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Dai talks about Defence
bournender2 (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 15:39
To Planet Rugby


[www.planetrugby.com]

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Hangover (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 16:12
Couldn't agree more Dai, attack wins games, defence wins Championships.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
John Tee (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 16:28
It is a lot better in recent times so someone has gotten the message across so congrats to that.
One of the biggest tests will be this week against Saracens but if we get a fair amount of ball we will definitely score.
I think the LR was a bit freakish as we stuffed them the following week but their attack was impressive nonetheless in the first game.
Saracens have that dull thumping relentlessness and we need to run that out of them.
If they stay in the game it gets harder.. But it will be an interesting match of different styles.
Let hope the good...and gloriously entertaining guys win over the team from dullsville.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Wayoutwest (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 16:54
Hmmm..."team from Dullsville" ? Leading points scorers in the AP?

I think it will be a great game between two high scoring sides and a good warm up for the game against Ospreys the following week.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Anonymous User (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 17:07
Good piece, thanks for link.

I'm not too concerned - I don't think you can come out with a La Rochelle defensive effort every week. Teams like glaws and bath we seemed to sense we could always out score whereas La Rochelle at home it felt like defence was the target from minute 1. We are also having to pound quite a few players into the ground at the moment - notably Big Mac, Carr, young, de Jongh and le roux. It's tough to ask them to keep turning in 80 minute defence every week. Having mullan, Taylor, rieder, jones, rowlands and eastmond back will be huge in that regard - if you feel someone is carrying a sore shoulder or something you can actually rotate.

Flats was talking on his podcast about marler I think, who he regards as one of the best defensive props around, and saying that he could never hit like marler as for most of his career he has two knackered shoulders and if he'd tried to hit shoulder first with any force he'd just continually dislocate them. These guys have so much running wear and tear even the 'fit' ones aren't really fit. So it seems to be about picking your battles. I imagine we don't see sarries as a game we can score 6 tries so we'll need to target keeping them under 20 points to give ourselves a chance and will focus on defence accordingly

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
John Tee (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 19:38
Quote:
Wayoutwest
Hmmm..."team from Dullsville" ? Leading points scorers in the AP?
I think it will be a great game between two high scoring sides and a good warm up for the game against Ospreys the following week.

You don't think Saracens are dull... ?
Wonderfully efficient with a honed percentage game but it is as dull as dishwater.
Wigglesworth is kicker....and when you say tries scored, who is scoring them and how...
They are the best unwatchable teamout there, I'll give you that.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Hangover (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 22:29
I would focus on Exeter, who have conceded nearly 100 points less than us and its only just over half way through the season. However, the injury issues and constant changes in personnel can't help us.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 02:25
I have never understood why some equate points with entertainment, especially those Sarries fans who defended their team style of two/three/four years ago with the refrain "we scored x tries" . Totally soporific wins by 40-15, ball repeatedly kicked at every opportunity, every game won the same way by grinding teams down and emptying the bench to score big at the end when the opposition pack were stuffed was not everyone's cup of tea. Of course it is subjective, you could enjoy watching paint dry, watching aerial tennis, trainspotting, the Euro vision song contest or whatever and you could hate flowing moves from beneath your own posts, glorious sunsets, and real alcoholic beverages and you would be entitled to do so. You also get no prizes for style. Nonetheless you have to be pretty dense to not get the fact that it is not the number of tries or points but the manner in which they are scored that people complained about. Fortunately Sarries play a bit more nowadays and most of their fans are delighted about that I am sure, but if they resort to Wigglesworth kick chase all game "we scored a dozen tries" will not be given any consideration in my household.
Of course I would take a three nil win if it were offered, in the end how you win is irrelevant, although I am proud of the style we attempt to play.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2018 02:29 by westwaleswasp.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Raggs (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 06:37
Sarries really aren't that dull these days. They're still very insistent on not playing in more riskier areas for the most part, but a lot of their attack is quite good.

Farrell isn't an individual threat like Cips or Ford, but he is probably the most improved rugby player I've seen. He makes good decisions within Sarries gameplan, he runs straight to the defence (whilst they aren't terrified of him, he still fixes them to a degree), keeps his hips straight and tends to make reasonable decisions as to who to pass to. It looks rather robotic, and I think that comes from him having to train it, and force himself to play that way, it doesn't come naturally, but he is very good. I don't rate him at 12, since for me a 12 really does need more individual threat, and whilst he's very good defensively for a 10, he's average for a 12 (especially at international).

I'd rather watch Sarries than Exeter for the most part.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
matelot22 (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 07:20
Quote:
Raggs
Sarries really aren't that dull these days. They're still very insistent on not playing in more riskier areas for the most part, but a lot of their attack is quite good.
Farrell isn't an individual threat like Cips or Ford, but he is probably the most improved rugby player I've seen. He makes good decisions within Sarries gameplan, he runs straight to the defence (whilst they aren't terrified of him, he still fixes them to a degree), keeps his hips straight and tends to make reasonable decisions as to who to pass to. It looks rather robotic, and I think that comes from him having to train it, and force himself to play that way, it doesn't come naturally, but he is very good. I don't rate him at 12, since for me a 12 really does need more individual threat, and whilst he's very good defensively for a 10, he's average for a 12 (especially at international).

I'd rather watch Sarries than Exeter for the most part.

Agree with all that, Chiefs are the new Sarries. The latter have opened up their game a little, but Chiefs quite the opposite. Living down here in Devon, I have to associate with a large number of CHiefs fans, they all think I'm winding them up when I say Chiefs play boring rugby.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Raggs (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 07:38
Chiefs can be exciting, can't deny that, but it often comes after 10+ phases of grind to get the opposition defence in disarray. They aren't as bad as Sarries were a few seasons ago however.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 07:41
Quote:
matelot22

Agree with all that, Chiefs are the new Sarries. The latter have opened up their game a little, but Chiefs quite the opposite. Living down here in Devon, I have to associate with a large number of CHiefs fans, they all think I'm winding them up when I say Chiefs play boring rugby.

On the basis that that's correct, what does it say?
Sarries recently lost 7 on the bounce, Exeter are defending champions and well clear in the league this year.

It suggests to me that a tighter game plan is the way to win competitions

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Raggs (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 08:02
Quote:
StevieWasp
Quote:
matelot22

Agree with all that, Chiefs are the new Sarries. The latter have opened up their game a little, but Chiefs quite the opposite. Living down here in Devon, I have to associate with a large number of CHiefs fans, they all think I'm winding them up when I say Chiefs play boring rugby.

On the basis that that's correct, what does it say?
Sarries recently lost 7 on the bounce, Exeter are defending champions and well clear in the league this year.

It suggests to me that a tighter game plan is the way to win competitions

Sarries are european champions, and were playing the same style last season of tactical, but pretty attacking rugby. Exeter are champions by a few minutes in the final, and we wasted a lot of attacking chances in the first half. If they'd have dismantled us entirely, and won comfortably, you'd have a decent argument, as it is, I don't think there's much to choose between the styles.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 08:26
Dai has a lot more realistic and objective viewpoint than some people on here. You will not win trophies if your defence is weak (and winning 40-30 on a regular basis does suggest it's flaky at best) and you don't have an adaptable gameplan.

I'm a Sarries supporter and I enjoy watching Wasps play. At your best it's wonderful to watch. Those people who believe that Sarries can't play equally devastating attacking rugby when they choose are, as other posters suggest, roughly living in the years 2012-2015, although even then it was developing.

I just think Wasps and Sarries have come at it from different directions. Sarries defence first and then developing their attack. Wasps attack initially and now improving their defence. Sarries are marginally ahead (as evidenced by trophies in the cabinet) because we started the process earlier.

And yes we do use kick/chase more than anyone else because it's been effective, but don't let that blinker you to the other more positive aspects of our game.

Really looking forward to the weekend. Hope it's a great match.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Raggs (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 08:33
No one is suggesting our defence doesn't need work, but it's never going to be our main focus, as it was for Sarries.

Sarries are definitely ahead, but then their serious cash injection came a fair few seasons before Wasps, who only really got going with the signings in the 15/16 season (and that was slowly).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2018 08:33 by Raggs.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
RossM (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 08:58
Mechanical, robotic are just two words that spring to mind. Doesn't make it bad though just damnably effective. But robots can be broken and machines wear out. To continue the metaphor - let's put a spanner in their works and loosen a few rivets on Sunday.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Raggs (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 09:07
Quote:
RossM
Mechanical, robotic are just two words that spring to mind. Doesn't make it bad though just damnably effective. But robots can be broken and machines wear out. To continue the metaphor - let's put a spanner in their works and loosen a few rivets on Sunday.

That could describe Farrell, but not the likes of Mako, Koch, George, Brits, Goode, Billy, Spencer, Williams etc etc

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
RossM (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 09:25
It wasn't so much individuals that I was thinking about but the team and McCall's game plan as a whole.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Raggs (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 09:28
Quote:
RossM
It wasn't so much individuals that I was thinking about but the team and McCall's game plan as a whole.

Game plan in their own half, certainly, but in the opposition half? I'd disagree.

 
Re: Dai talks about Defence
Spikey910 (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 09:30
They’re a much more entertaining team with Spencer at 9, I really dislike how Wigglesworth plays. To think he’s probably Eddies fallback if Youngs or Care get injured!! Loz gives them more creativity when he’s involved as well, as for years before anything interesting always had to come through the Goode Britz axis. It’s astonishing how many of their tries have come from those two combining and injecting some pace and even the odd risk!

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