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Kruis dropped
Heathen (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 14:51

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Lwasp (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 14:52
But defo ahead of Launch in the pecking order. Sure I read that somewhere???

(Sm161)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2017 16:47 by Lwasp.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
will311293 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 15:11
Seems strange.... they kept Charlie Ewels as well.... not sure about this.

Also I know they kept Slade and Joseph but id much rather see Daly at 13 and Roko/May on the wings..

But realistically it will be slade/joseph 13 and May/Daly wings

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 15:24
He was poor on saturday and like i said after the game would be lucky to keep his place. Itoje will take his place on saturday and call the line out and start with Lawes unless they move Lawes to 6 and then Launchbury comes into the starting 15, if not he remains second row cover.

I think Ewels has been retained to continue to train with the squad and he will probably start against Samoa next weekend so keep him around the squad and wrapped in cotton wool i guess

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Cornish Wasp (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 15:30
Lwasp says that he is ahead of Joe in the pecking order, as he was with the Lions selection. However, Kruis was dropped after the first test and never played in the test 23 again, if my memory is correct (it often isn't!). Huge bias in my statement admittedly but I feel that he is Borthwick's protege and has similar skills to his mentor - a line out nause who contributes very little else to the game.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 15:38
I agree Cornish, I do think Kruis is better than Borthwick and is very solid defensively, the problem for him is Itoje has become a complete lock in that, he can scrum at TH as he did on the lions tour and in the six nations, call the line out at a high level which also being great everywhere else and I think Borthwick and Jones now have every faith that Itoje can perform that line out calling duty that Kruis had as an advantage over someone like Launchbury for example.

I think now no one can accuse the coaches of having any saracens bias, Kruis has been dropped but Itoje will be the one taking his place not Launchbury unless Eddie decides to play Lawes at 6 which i don't think he will for Saturday but you can never be so sure with Eddie.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
DGPWasp (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 16:14
I think there's a good argument for starting Joe ahead of Lawes in terms of impact on 50/60 mins. Lawes off the bench and maybe even into the back row in place of Robshaw with 20 mins to go wold arguably have more impact than bringing on Launchbury at that stage. I expect Eddie to start with Joe on the bench however.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
DGPWasp (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 16:17
Or is this more underhanded shenanigans between the England and Sarries coaching teams and their secret pledge to give all the Sarries boys a good rest? Marler to replace Mako for Samoa???

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Hucks (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 16:30
if jones still believes in finishers he'd start launch and bring lawes on for impact. that gets the best from both of them.

lawes & itoje also seems a little too showy. in any good partnership someone needs to do the dog work.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Lwasp (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 16:48
Sorry Cornish, edited for clarity. Not my view, just the most often stated on this forum by our guests.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Westy68 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:04
How many chances has he had, Kruis has been poor for several games now and he has taken the place of someone who continues to put motm performances in, when picked.

I'm just not buying this line out call rubbish. Itoje is the best lock full stop and it has nothing to do with line out calls. It is very close between Lawes and Launchbury, Kruis at best is 4th choice.

Don't get me wrong Kruis is a very good player for Sarries but he doesn't put in the same performances in, at International level. Plenty of players have been like that.

I can understand the Lawes move to 6 and Launchbury as 2nd lock, that is 3 very good players in the starting 15



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/11/2017 17:07 by Westy68.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:09
Kruis is a very good player but so are Itoje, Lawes and Launch. It doesn't take much of a drop in form for the pecking order to change considerably. It wasn't that long ago Lawes was way down the order.

Kruis will be back. Hopefully he'll be have to force his way back into the 23 with exceptional performances, rather than Borthwick pulling strings.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Westy68 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:11
Quote:
Trev's Big Tackle
Kruis is a very good player but so are Itoje, Lawes and Launch. It doesn't take much of a drop in form for the pecking order to change considerably. It wasn't that long ago Lawes was way down the order.
Kruis will be back. Hopefully he'll be have to force his way back into the 23 with exceptional performances, rather than Borthwick pulling strings.

+1

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:12
DGWasp, you make a good point, Lawes is better for impact than Launchbury but i do think he will still go with Lawes starting though as Lawes had a very good game last week even though all Barnes talked about was Underhill, Lawes had the most tackles of any England player since Eddie took over as coach last week, Opta tweeted, i don't think he will be dropped, also the aussies gave wales a very hard time at the line out last weekend and Lawes is a much better line out forward and i think he might have Ewels on the bench because of that for this game covering the back row.

As for Mako, he played 3 tests for the lions, he deserves to rest and i for one hopes Mako does not start but i think Marler will be on the bench as he has not played for a bit.

Hucks i don't get the showy point though or the dog work, I would say Lawes a few years ago was like that going for the big hit but he is becoming a complete lock with his only real weakness his scrummaging and i don't think doing dog work is something Itoje cannot do, he does that and more.

I also read somewhere before the start of last season's six nations title and Eddie does not think Launchbury and Itoje fits as a second row combination, I don't know why but i remember seeing that in a telegraph article, hopefully he changes his mind and at least tries it in one game and it probably will happen with injuries but i think it'll be Itoje and Lawes this weekend

 
Re: Kruis dropped
GeorgeTheWasp (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:15
Is it just the cynic in me that sees that Dominic Day was injured for Saracens leaving them with just Skelton and a reserve and that England have plenty of choice in the second row so Saracens get a player back?

I really hope not, but it seems glaring after kruis consistently gets the call ahead of Launch for England and Lions?

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:22
Westy, I agree 100 percent with you, Itoje is the best lock and i think Lawes and Launchbury, it's a toss up between them and i think they both have strengths the other does not. There is also the option of Lawes at 6 i guess.

I just read an article by Alex Lowe of the Times about Kruis where he said England sources have said that Eddie views Ewels as more of a world cup lock than Kruis, now that really is big news and will be a big fall for him.

I know Eddie really rates Ewels and he played from age 17-19 with Itoje at England level so they have a good understanding, he can also play multiple positions as he has played 6 and 8 for Bath and Eddie was very impressed with his line out calling. He is still behind Launchbury and Lawes for the moment but in 2 years time you never know, he is a dark horse player as every time i have seen Eddie talk about him, he raves about him.

He might get his chance from the bench on saturday and he will start against Samoa, Kruis better be praying that he does not do so well as if he does do well, I can see Kruis tumbling down the pecking order and as we have seen with Launchers, even top rate performances does not easily change his mind once he has a pecking order

 
Re: Kruis dropped
RossM (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 19:31
Yes, but does Ewels call f*cking lineouts???

 
Re: Kruis dropped
westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 19:32
Eddie is not a mind changer on players, unless by mind changing you mean giving someone the hook in the first half. Generally once you are out, you are out. Circumstances may force his hand in the forwards, but in the backs he would, for example, rather eat turds than pick Goode or Wade having decided their talents are not for him. Up front he has gone back to Wood when needed, for example, and I can see him returning to Kruis.

I doubt he will change his mind on Daly being a winger, either, which is a shame given May could miss out. I am hoping his "keep the players on their toes" does not slide into a France style scattergun policy if we lose a couple. Let us hope we don't find out.

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Westy68 (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 19:33
Quote:
GeorgeTheWasp
Is it just the cynic in me that sees that Dominic Day was injured for Saracens leaving them with just Skelton and a reserve and that England have plenty of choice in the second row so Saracens get a player back?
I really hope not, but it seems glaring after kruis consistently gets the call ahead of Launch for England and Lions?

I think you can say the same thing about Loz. On the bench one week and makes a good appearance, to suddenly not in the 23. Very odd

 
Re: Kruis dropped
Gaz (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 06:45
Daly isn't even the best English left wing at his club, let alone in England. another baffling selection from Jones.

I'd say if he isn't the best 13, which on form he isn't at the moment, then he gets a bench spot by virtue of his versatility.

Then again, I don't think JJ is the best 13 on form at the moment either, so it's a toss up between creating competition for places and putting Daly in at 13, or trying Slade there for 60 minutes. International squads aren't always selected on form so I expect JJ at 13 and Daly at 11.

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