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Re: Scouring the globe...
NellyWellyWaspy (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 17:53
I prefer to support the team and club, through the years to come.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Anonymous User (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 18:46
Raggs spot on - no good listing players like rowlands, Willis, Macken, Garrett - they're already involved.

The squad is already being tested. Okay - no one said 10. But I stand by my point - is there a suggestion that anything positive might come from playing eastgate for example behind a pack stretched thin and partnered with a relatively new 9 in hampson or one struggling for form in Simpson? Not sure.

Seems to me we are already finding out plenty about our wider squad guys and seeing plenty more like Bassett and rieder step up into real quality players. If we came out of this season with rieder, Willis, rowlands, Garrett, lundberg, macken and hampson all established as first team players / leaders that would be a hell of a good return. Added to the Daly, launch, guy, Sam jones, Nathan, wade, Bassett etc brigade.

I don't think the development of players is an issue. If theres additional quality out there id like to think we'd be open to it. This isn't like the relegation year when chucking those young lads in and scraping enough losing bonus points was all that mattered. We've already seen the flip side to the new era - no cips, no Beale, no le roux, no tries, very little to excite and a team losing at home....nelly might carry on going. We all might. But there aren't 20,000 people on this board and crowds are down. The 20,000 come to be entertained and if the product isn't there then quite quickly we might not have the money to bring in or retain the best talent - and this whole thread will no longer be a relevant discussion.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Cornish Wasp (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 18:53
I appreciate that we are in an increasingly commercial (ie results-driven, football-style) environment but our successes in the past have come from a stable squad. On the other hand, Saracens struggled for years whilst buying in a string of ‘stars’ from other parts of the rugby world. It is only in more recent seasons that they have had a more stable squad, with commensurate success. It is not surprising that aspiring youngsters have wanted to play for them and this has borne fruit. On a positive note, if Wasps were able to play at their stellar best from last season, parents would be moving their family home to get their offspring into the Wasps Academy! It would be a huge disappointment if our Academy became like premiership football academies, where the youngsters have no progression into the first team, as they are overlooked for so-called superstars from abroad

Re: Scouring the globe...
Busterwhite (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 18:57
Interesting reading, agree with most points but I also feel this is our underlining problem hence another post called team of individuals, for far to long now I feel we have been a team based on Individual skill and play then teamwork, has this come from our new mindset of promoting big name signings for bumper crowds? What does it say to academy players when the cheque book brought out straight away? Is this the answer to our problems? Short term yeah we have new faces to fill those injury prone shirts, but I honestly feel this is the root of our problem and how we are dangerously becoming this team of individuals then a team, and that in my opinion is our current problem, big games last season we lost was because certain individuals didn't perform we neve had a dig deep team performance plan B

Re: Scouring the globe...
bg (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 19:30
I'd stick with the squad we've got.. we're going through a bit of a bad patch but I don't think it will be helped by bringing in SH players on 2 or 3 month contracts. Throw the young guys in at the deep end and see what they can do... Jason Leanord played for Eng when he was 20 or 21.. Wilko even younger.. thinking about now.. Smith at Quinns has been thrown in and is doing well like Genge coming from Bristol to Leic.. some people just thrive on the pressure.. so lets see who can... it can't get any worse than it is currently.

For what its worth, I think Cruse has been our most improved player.. he was thrown in at the deep end because there was no-one else.. Seems solid at scrums.. very good around the park.. throwing in at the lineout isn't always the hookers fault

Re: Scouring the globe...
Raggs (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 19:40
A lot of those Saracens youngsters stayed with Sarries a lot longer than our youngsters were sticking with us. Spending a lot of time dual registered with championship clubs. They really haven't all broken through at the age of 20. I'll let people argue as to how Sarries were able to keep young players happy for such long periods.

They now have a very settled squad, and at times they can definitely bring in a couple of youngsters, off the bench especially, and look good with them. There are still times when a few too many of their stalwarts are injured, and they look lost, their loss against Wuss last season would be a very informative watch for anyone who wants to see what a disrupted Sarries looked like.

We're already testing squad depth at prop, lock, backrow and 12, with issues at hooker, scrum half, fly half and potentially fullback. This is not an environment to bring in yet more uncertain players. Equally, I don't think it's the right environment to bring in a Beaudan Barrett type player. I'd like to see high quality, but does the job by the numbers, potential recruits, and whilst I'd hope we're beyond the Andy Goode type days, he was exactly the sort of player that wouldn't hurt us now, extremely capable and able to slot into the system. We don't need superstars, but we could do with looking at reliable top level performers.

Re: Scouring the globe...
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 19:57
I'd rather scour the globe to see if anyone of real quality is available now, than wait 2 months and find we're in desperate need due to more injuries and discover that anyone that was available is signed to contracts.
Just cos we're looking, it doesn't mean we'll sign just anyone... We know Dai. He'll try to find someone that will genuinely improve us, or he'll make do with what we have.

Saracens current stability was built on top of their high profile signings. This helped them being the youngsters into a winning team which makes the process easier.

Tom French was exceptional up against Julian White, who at the time was still one of the best specialist scrummagers in the world, even though he was getting on a bit. Despite a team of big names, we were huge underdogs that day and I was expecting a cricket score against us... So much so that I didn't really want to go... But I'm so glad that I did.

Finally, i don't agree that we've just been a team of individuals. Our play over the last couple of seasons has been developed on the training pitch, running good lines at pace, often directed by cipriani. Blackett added a number of moves as well as structure to our attack.
This is teamwork, not individuality.
So far this season, things haven't worked. Some fans are immediately saying that players have lost form, aren't up for it, have been found out etc.
However, in reality, things just haven't clicked yet, and that's probably due to inconsistency of selection.
If Exeter or Saracens change their 9, 10, 12, 13 combinations in every game they'll suffer massively too.

We need to ride the storm and things will eventually come back to us

Re: Scouring the globe...
Busterwhite (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 20:04
We need some dog back and need to stop forcing the play by having no shape, we look a bit like England pre Eddie jones remit, couldn't actually tell you what our game plan is, now I'm not saying Dai needs to get on the dog n bone and run it by me, and I'm not slating Dai or the team here wasps are more to me than just a rugby team, but I do honestly feel we are lacking some form of spine to the team if we struggle to go wide or force it we collapse,

Re: Scouring the globe...
Busterwhite (IP Logged)
03 October, 2017 20:06
Suppose my point is I sometimes think the players look a bit clueless when plan A fails, if were not creating the space to Score from small phases we either turn it over or kick possession away

Re: Scouring the globe...
NellyWellyWaspy (IP Logged)
04 October, 2017 06:28
Well, the debate, for now, on should he, is over. He has. I started another thread.

Re: Scouring the globe...
Anonymous User (IP Logged)
04 October, 2017 08:37
The team of individuals stuff is nonsense. A team who didn't work as a unit would simply not produce the kind of telepathic rugby they have the last two years. Broadly it's the same players - just heavily disrupted and suffering in confidence.

And exactly the point above - no one is saying go and sign superstars / big names. Guys who can drop into a system and quickly raise everyone around them - and be leaders. I don't know why you'd say no to that.

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