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Premiership takeover bid
Leipziger (IP Logged)
05 September, 2018 10:52

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Falc Dancer (IP Logged)
05 September, 2018 11:55
Spotted this earlier today
What exactly does it mean for premiership clubs ?

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
aidanb (IP Logged)
05 September, 2018 17:45
I think this bid means nothing because it is undervalued

however, it suggests the clubs organising body is looking to sell itself to the highest bidder

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Leipziger (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 08:42

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Rafpilot2000 (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 11:22
It appears the vote needs to unanimous and whilst most clubs are desperate for the money due to massive crippling debts it looks like Bath with their money bags owner and billionaire sponsor are going to veto it. Effectively holding other clubs to ransom.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Monkey1 (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 12:08
Quote:
Rafpilot2000
It appears the vote needs to unanimous and whilst most clubs are desperate for the money due to massive crippling debts it looks like Bath with their money bags owner and billionaire sponsor are going to veto it. Effectively holding other clubs to ransom.

To be fair, that is just the angle put on it by this particular journalist. There are other clubs with wealthy owners who may hold out for more, some sensibly run clubs with sustainable finances, and yes some with debts that could do with a windfall like this sooner rather than later. To portray it as Bath v the rest is almost certainly a gross simplification at best, and possibly downright unfair.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Siders (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 13:29
This article is particularly insightful on CVC's business model.

The inherent weakness we face is salary inflation from the continent and (increasingly) from Ireland. A buyout may write debt off but the structural problems may remain.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
aidanb (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 13:30
Quote:
Siders
This article is particularly insightful on CVC's business model.
The inherent weakness we face is salary inflation from the continent and (increasingly) from Ireland. A buyout may write debt off but the structural problems may remain.

I was hunting that very article down about 10 mins ago and got distracted.

Worrying times if they do approve it

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Cantabrian (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 13:51
Professional rugby is a great sport and very enjoyable to watch. Coupled with a family friendly atmosphere and a lack of diving [so far] it's no wonder that our game is growing.

However, we can't keep relying on twelve or so wealthy individuals to keep funding teams largely on their own.

I welcome the move to inject funds in to the professional game, so it can develop for the next generations. No doubt it will change, some dearly held traditions will disappear and traditionalists will be unhappy, but overall if it puts the game on to a sounder financial footing that can only be positive.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
aidanb (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 14:04
The RFU are surely the answer here.

It's their game and in their interests to have a healthy Pro game.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Leipziger (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 15:14
I saw that article early Siders, my immediate thought is that this potential takeover isn't a good thing. CVC will only have one motivation - making money for themselves, as much as possible as quickly as possible. No problem with that in itself, but it won't necessarily be by doing what is in the long-term interest of the sport or its teams. Yes a £17m cash injection would be a huge boost for most clubs, but at what cost further down the line, when ever more TV and sponsor money is creamed off by CVC who will own most of the commercial rights?

Football and F1 display obvious warnings of what happens when sports sell out for a few more quid - they lose control and lose their souls.

Yes pro rugby isn't sustainable as it is, but I don't think this deal is a good answer.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Falc Dancer (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 18:37
Any takeover is about making a profit
The clubs might get an initial payday but in the long term any new third party owner, driven by profits, will look to make changes in order to make money
The USA is a massive market that Premier Rugby has/is trying to break in to. I would expect any new owner to take that into overdrive, probably in the form of more games abroad leading to big tele rights sales

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Monkey1 (IP Logged)
11 September, 2018 18:57
The bid has as expected been rejected according to the FT Online

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Kwa444 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2018 19:34
The problem is that as you say it's a windfall. Like killing the goose which lays the golden egg because you feel peckish. Only a short term fix. Inherent problems need more.

Also CVC were strongly criticised for F1 because they were focused on maximising profit to the sports detriment. Whether there is truth to that I can't comment, but one can say for sure that they will sell when the time is right for them and there is no saying who they will sell to.....

A certain portly sports clothing vendor could be interested for example.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2018 19:35 by Kwa444.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Monkey1 (IP Logged)
13 September, 2018 07:07
The best long-term strategy would be to have more dynamic leadership within the current ownership. If the potential for higher future incomes then surely it would be best to nurture this for the benefit of the clubs rather than profits of some foreign entity. Surely this what the RFU should be encouraging, and perhaps they are, but I wouldn't count on it. This would be to their benefit after all, for the game in England to be nurtured well rather than used for profit for some non-English corporate body.

There will of course be pressure for a huge cash injection from a few clubs who have a massive and urgent need to clear debts. There could be some heated debates if a unanimous decision is required to make any sort of progress.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
aidanb (IP Logged)
13 September, 2018 16:19
Quote:
Monkey1
The best long-term strategy would be to have more dynamic leadership within the current ownership. If the potential for higher future incomes then surely it would be best to nurture this for the benefit of the clubs rather than profits of some foreign entity. Surely this what the RFU should be encouraging, and perhaps they are, but I wouldn't count on it. This would be to their benefit after all, for the game in England to be nurtured well rather than used for profit for some non-English corporate body.
There will of course be pressure for a huge cash injection from a few clubs who have a massive and urgent need to clear debts. There could be some heated debates if a unanimous decision is required to make any sort of progress.

Can you smell the wage cap silence all over again

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Leipziger (IP Logged)
10 December, 2018 15:15
£200m bid for 30% expected to be approved tomorrow. But warning that the money shouldn't go on higher player wages.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Cantabrian (IP Logged)
11 December, 2018 11:11
The former owners of Formula One buying 30% of PRL for £200 million provokes mixed feelings.

On one one hand I'm happy that the clubs and long suffering owners will get a cash boost so our game will be on a firmer footing. On the other hand, I fear we can expect rampant commercialisation of absolutely everything associated with the sport as CVC and the broadcast media look to maximise their return.

As a boy I was brought up to cherish rugby's Corinthian spirit in the Lancashire mud and now in my seventies a new era of rugby globalisation is bearing down on us. Whatever, so long as the Falcons thump Edinburgh on Sunday, I'll be very happy.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
aidanb (IP Logged)
11 December, 2018 11:31
Quote:
Cantabrian
.... Whatever, so long as the Falcons thump Edinburgh on Sunday, I'll be very happy.

What I as a supporters have to remember is I just want our team to do as well as they can.

the management behind the scenes is all interesting etc and so on

But as long as the team keep doing their best then I am happy

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
11 December, 2018 20:21
While there’s little doubt the game needs sorting in this country as so much seems to rest on the shoulders of a few benefactors am not sure this is the answer. The worry would be we’d end up with a similar situation to football where post Sky’s billions we still get players who can’t kick with their wrong foot, can trap the ball further than most can kick it and where games frequently have more match officials than English players. Ultimately the national team has been dire until good old Gareth was brave enough to go for a really young squad. Basically Sky’s millions has done nothing for the national side and I kind of worry about a similar scenario for rugby.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Monkey1 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2018 06:42
As far as our club is concerned we will have a bit of a windfall, it takes a bit of the pressure off Semore, and we have a management team who have a lot of experience at being sensible with money instead of p***ing it up the wall. It can only do us good. What other clubs do with it is entirely up to them, but I have faith that our lot will invest it wisely.

Going forward, a minority commercial input could be good for the game. It is up to the other stakeholders, principally the club owners, to steer it in the right direction.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Falcons_Thunder (IP Logged)
12 December, 2018 10:36
Quote:
Monkey1
As far as our club is concerned we will have a bit of a windfall, it takes a bit of the pressure off Semore, and we have a management team who have a lot of experience at being sensible with money instead of p***ing it up the wall. It can only do us good. What other clubs do with it is entirely up to them, but I have faith that our lot will invest it wisely.
Going forward, a minority commercial input could be good for the game. It is up to the other stakeholders, principally the club owners, to steer it in the right direction.

North stand redevelopment sounds like a good option if this money does come. Interested what money chiefs will get as they are only a shareholder while Leeds/Yorkshire are languishing in the championship?

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Getitright (IP Logged)
12 December, 2018 22:05
Think all clubs holding P shares get the same. They’ve been holding out for £20m each and appear to have been successful.
It was only a matter of time before the deal was agreed. Whether it’s in the long term
Interest of the league only time will tell

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
aidanb (IP Logged)
13 December, 2018 19:31
I can just see Seymore rolling around in his well earned £20m.

What a reward for his commitment.

Ps I wasn’t trying to poke a stick at Seymore because without him we would be in big trouble. He’s been brilliant for the club.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Falc Dancer (IP Logged)
14 December, 2018 18:06
£20m would go a long way
Clear some debt, finish the north stand and invest the rest in the clubs bricks and mortar and we need a rainy day fund set aside just in case



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/12/2018 18:07 by Falc Dancer.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
14 December, 2018 22:35
Sounds good to me F Dancer, just worry that a lot of other teams will go down the panic buy route to stave off relegation using the medium of very average foreign talent at the expense of home grown players.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
NorfolkFalcon (IP Logged)
14 December, 2018 23:57
This is a catch 22 for me. The RFU boss urges this money goes towards facilities and not player wages. I can’t see how this will happen with the threat of relegation being a real possibility for the establishment however I doubt CVC would invest in a ring fenced league. One big reason that the Premiership attracts audiences is the competitiveness of the league which is driven by promotion/relegation.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
limpopo (IP Logged)
16 December, 2018 10:25
Quote: “One big reason that the Premiership attracts audiences is the competitiveness of the league which is driven by promotion/relegation”.

No, to the contrary, it is games like Bath Leinster which attract audiences, Bath with the possibility of relegation, the cup a pay day possibly, but a distraction from the realities of surviving in the Premiership and all it brings,and the difficulties both financially and logistically the Championship offers; Leinster with no such problems in their league going for the glory of the Heineken. The sort of rugby on display yesterday is what, most people anyway, want to see, not the defensive dirge of teams desperately trying to avoid the drop.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
lizard118 (IP Logged)
16 December, 2018 11:28
In the end there will be no agreement. Ringfencing good for England but not so good for developing grassroots rugby everywhere. Smacks of self interest and someone mentioned Cartel somewhere.

I don't advocate ringfencing as I dont think it's good for the growth of the game of rugby. I think central contracts whilst keeping promotion and relegation is the way forward. Everyone wins. There would be a limit to the number of games played by England players.

I'm not really that bothered by European championships in the same way I am about the league games. European games are your bonus, not your salary. I think
this is what makes the premiership the best league in
the world, there's something hinging on near enough every game. And this is why only the premiership and top14 attract big numbers. We already have a good product hence interest from CVC. Definitely make some tweaks but keep promotion and relegation.

With all the advantages accorded to any relegated team, I think relegation is overrated anyway. If you can't come back up then you don't deserve to be in the top tier.
The only reason there's so much noise now is the real possibility one of the big boys could end up getting relegated. No team should be exempt from relegation except by performing.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
NorfolkFalcon (IP Logged)
16 December, 2018 15:33
Quote:
limpopo
Quote: “One big reason that the Premiership attracts audiences is the competitiveness of the league which is driven by promotion/relegation”.
No, to the contrary, it is games like Bath Leinster which attract audiences, Bath with the possibility of relegation, the cup a pay day possibly, but a distraction from the realities of surviving in the Premiership and all it brings,and the difficulties both financially and logistically the Championship offers; Leinster with no such problems in their league going for the glory of the Heineken. The sort of rugby on display yesterday is what, most people anyway, want to see, not the defensive dirge of teams desperately trying to avoid the drop.

But you’re talking about European competition. Of course that’s going to be more attractive than the likes of Falcons vs Northampton or Scarlets vs Zebre.

Without relegation the domestic tv would not be as good. Simple.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
limpopo (IP Logged)
16 December, 2018 18:58
Sorry I don't quite see your point, I was referring to the attractiveness of the Bath Leinster game and the reletive approaches that the two teams would take, the sides they may put out, with one with the fear of relegation the other about which it is not relevant. Your point, certainly in mine and others opinion that I have talked to, concerning domestic tv not being as good as we perhaps watch a struggling team in boring defensive dirge, does not hold water. However, no doubt we shall agree to differ

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Leipziger (IP Logged)
16 December, 2018 21:15
Quote:
lizard118

I don't advocate ringfencing as I dont think it's good for the growth of the game of rugby. I think central contracts whilst keeping promotion and relegation is the way forward. Everyone wins. There would be a limit to the number of games played by England players.


I don't think you can have relegation and promotion under central contracts - you'd have so little control over your players it'd make it pretty unfair.

Quote:
lizard118
With all the advantages accorded to any relegated team, I think relegation is overrated anyway. If you can't come back up then you don't deserve to be in the top tier.
The only reason there's so much noise now is the real possibility one of the big boys could end up getting relegated. No team should be exempt from relegation except by performing.

Agree, getting relegated isn't a problem, it's not coming straight back up that's the problem but with the parachute payments and the neglect of the Championship, if you don't come back up you've only yourself to blame.

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Leipziger (IP Logged)
16 December, 2018 21:20
Quote:
NorfolkFalcon
This is a catch 22 for me. The RFU boss urges this money goes towards facilities and not player wages. I can’t see how this will happen with the threat of relegation being a real possibility for the establishment however I doubt CVC would invest in a ring fenced league. One big reason that the Premiership attracts audiences is the competitiveness of the league which is driven by promotion/relegation.

Facilities are being improved at the moment (our North Stand for example, or Northampton's new stand a couple of years ago). And where wages would really be inflated is clubs like Saracens, Wasps and Leicester, which would need to pay top wages to keep their top players, but these are clubs who don't really have to worry about relegation.

Farrell, Itoje, Daly, Manu Tuilagi for example will be on pretty big money but that's not because of the threat of relegation, it's because if e.g. Saracens don't pay Farrell big money, someone else will, and it'd cost the same amount to replace him anyway (if you even could replace him with someone of a similar standard).

 
Re: Premiership takeover bid
Kwa444 (IP Logged)
17 December, 2018 19:43
Not sure why CV would have an issue with ringfencing. They owned formula 1 - No relegation there - you can play as long as you pay....

Relegation may be interesting this year because of the number of teams involved and yes, promotion should be straightforward after relegation. The problem becomes the retention of status after that and the extra costs from buying players to compete and revenue losses from relegation.

As promotion is almost a given, the only achievement of relegation is to massively penalise financially the relegated club and handicap the future financial footing.

In many sports (e.g. football) I think it has a very useful and fair place. In our sport it's a moronic anachronism.


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