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Squad and budget
Twickwasp (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 20:10
Feel like there must be something strange going on if we are letting go 3 first team squad players go-Bassett, Thompson, symonds.

I rate all 3 players for the match day 23 and can't believe we will get better players in.
But more concerningly why are we letting these players leave? We won't get better in.
Or do we budget in such a way for big names and hope others will take less.
So saints, tigers and quins have come in and trumped us.
Or are they being offered first team opportunities?
Whichever it is pretty disappointing. You clearly need a very good 2 if not 3 of each player. To succeed in the league.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Dgwasp (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 20:19
It's not just new big names though, we've re-signed Daly, Launchbury and Miller. Who are all improved players and no doubt taking up more cap than before. You could argue that having so many player contracts come up at once is bad planning but sometimes that is how it goes.

In terms of those three Bassett would be the biggest disappointment. Rowlands has come in this year and can replace an injury prone Symons and Thompson is the wrong side of 30 and possibly after more game time.

 
Re: Squad and budget
coddy (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 20:20
Do you not think you are jumping the gun a bit? None of those 3 have been confirmed with only Guy being a strong rumour of leaving who would be replaced by Brad Shields.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 20:25
And you presume we are 'letting' them go..players move for their own reasons as well.

I Daly worse than Josh?
Is Shields worse that Thompson?
I Symons that much better than Rowlands?

Not sure i agree with your concerns in any aspect

 
Re: Squad and budget
wombles222 (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 20:34
Rowlands is a player i rate highly, and want to see more of him in the first XV, Shields is class no matter which way you call it, although I would love to keep hold of Guy as he has an abrasiveness and style you can build a team around. Josh is a cracking player, but if rumours are correct then the money he is being offered at Saints would be hard to turn down, and as Rugger is a rather short career it may well be head over heart decision, and who can blame him for ensuring his families financial security.

I think TwickWasp we have to accept that in this era of professional rugger players can and will continue to move, all clubs will have this debate, but one thing is for sure, if we are attracting the likes of Sopoanga and Shields, whilst retaining the quality of Launchers, Daly, Wade (and hopefully Cips) then we really are onto something special!

 
Re: Squad and budget
PestNproud (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 21:17
Any or all of these moves look like huge compliments to Dai — i.e. saints, tigers and quins looking to Wasps to fix their problems. Not a situation or challenge we’ve had for a long time. Leicester looking to us to boost their pack... who’d of thought!?

Also a compliment to recruitment under Dai, and he may have had the horrible decision of whether money best spent next season on retention or acquisition (new gems as well as stars). If you’re a future Bassett, Thompson or Symonds, Wasps must be amongst the most appealing clubs to go to develop and progress.

It’s struck me as ironic in recent years that Leicester alumni has arguably been stronger than its incumbents (also Notnots, and possibly Worcester, northern clubs, too, though those all for more understandable reasons). Hopefully, we can keep far away from that situation, and be considered to get the better from players, as Lozowski and Vunipola at Sarries hurts all the more for them getting even better over there. Going to be interesting to see what happens to Chiefs and Sarries over next few years as their crops of homegrown talent mature.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Heathen (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 22:00
Our home grown talent will start to make a bigger impact in our squad, once our roots in the area are well matured. Yes, we have some lads coming through but the days of the Rob Smith production line will take a few more years (if ever) to replicate.

It is interesting to note that our academy manager is the same guy who was responsible for the young talent that is becoming more prominent in the Sarries squad now.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Hucks (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 22:59
They're all good wasps players but none of them would be heartbreaking to see go.

Would you rather retain them and lose wade or Daly or launchbury? Or Hughes? Robson? Jake? Tommy Taylor? Ash?

You just cannot keep that many good players happy.

Seems to me we've locked down most of our 'essential' players.

Shields and sopoaga are unbelievable signings that would improve any side outside New Zealand.

Guy is great but Willis has come through, shields is a fringe all black and we hear positive news on jones. Plus we all want Carr to sign. Add young and Hughes in and guy is probably 7th choice. Rieder re-signed too. You can't keep everyone.

Bassett is a real success story. But there's more than one strong voyce-like winger around. Not as hard to replace as a cips or a Taylor would be. You only have to look at how Byron mcguigan has gone from Chiefs reserves to a top class international to know that there are plenty more rough diamonds to be found - just like Bassett and guy themselves were.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Twickwasp (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 23:05
I accept the professional era point.
However, I feel exeter and sarries would have held onto these players.
Please read properly- I am not saying he is better than Daly, that are squad players that you need- the likes of Chris wyles, kai Horstman, All of the exeter reserve front row.
We won't sign better as squad players. Think Bassett is the biggest loss, he is 1st reserve line behind Daly and wade, which means with England games and injuries he could expect to play at least half the games.

Our squad is too small as it is. Do we have any academy wingers coming through? I'd say Bassett looks way better than them.
If we are going to succeed, you can't develop a player, he then starts playing his best and then leaves. That's a mid table/ bottom philosophy.
So, back to my point I'm intrigued to know why.
I can accept cips going to France and even not retaining Haskell ( shields and Willis are superior)

Anyway, the biggest recruitment we need next season is a second choice tight head, coz PDJ should be nowhere near any premiership team, least alone ours!

 
Re: Squad and budget
jonnydeane (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 23:18
Toulon TH vd merwe rumoured as is Kieran Brookes and aaron jarvis from Clermont

Owain James coming through academy, probably not quick enough to be a winger long term but could be brought through there and nurtured to later turn to full back.
Wonder if Tom Howe regrets leaving now. Could well have been pushing for the left wing spot next season.

Think Bassett will be a huge loss but he is not irreplaceable at all and actually think wingers are the easiest position to find good young English talent.
McGuigan is a good example and look at Exeter with woodburn and short, two wingers not good enough at their former clubs.
Plenty of good young 'unknown' wingers about as well as some slightly bigger names like Earle, Lewington, Cockanasiga (sp) and Fowlie who could all be looking to move on. No need imo to now go out and buy a leiua or halai to play on the wing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2018 23:24 by jonnydeane.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Spikey910 (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 23:22
Hmm, Twickwasp I think it’s you who needs to do the re-reading. I think your original post has been answered by several, well argued replies. None of which have you seem to have taken on board.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 23:49
Please Read - you presume we are 'letting' them go..players move for their own reasons as well.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Hucks (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 07:51
You develop a player, he starts playing his best, he's not your first choice though, and then moves to be first choice elsewhere.

How is that a bottom table team policy? Players who aren't seen as good enough for our first xv are actively courted by aspirational teams. That's the sign of a team doing something right.

You'll also absolutely sign just as good, if not better squad players. Let's not get carried away here - none of the guys you mention are internationals, and we picked them up in the championship. There are always new versions of that.

I distinctly remember this kind of reaction to billy leaving. Signing some i Unknown 21 year old from Auckland itm cup side wasn't exactly seen as a good like for like. How's that going do far? And this isn't a billy level problem

 
Re: Squad and budget
Sloppy (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 09:54
Its simple maths, Symons,Thompson and Bassett have been offered much more money at other clubs, so of cause they will move on, good luck to them.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Twickwasp (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 22:15
So personally even before tonight, I would have Bassett ahead of Watson, symonds in the starting team, Thompson on the bench.
Just think they are big losses (if they go) and we should have tried to match others wages, like other top teams would.
Consistency in terms of team selection brings success. Constant chopping and changing every 2 years won't- sarries and exeter model.

 
Re: Squad and budget
neils (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 12:53
Just watched Leo Cullen of Leinster agree that it was good that over Christmas he was able to rotate 37 first team players to keep everyone fresh for his team choice today. 37 fit players - dreamland!!!

 
Re: Squad and budget
Heathen (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 13:25
Quote:
neils
Just watched Leo Cullen of Leinster agree that it was good that over Christmas he was able to rotate 37 first team players to keep everyone fresh for his team choice today. 37 fit players - dreamland!!!

How big is their squad?

 
Re: Squad and budget
neils (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 13:34
According to Wikipedia 45 plus 21 Academy (some like Larmour are playing first team). Plus Leinster A players in the B&I cup yesterday.

 
Re: Squad and budget
Heathen (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 13:41
Dai would be happy with that!

 
Re: Squad and budget
BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 17:11
Quote:
Heathen
Our home grown talent will start to make a bigger impact in our squad, once our roots in the area are well matured. Yes, we have some lads coming through but the days of the Rob Smith production line will take a few more years (if ever) to replicate.
It is interesting to note that our academy manager is the same guy who was responsible for the young talent that is becoming more prominent in the Sarries squad now.

Actually Heathen, excuse the intrusion, but that isn't right if you are talking about your Academy Manager Jonathan Pendlebury. He was previously at Yorkshire Carnegie as I understand it. Our Academy Manager is currently Mike Hynard - who was responsible for the crop of players such as Owen, Jackson, Jamie, George K, Will Fraser etc and before that Andy Saull, Adam Powell, Steffon Armitage, Don Barrell, Tom Mercey, Alex Goode etc - in between, Don retired and took over the Sarries academy and brought through Nick Isiekwe, Maro Itoje, Nick Tompkins, Nathan Earle etc - then when Don went to England to oversee all academies last year, he brought Adam back to Sarries to coach from Newcastle and Mike came back to take up the overall reins again after a spell at Premier Rugby. Its possible that Jonathan may have had a spell at Sarries under Mike quite a while ago for a time, but I dont remember him and I cant find any record of it. He certainly wasnt overseeing bringing through talent at Saracens

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