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Hide Cips
1978Wasp (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 16:08
About halfway through the 2nd half, the BT commentators were eulogising about Cips being a very verbal organiser of the team. 5 mins later they put up his tackle stats:

Made 4
Missed 7

He was not the only guy who missed a tackle on Ben Te'o yesterday, but I think we need to revert to the tactic we had when he first started playing for us at 10, when we moved him out a couple of places or to full back in defensive plays and someone like Riki Flutey used to stand in the 10 channel.

He is not in the side for his tackling, so lets work round the issue.

 
Re: Hide Cips
coddy (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 18:14
We used to have Joe Worsley in the 10/12 channel ready to chop down players like Jamie Roberts and his ilk. Perhaps we need someone like Haskell or Johnson to do a similar job when we are up against teams that use a bosher in the centre's.

 
Re: Hide Cips
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 18:36
I wouldn't be surprised if we do to a certain degree already. However, it's hard to hide these days. So many backs are huge and powerful runners, and if you try to hide someone out wide in defence, the opposition are just as likely to go hunting for them.
If they get through a tackle out wide, there's less cover so it would prove more devastating.
Another reason Danny was shipped wide in the old days was so that we could attack quickly off turnover ball. These days, our entire back line is made to be clinical in those situations so having Danny out there is less of an advantage

Danny's may have officially missed 7 tackles, but I suspect they were ones where he slowed the runner sufficiently to allow someone else to complete it.
Maybe a new stat should show fly half tackle assists

 
Re: Hide Cips
Spikey910 (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 19:25
Agree with StevieWasp and I don't think it's such a big deal. Lots of 10s are vulnerable when trying to stop a bigger player head on. Steensen, Ford, Hodgson at Falcons, they all get bumped sometimes by runners charging down their channel. Danny has been better in recent seasons but when he goes too high like he did a lot Sunday he often gets brushed off. I'm getting bored of everyone citing this 7 "missed" tackles though, it didn't lead to anything, and as Stevie says, as long as he flaps around enough to slow the runner down until the cavalry arrives. Some of his side on and cover tackling was good, but he's never going to Jonny W head on.

 
Re: Hide Cips
Beasties (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 19:25
Getting bumped off is not a "tackle assist". It's baffling why he goes so high all the time. His tackling has improved a lot relatively recently but he was very poor on Sun.

 
Re: Hide Cips
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 19:38
Quote:
Beasties
Getting bumped off is not a "tackle assist". It's baffling why he goes so high all the time. His tackling has improved a lot relatively recently but he was very poor on Sun.

There's lots of 2 on 1 tackles in every game. Do both players get a successful tackle, or is it only attributed to the player that is first to make the tackle.

I'm happier with cipriani slowing a runner down enough for someone to do the job properly than I am for him pretty much stand aside and let them straight through (which he's been criticised for in the past).
It'd be interesting to see how many of those 7 missed tackles resulted in clean breaks for Worcester.
I'm sure some probably did, but I doubt it'll be all 7

 
Re: Hide Cips
Montagu (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 20:04
It's not just that he missed or 'slipped' a few tackles. Watching it back he showed zero positional awareness, technical ability or commitment time and again. I'm not being hyper-critical, he's a massive talent and contributes a lot. Considering he's managed to get to international level whilst being often incapable of demonstrating a basic tackle shows what a class attacking threat he is. I just don't understand why, during his journey, he's moved away to Oz, learnt to play 'back foot rugby' at Sale and prefers surfing in Malibu to late nights now but hasn't bothered to demonstrate a passing ability to tackle correctly.

 
Re: Hide Cips
backdoc (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 20:16
Alex Kind did the same - he would add his weight to the attacker until someone else stopped him.

 
Re: Hide Cips
ClaretAndBlueWasp (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 20:29
Talking about being bumped off tackles did anyone see Genge bumping Hartley on Saturday. If that was me tackling Genge I would be finished. (I used to be a goalkeeper so a slight touch and I'd hit the deck)

 
Re: Hide Cips
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)
11 September, 2017 21:02
Quote:
backdoc
Alex Kind did the same - he would add his weight to the attacker until someone else stopped him.

Don't know about that. I remember Kinga defending a 5 yard scrum against a dominant Leicester pack. Then England captain Martin Corry picked up for what looked an easy try only to be hit by Alex and driven back about 5 yards.

 
Re: Hide Cips
backdoc (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 07:14
Trev, not week in week out, and Alex was carrying a shoulder injury after 1999.

 
Re: Hide Cips
Just (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 07:30
By the same token we've seen Danny put in good hits too, most of the time though he seems to offer more of an obstacle than an actual tackle, I wonder if this is tactical, with the kind of game we play you want your backs on their feet, particularly your half backs so when the ball turns over you can counterattack fast.
Teo made him look bad yesterday because of that long strong fend, it never looks good when you get shoved off, but he was doing it to some much bigger guys than Danny too

 
Re: Hide Cips
RossM (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 07:40
Back in the old days Shaun Edwards said that he didn't want his fly half to be buried at the bottom of a ruck but up and in place, ready to speedily react to any turnover ball.

 
Re: Hide Cips
12 September, 2017 07:54
31/3/07 HC Quarter-final v Leinster. Alex was a tackling machine.

 
Re: Hide Cips
DuncanS (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 08:30
Farrell has a tendency to go high in the tackle, and does sometimes get bumped. No-one questions his defence.

 
Re: Hide Cips
Essex-Sarrie (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 09:25
Quote:
DuncanS
Farrell has a tendency to go high in the tackle, and does sometimes get bumped. No-one questions his defence.

I think that type of tackle will be used more now that there is a bigger emphasise on offloading. Tackle chest to chest it very difficult to get the ball away.

Farrell usually tackles high because of the sarries tendency to go for a 'choke tackle'.

 
Re: Hide Cips
Beasties (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 12:03
Quote:
DuncanS
Farrell has a tendency to go high in the tackle, and does sometimes get bumped. No-one questions his defence.
Really? Maybe most of the pundits don't but that's down to his God like status on TV. Plenty do criticise his defence. His tendency to rush up gets covered over for Sarries because the rest of the team compensate. JJ is such a good defender alongside him he doesn't get criticised much for Eng but put him in a lower quality team and things'd be different. He also gets away with things that others would be pinged for. I'd love to know what JJ thinks of his defending off the record.

 
Re: Hide Cips
Mellie (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 18:23
My son, who has been tackled by Farrell, doesn't rate his tackling ability at all. Says his technique is poor.


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