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Dire Bath versus Saints
Spikey910 (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 21:15
Wow this is ordinary. Two utterly mediocre sides doing nothing very much. Neither created a single try scoring opportunity in the first 35 mins, now there’s been one through an intercept but it’s still rubbish. How on earth did Piers Francis get on the England tour last summer?

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
Buzzboy (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 21:17
Bath going to overtake us in the league! For a day or two anyway....
agree a very poor standard in this game.
Was lucky enough to be at the Rec for Wasps game in Dec. That was class...

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
WaspieKev (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 22:20
Still, even playing like that they gained a big win. Something not right at Bath despite their great DoR IMHO.

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
bg (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 09:25
I can't understand how Bath won by that scoreline.. both teams looked bereft of ideas though. Do Bath have a narrow pitch?

An interesting point to come out of it was from a post week-end top referreees meeting. I'm womdering whether this is EPL refs viewing other nationality ref's taking charge of 6 nations games.

The commentators have been told that ref's will now not allow scrumhalves to move the ball from inside the ruck to the the very back of the ruck with their hands.. continually rolling it around, placing it perfectly, releasing it.. having a quick look, then picking the ball back up then to clear with a kick.

The commentators said though official guidance hadn't been released and weren't sure if clubs had been formally notified.

The jist of the ruling is that the 9 can only use his feet to position the ball. Once his hands are on the ball, then its technically out (Again the commentators were a little fuzzy about what is or isn't allowed, is it about moving and positioning the ball with hands or simply putting hands on the ball?).

The current practise of using hands to move the ball about is as a result of professional players pushing the envelope in terms of what they can get away with and refs turning a blind eye to what they feel is an insignificant indescretion (like feeding the ball straight and down the middle of the tunnel at a scrum).

I've always thought that as soon as the 9 puts hands on the ball in the ruck, the ball is technically "out". This is born out by ref's other judgement of a when forward pre-empts a 9 picking a ball up at the base of a ruck.. times it wrong, tackles the 9 without the ball. Penalty. Which implies if he does have hands on the ball he can be tackled and therefore the ball is out??

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
Mellie (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 10:02
The scrum half can't be tackled until the ball is lifyed off the ground. That's what refs have been saying all season. So rolling it back was legitimate. It cannot be right to alter an interpretation randomly during the season. Just causes confusion.

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
AKWasp (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 10:30
I too was under the impression that it was ‘lifting’ the ball that made it out and that phrase was used by a ref during one of the games last week (can’t remember which)

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
Hucks (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 10:39
Ben Kay wrote a times article a few months ago bemoaning the way that refs weren't actually playing the laws.

One example he used was this - and the way I read that article was that the world rugby lawbook says you can play the 9 as soon he touches the ball with his hands. But refs have all instead played it around the ball coming off the floor - so defenders are being penalised for doing something perfectly legal.

Soon as that's cleared up the better

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
bg (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 12:45
Quote:
Hucks
Ben Kay wrote a times article a few months ago bemoaning the way that refs weren't actually playing the laws.
One example he used was this - and the way I read that article was that the world rugby lawbook says you can play the 9 as soon he touches the ball with his hands. But refs have all instead played it around the ball coming off the floor - so defenders are being penalised for doing something perfectly legal.

Soon as that's cleared up the better

I'm with Ben Kay, the rule was always (going back decades when I played at 9) that when the 9 touches the ball (its the same at the back of the scrum applying to the 8 or 9) its deemed to be out of the ruck/scrum and therefore its in open play, and no offside.

I've never heard of that rule being altered. The fact the refs have been letting this go is another thing.. I suspect commentators have then interpreted that as "when the 9 lifts the ball".

Its the same as forwards being asked to join a ruck at the side to protect the 9 when box kicking. Most of the time they join the ruck by their hands only.. that's not being bound to the ruck (has to be arm/shoulder) so essentially they are off-side and blocking.

Anyway, rant over. Beers in the fridge, nibbles at the ready for later.

 
Re: Dire Bath versus Saints
WiseWasps! (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 13:02
Agree terrible game to watch. The backs for both teams looked like they had never played together.

As for the discussion around the law changes. It has been an itch of mine for years now and I am glad it has been raised. The refs I noticed a long time ago were saying the ball hadn't been lifted there for your offside. I grew up with the understanding as hands on ball is out. When i have questioned this in the past I have been informed that it may likely be to do with the ban on rucking. Previously the 9 could use his foot to get the ball out. Often in the process catch a hand or two that was trying to slow the ball down. With them trying to discourage this I believe it was almost an unofficial nod like with the feeding of the scrum to say you can use your hands instead to get it out and we won't allow players to rush around. For me it is wrong. But right or wrong it needs clarity.


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