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Back-up at fly half?
Paul Smith 01 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 10:19
Interesting possibilities here...

[www.coventrytelegraph.net]

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Nomad_Wasp (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 15:35
Thanks, Paul, always a good read.

I wonde rf, after last night, Umaga is being seen more as a playmaking 12 than a 10

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
bg (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 16:21
Sometimes you have to fall-back on 3rd or 4th choice players in the squad. See if they sink or swim.. see who's got the cahoonas to step up to the plate.

Everyone was slightly nervous about only having Ash and Cruse as hookers.. but Cruse has stepped upto the plate and is taking his opportunity.. arguably most improved Wasps player.

All squads face the same dilemma.. you can't simply buy yourself out of a problem (well.. unless you're Saffies)

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Spikey910 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 16:34
Quote:
bg
Sometimes you have to fall-back on 3rd or 4th choice players in the squad. See if they sink or swim.. see who's got the cahoonas to step up to the plate.
Everyone was slightly nervous about only having Ash and Cruse as hookers.. but Cruse has stepped upto the plate and is taking his opportunity.. arguably most improved Wasps player.

All squads face the same dilemma.. you can't simply buy yourself out of a problem (well.. unless you're Saffies)

I think it's a bit different at 10, especially if he's going to be your front line goal kicker.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 17:30
We've used Miller at 10 before when required, but you don't win championships with your 3rd choice fly half.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
matelot22 (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 17:44
Quote:
StevieWasp
We've used Miller at 10 before when required, but you don't win championships with your 3rd choice fly half.

Precisely why we need to start safeguarding Cips and Jimmy with some rotation, sooner rather than later.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 17:54
Quote:
matelot22
Quote:
StevieWasp
We've used Miller at 10 before when required, but you don't win championships with your 3rd choice fly half.

Precisely why we need to start safeguarding Cips and Jimmy with some rotation, sooner rather than later.

Indeed, however bad luck happens.
It would be typical that the one time we put Gopperth on the bench, either he or Danny gets injured.

That's why Dai is already thinking about plan B or C

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Marlow Nick (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 18:17
Wasn't that at least part of the reason Lozowski left - a perceived lack of willingness to take a risk and give him a chance

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Raggs (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 18:18
Umaga in his u20s appearances looked more like a 10 than a 12, but that's purely physicality. If he's just a late blooming sort of guy, and that PI muscle comes in, then he'll be fine at 12. He has the silky ball handling skills, but a number of players have that, the difference between the good 10s and the great 10s, is the decision making. It's what makes Cips so exceptional, he can do all the no-look passes etc, but he can also assess the situation in a fraction of a second and tends to choose one of the better of the 4 or so options each time.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Steve. S (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 20:21
I believe Dan Robson used to play fly half. Now wouldn't it be good to see him and Joe Simpson on the pitch together.
Would certainly save some money, we have a spare scrum half anyway, it's something that I would be intrigued to watch.



Heaven was full, Hell thought I was going to take over.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
12 September, 2017 22:15
Quote:
Marlow Nick
Wasn't that at least part of the reason Lozowski left - a perceived lack of willingness to take a risk and give him a chance

More to do with Cips and Gopps being better i think...

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Raggs (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 04:43
Quote:
Hymenoptera
Quote:
Marlow Nick
Wasn't that at least part of the reason Lozowski left - a perceived lack of willingness to take a risk and give him a chance

More to do with Cips and Gopps being better i think...

Cips didn't enter into the equation, he was a late acquisition. Gopps was considered first choice, and Loz would have been competing with Jackson for 2nd. I still don't think Loz is all that special at 10 myself, but think he has a lot of potential at 12.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Snewbs (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 07:53
Loz started in the ECC 1/4 away in Toulon after looking very impressive with his off the bench cameos. If that's not backing him and taking a chance I don't know what is.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
13 September, 2017 08:02
"you don't win championships with your 3rd choice fly half."

Riki Flutey - 2008 Premiership final.

Aaron Cruden, then Stephen Donald - 2011 RWC Final.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
greenwood (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 08:23
Riki Flutey was outstanding that day as were James Haskell and Tom Rees.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Raggs (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 08:24
Quote:
Snewbs
Loz started in the ECC 1/4 away in Toulon after looking very impressive with his off the bench cameos. If that's not backing him and taking a chance I don't know what is.

Personally I think he'd have been second choice, but second choice behind Gopps would have seen him get less game time than 2nd choice behind Farrell. And if it's gametime he wanted (and apparently was), then Sarries was the right choice. He got very fortunate with Farrells injury last season too. But as I said, for me he's not a great 10. He has the handling skills, unsure on his reliability with kicking skills (not just place kicks), but I'm not sure if his decision making is good enough to be a great. As a 12, I think he could do very well.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Nomad_Wasp (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 13:50
Quote:
Beer Today, More Tomorrow
"you don't win championships with your 3rd choice fly half."
Riki Flutey - 2008 Premiership final.

The pack were so good that day and so utterly dominant that I think I could have played fly half and we'd still have won. The comfiest of arm chair rides.

As for Loz, it's interesting that he's now stalling on a new contract with Sarries as, surprise surprise, he's sitting behind Owen "just signed a new five year deal and is going nowhere" Farrell. Which is exactly what everyone said would happen when he left. He'd definitely be an improvement for Quins if he wants to stay in London, as is rumoured.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 14:22
Quote:
Steve. S
I believe Dan Robson used to play fly half. Now wouldn't it be good to see him and Joe Simpson on the pitch together.
Would certainly save some money, we have a spare scrum half anyway, it's something that I would be intrigued to watch.

Don't like the idea of risking both our first choice scrum halfs if both our fly halfs are injured! (Sm124)

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Snewbs (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 17:10
Quote:
Raggs
Quote:
Snewbs
Loz started in the ECC 1/4 away in Toulon after looking very impressive with his off the bench cameos. If that's not backing him and taking a chance I don't know what is.

Personally I think he'd have been second choice, but second choice behind Gopps would have seen him get less game time than 2nd choice behind Farrell. And if it's gametime he wanted (and apparently was), then Sarries was the right choice. He got very fortunate with Farrells injury last season too. But as I said, for me he's not a great 10. He has the handling skills, unsure on his reliability with kicking skills (not just place kicks), but I'm not sure if his decision making is good enough to be a great. As a 12, I think he could do very well.

Raggs, totally agree with everything you've said. I was pointing out that he was given a massive chance with Wasps, nothing to do with why he left or his qualities.

Back to the topic of a third fly half if either of the first two is long term injured: yeah, obviously bring one in - that's what the injury dispensation is for. The risk of playing them both has been clear to us all for one season and two games, however injuries forced Dai's hand a little last year, first to Beale then to Eastmond and Miller. Now he has the depth he wants with Gaby, JDJ, Eastmond, Daly, Macken, Armitage and Gopperth (and perhaps Umaga too) the chances are he'll utilise these players. If he saw Gopperth as a 12 then he'd already have signed another 10 - but clearly he doesn't and this year he signed centres not fly halfs.

 
Re: Back-up at fly half?
Paul Smith 01 (IP Logged)
13 September, 2017 17:14
Yes, he definitely is.
Dai is a big fan - says defence is jacob's work-on.

Paul

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