
Leipziger (IP Logged)
13 March, 2018 08:20
Quote:
mannin
Wow. I was as upset as any England fan the last few weeks but to call out some the way you lot are seems a massive over-reaction.

Agreed. This is a team that had lost one game in two years until a couple of weeks ago, they've not become a bad side overnight. The criticism of Ford is particularly amusing, considering at the last World Cup some people seemed to want to exile Farrell to Siberia forever and hail Ford as the best fly-half in rugby history.

It's possible that England have been found out a bit, but it's not the end of the world that it happens now rather than next year when there's a World Cup coming.

 
Re: England/France....
GeordieFalcon (IP Logged)
13 March, 2018 08:44
The other question is how badly has the Lions tour affected this current England squad.

 
Re: England/France....
mannin (IP Logged)
13 March, 2018 09:32
Which is what I said

 
Re: England/France....
pa8 (IP Logged)
13 March, 2018 09:33
Might explain why Scotland have done so well this season. Without knowing how many games each player has had since the Lions tour, it doesnít seem to have affected Ireland though.

 
Re: England/France....
mannin (IP Logged)
13 March, 2018 09:33
Worrying thing is Scotland obviously did their homework and realised England commit low numbers to rucks to allow lots of option runners. Surely it was very obvious France would do the same if we didn't change our approach... Fool me once, shame on you etc.

 
Re: England/France....
Kwa444 (IP Logged)
13 March, 2018 15:17
Think the Lions will have had a huge impact. We supplied over a third of players, Ireland 25% and the rest less.

That said it is now an opportunity for Jones to test the rest of his options and know what is available against an excellent Ireland side.

I would be interested by Sinkler starting, and think Haskell and Robshaw will give experience and assistance to Simmonds, with Armand on the bench. Ford has been quiet but I'm not sure that resting him and playing Joseph is the way to go as JJ has not been in great form either. Ford is always going to be better when front foot ball is secured like very other 10 in the world. Hence why he looked so good against Italy and poor afterwards - we beat Wales with 35% of the ball!

 
Re: England/France....
Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 06:25
Thereís no doubt weíve played poorly but weíre not suddenly a dire team despite what the harbingers of s doom say. As with the national football team, you sometimes get the idea the media prefers losses as thereís more to write.

The Lions seems to have impacted us more as there is no let up in the AP compared to the Pro 14. I donít think we can use this as an excuse however.

Playing players out of position is always a risky strategy and I think Lawes has had a huge amount of unfair stick. Not changing the back row for France was a big mistake and Iím not sure if there was a little stubbornness here.

Would like to see Genge and Sinkler let loose and LCD given a shot, surely however, we can find a 7 unless Eddieís waiting for Brad Shields.

Well done Ireland however, no doubt played better than anyone else, not sure if anyone else has really progressed however.

 
Re: England/France....
mannin (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 09:05
Brad Shields isn't a 7

 
Re: England/France....
Kwa444 (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 12:21
Notice Slade has been released. Didn't know he was fit. Amazing to me that he is never picked bearing in mind I think JJ is out of form and we lack attacking inspiration.

 
Re: England/France....
mannin (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 12:38
Don't think he's match fit

 
Re: England/France....
Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 20:08
Quote:
mannin
Brad Shields isn't a 7

Oops, Iíll get me coat!


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